We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

[Guest]

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Dirty, scheming, diving sh!thouse.

[mystiroakey]

When did owen start getting injured?

[hampo17]

When he was at Newcastle.

[mystiroakey]

so that was after Madrid?

he banged in almost 1 in 2 at Newcastle still. The Spanish loved Raul even though i doubt there was much between owen and him quality wise.. very similar players i suppose.. great poachers.

I very much doubt he went to Madrid with the intention of being used as a sub.. I am sure he thought he would be going to take rauls spot..

[Stella]

He did, no doubting that Stella but the big question a player should be asking is "am I going to play?" Madrid had Raul and Ronaldo upfront at the time and Owen didn't really stand a chance of getting in front of those two.

He scored more than Raul during his only season.

[super_realist]

Yeah, Owen at least tried and did have good stats for Madrid , although he along with Shearer wasted far too much of their careers at Newcastle.

Gerrard should have looked at the example of Steve McManaman or ever Henrik Larsson, both spent long times at one club but left at the right time to further their careers and more crucially play for bigger teams and win competitions.

[hampo17]

Probably did mate, but making 15 starts in 41 appearances is not good enough. Sort of strikes through what super realist is trying to say, it's all well and good saying players should move to X, Y and Z but if they don't get played what's the point? I know me personally I'd rather play every week than warm the bench.

[Stella]

Yeah, Owen at least tried and did have good stats for Madrid , although he along with Shearer wasted far too much of their careers at Newcastle.

Gerrard should have looked at the example of Steve McManaman or ever Henrik Larsson, both spent long times at one club but left at the right time to further their careers and more crucially play for bigger teams and win competitions.

From memory, none of the top teams wanted him when he came back.

[Stella]

Probably did mate, but making 15 starts in 41 appearances is not good enough. Sort of strikes through what super realist is trying to say, it's all well and good saying players should move to X, Y and Z but if they don't get played what's the point? I know me personally I'd rather play every week than warm the bench.

Yes, better to play than not, but like Mystr mentioned, he may well have thought he could get in the team. He didn't, so came back. By then he wasn't quite as sharp. Wasted talent, mainly through injuries.

[hampo17]

Injuries happened after Madrid and as Stella says nobody wanted to pay what Madrid wanted for him except Newcastle, he would have been better staying at Liverpool, even more so when you consider what happened that season.

[Ent]

He won the title with United

Injuries blighted his career, not a fair comparison.

[Hero]

Should Rooney have kept kissing the badge and stayed at his boyhood club all his years?

[mystiroakey]

hampo. Ronaldo went to Madrid way after Owen had left.

[super_realist]

Always thought Owen's career was defined by "that goal" and dined out on it rather too long.
I give Owen credit for not resting on his laurels and at least having the balls to try a move to a big team.

The money for these guys is where their ambition is diminished by the £ sign. Yes, Newcastle might have been the only ones to pay him what he wanted, but if you really wanted to be the best, would you not take a cut in salary to be somewhere better than Newcastle? I mean, surely there isn't much difference to these guys if they are paid £3m a year instead of 4 when you are already a multi millionaire

[Hero]

The original Ronaldo rather than CR7

[mystiroakey]

Oh right- forgot about him!!

[hampo17]

Keep up mysti

[mystiroakey]

Fat ronaldo!

[hampo17]

It wasn't what he wanted Realist, it's what Madrid wanted for him.

[Stella]

Fat ronaldo!

Better Ronaldo.

[Guest]

If I remember correctly Man Utd were looking at Owen in 2005 but weren't prepared to pay him the stupid money that Newcastle were willing to pay.

I remember Ferguson being very coy about it at the time.

[Ent]

Fat ronaldo!

Better Ronaldo.

Behave.

[Hero]

That's always been the thought due partly to his WC goal tally but I think Cristiano has surpassed the original now.

[super_realist]

It wasn't what he wanted Realist, it's what Madrid wanted for him.

Ah, see what you mean, still stayed at Newcastle far too long.

[Stella]

That's always been the thought due partly to his WC goal tally but I think Cristiano has surpassed the original now.

You might be right. I have fond memories of the Brazilian. Both great players.

[hampo17]

That was partially down to injuries though realist, Owens career was ruined by injuries not through his own choices.

[Liam]

Ronaldo (brazilian) best striker i've seen in my lifetime. Could make an argument he played at a time where defences were a great deal better than they are atm. But can I honestly say he's better than Cristiano? i'd struggle tbh.

[Hero]

All are obviously in context of their peers and generation but could Cristiano be considered the most complete footballer of all time yet?
Barring a WC win (which he'll never get) as an individual he pretty much ticks every box.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Should Rooney have kept kissing the badge and stayed at his boyhood club all his years?

