Afroman punches woman on stage

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Post by Steffan on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 10:20 pm

People are defending him saying that if it was a bloke rubbing himself up against a female singer and she whacked him then everyone would be applauding her and saying the creep got he deserved

The bottom line is though, regardless of male or female, no one should be hitting anyone. The actual punch he throws though is pretty hard and nasty. Plus she falls back onto part of the stage

Security should be dealing with this kind of stuff in a more civilised manor. Personally I hope they throw the book at him. He doesn't come across as a particularly nice guy. Singing songs bragging about smoking marijuana and now this

Crowd view:



Overhead view:



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Post by Fernando on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 10:45 pm

Not gunna lie Steffan it ain't good.

But if you sneak onto the stage (where was security) and surprise people from the behind/side you're gunna get hit, Let's face it they could of easily had a knife.

When people sneak up on me i instantly throw an elbow unless someone has called my name.

Let's face it's not the 1st time he's had a go at someone who confronts him on stage...

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Post by Steffan on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 10:56 pm

I've added another view of it from an overhead position where you can see the full impact of the punch and her fall

3 people are at fault here:

1) The girl should not have been on stage
2) Security should have dealt with it

The 3rd fault though of him lamping her one goes well beyond anything the rest. I am not just saying this from a 'never hit a woman' stance though. I think it would have been equally as disgusting had he lamped some scrawny teenage boy or a grown adult like that. It just pure violence and cannot be justified

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Post by Fernando on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 11:04 pm

There is no excuse for punching her but you sneak up on people and rub up against them your likely to get lamped.

"if it was a bloke rubbing himself up against a female singer and she whacked him then everyone would be applauding her and saying the creep got he deserved"

To be fair they ain't wrong that's because most women are feminist hypocrites Laugh

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Post by Steffan on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 11:12 pm

Fernando wrote:To be fair they ain't wrong that's because most women are feminist hypocrites  Laugh
Yeah I always remember watching a video where actors were pretending a domestic violence scene was going on in public and how people would react

When the bloke was roughing up the woman people came rushing in and the male actor basically got threatened and more or less assaulted by infuriated members of the public

When they reversed the roles and the woman was punching the man...people were not only doing nothing about it but actually laughing at the situation taking this 'he must have really peed her off LOL' attitude

Afroman will get off with a slap on the wrist (not literally ofcourse) as he is claiming he was defending himself. If he found her such a threat though why did he casually carry on playing guitar after sparking her?

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Post by Stella on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 9:24 am

That's a disgusting cowardly punch, whether it be on a woman or a man.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 9:31 am

Some of the reporting has been a little sensationalised though. Talking about her lying bloodied on the floor when reality is he popped straight back up and wandered off stage.

She's an idiot who shouldn't think her gender can protect her & warrant greater condemnation of him, but he's a bigger idiot because irrespective of guy or girl his reaction should have been a shove not a sucker punch.

He has a right to protect his personal space, which she has no right to invade, but he did it in a wholly inappropriate manner - what a bell end.

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Post by Stella on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 9:33 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Some of the reporting has been a little sensationalised though.  Talking about her lying bloodied on the floor when reality is he popped straight back up and wandered off stage.

She's an idiot who shouldn't think her gender can protect her & warrant greater condemnation of him, but he's a bigger idiot because irrespective of guy or girl his reaction should have been a shove not a sucker punch.

He has a right to protect his personal space, which she has no right to invade, but he did it in a wholly inappropriate manner - what a bell end.

She got lucky.
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Post by kingraf on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:00 am

Hope he doesn't get anything harsh. Clearly a fight or flight response. If humans were built to first associate a threat, and then perceive danger, and then decide how to act, we would have died as a specie....

Bit of of a douchebag to not check she's alright though
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Post by Guest on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:02 am

I hear Floyd Mayweather is looking to fight him next as he's the most dangerous opponent available at the minute

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 2:51 pm

If anybody is going to attack the guy I shouldn't think he'd be rubbing his butt up against his first....

Doesn't seem to come from the latest Psychopath handbook..

He hit her because he takes himself too seriously and he thought she was taking the p**s...

The guy is a piece of scum.............Who deserves a stretch inside..

Must be related to the king sized p**ck Kanye West who instead of asking for donations for katrina on live TV as he was supposed to..... instead chirped.........."George Bush hates black people"...

Chuck him in jail for something too.........

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 3:38 pm

Afroman claims he got high but seems he was not high enough that was a textbook haymaker.

Surely if your high you either swing, miss and punch yourself in the face or stare into the distance wondering if you did or did not throw a punch or maybe you did but you can;t remember and why was you fighting anyway especially as you are hungry and why is everyone looking at me....

