Wales v Australia

The Loaded Dog wrote:What about Wyn Jones' dodgy try? He looked significantly short of the line to me. It was a soft 7 points for that penalty try too.
So I'd have to disagree about Joubert favouring the Wallabies as much as some people seem to think.

The Saint wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:What about Wyn Jones' dodgy try? He looked significantly short of the line to me. It was a soft 7 points for that penalty try too.
So I'd have to disagree about Joubert favouring the Wallabies as much as some people seem to think.

A penalty try conceded from the scrum is always soft if you listen to an Australian. I can't tell if AWJ scored either, but Joubert must have been pretty sure to give it.
Joubert overseen two of Wales' test vs Aus (first and third) when we toured there and it was the same story at the breakdown in each of those, though I only think that made a difference in the third test. Nobody in the NH will ever know what he is thinking when it comes to the breakdown. Aus clearly weren't pinged a couple times for holding on, yet he pings us straight after in the Aus 22 and clearly ignored Lydiate or Hibbard's attempts to roll away from the tackle area and pinged us, then there's the ridiculously long advantage also in favour of Aus on more than a single occasion. All of this happened in the latter stages of the match at critical moments, I guess Joubert didn't want to see Wales in the lead.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, so it was quite a flattering scoreline for Wales then. A bit like England's final scoreline but slightly even more so.

The Saint wrote:

Stop whinging about the ref.  I watched the game - he played advantage identically for both sides - long advantages and was meticulous and fair.  I thought a really good reffing performance.  I tell you what = its so predictable that after any Wales loss its always the ref at fault for many of the fans.  get over it!  Aus where the better side and won fairly

The Loaded Dog wrote:Oh don't be so pathetic, Saint. Nobody's anti-Welsh.

How's the new monocle going by the way?

The Saint wrote:The holding on was extremely lenient in Aus' favour as was the advantage. We were better at the breakdown for a change I thought, you need to be twice as good in that area with Joubert in charge. I've always stood by my opinion on him and he proved to me that I was right again. ...............

The Saint wrote:Thanks for the third instalment of the half hour advantage, said Aus to Joubert.

The Saint wrote:........................., I guess Joubert didn't want to see Wales in the lead.

The Saint wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Oh don't be so pathetic, Saint. Nobody's anti-Welsh.

How's the new monocle going by the way?

Maybe you didn't spend the 2013 season on here then. I suppose you don't pay attention to Glasgow/Edinburgh threads either where the ref is talked about on a weekly basis yet when a Welsh poster does it we're all blaming the ref! Go to the England/NZ thread and you have English fans doing the same with regards to Owens, even there you have TJ in the midst of it trying be to know-it-all as per , yet when I do it over on this thread all of a sudden it's "WELSH FANS ARE AWLAYS BLAMING THE REF"... Strange state of affairs isn't it?

Haha, Ive had the same monocle for years. How's your eye patch captain?

TJ wrote:Is that me getting accused of being anti welsh 'cos I can't stand the constant whinging about the ref from some fans after a defeat.

Its so predictable and funny.  As predictable as the fact that and hint of any criticism of anything slightly near Wales gets you labelled antu welsh by the same "fans"

Now I usually have the saint block 'cos his daftness irritates too much but I ask you this Saint - does Wales ever get beaten when its not the refs fault?

TJ wrote:Is that me getting accused of being anti welsh 'cos I can't stand the constant whinging about the ref from some fans after a defeat.

TJ wrote: I tell you what = its so predictable that after any Wales loss its always the ref at fault for many of the fans.  get over it! 

bedfordwelsh wrote:Lik a woman is genetically built to moan at us men then us fans are genetically built to complain about refs.  I think Owens has come in for some criticism after yesterdays game as well hasn't he?

GunsGerms wrote:Cant help thinking Gatland is very over rated at this point. If he was any good Wales would have come up with a game plan to beat Australia. Trouble is he seems unwilling to adapt at all. Wales are now like Ireland under Kidney, too predictable.

GunsGerms wrote:I admit i only saw highlights however, I fail to understand why Welsh fans have not lost patience with a manager who has failed so badly v Australia in particular. It isnt good enough. Wales should be better than that IMO.

GunsGerms wrote:I admit i only saw highlights however, I fail to understand why Welsh fans have not lost patience with a manager who has failed so badly v Australia in particular. It isnt good enough. Wales should be better than that IMO.

