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I think this is something we need to watch from the All Blacks at this WC

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aucklandlaurie
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I think this is something we need to watch from the All Blacks at this WC Empty I think this is something we need to watch from the All Blacks at this WC

Post by LordDowlais Fri 03 Apr 2015, 10:21 am

Very intellegent play by the Cheifs in the S15, I suspect the All Blacks will be trying this out:-

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-chiefs-super-rugby-tactics-2013507-Mar2015/


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Post by disneychilly Fri 03 Apr 2015, 10:49 am

Dave Rennie/Joe Schmidt axis in 2018 for the ABs. Sounds tasty...

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Post by SecretFly Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:18 am

If they do, they'll be potentially burned. There are plays available that can make it look pretty damned stupid if opponent coaches are ready for it.

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Post by Gwlad Fri 03 Apr 2015, 8:27 pm

Yet another stupid attempt by SH to change the game to league. Don't contest the breakdown, they aren't even playing rugby anymore. Soon we will be playing Sevens with 15 players on the pitch. IMO they should be penalized for not competing - that rule doesn't exist yet but hell, it seems we are re writing the rule book.

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Post by disneychilly Fri 03 Apr 2015, 9:21 pm

Diddums. You want Ireland to be pinged for innovation in how to defend a maul too? If you don't try to stay ahead of the game and therefore rule book you'll get left behind. Think of something more original than using a giant 12 to bust the gainline and you'll find you can not only play rugby, but better rugby. Those guys have been doing it better than yours for as long as we all can remember, don't talk crap about them not playing the same sport you are just because you're coming off second best mate.

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Post by Guest Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:10 pm

disneychilly wrote:Diddums. You want Ireland to be pinged for innovation in how to defend a maul too? If you don't try to stay ahead of the game and therefore rule book you'll get left behind. Think of something more original than using a giant 12 to bust the gainline and you'll find you can not only play rugby, but better rugby. Those guys have been doing it better than yours for as long as we all can remember, don't talk crap about them not playing the same sport you are just because you're coming off second best mate.

Ma'a Nonu last World Cup?! We're learning from you. Thanks.

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Post by Notch Fri 03 Apr 2015, 11:42 pm

There's no need for any additional penalties. This is not without risk, it will result in penalties against the side that chooses not to engage when referees rule they have. Look at how little engagement is necessary for the referee to call it as a ruck in the first example. The slightest hint of engagement is all referees need... I can't see it being reliable enough to be used very often.
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Post by Guest Sat 04 Apr 2015, 1:57 am

Clever. Shame the refs couldn't get their head around it and blew up penalties. Typical referee attitude. If it looks dodgy it must be dodgy. Griff, the 2015 Maa Nonu model is far more sophisticated than the 2003 model, keep up mate Wink

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Post by Gwlad Sat 04 Apr 2015, 5:09 am

Griff wrote:
disneychilly wrote:Diddums. You want Ireland to be pinged for innovation in how to defend a maul too? If you don't try to stay ahead of the game and therefore rule book you'll get left behind. Think of something more original than using a giant 12 to bust the gainline and you'll find you can not only play rugby, but better rugby. Those guys have been doing it better than yours for as long as we all can remember, don't talk crap about them not playing the same sport you are just because you're coming off second best mate.

Ma'a Nonu last World Cup?! We're learning from you. Thanks.

laughing laughing

If anyone else had come up with this Hansen et al would have been banging on about how isn't rugby as we know it.

NZ rugby fans, all the same, all of the time.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 04 Apr 2015, 6:51 am

Gwlad wrote:
Griff wrote:
disneychilly wrote:Diddums. You want Ireland to be pinged for innovation in how to defend a maul too? If you don't try to stay ahead of the game and therefore rule book you'll get left behind. Think of something more original than using a giant 12 to bust the gainline and you'll find you can not only play rugby, but better rugby. Those guys have been doing it better than yours for as long as we all can remember, don't talk crap about them not playing the same sport you are just because you're coming off second best mate.

