Research into the use of the time violation rule - NEW petition expessing concern about it's inconsistant use

by hawkeye Sat 25 Apr 2015, 10:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

I am doing a little research into the application of the time violation rule. Players are meant to take no more than 25 seconds between points. If they take longer they are meant to be given a warning on the first violation and on subsequent ones lose a first serve. It is proving difficult to find information on the number of penalties handed out and if the rule is being enforced correctly. If anyone is interested maybe they could help?

I would like to know of any instances when players have received a warning or loss of first serve and what the score was at the time.

How often players go over 25 seconds without being penalized.

The first question could be perhaps partly answered from memory and partly from noting new incidents

The second question could be answered by watching parts of any match and timing a few points. I've found this easy to do by using the timer that appears when you rewind or slow live TV as it shows the seconds but a watch or clock would work fine. According to the ATP rule book timing should start when the ball goes out of play and stop when the ball is struck for the next point. I have gathered some information but it's impossible to watch all matches so any information would be useful.

Smile

NEW petition expressing concern about the inconsistent use of the time violation rule

Time limits for tennis players? Time for a response - a request to the ATP & ITF

We want to bring to your urgent attention the fact that growing numbers of tennis fans are raising serious concerns about the inconsistent application of the Time Violation Warning rule in ATP and ITF tournaments. This is beginning to spoil our enjoyment of this exceptional sport.

Umpires are currently issuing warnings randomly and arbitrarily, with some players who persistently go over the time limit not being penalised, and others regularly being given a warning.

In addition, it has been noted that the first warning of a match is suddenly given at a crucial point in a game - e.g. at break point - even when the time has been exceeded previously. We are concerned that this practice could significantly alter the outcome of a match.

We, the undersigned, urge you to find a way of regularising the application of the rule and respectfully request a formal response to the specific concerns highlighted in this petition.

Thank you.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/time-limits-for-tennis-players-time-for-a

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 4:25 pm

bogbrush wrote:Hmm, so the ATP chairman circles the wagons around Nadal. What a shock!!

Meanwhile the World #1 condemns it, says he's never done it and refutes any suggestion it's regular.

Hmmm or perhaps he is telling the truth? After all we now know Nadal has done it and Stan admits to doing it so that is two players alone from the top ten. That says to me it is commonplace.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 4:27 pm

In any case are the media going to report if a lesser known player has asked to not be umpired by a certain player? Of course not.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 4:28 pm

Now this is R E A L L Y funny ...suddenly there are wheels on Novak's bandwagon... he is suddenly the paragon of virtue.... HEY SOCAL... ARE YOU THERE ????? Laugh

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 4:36 pm

Is this really such a big deal?
If you dont go into this with any unrealistic expectations about Nadal as a person, this isnt unusual. He is by almost all accounts, including Roger a very nice bloke and a great sportsman.

He IS however a human, just a bloke, he gets annoyed, angry even, clearly the shorts thing hit a fuse, HE felt the umpire did something wrong and has complained, he isnt the only guy for this. Same for Novak, has become a model sportman and the games worthy flagbrearer, but Doha showed hes still a guy. Even le Rog has sworn at umpires

The ideas Rafas some angel, or some nasty villain who pretends to have OCD or whatever else FB comments like to say are all way off the mark, and show a bias agaisnt the player not the topic, and its making neutral conversation very hard.

by kingraf Wed 27 May 2015, 4:37 pm

Yeah, I probably picked the wrong day to pop into the tennis forum...

Same time next week?

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 4:38 pm

kingraf wrote:Yeah, I probably picked the wrong day to pop into the tennis forum...

Same time next week?

Check out the RG thread, le Monf is in a real humdinger

by hawkeye Wed 27 May 2015, 4:39 pm

bogbrush wrote:

Meanwhile the World #1 condemns it, says he's never done it and refutes any suggestion it's regular.