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's started to adapt a little now James in for Jenkins Webb for Phillips etc but is it to late now?  I have said for sometime that his backrow staff (Howley in particular) are not good enough.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's started to adapt a little now James in for Jenkins Webb for Phillips etc but is it to late now?  I have said for sometime that his backrow staff (Howley in particular) are not good enough.

Mate,

I remember you said that prior to Howley coaching Wales to a consecutive grand slam.

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, so it was quite a flattering scoreline for Wales then. A bit like England's final scoreline but slightly even more so.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He's started to adapt a little now James in for Jenkins Webb for Phillips etc but is it to late now?  I have said for sometime that his backrow staff (Howley in particular) are not good enough.

Mate,

I remember you said that prior to Howley coaching Wales to a consecutive grand slam.

I just watched the game, to be honest I thought Wales looked rusty, sure to improve as the weeks pass. This was the first game of the season, there was a ridiculously high error count. Wales will get stuffed by the ABs and Boks if we don't cut that out.

Halfbacks looked good, bar the interception. We suffered loosing Biggar and Halfpenny, both goal kickers would give the team a huge amount of confidence.

Glad to see, despite the interviews that portrayed confidence in progress, that all the coaches looked very unhappy with the game. I imagine the players lives will get very tough in training over the next two weeks.

Icu wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, so it was quite a flattering scoreline for Wales then. A bit like England's final scoreline but slightly even more so.

Agree. Should have been a 12 point margin, minimum. The 3rd Welsh try was well short of the line. If the ref had gone to the TMO it would've been disallowed. I'm betting it wasn't replayed over and over on the big screens as Barrett's (non) try was at Twickenham which resulted in the ref reversing the original decision. The penalty try was 50/50 too. Good to know that we still can win comfortably even when having a very average game. I expect the Wallabies to improve significantly under the coaching of Michael Chieka.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Icu wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, so it was quite a flattering scoreline for Wales then. A bit like England's final scoreline but slightly even more so.

Agree. Should have been a 12 point margin, minimum. The 3rd Welsh try was well short of the line. If the ref had gone to the TMO it would've been disallowed. I'm betting it wasn't replayed over and over on the big screens as Barrett's (non) try was at Twickenham which resulted in the ref reversing the original decision. The penalty try was 50/50 too. Good to know that we still can win comfortably even when having a very average game. I expect the Wallabies to improve significantly under the coaching of Michael Chieka.

You have not put 12+ on Wales for over 6 years and Although you may win I doubt if you put that much on us for a wee while yet.  It's good to know Wales can still remain close when playing a team with several games under their belt.  Wales must kick themselves seeing as Argentina did the Aussies over but injuries hit us again.  

Popular wisdom says Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he said it, Wales coach Warren Gatland was not listening.

Wales and Australia will join England in a genuine group of death in next September's World Cup and the importance of these November Tests is all in the eye of the coaches.

Gatland, with seven years under his belt, is currently the longest serving coach of a top-tier nation, whereas his Wallabies counterpart Michael Cheika has had just three weeks in the job. If the post-match comments of the pair are any guide there is a similar gulf in their thinking.

Gatland is convinced Wales can improve significantly ahead of next year's tournament, while the Wallabies cannot. Eclipsing Australia is merely a matter of progression. Wales are using the November Tests as a glorified training camp, flogging the players in practice with a sole focus on getting out of the group of death next September. Results in between can be buggered.

But there is a colder truth Gatland needs to embrace. Wales in Cardiff were physical with big forwards and giant backs hammering the breakdown and gainline. They defended strongly and played well, yet lost by a small margin. It's a pattern that has repeated itself against the Wallabies in their past 10 clashes. Since 2012, Kurtley Beale, Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris and now Bernard Foley have snatched victory from the Welsh in the final minutes. Other than the potential for a welcome serving of good luck, why will Twickenham be different next year?

Wales' long build up has put the spotlight on the one aspect they must improve: mental strength. While a positive World Cup outcome remains their overwhelming target, Wales risk entering the tournament without the results to boost their belief they can achieve it.

Cheika in contrast is talking a much shorter game, rightfully believing there was very little in the match that could point to future fortunes. His tenure at the Waratahs has shown an unwavering commitment that the right philosophy, vigorously pursued, will ultimately deliver the winning result. Progress is not assumed, it's earned. The Waratahs showed a capacity to learn from mistakes and the Wallabies will now have to do the same.

The scrum for most of the match was a perfect model of parity, but Gethin Jenkins's arrival led to a goal-line siege that lasted four minutes and cost the Wallabies seven points. Under Cheika, the scrum problem is to be embraced, enjoyed, but not excused. Referees are hoodwinked into giving scrum penalties against the Wallabies, but the absolute truth is far more damning. Dominant scrums are not easily manipulated. Books can only be cooked for so long before the truth is discovered.