Ma'a Nonu last World Cup?! We're learning from you. Thanks.

laughing laughing

If anyone else had come up with this Hansen et al would have been banging on about how isn't rugby as we know it.

NZ rugby fans, all the same, all of the time.

Trouble is we'll never really know Gwlad, the chances of that happening pretty remote.

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Post by disneychilly Sat 04 Apr 2015, 7:14 am

Sonny Bill Williams actually. For offloading to bust rush defences-nothing to do with the gainline although he's big enough to break that as well as Roberts. You think Nonu was the first? Fail.

Don't make stupid generalisations or assumptions there Gwlad. That's beneath you. Hansen hasn't criticised the Irish maul defence. They're probably trying to work out how to do it themselves. Imitation is the best form of flattery but innovation instead of imitation makes you a much more threatening prospect.

If your approach is to not move with the times and innovate within the laws but rather criticise the sport for being different due to teams taking new approaches then wow no wonder Wales have such a pants record against teams that traditionally do innovate.

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Post by Guest Sat 04 Apr 2015, 10:16 am

"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time". Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

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Post by Gwlad Sat 04 Apr 2015, 4:33 pm

ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

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Post by Guest Sat 04 Apr 2015, 4:43 pm

Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

But you're the one crying mate so a big old poor diddums right back at ya, you wacky old Welshman you

Cry


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Post by Gwlad Sat 04 Apr 2015, 4:48 pm

ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

But you're the one crying mate so a big old poor diddums right back at ya, you wacky old Welshman you

Cry


Crying hardly but nice try

I fully expect this sort of thing from NZ. Just lamenting the tendency to try and change the game. It's a fad and there is nothing vaguely clever about it, just ruins the game.

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Post by Guest Sat 04 Apr 2015, 5:03 pm

Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

But you're the one crying mate so a big old poor diddums right back at ya, you wacky old Welshman you

Cry


Crying hardly but nice try

I fully expect this sort of thing from NZ. Just lamenting the tendency to try and change the game. It's a fad and there is nothing vaguely clever about it, just ruins the game.

Well mate, the joke really is on you. Because you mention NZ rugby trying to change the game of rugby into rugby league by being innovative. Yet you come from Wales. The home town of the most one dimensional game plan going around in international rugby and a style that is most similar to league.

Thoughts on that Gwlad?

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Post by Gwlad Sat 04 Apr 2015, 5:18 pm

ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

But you're the one crying mate so a big old poor diddums right back at ya, you wacky old Welshman you

Cry


Crying hardly but nice try

I fully expect this sort of thing from NZ. Just lamenting the tendency to try and change the game. It's a fad and there is nothing vaguely clever about it, just ruins the game.

Well mate, the joke really is on you. Because you mention NZ rugby trying to change the game of rugby into rugby league by being innovative. Yet you come from Wales. The home town of the most one dimensional game plan going around in international rugby and a style that is most similar to league.

Thoughts on that Gwlad?

One dimensional because you think a carrying 12 is the same as league? This is the stock response about 'Warrenball' and is frankly rubbish.

The main concern about Union being eroded as a code is the erosion of the scrum, rucking and the maul, it has nothing to do with a 12 carrying into contact to suck in defenders and cross the gainline, all 12s do it and Ma'a Nonu was one of the best. This stupidity at the breakdown won't last.

Not sure you even understand the difference between the 2 codes, but again nice try.

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Post by Guest Sat 04 Apr 2015, 5:58 pm

Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
ebop wrote:"NZ rugby fans, all the same, all the time".  Gwlad, nice one mate. You're Welsh right?

Well spotted, and Diddums. thumbsup

But you're the one crying mate so a big old poor diddums right back at ya, you wacky old Welshman you

Cry


Crying hardly but nice try

I fully expect this sort of thing from NZ. Just lamenting the tendency to try and change the game. It's a fad and there is nothing vaguely clever about it, just ruins the game.