This is true. I have never seen Djokovic having to change his shorts in full view of millions (or however many spectators may have been watching) whilst an Umpire looks on and laughs. He would be wise to read the ATP rule book to find out what he could do about it if he was. Although Djokovic appears to be quite lucky with his choice of Umpires. On the whole they tend not to not understand Serbian, look the other way when he smashes raquets or court furniture and forget they have stop watches when he is serving Laugh

by Johnyjeep Wed 27 May 2015, 4:42 pm

How is anyone a Rafa hater for saying that "asking to have an individual not umpire their matches (for any period of time, short or long) because they correctly enforced the rules is setting a dangerous precedent for the sport?"

That's using spin akin to some of the press reports we've seen admonished.

Similarly, if he did request this (which he said he did) and the ATP have agreed (which it appears they have), does this not demonstrate that the ATP are not "out to get" Nadal (to use PC language) which is what this whole thread is attempting (either explicitly or implicitly) to show?

It's making zero sense. The argument presented by a Nadal fan to defend one incident/claim refutes multiple posts (from another Nadal fan) trying to prove that very thing exists (which granted, it doesn't exist).

It's the irony I'm enjoying the most.

by kingraf Wed 27 May 2015, 4:47 pm

Johnyjeep wrote:How is anyone a Rafa hater for saying that "asking to have an individual not umpire their matches (for any period of time, short or long) because they correctly enforced the rules is setting a dangerous precedent for the sport?"

Well, it isn't actually unprecedented.

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 4:47 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Matchpoint, I think Haddie-Nuff is right and can't be blamed surely for quoting correctly the facts. Rafa did not confirm the word "ban" you are just quoting journalist spin. Anyway we are arguing over increasingly less and less. The distinction is not THAT important.

However, in the future let's all try and quote player's quotes in quotation marks, rather than journalist version of it. I know I myself was guilty of parroting back what the Telegraph said - several pages ago.

Pls refer to my post above at 15:31. As far as I'm aware we're discussing Nadal and an umpire. It's not about HN being right or wrong. So why would I blame her? Laugh

As I pointed out earlier, I'm interested in all sides of the story, not just nadal's words. Isn't that what people do when you want to gather as much info as you can, both primary and secondary sources,in order to establish an informed opinion? Unfortunately, nadal's "request" IMPLIES that he sought to ban a certain umpire. That's what may be written in the press. Of course, one can choose to ignore or believe it. It's all up to the individual reader. That's why we call this a free country. One does have the freedom to form an independent opinion regardless of what the original source says.

So in any event, nothing wrong with "journalist version." We're free to react to what we think is good or bad journalism as we like. If you don't like the word ban being used in a news release, why take it out on me? Go after the journalist who used this word, that's all.

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 4:47 pm

Johnyjeep wrote:How is anyone a Rafa hater for saying that "asking to have an individual not umpire their matches (for any period of time, short or long) because they correctly enforced the rules is setting a dangerous precedent for the sport?"

That's using spin akin to some of the press reports we've seen admonished.

Similarly, if he did request this (which he said he did) and the ATP have agreed (which it appears they have), does this not demonstrate that the ATP are not "out to get" Nadal (to use PC language) which is what this whole thread is attempting (either explicitly or implicitly) to show?

It's making zero sense. The argument presented by a Nadal fan to defend one incident/claim refutes multiple posts (from another Nadal fan) trying to prove that very thing exists (which granted, it doesn't exist).

It's the irony I'm enjoying the most.

Johnny, noones called anyone a rafa hater, just that there seems to be unrealistic expectation on him from both sides here.

As a mod team, we are trying VERY hard here, from making this all about Nadal, perhaps someone could give us somethings about another player, or more generally. Ill reiterate JHM's message to keep this calm and respectful.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 4:53 pm

I re-iterate that we now know that two of the world's top ten have asked for an umpire not to umpire their matches so that tells me it is far more commonplace than people seem to think.

by hawkeye Wed 27 May 2015, 4:54 pm

Getting back on topic. Any time violations given out today? I wonder how often players went over 20 seconds chin

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 4:57 pm

Matchpoint wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Matchpoint, I think Haddie-Nuff is right and can't be blamed surely for quoting correctly the facts. Rafa did not confirm the word "ban" you are just quoting journalist spin. Anyway we are arguing over increasingly less and less. The distinction is not THAT important.

