Why rage against the machine ??

Over the last year I've been using machines more..............Probably has to do with my joints getting older but I do feel I've made some gains.....

I was from the era where machines were frowned on and I'm sorry I bought into the garbage !!..........

1. Your muscle is dealing with the load.............It doesn't know whether it's a bar or a machine all it knows is that it has to deal with the stress.......

2. Like the new Incline press machine we have at the gym.............You can actually feel free to fight the last rep down and gain with a quality negative........Now this can't be done very often with 280 pounds on a bench.........I mean who is going to trust their spotter to produce his best bent over row when the neg is over........!!!

Machines do tend to help with performing the negative portion of the rep ......as we know the negative is probably even more important than the positive...when it comes to growth.........

3. Machines take the balance problems away........Yes that may mean some of the little ancillary muscles aren't being worked as much...........But it does put emphasis on where you want to train........

Rage against the machine ? I did for years..............and now I regret it.........................

I think that its just an old school way of thinking and the fact that rubbish gyms generally had the old multigym rather than free weights due mainly to lack of space. I think many people, myself included, and quite possibly wrongly, consider that true compound exercises have to be done with free weights to build power & strength, point 3 you made being the main reason. But things have come on leaps and bounds since the first multigym came out and maybe if you are training as a bodybuilder as opposed to for strength & power and a little size they could be easily as good if not better.

Not done any weights seriously in years, just kick/boxing, circuit training, bodyweight exercises & yoga but want to do some again, purely to put on some muscle and get stronger but feel a bit lost with the machines. Have always been been a fan of squats and deadlifts and believed these to be important exercises when doing a weights program.

Do squats but not deads......Back won't have it..

Got a good T bar weight now though......Gets the job done...

Truss

Im a great believer in looking at all systems, equipment etc available and taking the best out of them to suit your training needs and throwing away what you don't like or don't need.

AN example I don't rate Cross fit. I think their technique is awful and potential dangerous. I laugh when I see their attempts at "pull ups".

However as a guy who likes circuit training I have taken some ideas away from Crossfit and modified it to suit myself.

I quite often use the machines to do a high rep session. 2 x 50 reps on chest machine, shoulder press machine, lat pull, seated row etc etc.

Its a killer of a session.

Great stuff Mate.................

Bodybuilders are scared of change...........I was for years ...Had to bench, squat, dead but sometimes different exercises work better for different people......

As good as the bench, Squat, Deads are..............1. The form isn't always right......2. They share the load with other muscles and sometimes like me on the bench the shoulders enjoy it too much !!

Also variety stops you becoming stale...................Wish I was as adventurous as I am now years ago.........

You've found an interesting way and good luck to you Mate................

NO RULES IN BODYBUILDING !!!

Interesting stuff geordiefalcon, is the high rep stuff just for stamina/conditioning?

As I have not done any weights in years and want to strengthen myself and build a little muscle, would you guys recommend machines over free weights especially as I have had a problem with my shoulder and at the moment have tennis elbow? My fitness is good but I have lost quite a bit of weight since xmas and want to do something about it but obviously not just put fat on by eating crap.

Reps are a funny thing too..........

We were religiously told never do more of than 15 or it's "aerobic" training.....

Sometimes you'd be thinking during a set "Oh no I hope I reach failure soon instead of concentrating on the exercise"

I just wish I'd learn't a lot of what you get told is BS earlier.............

Interestingly with regards to reps & what you were told, last year whilst having physio sessions I was using a pulley machine with very light weights and high reps for about 4 months for what you might call remedial or recovery work, not sure the exact term, and although I wasn't building muscle per se I did notice my arms & shoulders becoming firmer/toned & more defined. I don't believe that high reps should be written off especially once you've had an injury.

When i started I used to do 6 to 8 reps as per convention...

When I tried 8 - 12 .............I grew better than ever.........

Everybody is different my friend..........Trick is ....to find what works for you !!

High reps defo work better for me, lower weight, strict form and hopefully injury free. I'm tall & slim as opposed to stocky, so big weights low rep stuff is not for me. Been interesting talking with the physio about training and body types and how different types deal with different exercises and techniques

The 50 rep x 2 sets is more strength endurance.

You can't go particularly heavy, but it works your stamina, which I like for my boxing and it actually gives you a good pump.
You could just as easily do it with free weights...but I just like doing it on the machines.

Never be dictated by what others say or tell you is good or bad. Decide what you want from your trainin.. Your end goal then try out all things until you find exercises or equipment that works exactly as you need.

Anything useless... Throw away.

But Always remember what works for you might not for someone else, and vice versa, so respect their way of training.....unless it's cross fit....have you seen those pull ups..