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Post by Guest on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 3:48 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Afroman claims he got high but seems he was not high enough that was a textbook haymaker.

Surely if your high you either swing, miss and punch yourself in the face or stare into the distance wondering if you did or did not throw a punch or maybe you did but you can;t remember and why was you fighting anyway especially as you are hungry and why is everyone looking at me....
I'm sure God will forgive him..............

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 4:00 pm

That wasn't even Afroman. Actually just a Government sponsored imposter put in place as a conspiracy to destabilise changing opinions towards marijuana use and further undermine the media image of African-American males........ Whistle

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 4:02 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:That wasn't even Afroman.  Actually just a Government sponsored imposter put in place as a conspiracy to destabilise changing opinions towards marijuana use and further undermine the media image of African-American males........ Whistle

You just burn with envy at the thought of anyone else indulging in munchies. Fat Slag

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Post by kingraf on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 4:04 pm

Pretty sure he claimed there was a guy in the left side of stage heckling him the whole show, which annoyed him, then next thing he knows some one is rubbing themselves on him, and he threw a haymaker. Wasn't a particularly good one as the woman seemed to have been faculties back quite sharpish.

Homie just bitched out for a minute. It happens
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 6:41 pm

kingraf wrote:Pretty sure he claimed there was a guy in the left side of stage heckling him the whole show,  which annoyed him, then next thing he knows some one is rubbing themselves on him, and he threw a haymaker. Wasn't a particularly good one as the woman seemed to have been faculties back quite sharpish.

Homie just bitched out for a minute. It happens

You sound like a class act..

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Post by trottb on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:24 pm

kingraf wrote:Pretty sure he claimed there was a guy in the left side of stage heckling him the whole show,  which annoyed him, then next thing he knows some one is rubbing themselves on him, and he threw a haymaker. Wasn't a particularly good one as the woman seemed to have been faculties back quite sharpish.

Homie just bitched out for a minute. It happens

And that is your justification for it? Even if that was the case, why didn't he check on her when he realised it wasn't a guy?

Honestly raf you have some serious issues.

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Post by incontinentia on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 12:05 am

Not sure if that is even a punch tbh, it looks open-handed. Still, a bad act but we know the content of this guy's character his disgusting lyrics about paraplegics and such. F*cking derelict.
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 12:39 am

To be fair, performers like him are probably a little paranoid about someone attacking them on stage, so he probably did go for fight or flight instinctively

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Post by trottb on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 12:59 am

But the point remains. He made no attempt to rectify his mistake. He casually carried on playing!

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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 5:25 am

Read my first post on it, Trott. Think you'll find the sentence, " Bit of of a douchebag to not check she's
alright though"

Pr!ck
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Post by trottb on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 10:25 am

kingraf wrote:Read my first post on it, Trott. Think you'll find the sentence, " Bit of of a douchebag to not check she's
alright though"

Pr!ck

"A bit of a douchebag". Brilliant, hopefully the judge is as harsh as you when delivering the sentence (if it gets that far).

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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 11:37 am

Well... look, you ask me, all he did wrong there was not, once realising there was no danger, checking she's alright. Contrary to what Captain Tubbs would have you believe, there is a large portion of the global population that would have reacted the exact same way to a perceived threat. Theyve made a freaking television genre out similar behaviour!!!
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Post by trottb on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 12:51 pm

Fair enough Raf, you're entitled to your opinion. I can't say I agree with you in the slightest. What next, I can punch someone in a supermarket for tapping me on the shoulder, or whatever else may make me jump?

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Post by Steffan on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 1:02 pm

Someone in Cardiff city centre approached me the other week in broad daylight. I thought they were going to mug me or attack me or something so I smashed them in the face and put the boot in a couple of times

Turns out it was someone trying sign me up to a charity. I wondered why they had a 'Greenpeace' jacket on and a clipboard for

Anyway it was ok for kick seven bells of crap out of them because if someone approaches you then you have to assume they have bad intentions. It's not because you are a paranoid maniac or anything...

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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 1:31 pm

It's not about whether you agree or not. If it's not your instinctive reaction, then unless you've studied this sort of thing you'll never understand it. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. There's literally thousands of pieces of literature by smarter men and women than I on this topic, just click on Google Scholar, or buy a book on it. There's also old episodes of MTV's Ridiculousness where you can watch dozens people get the snot beat out of them for startling their friends.

Also the Supermarket comparison is completely irreconcilable for a series of reasons.

- A supermarket is a public place, friends, family etc can meet you there. There is no justifiable reason for anybody to be touching youon stage, especially mid performance.