If he was happier, to some extent I would have no issue, but theres a different ambition at the clubs. When Liverpool were lower down the table it was big news, but they have had false dawns on getting back up there. You'd have to say Di Maria has shown a complete lack of ambition by signing for Manchester United. Gerrard has won the Champions League, trebles and played in huge matches whilst being able to go on and captain his country. Twice 2nd in the league? Turning down Chelsea was wise. Have Barcelona or Madrid ever shown serious interest? Doubt he'd have been what Barca wanted.

[Hero]

Oh so if the club has ambition it's okay to stay with them for your career but fine to sell your soul otherwise.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If the club has no ambition to match your level then theres a limit to what you can achieve. But Liverpool arent Everton. They are far better and bigger.

[Hero]

So it was all fine for Frank to leave West Ham for Chelsea?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Yeah, completely. I have no problem with him going, it was the actions after and his attitude at the club at times

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The fact is, the club could have built around what we had but Brown had no ambition to keep them and build, let alone any ambition to go up the table

[guildfordbat]

No one is saying he hasn't had a decent career, but has he shown as much ambition and won as much as his much touted talent should have?
Unquestionably no, but it isn't just Gerrard, it's very much the British mentality, you could say the same for scores of British players who haven't  achieved what they should have in the game.

Perhaps Gerrard was scared of a move overseas by the comment attributed to Ian Rush about his time with Juventus - ''It was like living in a foreign country''.

[Fernando]

No one is saying he hasn't had a decent career, but has he shown as much ambition and won as much as his much touted talent should have?
Unquestionably no, but it isn't just Gerrard, it's very much the British mentality, you could say the same for scores of British players who haven't  achieved what they should have in the game.

Perhaps Gerrard was scared of a move overseas by the comment attributed to Ian Rush about his time with Juventus - ''It was like living in a foreign country''.

Well he said he isn't going to join a direct rival of Liverpool. So that's pretty much any foreign Champions League side.... So still time yet

[Dolphin Ziggler]

No one is saying he hasn't had a decent career, but has he shown as much ambition and won as much as his much touted talent should have?
Unquestionably no, but it isn't just Gerrard, it's very much the British mentality, you could say the same for scores of British players who haven't  achieved what they should have in the game.

Perhaps Gerrard was scared of a move overseas by the comment attributed to Ian Rush about his time with Juventus - ''It was like living in a foreign country''.

Well he said he isn't going to join a direct rival of Liverpool. So that's pretty much any foreign Champions League side.... So still time yet

Olly wants his joke back

[Fernando]

No one is saying he hasn't had a decent career, but has he shown as much ambition and won as much as his much touted talent should have?
Unquestionably no, but it isn't just Gerrard, it's very much the British mentality, you could say the same for scores of British players who haven't  achieved what they should have in the game.

Perhaps Gerrard was scared of a move overseas by the comment attributed to Ian Rush about his time with Juventus - ''It was like living in a foreign country''.

Well he said he isn't going to join a direct rival of Liverpool. So that's pretty much any foreign Champions League side.... So still time yet

Olly wants his joke back

Damn he got there 1st. I was gunna read back but then saw Hero talking about Cristiano Ronaldo and figured it wasn't worth it.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ahh yes, the laughable assumption that Ronaldo is the most complete footballer ever.

[Crimey]

I am absolutely gutted that Gerrard is leaving, I was sure he would finish his career at Liverpool but I do think last season has broken him. He didn't look right at the World Cup, doesn't look right this season and I think more than age it's the fact that he knows he missed the opportunity and he knows that it came down to that slip. As much as there many jokes about it, there haven't been many more cruel things to happen in football.

I don't think he lacked ambition never leaving, I think he definitely did love Liverpool and sometimes being moderately successful at the club you love is better than being extremely successful at many clubs. I also think hindsight makes you forget that 01/02 Liverpool came second, 08/09 second again and in between those years also were one of the best teams in Europe consistently challenging for the title, by the time 11/12 came around the offers were drying up a little to compete at a very high level. I know Bayern Munich came in and wanted him before the 13/14 season reportedly but in the end it very nearly came off sticking around. I think had Liverpool got into the knockouts of the Champions League, he might not have left. This season by all accounts looks like it is going the same way as the last six years so totally understand why he might be completely dejected by this.

I do think in the future he will regret leaving, especially if he goes to the MLS. If he ends up at say a Munich or a Madrid which I think is really unlikely and wins a league title or two not starting every game then maybe he won't be as upset but I think if he goes to the MLS he'll think he could have ended his career a one-club man and I certainly think leaving will tarnish that a bit. He doesn't need to chase the money in MLS and I don't think he's a big enough celebrity name to transform the MLS brand that Beckham did or that even Lampard could. I think he's very respected in football circles and for me one of the best Liverpool and English players of all time, but he's not really a celebrity.

[kingraf]

Personally I still don't understand di Maria leaving to Utd. Of course the money made sense for us, but Utd are probably only gonna start challenging for serious silverware in two seasons. Seemed a waste of his prime years, although I suppose the money offered was astronomical (about five times his Madrid wages).