However, in the future let's all try and quote player's quotes in quotation marks, rather than journalist version of it. I know I myself was guilty of parroting back what the Telegraph said - several pages ago.

Pls refer to my post above at 15:31. As far as I'm aware we're discussing Nadal and an umpire. It's not about HN being right or wrong. So why would I blame her?

As I pointed out earlier, I'm interested in all sides of the story, not just nadal's words. Isn't that what people do when you want to gather as much info as you can, both primary and secondary sources,in order to establish an informed opinion? Unfortunately, nadal's "request" IMPLIES that he sought to ban a certain umpire. That's what may be written in the press. Of course, one can choose to ignore or believe it. It's all up to the individual reader. That's why we call this a free country. One does have the freedom to form an independent opinion regardless of what the original source says.

So in any event, nothing wrong with "journalist version." We're free to react to what we think is good or bad journalism as we like. If you don't like the word ban being used in a news release, why take it out on me? Go after the journalist who used this word, that's all.

In which case if it is your intention to distort the truth, and there has been enough of that on here already and that your judgement is made only because you want to believe what the journalists tell you ( because it fits with your criteria )frankly I have nothing to add,. Your biased opinions are of no consequence to me anyway.. so if you have any meat left on that particular bone I suggest you throw it to the wolves who are now getting desperate to be fed with more rubbish.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 4:59 pm

hawkeye wrote:Getting back on topic. Any time violations given out today? I wonder how often players went over 20 seconds

Well the only match I had a little time to notice ive already said TWICE.. but did anyone comment ??? don't be silly

Nishikori..saving BP took 32 secs

TV??? Laugh

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 5:00 pm

Come on guys lets cool it. Lets be honest without a proper reliable first hand source we dont really know exactly what happened. a journalists word is just as spinned as Rafas might be. All this bickering therefore cannot possibly, go anywhere.

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 5:01 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:I re-iterate that we now know that two of the world's top ten have asked for an umpire not to umpire their matches so that tells me it is far more commonplace than people seem to think.

If you got a link with a direct quote from Warwrinka himself (not from some nobody's Twitter page with questionable credibility) putting foreword his request to the ATP as Nadal did, could you please share it here? Thanks.

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 5:01 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
hawkeye wrote:Getting back on topic. Any time violations given out today? I wonder how often players went over 20 seconds

Well the only match I had a little time to notice ive already said TWICE.. but did anyone comment ??? don't be silly

Nishikori..saving BP took 32 secs

TV???

Okok ill answer this one.

No he wasnt given one, thats not unusual, people arent given them often for taking that long anyway, thats what weve found out. Id LIKE to find out more about how consistently this is enforced, so can we maybe move onto that?

by Calder106 Wed 27 May 2015, 5:02 pm

Quote from the article CC linked earlier from Simon Higson "Requests such as this are not uncommon, either from the player or the umpire."'

Would seem it's not all about Rafa.

by hawkeye Wed 27 May 2015, 5:06 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
hawkeye wrote:Getting back on topic. Any time violations given out today? I wonder how often players went over 20 seconds

Well the only match I had a little time to notice ive already said TWICE.. but did anyone comment ??? don't be silly

Nishikori..saving BP took 32 secs

TV???

Shocking

I am going to email Simon Briggs about this. Check the Telegraph tomorrow I'm sure he will have called Nishikori out as making a mockery of the rule book. Is there any evidence to prove that Nishikori didn't handpick the Umpire chin

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 5:07 pm

temporary21 wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:
hawkeye wrote:Getting back on topic. Any time violations given out today? I wonder how often players went over 20 seconds

Well the only match I had a little time to notice ive already said TWICE.. but did anyone comment ??? don't be silly

Nishikori..saving BP took 32 secs

TV???
Okok ill answer this one.