Well mate, the joke really is on you. Because you mention NZ rugby trying to change the game of rugby into rugby league by being innovative. Yet you come from Wales. The home town of the most one dimensional game plan going around in international rugby and a style that is most similar to league.

Thoughts on that Gwlad?

One dimensional because you think a carrying 12 is the same as league? This is the stock response about 'Warrenball' and is frankly rubbish.

The main concern about Union being eroded as a code is the erosion of the scrum, rucking and the maul, it has nothing to do with a 12 carrying into contact to suck in defenders and cross the gainline, all 12s do it and Ma'a Nonu was one of the best. This stupidity at the breakdown won't last.

Not sure you even understand the difference between the 2 codes, but again nice try.

Yes, I do understand the difference, nice try.

Good day to you sir thumbsup

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Post by FecklessRogue Sat 04 Apr 2015, 6:53 pm

New Zealand ruining the game? I think New Zealand have been showing the world how rugby should be played for decades. They have the skill, the tactical nous and the warrior spirit. They have it all and the rest of us should be taking notes, not whinging.
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Post by broadlandboy Sat 04 Apr 2015, 8:58 pm

Like all new ideas countermeasures will be found.
Would it be susceptible to pick & go?
Does a player have to touch the ball to be considered playing it or could standing close waveing their hands be "playing the ball"?
Could it be considered obstruction if they block a player trying to get to the ball?

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Post by Gwlad Sat 04 Apr 2015, 9:28 pm

FecklessRogue wrote:New Zealand ruining the game? I think New Zealand have been showing the world how rugby should be played for decades. They have the skill, the tactical nous and the warrior spirit. They have it all and the rest of us should be taking notes, not whinging.

Whinging is one of the skills they have perfected, whinging about protecting their cushy PI player base, whinging about lack of creativity in the north or about refereeing decisions. If they aren't choking they're whinging.

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Post by emack2 Sun 05 Apr 2015, 12:58 am

For the record the RUCK [won`t justify the mess we have now with the name]was effectively
banned by the NH prior to first RWC 1987.The law concerning the RUCK was when 2 or more
players BOUND over the ball constitutes a RUCK.
An NZ evolution either side of the WW 2 by Young and Old VIc[Cavanagh]was a loose version
of the NZ 2-3-2 Scrum and 5/8 system.
Had a life of about 40 years was back bone of NZ play,number 12 Ron Elvidge was used in
the crash ball role in the Great Otago periods 1946-50.
ANY law changes need NH approval as they have more IRB votes than the SH.

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Post by Gwlad Sun 05 Apr 2015, 1:51 am

just change the rules…when 3rd player from either side joins in then he can contest for the ball (as can carrier and tackler if on their feet after release)

When 4th player, from either side joins, a ruck is formed and hands off. Back foot then applies.

No doubt NZ will have something to complain about for the rest of rugby eternity.

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Post by MMaaxx Sun 05 Apr 2015, 10:34 am

Gwlad you are consistently lowering the tone and quality of threads on 606v2 of late. You seem very bitter and angry for some reason.

You write like someone who has never played the game at a decent level but rather been forced to live vicariously through the team / players you support. Hence your aggressive tone and overly sensitive nature. Those with real playing experience do not get so touchy and defensive but rather debate as sportsman and equals.

Just an observation. Have a good Easter.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 05 Apr 2015, 4:02 pm

Thanks for the link LD. A good bit of analysis there. Was there anything similar with Ireland's win against SA?

Like the 13 man Welsh lineout I like it when rugby goes outside the box in terms of thinking.

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Post by Gwlad Sun 05 Apr 2015, 5:21 pm

MMaaxx wrote:Gwlad you are consistently lowering the tone and quality of threads on 606v2 of late. You seem very bitter and angry for some reason.

