2015 250-500 Tournaments Thread

[temporary21]

First topic message reminder :

A thread intended for discussion of the smaller tournaments of the year. First up, its Doha.

[summerblues]

Pretty embarrassing for Andy - not only did he lose but he got destroyed.

Coric has now beaten Rafa and Andy.  If he manages to beat Roger tomorrow and Nole in the final, we will have completed the set.

[HM Murdock]

Interesting comments from Djokovic about Coric:

"I practised with him a lot in the last two, three months. I try to help him because I see, in a way, myself through him. I’ve never felt that way when I practise with somebody as I felt with him. It’s like playing myself."

[It Must Be Love]

I think we have to be a bit careful with over-hyping Coric here too early. I see Federer beating him very comfortably today, I don't even see Coric winning 8 games.

OK credit to Coric for his big wins so far, but he beat Nadal with appendicitis, and 'I'm on my menstrual post-AO again' Murray.
I watched him in the Australian Open, he lost to Chardy pretty easily, in 4 sets. So far this tournament he's already lost once, and nearly lost to Baghdatis if not for his cramps at 4-4 in deciding set tiebreak.

[HM Murdock]

IMBL, yes, you're right, it's early days yet.

But he seems to have the temperament and the game that, in a couple of years (when he'll still only be 20), he could be very good player.

I see potential in him that I didn't see in other young players like Young, Harrison, even Tomic.

[Jahu]

I think Fed prefers Djoko in the final, not Berdy.

So go Djoko go

[Haddie-nuff]

What I see in Coric which impresses me as much as his tennis is his self belief. He oozes confidence..and his mental ability to stay in the moment.Though for once I agree with IMBL's comments it is easy to over hype this teenager he has a way to go but fingers crossed he is one to watch!!!

[Belovedluckyboy]

Too early to pronounce Coric as the next big thing. I remember during 2010/2011 when the likes of Harrison, Tomic, Dimi and Raonic made their appearances in the ATP main tour, many people were all excited over them. Harrison at that time looked impressive, especially at the USO vs Ljuby. He had a good all round game, could S&V and not afraid to approach the net. He beat Raonic at IW in 2011 and then was beaten in the next round by Fed. Tomic too was impressive vs Cilic at AO in 2010. They seemed to have faded away now, no longer that promising.

Coric beat an out of sorts Murray and an appendicitis affected Rafa, I think if Rafa and Murray played better, Coric would be beaten. One thing about Coric, he relied a lot on his legs, something I feel would do him harm in future. He was playing too far behind the baseline, not unlike Thiem, Dimi and he's more like Rafa than Novak. I watched Novak's matches of his earlier days, Novak was already standing close to the baseline back then. Coric, like Dimi and Thiem, seemed to play more clay court style tennis (they may be better on clay than on the HCS, I feel). Coric would run out of steam playing this way,he's no Rafa and no Murray.

[Belovedluckyboy]

I still like Nishikori even though he's no longer that young. He's simply aggressive and takes the ball early, a better version of Davy, and he rarely plays far behind the baseline. I also like Thiem and Harrison, and Harrison has now reached the SF in Acapulco, well done to him.

I think we have to give the likes of Kyrgios, Coric, Zverev some more time, I don't think we are seeing any teenage slam winner anytime soon. This year marks the tenth anniversary since the last teenager won a slam, ie Rafa at the FO in 2005. I don't think we're seeing a teenage slam winner this year.

[Born Slippy]

Coric versus Fed could be interesting today. Having seen the highlights of his match yesterday, he looks the type of player who could cause Roger real problems with his movement and solidity.

As for Murray, its bizarre how bad he played in his losses in Rotterdam and Dubai. I expect him to be far sharper in the DC and the two Masters events. Frustrating for us fans, but he does still appear to be adopting an attitude that anything below a slam isn't really worth the effort.

[LuvSports!]

Feds 6-2 4-1 up atm BS.

[Jahu]

Come on Fed, let him to TB on this second set.

[Jahu]

Coric versus Fed could be interesting today. Having seen the highlights of his match yesterday, he looks the type of player who could cause Roger real problems with his movement and solidity.

..or NOT

[Jahu]

5:1, Fed to serve for the match.

What a let down of a match, Coric still dreaming about yesterdays win against Andy.

[Jahu]

Fed wins, with a couple of taps on the back of Coric and a few words at the Net, not like Andy who barely gave him the hand yesterday, not even a couple of good words to the teen boy, sad little git.

[Silver]

Pretty harsh lesson for Coric. The first set was much more competitive than the scoreline suggests, but it got away from him a bit after he went 3-0 down in the second.

Honestly I was pretty impressed with him. He was willing to go toe to toe with Federer, and launched some serious forehands - his depth was very good, even if he didn't use the angles that well. Kind of an unusual match in that sense as Fed seemed content to just rally down the middle a lot of the time too. Coric was fine in the standard rallies, but didn't really know what to do whenever Federer rushed to the net or generally tried something unusual; that'll come with experience, hopefully.