No he wasnt given one, thats not unusual, people arent given them often for taking that long anyway, thats what weve found out. Id LIKE to find out more about how consistently this is enforced, so can we maybe move onto that?

In fairness temp I think HE and I have made several attempts to do so.. without much success

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 5:08 pm

Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I re-iterate that we now know that two of the world's top ten have asked for an umpire not to umpire their matches so that tells me it is far more commonplace than people seem to think.

If you got a link with a direct quote from Warwrinka himself (not from some nobody's Twitter page with questionable credibility) putting foreword his request to the ATP as Nadal did, could you please share it here? Thanks.

No point as you have already made up your mind on the subject - still the ATP themselves say these requests are far from unusual (see the ESPN link I posted earlier). thumbsup

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 5:09 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
Matchpoint wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Matchpoint, I think Haddie-Nuff is right and can't be blamed surely for quoting correctly the facts. Rafa did not confirm the word "ban" you are just quoting journalist spin. Anyway we are arguing over increasingly less and less. The distinction is not THAT important.

However, in the future let's all try and quote player's quotes in quotation marks, rather than journalist version of it. I know I myself was guilty of parroting back what the Telegraph said - several pages ago.

Pls refer to my post above at 15:31. As far as I'm aware we're discussing Nadal and an umpire. It's not about HN being right or wrong. So why would I blame her?

As I pointed out earlier, I'm interested in all sides of the story, not just nadal's words. Isn't that what people do when you want to gather as much info as you can, both primary and secondary sources,in order to establish an informed opinion? Unfortunately, nadal's "request" IMPLIES that he sought to ban a certain umpire. That's what may be written in the press. Of course, one can choose to ignore or believe it. It's all up to the individual reader. That's why we call this a free country. One does have the freedom to form an independent opinion regardless of what the original source says.

So in any event, nothing wrong with "journalist version." We're free to react to what we think is good or bad journalism as we like. If you don't like the word ban being used in a news release, why take it out on me? Go after the journalist who used this word, that's all.

In which case if it is your intention to distort the truth, and there has been enough of that on here already and that your judgement is made only because you want to believe what the journalists tell you ( because it fits with your criteria )frankly I have nothing to add,. Your biased opinions are of no consequence to me anyway.. so if you have any meat left on that particular bone I suggest you throw it to the wolves who are now getting desperate to be fed with more rubbish.

I think you should let HB reply. I'm not very good at handling incoherent post like this one, sorry.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 5:12 pm

JHM has already posted a transcript (originally in French) of what Stan said... I found it makes much more sense to read all the posts rather than the ones you randomly select.

by hawkeye Wed 27 May 2015, 5:13 pm

temporary21 wrote:

No he wasnt given one, thats not unusual, people arent given them often for taking that long anyway, thats what weve found out. Id LIKE to find out more about how consistently this is enforced, so can we maybe move onto that?

Yes

That was one of my questions in the Op. If anyone sees a tv please report it here. Who it was given to and at what point in the match. Have any been given out at all during the FO this year chin

Matchpoint if you want to talk about Nadals shorts and Bernardos why don't you make your own thread about it? It's about time this one got back on topic.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 5:15 pm

I think you should let HB reply. I'm not very good at handling incoherent post like this one, sorry.

so my efforts didn't go in vain Yahoo

Research into the use of the time violation rule - NEW petition expessing concern about it's inconsistant use - Page 15 3933776953

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 5:18 pm

hawkeye wrote:
temporary21 wrote:

No he wasnt given one, thats not unusual, people arent given them often for taking that long anyway, thats what weve found out. Id LIKE to find out more about how consistently this is enforced, so can we maybe move onto that?

Yes That was one of my questions in the Op. If anyone sees a tv please report it here. Who it was given to and at what point in the match. Have any been given out at all during the FO this year

Matchpoint if you want to talk about Nadals shorts and Bernardos why don't you make your own thread about it? It's about time this one got back on topic.