- Getting tapped on the shoulder is completely different to having someone rub themselves all over you from behind


iLoveMakkonen (a rapper... Well, a someone) was attacked on stage a few months back. Took a blow to the back of the head from some random on stage... but sure... this sort of thing never happens
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Post by trottb on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 1:52 pm

Ok so I'm stood in a tight corridor and someone squeezes past me. Is it then acceptable to start smashing them?

What if it had been one of his management team or a security member who touched him - due to some emergency?

I imagine that you would feel differently if this was an American police officer who had started hitting lumps out of someone for startling them.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:02 pm

Still not the same... There's literally an entire stage she could have gone around. Hell.. she could have done what normal people do at concerts and not invaded the stage. What emergency has you rubbing up against a man? He needs to urgently ejaculate?

He threw one shot. Thats not beating lumps out of a person. Had it been a sustained assault, I would have felt completely different, as there's an inherent difference between throwing a single shot and a barrage. I've never attacked a cop for throwing one shot at a person who was rubbing themselves against him. Why would I? This is sexual assault in public! Think Beyoncé would be arrested if a man came from nowhere and started ribbing himself against her?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:12 pm

kingraf wrote:Still not the same... There's literally an entire stage she could have gone around. Hell..  she could have done what normal people do at concerts and not invaded the stage. What emergency has you rubbing up against a man? He needs to urgently ejaculate?

He threw one shot. Thats not beating lumps out of a person. Had it been a sustained assault, I would have felt completely different, as there's an inherent difference between throwing a single shot and a barrage. I've never attacked a cop for throwing one shot at a person who was rubbing themselves against him. Why would I? This is sexual assault in public! Think Beyoncé would be arrested if a man came from nowhere and started ribbing himself against her?

You're trying to justify the unjustifiable.............

You know it ..I know it !!


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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:21 pm

I do know that you're an idiot.

NO thread when Les Chambers was attacked on stage by a white woman. You're a cretin, you really are.
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Post by trottb on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:31 pm

kingraf wrote:Still not the same... There's literally an entire stage she could have gone around. Hell..  she could have done what normal people do at concerts and not invaded the stage. What emergency has you rubbing up against a man? He needs to urgently ejaculate?

He threw one shot. Thats not beating lumps out of a person. Had it been a sustained assault, I would have felt completely different, as there's an inherent difference between throwing a single shot and a barrage. I've never attacked a cop for throwing one shot at a person who was rubbing themselves against him. Why would I? This is sexual assault in public! Think Beyoncé would be arrested if a man came from nowhere and started ribbing himself against her?

Whilst i'll agree she shouldn't have been anywhere near him, my point remains. If, as you have suggested, we are to believe that he was in fight or flight mode then what would happen if one of his entourage grabbed him to tell him something? And why didn't he attack the guy who got on stage to help the woman? Surely that is more threatening than someone bumping their rear end into yours?


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:34 pm

kingraf wrote:I do know that you're an idiot.

NO thread when Les Chambers was attacked on stage by a white woman. You're a cretin, you really are.

Admit it...........He's black so you have sympathy...

It's pitiful..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:44 pm

It's unjustifiable..


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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:48 pm

Because - I would assume having eliminated the "danger", his sympathetic nervous system reverted to normal. The adrenal glands cooled and he reverted. You're confusing fight or flight with blind rage. It's not the same thing. Think a woman kicking a would be robber in nads (fight)... she's not going to then continuously stomp on his nuts until he can't have babies, fetch a baseball bat and then continue to beat him to a pulp. Why would he then attack everyone in sight? That's not how it works. That would be a defective evolutionary trait. Logically, if you were in the Bush and a 200lbs animal you don't eat attacked you, it would be stupid to then try kill every other animal in your near vicinity. It becomes useless then. Again though... what kind of security team calls your attention to something by rubbing themselves against you?

"Alright Afroman, when we have a code red, I'll grab your nuts seductively and rub them"...

There's also the fact that we already agreed that he's probably a bit of a douchebag.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:53 pm

kingraf wrote:Because - I would assume having eliminated the "danger", his sympathetic nervous system reverted to normal. The adrenal glands cooled and he reverted. You're confusing fight or flight with blind rage. It's not the same thing. Think a woman kicking a would be robber in nads (fight)... she's not going to then continuously stomp on his nuts until he can't have babies, fetch a baseball bat and then continue to beat him to a pulp. Why would he then attack everyone in sight? That's not how it works. That would be a defective evolutionary trait. Logically, if you were in the Bush and a 200lbs animal you don't eat attacked you, it would be stupid to then try kill every other animal in your near vicinity. It becomes useless then. Again though... what kind of security team calls your attention to something by rubbing themselves against you?

"Alright Afroman, when we have a code red, I'll grab your nuts seductively and rub them"...

There's also the fact that we already agreed that he's probably a bit of a douchebag.