It was good to see him trying to gear himself up throughout the match too, he clearly has self-belief. The main problem was that he seemed to try and hit through Federer too much, rather than making him run and try to create angles - hence the abysmal winner count (3, vs 22 unforced). He's got the game and mentality to be a top 10 player in the future though, hopefully. Despite the score, he was competitive for a lot of the match against a player who loves this tournament.

Federer played a solid, professional match. Didn't give much away, never really hit top gear, but served and returned well. Good BP conversion too, for once. He'll need to step it up for Novak though, especially on the forehand side. The flat, inside-out FH did the damage in Shanghai so he'd better get practicing on those!

Well thankfully (though wouldn't have said that at the time) I missed the Murray match as was at A and E.

Everything okay?

[Silver]

Also, Nish will take #3 off Murray if he wins today, while the latter would fall to #5.

Top 3 would be mighty impressive, even if short-lived!

[CaledonianCraig]

Well thankfully (though wouldn't have said that at the time) I missed the Murray match as was at A and E.

Everything okay?

Thanks for asking - got checked out for blood clot but all clear.

[Guest]

Federer has too much variety for the good players on the tour.

Even today, only outstanding retrievers or massive hitters (which of course he used to have for breakfast when his legs were still explosive) stand a chance.

Coric doesn't fall into either category - yet.

Anyway, Federer just adding more icing to the cake.

Whilst rivals 5-6 years younger are getting bounced, he rolls on - the maestro, the greatest most varied player ever.



emancipator

[Belovedluckyboy]

If Rafa wins at BA he will be no.3. Nishikori can only add max 410 points, to his 5205, not the full 500 points if he wins, as he has to replace one event that has 90 points. Murray will be no.4 should Nishi lost in the SF.

[Haddie-nuff]

Careful em your sounding more like a fan girl than a fan girl
Yuk!!! BB will be here cheer leading and waiving HIS POM POMs any minute now :-)

[Silver]

If Rafa wins at BA he will be no.3.  Nishikori can only add max 410 points, to his 5205, not the full 500 points if he wins, as he has to replace one event that has 90 points.  Murray will be no.4 should Nishi lost in the SF.

True, nice catch. Looks like it'll likely be Rafa - Kei - Andy then, barring another unthinkable clay upset.

Edit: Novak obliterating Tomas, as expected. I wouldn't be surprised if Berdych never wins another set against him. The matchup is just all wrong for him (particularly regarding the serve), and mentally he doesn't seem to believe he can win. Because of that, unfortunately it's hard to read into Djok's form, other than 'very good'.

[Belovedluckyboy]

We really need Delpo and Rafa back to their best. Other than the top two players, the rest of the field is really a joke! (maybe I'll exclude Kei from the rest of the field). The no.7 player in the world getting bageled so frequently by the no.1 player? It's as good as skipping all the other matches and just let the top two players play each other in the final. Berdych is scared of Novak, just like Tsonga is, poor guys. It's not unlike Fed's peers being scared of him, or opponents scared of Rafa on clay.

[Guest]

Interesting from Coric:

Coric, who had beaten Andy Murray in the quarter-finals, said, "He was just way too good for me. I was feeling so rushed. I didn't have any time to play my game plan. I was just trying to hold in the rally as long as I could."

How many times have we heard that over the years from players playing against Federer?

And that's one of the things that makes him so special. He takes the ball so early and makes players feel rushed.

[Belovedluckyboy]

Oh, and what happened to Murray? I was hoping to see a Murray/Fed SF here and Murray leveling their H2H, but Murray didn't put up consistently good showing match after match, I'm a bit peed with him.

[Belovedluckyboy]

....but Fed couldn't rush certain players. Rafa/Novak/Murray and Simon won't be rushed by Fed. This Coric, he stands so far behind the baseline to play, and doesn't have the varieities to change things up, he's just retrieving and retrieving, no big weapon to hurt Fed. At least Simon could hit so flatly with exquisite timing that could give Fed problems, or Rafa with his incredible topspin and speed, Novak and Murray with their incredible returns. Coric has none of those, not even a big serve, or the ability to take the ball early like Nishikori, he still has plenty to learn before becoming a top player.

[It Must Be Love]

....but Fed couldn't rush certain players.  Rafa/Novak/Murray and Simon won't be rushed by Fed.  This Coric, he stands so far behind the baseline to play, and doesn't have the varieities to change things up, he's just retrieving and retrieving, no big weapon to hurt Fed.  At least Simon could hit so flatly with exquisite timing that could give Fed problems, or Rafa with his incredible topspin and speed, Novak and Murray with their incredible returns.  Coric has none of those, not even a big serve, or the ability to take the ball early like Nishikori, he still has plenty to learn before becoming a top player.

Exactly. I'm willing to stick my neck out and say that I don't think Coric will beat a top 6 player for the rest of the year, and he won't beat a top 10 player in a Grand Slam for the rest of the year. (I could end up looking very foolish! )

[Belovedluckyboy]

Oh, I mean I'm a bit peed with Murray, not 'peed'!

[Belovedluckyboy]

Sorry, please ignored by previous post.