I know of only 1

Us open 2011, third round Cilic was 4-5 bp down and serving, he got a tv inbetween his first and second serves and double faulted. This was long before the rule got enforced more.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 5:21 pm

A women's match yesterday, I can't remember which, there was a time violation warning in it. May have been Petra Kivitova match. Headscratch

by bogbrush Wed 27 May 2015, 5:30 pm

So it's fair to say that there's no dispute that

- Nadal exerted influence over whether this Umpire officiates in his matches (acknowledging that he deeply respects him and thinks a lot of him both as a human being and as an Umpire).
- Djokovic has never done this, doesn't think it happens at all frequently and roundly condemns it.
- We know that Jimmy Connors did it once and he was a great sportsman.

Much else seems in dispute.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 5:35 pm

Ahh well temp.. no one can say you didn't try.. Bet you would rather have toothache Wink

by bogbrush Wed 27 May 2015, 5:38 pm

Great, now the facts are established we can move on.

Phew!

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 5:40 pm

bogbrush wrote:Great, now the facts are established we can move on.

Phew!

Yes the ATP say it happens a lot so yes that confirms things far more unless Novak has hacked the ATP's email account and is party to all requests. If you feel so enraged BB and feel this is really a one-off then fire off a complaint to them.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 5:41 pm

The rest of us did !! some time ago Research into the use of the time violation rule - NEW petition expessing concern about it's inconsistant use - Page 15 3933776953

by bogbrush Wed 27 May 2015, 5:48 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Great, now the facts are established we can move on.

Phew!

Yes the ATP say it happens a lot so yes that confirms things far more unless Novak has hacked the ATP's email account and is party to all requests. If you feel so enraged BB and feel this is really a one-off then fire off a complaint to them.

No, the ATP didn't - one guy did and I think those of us experienced in this sort of thing recognise the collective interest of the ATP in defending their man.

I'll leave firing off pointless notes to you - it's really not my thing.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 5:54 pm

bogbrush wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
bogbrush wrote:Great, now the facts are established we can move on.

Phew!

Yes the ATP say it happens a lot so yes that confirms things far more unless Novak has hacked the ATP's email account and is party to all requests. If you feel so enraged BB and feel this is really a one-off then fire off a complaint to them.
No, the ATP didn't - one guy did and I think those of us experienced in this sort of thing recognise the collective interest of the ATP in defending their man.

I'll leave firing off pointless notes to you - it's really not my thing.

Hmm shall we await his dismissal then for posting out lies in an email? I'd assume it to be a dismissable offence to post out falsehoods to the media would it not? Anyway here is a slightly different slant on it with French Tennis saying they had no request specifically for the French Open:-

http://www1.skysports.com/tennis/news/12040/9866406/8203novak-djokovic-says-rafael-nadal-chair-umpire-request-unfair

by temporary21 Wed 27 May 2015, 6:23 pm

Still no idea whether the request was heard, or even if it was in some way a vicious request. what we do know is that this isnt a one off, Novak hasnt done it, but is it really worth all this?

by biugo Wed 27 May 2015, 6:32 pm

Aren't the TV networks or IBM keeping some track on the time between points?
As no one is making research into the TV, except Temp21, maybe at least the likes of IBM could get out some data. They probably count the effective time of play - getting the average time between points is easy.
I recall a poster (no idea who) posted a screenshot of a USO match between Djoko and Nadal, with the prompter below stating: Average time between points: 31s (ND), 35s (RN)... Shocked

(keeping in mind limit would normally be 20s)
Certainly this kind of data could be given for all matches in the IBM slamtracker

by Born Slippy Wed 27 May 2015, 6:57 pm

Ok, a few comments on this:

1. Rafa's threat/statement to Barnardes was made after receiving the TVs versus Fognini. His comments at the time were quite clear that he was going to request Barnardes stopped umpiring him because he put more time pressure on him that other umpires. No mention of it during the course of the shorts incident.