What a load of bollox.......... Laugh Laugh

Azania had more style..


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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:54 pm

Truss you really are an idiot. There was nothing official about those statistics. We actually have an official Statistic database. I have no need to believe the word of a crackpot group of people who think having a murder rate of 7 per 100 000 in a country with one of 33 per 100 000 makes a genocide. It's the most disrespectful Poopie I've read on here, and I'd honestly have Frak killed you that day. The boers in Zimbabwe of which I'm a descendent were fu.cking murdered and ran out of their country. Don't you ever speak about a situation you don't know about you Frak.ing disrespectful piece of shi.t. You're a useless excuse for a man. All nice in your paid for ivory tower, moan about your son having it easy in life when you took the first exit to easy street and stil cheated. You're cretin, and a sh.it stain.
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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:58 pm

Anyway, Trott before I get myself banned... Mate if you wanna continue discussing this, I won't mind PMing you and directing you to research based literature backing everything I've said here. I'm finished on this thread.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 2:58 pm

I've edited............

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt regardless of your history..


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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 3:13 pm

I don't give a Frak about your benefit of the doubt you're a piece of shi.t. Six million Jews died in the Holocaust. Ten million black Conglese died under the genocide of Leopald, which was disguised as scientific progress. There are almost no Frak white Zimbabweans left, and you have the temerity to say a population which literally has a better quality of life than most of Western Europe are being oppressed. It's cheap shot designed to get a rouse. It's a sh.it statement, a disrespectful statement, designed to get a reaction. No one but no one is as ignorant as to claim a Interpol stat which counted attempted murder as actual murder is a legitimate Frak stat sheet.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 3:28 pm

kingraf wrote:I don't give a Frak about your benefit of the doubt you're a piece of shi.t. Six million Jews died in the Holocaust. Ten million black Conglese died under the genocide of Leopald, which was disguised as scientific progress. There are almost no Frak white Zimbabweans left, and you have the temerity to say a population which literally has a better quality of life than most of Western Europe are being oppressed. It's cheap shot designed to get a rouse. It's a sh.it statement, a disrespectful statement, designed to get a reaction. No one but no one is as ignorant as to claim a Interpol stat which counted attempted murder as actual murder is a legitimate Frak stat sheet.

You really are a classless punk....

So transparent too.. Cool

1. Denying there has been plenty of violence against White farmers in SA.......Despite overwhelming official evidence of it..

2. One assault on a black criminal and the whole of the NYPD are seemingly racist......

3. Seemingly okay for a huge black guy to smack a white Woman about !!

Wouldn't want to analyse you too deeply would we ??????............

Might not like what we find hey Sunny !! thumbsup


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Post by kingraf on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 3:37 pm

You're a useless Poopie stain. Nothing more nothing less. Have no time or energy for you and your cheap shots. You honestly think you fool anybody?

Foed
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 3:38 pm

kingraf wrote:You're a useless Poopie stain. Nothing more nothing less. Have no time or energy for you and your cheap shots. You honestly think you fool anybody?

Foed

Not wrote anything that isn't true in the above three points as other posters can attest to !!...........You're an unpleasant Man !!

and...........OOh your insults are so hurtful..... Cool

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 8:16 pm

Why dont you just not argue about it? Cos clearly you know its an emotional subject for Raf and you dont have anywhere near the investment in it. Just remember manners, sometimes, over trying to drill home whether youre right or wrong

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 9:39 pm

Emotionally involved !!!..


Okay...


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 20 Feb 2015, 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 2:26 am

Im not blaming anyone, I just don't think its worth arguing.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 5:28 am

1 - I don't know how to make this any clearer for you. Farmers are killed because they live in secluded areas with little to no protection. I've recounted a few times on here about the Christmas I woke up on the farm and there was an axe wielding loon in the corner of my room. These things happen on farms. Not long ago, a guy got beaten to within an inch of his life by the community for stealing bread (that's how poor people are in farm communities - stealing something as basic as bread is almost a capital offence). Farming community isn't easy if you're not the farmer Truss. Its nothing like the States or Britain. High level of unemployment, little to no sanitation, interrupted power supplies. Then you've got an unemployed youth which is addicted to Whoonga. They'll literally do anything for a score... it's an awful set of circumstances, given the obvious (it's a farm so there is no business sector... just farms), it's quite clear that crime in farming communities are going to be high. There should then be no surprise that the targets are the only financially secure people in the area. If it was a racial thing, why are 40% of all farm attack victims Black and coloured? It's an idiotic idea. Steve Hofmyer (presumably your Afrikaans spirit animal) tried to argue this less than a year, he got it handed to him, with good reason. Plenty of White farmers in Pretoria, why is the farm murder rate here lower than the national average? Also. if you want to cry genocide, what would you class the murder rate in KwaZulu Natal as? Nearly a 100 murders per 100 000 in some of the black townships. You seem to think farmers by virtue of being white, deserve special protection from living in an extraordinarily violent country. Why? Why is it fine for 100 black people to die not white people? The entire time we've argued (I've argued, you've interjected with thumbsucked data), you've said nothing about the black people murdered for fun in Umlazi. You've said nothing about the coloured population being oppressed, murdered, and forced into prostitution and the drug game in Mitchells Plein. But it's okay for them to die, because thats expected right?