In defence, the Wallabies missed too many tackles and had more misreads than an intelligence dossier. The effort was there, though. The defensive line speed was more sprinter than pedestrian, but its shape resembled a wave rolling up the shore. Too many jagged lines were left for Wales to exploit.

With ball in hand, Cheika's philosophy has some subtle differences from his predecessor that needs to be perfected. He has plenty of willing runners but needs more pop passes and line bending charges from his forwards to open the game up for Foley's orchestrated flatline attack.

There are World Cup lessons to be learned from Cardiff. The coach who accurately defines where his team is at while at the same time imagining where they can truly be, will have the advantage. Cheika's track record and his freshness to the role puts him in the box seat.

maestegmafia wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Icu wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:Yeah, so it was quite a flattering scoreline for Wales then. A bit like England's final scoreline but slightly even more so.

Agree. Should have been a 12 point margin, minimum. The 3rd Welsh try was well short of the line. If the ref had gone to the TMO it would've been disallowed. I'm betting it wasn't replayed over and over on the big screens as Barrett's (non) try was at Twickenham which resulted in the ref reversing the original decision. The penalty try was 50/50 too. Good to know that we still can win comfortably even when having a very average game. I expect the Wallabies to improve significantly under the coaching of Michael Chieka.

You have not put 12+ on Wales for over 6 years and Although you may win I doubt if you put that much on us for a wee while yet.  It's good to know Wales can still remain close when playing a team with several games under their belt.  Wales must kick themselves seeing as Argentina did the Aussies over but injuries hit us again.  

Flattering scoreline...?

Four tries to three and one of the Aussies tries was an interception.

George Carlin wrote:If anyone wants an Aussie view on Gatland, these are the thoughts of Stephen Samuelson in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Popular wisdom says Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he said it, Wales coach Warren Gatland was not listening.

Wales and Australia will join England in a genuine group of death in next September's World Cup and the importance of these November Tests is all in the eye of the coaches.

Gatland, with seven years under his belt, is currently the longest serving coach of a top-tier nation, whereas his Wallabies counterpart Michael Cheika has had just three weeks in the job. If the post-match comments of the pair are any guide there is a similar gulf in their thinking.

Gatland is convinced Wales can improve significantly ahead of next year's tournament, while the Wallabies cannot. Eclipsing Australia is merely a matter of progression. Wales are using the November Tests as a glorified training camp, flogging the players in practice with a sole focus on getting out of the group of death next September. Results in between can be buggered.

But there is a colder truth Gatland needs to embrace. Wales in Cardiff were physical with big forwards and giant backs hammering the breakdown and gainline. They defended strongly and played well, yet lost by a small margin. It's a pattern that has repeated itself against the Wallabies in their past 10 clashes. Since 2012, Kurtley Beale, Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris and now Bernard Foley have snatched victory from the Welsh in the final minutes. Other than the potential for a welcome serving of good luck, why will Twickenham be different next year?

Wales' long build up has put the spotlight on the one aspect they must improve: mental strength. While a positive World Cup outcome remains their overwhelming target, Wales risk entering the tournament without the results to boost their belief they can achieve it.

Cheika in contrast is talking a much shorter game, rightfully believing there was very little in the match that could point to future fortunes. His tenure at the Waratahs has shown an unwavering commitment that the right philosophy, vigorously pursued, will ultimately deliver the winning result. Progress is not assumed, it's earned. The Waratahs showed a capacity to learn from mistakes and the Wallabies will now have to do the same.

The scrum for most of the match was a perfect model of parity, but Gethin Jenkins's arrival led to a goal-line siege that lasted four minutes and cost the Wallabies seven points. Under Cheika, the scrum problem is to be embraced, enjoyed, but not excused. Referees are hoodwinked into giving scrum penalties against the Wallabies, but the absolute truth is far more damning. Dominant scrums are not easily manipulated. Books can only be cooked for so long before the truth is discovered.

In defence, the Wallabies missed too many tackles and had more misreads than an intelligence dossier. The effort was there, though. The defensive line speed was more sprinter than pedestrian, but its shape resembled a wave rolling up the shore. Too many jagged lines were left for Wales to exploit.

With ball in hand, Cheika's philosophy has some subtle differences from his predecessor that needs to be perfected. He has plenty of willing runners but needs more pop passes and line bending charges from his forwards to open the game up for Foley's orchestrated flatline attack.