[HM Murdock]

Novak "The Baker" Djokovic has delivered a bagel in 5 of his last 7 matches against top ten opponents.

[Haddie-nuff]

Once again I agree IMBL (OMG what's wrong with me!!!!) I do believe he still has much to learn though I think he has the right mind set to do so but to quote the last lines of The Gladiator 'not yet ..not yet'!!!!

[LuvSports!]

Wow Berdych takes the set 7-5!

[HM Murdock]

Novak obliterating Tomas, as expected. I wouldn't be surprised if Berdych never wins another set against him.

You just had to jinx, didn't you?!

[It Must Be Love]

Edit: Novak obliterating Tomas, as expected. I wouldn't be surprised if Berdych never wins another set against him. The matchup is just all wrong for him (particularly regarding the serve), and mentally he doesn't seem to believe he can win. Because of that, unfortunately it's hard to read into Djok's form, other than 'very good'.

He's won another set now.

To be fair to you Silver, I totally agreed with you 40 minutes ago, so I am looking as foolish really.

[HM Murdock]

If anyone is watching this (I'm not, I'm at work), what's the standard like?

The scoreline is rather odd.

[It Must Be Love]

If anyone is watching this (I'm not, I'm at work), what's the standard like?

The scoreline is rather odd.

I'm watching now, it's a bit windy, and Djokovic is making a few more UEs than normal; Berdych playing much more aggressively than in the first set.

[LuvSports!]

Berdych is swinging much more freely but Djoko's level dropped which got berd back into it.

[Haddie-nuff]

First set as you would expect from the score line
Tomas has upped his game and is playing some superb tennis
Novak MTO in second (cut finger)nothing that a plaster didn't cure !!!Keep it up Birdy !!!

[HM Murdock]

Thanks for the responses.

Novak not the best in windy conditions, so Tomas may have a good chance of a rare (in this match up) win.

This may come down to whether Berd can hold his nerve.

[It Must Be Love]

And Djokovic breaks to love...

[Silver]

HM/IMBL: Shows how much I know!

I'm shocked that this is even remotely close. I know the Berd likes Dubai, but...

[Silver]

Novak "The Baker" Djokovic has delivered a bagel in 5 of his last 7 matches against top ten opponents.

That is so impressive, especially given that two of them were at the business end of a slam. Here's the full list, for those curious:

Stan - WTF RR
Nishikori - WTF SF
Stan - AO SF
Murray - AO F
Berdych - Dubai SF

Poor Stan! Only Raonic managed to escape the bakery before being force-fed.

[Born Slippy]

Oh, and what happened to Murray?  I was hoping to see a Murray/Fed SF here and Murray leveling their H2H, but Murray didn't put up consistently good showing match after match, I'm a bit peed with him.

I think what's really frustrating is that his final in Oz put him into a great position to solidly put himself top 4 for the rest of the year. Instead, he is in danger of finding himself still meeting big names in the QF of the big events. From what I have seen, the Coric match may well be the worst hard-court match he has played in his entire career.

[CaledonianCraig]

Oh, and what happened to Murray?  I was hoping to see a Murray/Fed SF here and Murray leveling their H2H, but Murray didn't put up consistently good showing match after match, I'm a bit peed with him.

I think what's really frustrating is that his final in Oz put him into a great position to solidly put himself top 4 for the rest of the year. Instead, he is in danger of finding himself still meeting big names in the QF of the big events. From what I have seen, the Coric match may well be the worst hard-court match he has played in his entire career.

I am more concerned that the Australian Open (over the last year) has been an oasis in a vast desert. For me it just looks like this year is heading in a similar direction as last year took. I hope I am wrong.

[Born Slippy]

I think he has probably been focussing on the Davis Cup Craig and I expect to see him looking sharp in those matches but, yes, I agree it is depressing to see him hitting routine shots into the net continually in matches he should be winning in 3rd gear.

[CaledonianCraig]

I think he has probably been focussing on the Davis Cup Craig and I expect to see him looking sharp in those matches but, yes, I agree it is depressing to see him hitting routine shots into the net continually in matches he should be winning in 3rd gear.

No I don't think he is just concentrating on the Davis Cup. He has been involved in the Davis Cup for many years now and it has never hampered his form before. This is just a continuation of what we saw last year - far too much inconsistency.

[It Must Be Love]

Go to 4:30 people !!! (also change settings to 720p is possible)



Unreal.

[Haddie-nuff]

GREAT!!!!!!!

[laverfan]

This is just a continuation of what we saw last year - far too much inconsistency.

This is why I had preferred Lendl, who drilled consistency. Compare this match to v Robredo @ Valencia.

[Born Slippy]

Erm, wasn't Murray very inconsistent under Lendl (outside slams)?

[CaledonianCraig]

Erm, wasn't Murray very inconsistent under Lendl (outside slams)?

Perhaps he was a fraction more consistent as was able to comfortably hold down a place in the top four which is not the case now. I wouldn't blame the consistency on the coach though - I'd lay that blame more firmly at Andy's feet.

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