You write like someone who has never played the game at a decent level but rather been forced to live vicariously through the team / players you support. Hence your aggressive tone and overly sensitive nature. Those with real playing experience do not get so touchy and defensive but rather debate as sportsman and equals.

Just an observation. Have a good Easter.

And you write like someone who is clearly deranged. So, you can tell what level of rugby someone plays at from your perception of their level of perceived bitterness? You must be an SA fan to be that far from the mark

'Those with real playing experience….blah blah' I assume from that you rate yourself as someone who did play at a 'decent level' Wow, I am so impressed and your level of rugby achievement really comes across in your posts.

I'm not touchy or defensive, i simply like taking on the received wisdom of arrogance and BS on this site largely from England and NZ fans with a healthy bit of SA to moderate it!

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Post by MMaaxx Sun 05 Apr 2015, 6:57 pm

Keep your panties in Gwlad, you're just proving me right.

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Post by Cyril Sun 05 Apr 2015, 7:14 pm

I see Gwlad is making friends again.

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Post by Gwlad Mon 06 Apr 2015, 2:24 am

MMaaxx wrote:Keep your panties in Gwlad, you're just proving me right.

Max, being stupid is not a virtue. Quit trying to make it one.

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Post by Jimpy Tue 07 Apr 2015, 11:32 am

I never cease to be in awe of these Welsh boys. They've redefined irony and seem to take it to new levels each week clap clap clap

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Post by The Saint Tue 07 Apr 2015, 3:55 pm

Jimpy wrote:I never cease to be in awe of these Welsh boys. They've redefined irony and seem to take it to new levels each week clap clap clap

Yawn, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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Post by Jimpy Tue 07 Apr 2015, 4:08 pm

Ah... I see Gwlad's pet chimp is back.

I know why you go around together you know. So that if someone tells you a joke, one can laugh whilst the other one thinks about it.

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Post by The Saint Tue 07 Apr 2015, 6:15 pm

Jimpy wrote:Ah... I see Gwlad's pet chimp is back.

I know why you go around together you know. So that if someone tells you a joke, one can laugh whilst the other one thinks about it.


Firstly let's just clear something up - the only thing I laugh at is you. Your posts are just so poor it's hilarious. Secondly, the term chimp is probably best reserved for someone not talking about rugby, but posting crap posts aimed it insulting collective groups of people whilst hiding cowardly behind a keyboard. I think you fit the bill there. And for those who remember you from the old site know that you have nothing and are full of rubbish - so it's also quite funny to see you desperately keep trying.

Also, you're using the irony and pet chimp lines a bit too often lately. You used them last week, and the week before...on the same posters. I'd go away and work on my material if I were you, because with such sh*t posts you aren't going to rile people up thumbsup.

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Post by Taylorman Tue 07 Apr 2015, 8:17 pm

Lost my pet chimp just the other day...just knew one day he'd finally run up the wrong tree... monkey Sad

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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 07 Apr 2015, 10:30 pm


Cunning little critter, he was trying to make a monkeys uncle out of you Tman.

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Post by The Saint Tue 07 Apr 2015, 10:31 pm

Bubbles?

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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 07 Apr 2015, 10:50 pm

Rugby's biggest problem is that there are too many vague laws in its rulebook and every time innovation occurs, to combat this Rugby's answer is to then write another rule which in turn adds to the confusion, and so it goes on.

In twenty or thirty years time Rugby will be like Yachting, the game or regatta takes place then the teams/parties will all go off to court to see who won.

Innovation has a lot to answer for. Bad innovation.

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Post by SecretFly Tue 07 Apr 2015, 10:53 pm

Oh now we got the racists insulting Bubbles. Just because he looks like a chimp doesn't mean he hadn't the brain to write all Micko's best lyrics.... and choreograph all his best moves.

Leave Bubbles out of it. A f**king genius was that kid.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Tue 07 Apr 2015, 10:58 pm


Did Micko write " Im forever blowing Bubbles"?