2 - Yawn, whatever. Show me the post where I accused the Nypd of being racist, yeah? You're confusing that with the post I made where I said that there's a training problem if you can shoot and kill a twelve year old playing with a gun (Especially if the gun is in his pants at the time!!!). I don't even know if that was NYPD. Cops here are rotten, and get slaughtered basically (unsurprisingly, you've spoken nowt of the genocide of police officers), but they wouldn't shoot at a 12-year old. And if they did, certainly wouldn't get defended, and told good job.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 5:47 am

3 - http://changingminds.org/explanations/brain/fight_flight.htm

" The natural judgment system is also
turned down and more primitive
responses take over–this is a time for
action rather than deep thought."


http://www.murrellpsychologicalservice.com/blog/2013/03/09/The-Good-and-Bad-News-about-Anxiety.aspx

"As we grow older our limbic system
encounters other situations that it adds
to the list of "dangerous or threatening"
events."

I believe that Fernando already mentioned that Afroman has had previous crowd control issues?

" As we age we gather more and more
data into the Limbic System information
storage (which remains in our
unconscious mind but instantly
available). The limbic system therefore
begins to have a large number of
situations that cause the "fight or flight"
response. This may include anxiety
about taking tests, meeting new people,
public speaking, taking elevators, being
on high places, or spending time alone."

So believe it or not... it doesn't need to be knife wielding fan, just needs to be a reminder of negative experiences.

" listed above involve actual physical
threat even though the limbic system
response is a physiological one. In other
words, the limbic system is a "one trick
pony". Meaning that no matter what
type of situation it is that we perceive to
be threatening (meaning it may be a
threat to us socially or psychologically)
the limbic system always treats any
perceived threat as if it were a potential
physical threat to our very survival."


" As a result we get a large number of
"false positives" in our daily lives. That
is we react to things that may or may not
be at all threatening as if they were in
fact life threatening. It like having a car
alarm that goes off every time someone
may bump the side of your car in a
parking lot with their car door or a
shopping cart. The car alarm
misinterprets this as if someone is trying
to break into and steal your car. In
other words, it over reacts in much the
same way our own limbic system does.
In both cases the car alarm and your
limbic system are taking no chances;
they will try to protect you even though
they are over reacting in the extreme."

I generally don't refer to information from a site with ".com" for literature on a topic, but I'm not gonna pay $20 to prove a point using journals. In any case, it's only an overview.

So you've learnt something today.... turns out I wasn't making it up.

Pr!ck

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Post by kingraf on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 6:50 am

And just to once and for all dead this whole farm murder genocidal myth... Here we go

- From a rather anti government website

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2014-07-31-dodgy-statistics-just-a-means-to-an-end-for-steve-hofmeyr-and-sunette-bridges/

http://africacheck.org/reports/are-white-afrikaners-really-being-killed-like-flies/

I like this one a lot. Here are the many misconceptions you've made. Hold on, this could get long:

South African musician Steve Hofmeyr has claimed that the number of
white South Africans killed by blacks would fill a soccer stadium, that white
Afrikaners are being killed “like flies” and that a white farmer is murdered
every five days. But the claims are incorrect and grossly exaggerated. In
fact, whites are less likely to be murdered than any other race group.
Researched by Nechama Brodie
Follow @africacheck
Are white Afrikaners really being killed “like flies”? Is a white South African
farmer being “slaughtered every five days?” Would the number of whites
“killed in SA in black on white violence” fill one of the country’s largest
football stadiums?
These are some of the claims made recently by Steve Hofmeyr, one of
South Africa’s most popular, and controversial, Afrikaans singers and
performers. In a post on his blog and Facebook page titled “My tribe is
dying”, Hofmeyr made several sweeping statements about South Africa’s
murder rate and the quality of life of white Afrikaans-speaking South
Africans.
Within a day of it being posted, Hofmeyr’s blog entry and a pie chart that
he used to support some of his claims were “liked” by more than 2,000
Facebook users. A similar number also shared the post on their Facebook
pages.
The Facebook entry was subsequently removed but later reposted without
the pie chart. By way of explanation Hofmeyr stated: “The facts are good
but they shouldnt be in a pie-chart. Im removing the pic. It will be replaced
with the real PIE.” On his Facebook page Hofmeyr explained the issue with
the pie chart was not with the statistics, rather: “It should be separate
charts (pre&post Apartheid).”
At the same time, Hofmeyr posted an image of the interior of a “World Cup
soccer stadium” - which appears to be Johannesburg’s Soccer City –
together with a statement that the “amount of whites killed in SA in black
on white violence” would produce a body count capable of filling the
stadium’s seats.
“A lot of bodies to lose in stats”
.
Hofmeyr then went on
to make the following statements on Twitter:
“ Old SA averaged 7039 murders/year from 1950. New SA averaged
24206 (SAP) or 47882 (Interpol). Sorry Columbia (sic). We still champs.”
“ When SAP claimed 26000 murders in 96, Interpol counted 54000. A lot
of bodies to lose in stats.”
“ There is a discrepancy of 10 000 murders per year between government
and MRC figures!”
Several readers asked Africa Check to investigate the accuracy of
Hofmeyr’s various claims, among them that:
Whites are being murdered at a rate faster than any previous period in
South Africa’s history.
A white farmer is murdered every five days.
During apartheid, black-on-black violence was responsible for the
majority of black homicides, with only a fractional percentage of black
murders due to government forces.
“Whites killed by blacks since apartheid 77.3%”. This is unclear as
Hofmeyr has not indicated what factor the percentage is of however
Africa Check assumes Hofmeyr is stating 77.3% of all white homicides
(since 1994) have been perpetrated by blacks.
The number of whites killed by blacks in South Africa is equivalent to, or
more than, the number of seats at Soccer City stadium, which has a
maximum seating capacity of 94,736.
There are significant discrepancies between murders reported by the
South African Police Service and other agencies and that these
discrepancies have been used to hide or obscure the “truth” about
murder in South Africa.
Where does Hofmeyr get his information?
.
Hofmeyr declined to
reveal his sources to Africa Check but later stated on Twitter: “Our
unpopular pie-chart is from a book by Vusi Tshabalala and merely highlites
the lie of white on black genocide during Apartheid”. Africa Check has not
been able to establish whether Vusi Tshabalala really exists or which
publication Hofmeyr was referring to.
On various white right-wing sites, reference is made to a “Vusile
Tshabalala” who supposedly wrote an article in 2001 about the “killing
fields” of post-apartheid South Africa. Invariably the sites describe
Tshabalala as a “journalist” and then, for emphasis, as a “black journalist”.
No indication is given of where Tshabalala worked, nor does he appear to
have written any other articles.
Hofmeyr’s other claims appear to stem from a 2003 paper titled, “Murder in
South Africa: a comparison of past and present”. It was written by Rob
McCafferty, then a communications director for the conservative Cape
Town-based lobby group, United Christian Action .
McCafferty’s paper, published at the peak of crime levels in South Africa,
appeared to offer a comprehensive survey of crime literature and
subsequent analysis of crime data and trends over a period of more than
five decades. There are, however, several significant flaws in the
presentation and interpretation of data, some of which McCafferty
acknowledged himself.
There are no “average” murders
.
McCafferty’s paper
presented a graph based on figures sourced directly from “annual police
reports and CSS: Statistics of Offence annual reports” showing the total
number of murders reported to the police between 1950 and 2000.
McCafferty conceded in his paper that “factors such as population growth
and differentials in time periods…would make it unfair to compare this
data” and pointed out that it was “not logically sound to do such
comparisons”.
But McCafferty proceeded to do just that and aggregated 44 years of
murder numbers (309,583 recorded murders from 1950 to 1993) to reach
an “average” of 7,036 murders a year under apartheid.
He then contrasted that figure with his own aggregation of post-1994
Interpol statistics, from which he determined an annual average of 47,882
murders.
This appears to make a case for a shocking increase in homicides in the
post-apartheid era. But, as we explain below, the Interpol murder statistics
McCafferty used are widely regarded as inaccurate. And McCafferty’s
“average” murder numbers show a very different picture when plotted
against South Africa’s population figures.
Murder and other crime statistics are commonly expressed by statisticians,
crime analysts and researchers as a ratio per 100,000 of the population
rather than in raw numbers. McCafferty’s failure to have done so indicates
exactly why this is preferred practise.
According to McCafferty’s graph, less than 2,500 murders were reported to
the police in 1951. The census results of that year indicate that the total
population of South Africa at the time was 12,671,452. The “murder ratio”
therefore works out at 19.73 murders for every 100,000 people.
By 1970, the total number of reported murders appeared to be approaching
7,000. With a population of about 21,7-million, this would equate to a
murder ratio of 32.12 per 100,000.
McCafferty’s graph showed that the number of homicides increased
steadily from 1950. What McCafferty had not taken into account was that
South Africa’s population had also steadily increased.
By 1994, SA’s murder numbers, according to McCafferty, had reached
25,000 a year. With a population of just under 40-million, this translated to a
murder ratio of a 62.5. South Africa’s murder rate for all races peaked in
the period during and following the transition to democracy.
However, in a paper published by the Medical Research Council, crime
analyst and author Antony Altbeker found that by 2003/4 the rate had
fallen to less than 43 murders per 100,000. The murder rate has continued
to decline since then, dropping to 30.9 for 2011/12 according to the South
African Police Service Crime Statistics Overview. Significantly, given
Hofmeyr’s claims, it is lower than the murder rate documented in 1970
under apartheid.
All the independent security and research experts we consulted for this
report agreed that current murder figures provided by the South Africa
Police Service (SAPS) should be considered accurate.
The trouble with apartheid-era data
.
Both Altbeker and Mark Shaw,
a senior researcher at the Institute for Security Studies who has worked