There are World Cup lessons to be learned from Cardiff. The coach who accurately defines where his team is at while at the same time imagining where they can truly be, will have the advantage. Cheika's track record and his freshness to the role puts him in the box seat.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

George Carlin wrote:If anyone wants an Aussie view on Gatland, these are the thoughts of Stephen Samuelson in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Popular wisdom says Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If he said it, Wales coach Warren Gatland was not listening.

Wales and Australia will join England in a genuine group of death in next September's World Cup and the importance of these November Tests is all in the eye of the coaches.

Gatland, with seven years under his belt, is currently the longest serving coach of a top-tier nation, whereas his Wallabies counterpart Michael Cheika has had just three weeks in the job. If the post-match comments of the pair are any guide there is a similar gulf in their thinking.

Gatland is convinced Wales can improve significantly ahead of next year's tournament, while the Wallabies cannot. Eclipsing Australia is merely a matter of progression. Wales are using the November Tests as a glorified training camp, flogging the players in practice with a sole focus on getting out of the group of death next September. Results in between can be buggered.

But there is a colder truth Gatland needs to embrace. Wales in Cardiff were physical with big forwards and giant backs hammering the breakdown and gainline. They defended strongly and played well, yet lost by a small margin. It's a pattern that has repeated itself against the Wallabies in their past 10 clashes. Since 2012, Kurtley Beale, Berrick Barnes, Mike Harris and now Bernard Foley have snatched victory from the Welsh in the final minutes. Other than the potential for a welcome serving of good luck, why will Twickenham be different next year?

Wales' long build up has put the spotlight on the one aspect they must improve: mental strength. While a positive World Cup outcome remains their overwhelming target, Wales risk entering the tournament without the results to boost their belief they can achieve it.

Cheika in contrast is talking a much shorter game, rightfully believing there was very little in the match that could point to future fortunes. His tenure at the Waratahs has shown an unwavering commitment that the right philosophy, vigorously pursued, will ultimately deliver the winning result. Progress is not assumed, it's earned. The Waratahs showed a capacity to learn from mistakes and the Wallabies will now have to do the same.

The scrum for most of the match was a perfect model of parity, but Gethin Jenkins's arrival led to a goal-line siege that lasted four minutes and cost the Wallabies seven points. Under Cheika, the scrum problem is to be embraced, enjoyed, but not excused. Referees are hoodwinked into giving scrum penalties against the Wallabies, but the absolute truth is far more damning. Dominant scrums are not easily manipulated. Books can only be cooked for so long before the truth is discovered.

In defence, the Wallabies missed too many tackles and had more misreads than an intelligence dossier. The effort was there, though. The defensive line speed was more sprinter than pedestrian, but its shape resembled a wave rolling up the shore. Too many jagged lines were left for Wales to exploit.

With ball in hand, Cheika's philosophy has some subtle differences from his predecessor that needs to be perfected. He has plenty of willing runners but needs more pop passes and line bending charges from his forwards to open the game up for Foley's orchestrated flatline attack.

There are World Cup lessons to be learned from Cardiff. The coach who accurately defines where his team is at while at the same time imagining where they can truly be, will have the advantage. Cheika's track record and his freshness to the role puts him in the box seat.

Yes I don't think many people were fooled by Gats bullish comments after the game. If I had to plump which team can improve significantly more than the other of course it would be Australia who were missing a raft of players compared to one first choice centre.

mckay1402 wrote:Did anybody else notice two australians pick a player up and drop him?  Not sure who it was but I think it was from a lineout.  Could be a citing

wrfc1980 wrote: The aussies had the following injured players who are all first choicers -
Stephen Moore, Scott Fardy, Scott Higginbotham David Pocock

Will Genie has been injured and is working his way back to fitness hence only a sub.

Kurtley Beale not selected due to discipline but will be back for the wqorld cup.

As you can see maes the Aussies will only get better whilst Wales continue to stagnate as they have done for the last couple of year. Its time Wale sfaced facts, they are not as good as nor have ever been good as the SH teams.

wrfc1980 wrote: The aussies had the following injured players who are all first choicers -
Stephen Moore, Scott Fardy, Scott Higginbotham David Pocock

Will Genie has been injured and is working his way back to fitness hence only a sub.

Kurtley Beale not selected due to discipline but will be back for the wqorld cup.

As you can see maes the Aussies will only get better whilst Wales continue to stagnate as they have done for the last couple of year. Its time Wale sfaced facts, they are not as good as nor have ever been good as the SH teams.