As for Gerrard, I guess he was never gonna age gracefully. He lacked Scholes'/Alonso's/Pirlo's ability to control a match like a quarterback (probably wasn't in a team set up to help in that regard). Also lacked Lampard's ability to have a nothing match and have a matchwinning impact.

[super_realist]

Crimey, why would Munich or Madrid want someone like Gerrard who is no longer consistently good enough for Liverpool, a significantly lesser club?

It's only going to be an MLS club coming in for him, because like his early career where he couldn't play all the time, his final years are going to be like that too, well suited to the MLS retirement home.

[kingraf]

Munich might sign Gerrard. At this stage of his career, he lacks the passing range, and rabid intensity to play in a Guardiola team. Even Alonso, the playmaker makes crazy yardage in that team. Still, Guardiola has shown that if he likes a player age isn't really a factor. Don't know if he liked Gerrard enough, mind. Too old, ugly, and cheap for Madrid. Need to fill at least 2/3 to sign up. Serie A could be a reality. I mean, Totti is still bossing there.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I have no problem with Gerrard staying at Liverpool until his relative old age, he was playing for his boyhood club and was revered by the fans beyond what his ability deserved in my opinion. English players rarely go abroad during their peak years unless they're forced out of the club like Beckham and Owen. Stevie Mac is an exception to the rule but he became the footballing equivalent of a domestique for Madrid.

Once moving abroad is out the question there's only been one club in the past ten years who would have improved his trophy cabinet drastically and that was never going to happen. There's no guarantee of success moving anyway, i'm sure when Beckham joined Madrid he was expecting more than a solitary La Liga to show for it.

The superlatives for him thus far have been grossly over the top, yes he's a Liverpool legend but I can't imagine he'll ever be remembered in the same breath as Dalglish, Souness or Rush. Those three were the bedrock of Liverpools dominance and that is an important point to consider, they all pushed the club to incomparable heights domestically and in Europe, it's telling that they aren't remembered for one particular match.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Citeh get overrun at midfield regardless. At least Lampard offers them an offensive threat.....

[mystiroakey]

Munich might sign Gerrard. At this stage of his career, he lacks the passing range, and rabid intensity to play in a Guardiola team. Even Alonso, the playmaker makes crazy yardage in that team. Still, Guardiola has shown that if he likes a player age isn't really a factor. Don't know if he liked Gerrard enough, mind. Too old, ugly, and cheap for Madrid. Need to fill at least 2/3 to sign up. Serie A could be a reality. I mean, Totti is still bossing there.

yeah off course he could go to any league.

To a top team of any legaue? = no

but why would he want to. If you were a footballer at that age that has done so much what would you rather?

I would go MLS without any hesitation.

ok money

league where you can boss it and be a semi legend without being ubber fit

great lifestyle

Its a no brainer

[CFCNick]

Munich might sign Gerrard. At this stage of his career, he lacks the passing range, and rabid intensity to play in a Guardiola team. Even Alonso, the playmaker makes crazy yardage in that team. Still, Guardiola has shown that if he likes a player age isn't really a factor. Don't know if he liked Gerrard enough, mind. Too old, ugly, and cheap for Madrid. Need to fill at least 2/3 to sign up. Serie A could be a reality. I mean, Totti is still bossing there.

yeah off course he could go to any league.

To a top team of any legaue? = no

but why would he want to. If you were a footballer at that age that has done so much what would you rather?

I would go MLS without any hesitation.

ok money

league where you can boss it and be a semi legend without being ubber fit

great lifestyle

Its a no brainer

Travelling is horrendous. Like having an away game in the Champions League every week.

[kingraf]

Righto then Trussy, you think you've lost two goal advantages three times this season because your babysitters in midfield aren't turnstiles?

[kwinigolfer]

Hammersmith,
Would have thought Shankly's teams were the "bedrock of Liverpool's dominance" - those who came later built upon the foundations that the great teams of the 60's and 70's laid down.
Gerrard for me will go down as a superb leader, a great "League" footballer and club servant, who did all the ordinary things at an extraordinarily high level, with great energy and fortitude. But not a genius as very few have been, and which Dalglish certainly was.  

Gerrard's overall mediocre record for England will also be considered when measuring his "greatness", Lampard's too of course.


CFCNick: The distances of MLS travel may be extreme, but the frequency of games is much more relaxed and those trips can be taken in luxury.

[TRUSSMAN66]

I think we are joint top of the league which is no bad feat for a team that apparently gets overrun in midfield all the time !!

[Guest]

The superlatives for him thus far have been grossly over the top, yes he's a Liverpool legend but I can't imagine he'll ever be remembered in the same breath as Dalglish, Souness or Rush. Those three were the bedrock of Liverpools dominance and that is an important point to consider, they all pushed the club to incomparable heights domestically and in Europe, it's telling that they aren't remembered for one particular match.

I've always felt that he'd have needed multiple League Championships to have even been spoken in the same breath as Dalglish, who for me is the best player to don the red shirt of Liverpool by a million miles.

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