extensively with apartheid-era crime data, told Africa Check that official
police figures during apartheid were not an accurate representation of
national homicide rates.
Crime reports from the Bantustans – the nominally independent black
“homelands“ established under the auspices of the apartheid state – were
not included in South Africa’s national figures. In addition, according to
Shaw, “a proportion of homicide cases among Africans were not reported
or recorded” owing to the absence or lower levels of policing in the
townships and rural areas.
Therefore it is probable that while white homicides during apartheid were
accurately documented by the state, the number of black homicides was
understated in official reports. For this reason, the “blacks killed” portions
of Hofmeyr’s chart must be discounted; the data is simply not reliable
enough to make any accurate findings – and the role of apartheid in
creating or contributing to violence and murder in black communities is
difficult to isolate.
Since 1990, race has not been listed as a category in official death records.
This deliberate omission may have been intended to avoid exactly the kind
of issue raised by Hofmeyr’s claims; the interpretation of raw data by non-
experts to support some form of race-based conspiracy theory. In reality,
however, the absence of such information has effectively perpetuated a
race-crime mythology in South Africa.
It is, however, possible to gauge trends in white homicide based on older
data. A 2004 report published in the SA Crime Quarterly compares homicide
rates across all races from 1937 to 2003. Based on this, it is clear that
homicide rates for all races increased over this period (although they fell
somewhat from 2003 onward). However, the increase in the white
homicide rate began in the late 1970s and has remained markedly less than
the increase in murder rates for all other race groups.
Murder by numbers
.
A central thread of
Hofmeyr’s claims relates to apparent discrepancies in South African murder
statistics. Hofmeyr cites figures that appeared in McCafferty’s report
which stated that “[w]hile police crime statistics show there were 21,683
murders in 2000, the [Medical Research Council] puts the figure at 32,482″.
McCaffrey also stated that ”while the SAPS claims there were 26,883
murders in 1995/96, Interpol claims there were 54,298”.
In its report at the time, the MRC said it “notes discrepancies in the
statistics concerning road traffic accident deaths and homicides which
needs further investigation”. A revision of the 2000 data was published in
2006, in which the total number of deaths was revised downwards, from
550,000 to 520,000, and the “number of injury deaths” [which include
homicide and traffic accidents] was “revised down by about 10,000”.
Based on this updated information, it was stated that “[o]f the estimated
59,935 injury deaths in 2000, 46% (27,563) were homicides”. That still
leaves a discrepancy of nearly 6,000 deaths.
Altbeker dealt with this specific issue in great detail in his report on murder
and robbery in South Africa, in which he argued that “the MRC’s figures
cannot be reliably used to refute the numbers presented by SAPS”. In
short, he found that the data used to compile the MRC’s estimates had
been incomplete or flawed and had yielded an inaccurate and overstated
picture.
The “murder gap” between Interpol and SAPS numbers is easier to explain.
Altbeker told Africa Check that Interpol combined both murder and
attempted murder figures for South Africa, resulting in inflated numbers.
This is confirmed by the 1999 Global Report on Crime and Justice
published by the United Nations Office for Drug Control and Crime
Prevention. Altbeker wrote extensively about the challenges with
international crime data collection and comparison in a separate paper.
Both McCafferty and Hofmeyr’s claims about murder number discrepancies
must therefore be dismissed.
White death in a time of democracy
.
“Whites are far less
likely to be murdered than their black or coloured counterparts,” Lizette
Lancaster, who manages the Institute for Security Studies crime and
justice hub, told Africa Check. This is supported by an analysis of a
national sample of 1378 murder dockets conducted by police in 2009. In
86.9% of the cases, the victims were Africans. Whites accounted for 1.8%
of the cases (although whites make up 8.85% of the population).
According to Lancaster official police statistics show that between April
1994 and March 2012 a total of 361 015 people were murdered in South
Africa. Applying the 1.8% figure, it would mean that roughly 6,498 whites
have been murdered since April 1994.
Even if there were some variation on the 1.8% figure, the number of white
murder victims would still fail to come anywhere close to filling a soccer
stadium. The fact is that whites are less likely to be murdered than any
other race in South Africa. The current murder rate of white South Africans
is also equivalent to, or lower than, murder rates for whites recorded
between 1979 and 1991.
According to the 2011/12 SAPS annual report , Lancaster said,“only about
16% of murders occurred during the commission of another crime, mainly
aggravated robbery. About 65% of murders started off as assaults due to
interpersonal arguments and fuelled by alcohol and/or drugs, result[ing] in a
murder”. The vast majority of murders are, she said,“social fabric crimes
often perpetrated by friends or loved ones”.
The 2012 Victims of Crime Survey confirmed this assertion, stating that
16.1% of victims were “murdered by unknown people from outside their
residential area” with an additional 10.9% of “murders … committed by
known perpetrators outside [the victims’] residential area”, and the balance
of homicides committed by community members, spouses and friends or
acquaintances.
Even if the proportion of “outsider” crime was doubled for white homicide
victims, this would still fall drastically short of the “77.3%” of white
murders that Hofmeyr appears to claim are at the hands of black
perpetrators.
Farm attacks
.
The interpretation of
data on “farm attacks” is problematic as it relies on old police data and
current, self-reported data collected and submitted by the Transvaal
Agricultural Union of South Africa (TAUSA).
TAUSA figures for the 22 years between 1990 and 2012 state that 1,544
people were killed in farm attacks, an average of about 70 a year or one
every 5.2 days. A report by trade union Solidarity, issued in 2012, found
that 88 farmers were murdered in the 2006 to 2007 financial year.
So was Hofmeyr correct in claiming that “a white farmer is slaughtered
every five days”?
According to a 2003 police committee of inquiry into farm attacks, cited by
Solidarity, 38.4% of farm attack victims were described as being black,
coloured or Asian. TAUSA’s figures suggest that 208 (or 13.5%) of those
murdered in farm attacks between 1990 and 2012 were black.
Hofmeyr’s statement that a white farmer is murdered every five days is
therefore also incorrect. The claim would only be true if he included all
farm attack victims of all races.
Conclusion – Hofmeyr’s claims are grossly incorrect
Hofmeyr’s claims are incorrect and grossly exaggerated the level of
killings.
South Africa certainly has one of the highest crime rates in the world and
one that is characterised by a particularly high rate of violent crime. This is
not an area where degrees of comparison offer any form of comfort. South
Africans are affected daily by crime.
South Africa remains gripped by its fear of crime. In the 2012 Victims of
Crime Survey, about 35% of households believed that crime had increased
since the previous period.
Public figures like Hofmeyr, who disseminate grossly misleading information
about crime patterns, only serve to contribute to this underlying fear. In
addition, such misinformation creates or entrenches existing racial divisions
and perpetuates an unfounded fear and hatred of other races.