Yeah seen them, kipping I think they call it whatever that refers to? Don't know much about crossfit but I get the impression that good form goes out the window in favor of weight and 'reps'! Really don't understand that, why see who can do the most bad pull ups, for example, as opposed to who can do them properly?

Some good points above geordiefalcon, I want to put on a bit of muscle and be more toned as opposed to looking skinny, I have good cardio/endurance/stamina due to kickboxing, cycling & yoga but I want to strengthen myself as well and look better. Need to get some balance in my training. I'm going to concentrate on the machines for a while and then move onto some free weights although my gym, which is more for kickboxing, doesn't have a great weights room.

Yeah Kipping...they've got a cheek to call them pull ups.

Well Truss is probably better to advise on the bodybuilding side.

Whats your weekly training routine? Ie How many days a week will you be focusing on strength / weights etc.

Ps You don't need weights.
Handstand Press ups, Marine Press Ups, Hindu Press Ups, Pull ups (the king of them for me), Hindu Squats....

And if you have a barbell with some weights...then you can do all that is needed - Deadlifts, Shoulder Press, Bench Press, Squat, Clean and Jerks....what more do you need

sohotnot wrote:Yeah seen them, kipping I think they call it whatever that refers to? Don't know much about crossfit but I get the impression that good form goes out the window in favor of weight and 'reps'! Really don't understand that, why see who can do the most bad pull ups, for example, as opposed to who can do them properly?

Some good points above geordiefalcon, I want to put on a bit of muscle and be more toned as opposed to looking skinny, I have good cardio/endurance/stamina due to kickboxing, cycling & yoga but I want to strengthen myself as well and look better. Need to get some balance in my training. I'm going to concentrate on the machines for a while and then move onto some free weights although my gym, which is more for kickboxing, doesn't have a great weights room.

If you want to put on more muscle I suggest you cut down on the cardio..............People forget you lose calories and get the heart rate ticking by pushing up weights........

Never understood bodybuilders who do cardio before the weights which I see a lot...........Save all your energy for the lifts....

We used to have one of those beep test things the cops use in one of my old gyms.............Even though I didn't do cardio I still got over 11 minutes everytime I used it and was one of the last ones on !!

Because bodybuilding kept me fit............

Less is sometimes more in this game.......You can often get the same results aerobically doing a vigorous set of weights than spending hours on a bike..

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah Kipping...they've got a cheek to call them pull ups.

Well Truss is probably better to advise on the bodybuilding side.

Whats your weekly training routine? Ie How many days a week will you be focusing on strength / weights etc.

Ps You don't need weights.
Handstand Press ups, Marine Press Ups, Hindu Press Ups, Pull ups (the king of them for me), Hindu Squats....

And if you have a barbell with some weights...then you can do all that is needed - Deadlifts, Shoulder Press, Bench Press, Squat, Clean and Jerks....what more do you need

The routine for the last year or so has been kickboxing 2 - 4 times per week and yoga 2 - 4 times per week. Since the beginning of the year I have been cycling 8km to work each day and 8km back and if I have an early shift then I can easily double that distance in a day! I will look to do 2 days a week weights/strength training and cut the other training down to 2 or 3 days per week each.

I will google/youtube the aforementioned exercises, have always been a fan of bodyweight stuff & circuits but need to learn to train them as strength workouts as opposed to cardio workouts.

Some interesting points Truss, like you I don't understand cardio before weights, as I have found cardio can zap your strength. Have done both squats & deadlifts and have to agree with you these do get the heart ticking and you build up a sweat. In time will do these, only problem the gym doesn't have a squat rack. It does have a leg press and a smith machine but I hear contrasting views on smith machine squats. Are hack or front squats better with a smith machine?

Truss...

Which is best...Dumbell Flyes or Pec Dec?

I prefer pec dec...............But i did Flyes for years...........

Just means I can concentrate on the muscle and then fight the last negative safely...when I'm positively spent...

There isn't a best Mate.............It's what works for you..

Ive always done DB flyes but ive never ever felt anything good from them. Never a burn or anything. Purely out of chance I did some pec dec sets last week and I got a whole different feeling. It was great. Ill never do flyes again.

Like yourself Geordiefalcon I always did DB flys, whilst raging against the machine, can't remember if I got a burn or indeed in the right places, but since using the pec deck I can really feel it, also the same with the chest machine, its the type you sit upright, seems to really work.

Another interesting thing for me with regards to machines, since taking up weights about a month ago and having an injury, using machines it doesn't antagonize the injury. Push exercises are fine but pull exercises were giving me problems, will have to test the water again soon.

Bodybuilding is all about time under tension..........

If you feel it more on a pec dec and you're sore............It's got to be good..