2. Even if that was the reason, then it seems to me Barnardes was following the rules. Its like coming out without your tennis racquet - you risk being defaulted if you aren't ready to play in time. Why should any player be entitled to request an umpire be banned for enforcing the rules?

3. The fact players can request umpires be removed is deeply concerning, whether that is Rafa or Stan. They should be entitled to complain if an umpire is poor and the ATP should discipline the umpire if necessary. However, in no circumstances should a player be able to avoid an umpire. There is too much risk of players avoiding those umpires who are more stringent on certain rules - as appears to be the case here.

I'm very interested in the Wawrinka request. Any more details gratefully received.

3.

by bogbrush Wed 27 May 2015, 7:03 pm

Seriously, and all banter aside, Born Slippy is spot on here.

My main concern is with point 3, and the absolutely absurd idea that competitors should think it's ok to contest the choice of adjudicator. To imagine a sport might actually tolerate this and - staggeringly - perhaps acquiesce is beyond common sense.

If anyone can't see the hazards in this then I really think they need to take a step back and think it through, honestly.

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 7:18 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Can anyone translate from the French - http://www.tennisactu.net/news-roland-garros-wawrinka-et-l-affaire-nadal-bernardes-40864.html

Edit - google translation - "When a player makes a request, it must be granted when the referee makes mistakes . This is the most important. If it's just a person that is not suitable or arbitrator we do not like , that request should not be granted.

I do not really know the reasons for the request for Rafa . I read more or less 2 or 3 things , that it was over time and the pressure he put him on his time. It's always the same problem. They tried to be stricter about 25 seconds but the referees fail to apply the same to all players. They know that if they have a problem with a star and they no longer have the chance to arbitrate , they will not be happy because they love to go on the final . If they put the players back on tops, it is difficult. This is the problem on the circuit, an arbitrator can not be as hard against a top 17 on the short"

The last part came out a bit odd.

Wawrinka indicates that the umpires are afraid to give warnings against the top players for fear of reprisals.

In general, 2 of the key points in the Warwrinka interview are 1) he doesn't know the reasons for Nadal's request re Bernades and more importantly 2) he implies that umpires are reluctant to enforce the rule against the top players because doing so they will risk their chances of umpiring at the finals.

One thing we know for sure he didn't mention, he never said that "I have already did a similar request a short time ago" as written in that Twitter page in question posted by HE. (This statement has no credibility based on it's atrocious grammar alone.)

If it's true that Warwrinka had indeed registered "a similar request" with ATP and knowing that Stan is a pretty gutsy and feisty guy not afraid of confrontation, why didn't he tell the press that he had made a similar request?

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 7:23 pm

BS, see my post above, I've not found any hard evidence to support claim of the Warwarinka request. I don't think he ever made one.

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 7:33 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I re-iterate that we now know that two of the world's top ten have asked for an umpire not to umpire their matches so that tells me it is far more commonplace than people seem to think.

If you got a link with a direct quote from Warwrinka himself (not from some nobody's Twitter page with questionable credibility) putting foreword his request to the ATP as Nadal did, could you please share it here? Thanks.

No point as you have already made up your mind on the subject - still the ATP themselves say these requests are far from unusual (see the ESPN link I posted earlier).

I've made up my mind on the subject? Could you tell me what it is, as I don't know it myself!

I never had any problem with with ATP saying "these requests are far from unusual." That's beside the point. My concern is that I don't believe in some random nobody on Twitter using atrocious grammar to claim Warwrinka had made a request similar to Nadal's. I want to hear it first-hand from the horse's mouth. Is that too unreasonable?

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 7:43 pm

http://www.tennisactu.net/news-roland-garros-wawrinka-et-l-affaire-nadal-bernardes-40864.html

JHM posted this and the transcript two pages ago..

put it in Google translate

by Calder106 Wed 27 May 2015, 7:54 pm

On the Wawrinka question confusion reigns. Two different articles on what Wawrinka said.