- I especially liked the part where Solidarity (a Woe is me Afrikaans group) quotes the non White farm victim murder rate as 38%, but TAUSA ignore that and go for the jugular anyway by claiming it's 13%. Imagine that... Two Help-Ons organisations can't even decide which made up stats are the correct stats to make up... Doesn't stop certain idiots from quoting them mind you...

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 7:59 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
kingraf wrote:I don't give a Frak about your benefit of the doubt you're a piece of shi.t. Six million Jews died in the Holocaust. Ten million black Conglese died under the genocide of Leopald, which was disguised as scientific progress. There are almost no Frak white Zimbabweans left, and you have the temerity to say a population which literally has a better quality of life than most of Western Europe are being oppressed. It's cheap shot designed to get a rouse. It's a sh.it statement, a disrespectful statement, designed to get a reaction. No one but no one is as ignorant as to claim a Interpol stat which counted attempted murder as actual murder is a legitimate Frak stat sheet.

You really are a classless punk....

So transparent too.. Cool

1. Denying there has been plenty of violence against White farmers in SA.......Despite overwhelming official evidence of it..

2. One assault on a black criminal and the whole of the NYPD are seemingly racist......

3. Seemingly okay for a huge black guy to smack a white Woman about !!

Wouldn't want to analyse you too deeply would we ??????............

Might not like what we find hey Sunny !! thumbsup

1 assault????


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