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Post by SecretFly Tue 07 Apr 2015, 11:24 pm

Genius don't come cheap is all I'll say.................

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Post by TJ Wed 08 Apr 2015, 7:35 am

FecklessRogue wrote:New Zealand ruining the game? I think New Zealand have been showing the world how rugby should be played for decades. They have the skill, the tactical nous and the warrior spirit. They have it all and the rest of us should be taking notes, not whinging.

Agreed

How is this any different to standing off when the opposition try to set a maul? Easily countered as well this tactic - simply send the 9 off running forward rather than passing back - the players who have gone round behind the catcher have just taken themselves out of the game

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Post by Jimpy Wed 08 Apr 2015, 8:53 am

The Saint wrote:
Jimpy wrote:Ah... I see Gwlad's pet chimp is back.

I know why you go around together you know. So that if someone tells you a joke, one can laugh whilst the other one thinks about it.


Firstly let's just clear something up - the only thing I laugh at is you. Your posts are just so poor it's hilarious. Secondly, the term chimp is probably best reserved for someone not talking about rugby, but posting crap posts aimed it insulting collective groups of people whilst hiding cowardly behind a keyboard. I think you fit the bill there. And for those who remember you from the old site know that you have nothing and are full of rubbish - so it's also quite funny to see you desperately keep trying.  

Also, you're using the irony and pet chimp lines a bit too often lately. You used them last week, and the week before...on the same posters. I'd go away and work on my material if I were you, because with such sh*t posts you aren't going to rile people up thumbsup.

I think this is something we need to watch from the All Blacks at this WC 1347041234


Last edited by Jimpy on Wed 08 Apr 2015, 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by chewed_mintie Wed 08 Apr 2015, 8:55 am

Ha, had to check the video to see what was so controversial!

In all seriousness, South Africa were doing something similar back in 2004 when they won the 3N. They didn't commit to the ruck but flooded the area around to pressurise the scrum half.

The Chiefs have just taken it a step further.....standing on the shoulders of giants

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 09 Apr 2015, 1:43 pm

Surely a supporting player at the breakdown just picks up the ball and makes the easy yards. Or the tackled player (who has been released by the tackler), gets back to his feet, picks up the ball and goes up the gut of the defensive line.

The initial momentum from that pick-n-go can easily cause the two defensive pillars to make contact in the next breakdown area and you've reset your offside line a couple of yards down the field. Now a flanker standing in front of the outhalf is offside and a cheeky scrumhalf can make a wholly show of a player being 'miles offside' and interferring with the subsequent pass.

Only issue here would be that the realisation of what the defense has done has to be recognised by the tackled player or someone at the breakdown that the pick-n-go is the option to take (and to take quickly).

It's a 'new' tactic the same as any 'new' tactic (tried and figured out in the 60-70s but people of today have forgotten).

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Post by TJ Thu 09 Apr 2015, 2:00 pm

Yes bandwagon - that would appear to be the best counter tactic.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 09 Apr 2015, 2:47 pm

These little tricks can only come maybe about once in every five games....to gain the advantage of surprise. Then they have their place. But you try these things too often and you'll get burned - badly.

This here trick might be tried once at the World Cup. Alert coaches will then realise "AHA! - so it's made an appearance! Okay, Plan B612 should take care of that. Inform our players to be ready"


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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:These little tricks can only come maybe about once in every five games....to gain the advantage of surprise.  Then they have their place.  But you try these things too often and you'll get burned - badly.

This here trick might be tried once at the World Cup.  Alert coaches will then realise "AHA! - so it's made an appearance!  Okay, Plan B612 should take care of that.  Inform our players to be ready"


I'd love to see it happen to Ireland - to see what Schmidt has to counter it.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 09 Apr 2015, 3:37 pm

I hope Schmidt knows about it!!!! Someone send him a telegraph! He's off with his little boy not thinking of rugby right now. Hopefully some of his staff will be vigilant for him.

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