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/May-2015/Wawrinka-Umpires-Not-As-Strict-With-Top-Players.aspx

http://www.sportal.com.au/tennis/news/wawrinka-has-no-sympathy-for-nadal-in-umpire-row/19itvik8qz6m615riv15yqvuto

There is a vital sentence either added to the first or missed out from the second. I'll leave it to others to decide which they prefer.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 8:25 pm

Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:I re-iterate that we now know that two of the world's top ten have asked for an umpire not to umpire their matches so that tells me it is far more commonplace than people seem to think.

If you got a link with a direct quote from Warwrinka himself (not from some nobody's Twitter page with questionable credibility) putting foreword his request to the ATP as Nadal did, could you please share it here? Thanks.

No point as you have already made up your mind on the subject - still the ATP themselves say these requests are far from unusual (see the ESPN link I posted earlier).
I've made up my mind on the subject? Could you tell me what it is, as I don't know it myself!

I never had any problem with with ATP saying "these requests are far from unusual." That's beside the point. My concern is that I don't believe in some random nobody on Twitter using atrocious grammar to claim Warwrinka had made a request similar to Nadal's. I want to hear it first-hand from the horse's mouth. Is that too unreasonable?

Anyone reading your posts can see your mind is made up so I don't need to spell it out. However, I would now agree that Wawrinka thing was nonsense. From what I can tell it was posted by no more than a fan with an opinion and had no connection whatsoever to Stan the Man. However, that in no way negated the ATP spokesman who says these requests are more commonplace than people think. Yes yes I have heard the nonsense about the ATP protecting Nadal but I say what nonsense. Until it can be unearthed that this ATP spokesman was lying when he said the ATP get a number of such requests then I say this constitutes the most concrete evidence on the subject at the moment.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 27 May 2015, 8:51 pm

Jeeeze its getting like a game of Chinese whispers.

If it is true what Stan says about Umpires not wishing to get tough with the top players... for what reason??? because they are protecting top players.
B.S !! they get more money when they are umpiring the matches in the last throes of the tournament.. they don't want players requesting them not to officiate..

This whole argument is losing credibility by the minute
Phone Stan up and ask him which of the versions are correct .. because its take your choice time whichever side of that cynical net your on, No one is going to get to the truth but keep digging the dirt

by Matchpoint Wed 27 May 2015, 8:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
I would now agree that Wawrinka thing was nonsense.

Finally, this is all I need to hear. The rest iare side issues but I appreciate the feedback, thanks. thumbsup

by Born Slippy Wed 27 May 2015, 8:57 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Jeeeze its getting like a game of Chinese whispers.

If it is true what Stan says about Umpires not wishing to get tough with the top players... for what reason??? because they are protecting top players.
B.S !! they get more money when they are umpiring the matches in the last throes of the tournament.. they don't want players requesting them not to officiate..

This whole argument is losing credibility by the minute
Phone Stan up and ask him which of the versions are correct .. because its take your choice time whichever side of that cynical net your on, No one is going to get to the truth but keep digging the dirt

I don't follow this post. The argument makes sense - how is credibility being lost?

by CaledonianCraig Wed 27 May 2015, 9:00 pm

Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
I would now agree that Wawrinka thing was nonsense.
Finally, this is all I need to hear. The rest iare side issues but I appreciate the feedback, thanks.

But don't forget the ATP spokesman says these requests are much more common than people think so until he is proven to be a liar or we hear he has been sacked for mistruths then his word should be accepted.

by Born Slippy Wed 27 May 2015, 9:10 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Matchpoint wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
I would now agree that Wawrinka thing was nonsense.
Finally, this is all I need to hear. The rest iare side issues but I appreciate the feedback, thanks.

But don't forget the ATP spokesman says these requests are much more common than people think so until he is proven to be a liar or we hear he has been sacked for mistruths then his word should be accepted.

Surely that makes it far worse?

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