Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May

by **George Carlin** Sun 24 May 2015, 12:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Bath_f11

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Sarrie11

BATH RUGBY v SARACENS
Saturday 30 May 2015
KO: 14:30
Twickenham

Live on BT Sport

Referee: Wayne Barnes (156th Premiership game, 6th final).
Assistant Referees: JP Doyle & Greg Garner.
TMO: Graham Hughes.

A. Head to Head - Aggregate

38 Played 38
13 Wins 23
23 Losses 13
2 Draws 2
82 Tries 87
68 Conversions 60
82 Penalties 107
2 Drop Goals 4
798 Points 888
26 Avg. Age 27

B. Head to Head - This Season

Sun 15 Feb 15: Saracens 34 - 24 Bath Rugby

Fri 3 Oct 2014: Bath Rugby 21 - 11 Saracens

C. Run-In

Bath Rugby

23/05/15 Bath 47 - 10 Tigers

16/05/15 Bath 50 - 30 Gloucester

08/05/15 Quins 26 - 27 Bath

Saracens

23/05/15 Saints 24 - 29 Saracens

16/05/15 L Welsh 17 - 68 Saracens

10/05/15 Saracens 20 - 24 Chiefs

D. Teams

Bath Rugby
Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Indira10

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Indira10

Watson; Rokoduguni, Joseph, Eastmond, Banahan; Ford, Stringer; James, Batty, Wilson, Hooper (capt), Attwood, Burgess, Louw, Houston.

Replacements: Webber, Auterac, Thomas, Day, Garvey, Fearns, Cook, Devoto.

Saracens
Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Kacey_10

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Kacey_10

Goode; Strettle, Taylor, Barritt, Wyles; Farrell, Wigglesworth; M. Vunipola, George, Du Plessis, Kruis, Hargreaves (capt), Itoje, Burger, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: Brits, Barrington, Figallo, Hamilton, Wray, de Kock, Hodgson, Ashton.

by offload Sat 30 May 2015, 3:40 pm

George Carlin wrote:Just turned on my live feed (no telly as I'm in the office ).

Holy shyte. Is it really 25-6?

No it's all a bad dream

Fingers Crossed

by **George Carlin** Sat 30 May 2015, 3:41 pm

Welly wrote: No it is 6 - 25 actually.

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Kennet10

by Welly Sat 30 May 2015, 3:44 pm

Thank god james is of we now have a game!

by **George Carlin** Sat 30 May 2015, 3:46 pm

Game on...

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 30 May 2015, 3:46 pm

JJ - he is one of the most exciting players around.

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:05 pm

Webber has been awful. Another reason we need to be genuinely worried about no Hartley at the WC

by nathan Sat 30 May 2015, 4:06 pm

What's the score guys?

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 30 May 2015, 4:07 pm

nathan wrote:What's the score guys?

16-28

by nathan Sat 30 May 2015, 4:07 pm

Cheers

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 30 May 2015, 4:08 pm

Bath had a hot streak in the second half, but Saracens came back, and Bath haven't been able to get up a head of steam again.

by Knackeredknees Sat 30 May 2015, 4:10 pm

how long left?!!!!! stuck at work and cant get a stream to run

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:12 pm

Webber again. Very poor.

by **George Carlin** Sat 30 May 2015, 4:13 pm

Knackeredknees wrote:how long left?!!!!! stuck at work and cant get a stream to run

7 minutes, Knackered. Sarries up by 12.

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:15 pm

Was really hoping Bath would win this. Can't stand Sarries, but fair enough, in crunch games their defence just wins them so many games. They've been OK to watch today but normally I'd rather watch paint dry.

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:17 pm

Is Webber our no. 2 for the WC then? Because his throwing has been no. 2 today.

by Welly Sat 30 May 2015, 4:18 pm

Hood83 wrote:Was really hoping Bath would win this. Can't stand Sarries, but fair enough, in crunch games their defence just wins them so many games. They've been OK to watch today but normally I'd rather watch paint dry.

Stupid thing to say Sarries have been better at every aspect not just defence.

Bath are a one trick pony just have a wide attack which either is stunning to watch or crumbles under pressure.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 30 May 2015, 4:19 pm

Rob Webber is lucky that the England squad has already been announced otherwise he wouldn't be in it. He's had a shocker since coming on.

Owen Farrell is man of the match and I'm not sure he's even been Sarries best back let alone man of the match.

by **George Carlin** Sat 30 May 2015, 4:20 pm

Fazzer man of the match.

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:22 pm

Welly wrote:
Hood83 wrote:Was really hoping Bath would win this. Can't stand Sarries, but fair enough, in crunch games their defence just wins them so many games. They've been OK to watch today but normally I'd rather watch paint dry.

Stupid thing to say Sarries have been better at every aspect not just defence.

Bath are a one trick pony just have a wide attack which either is stunning to watch or crumbles under pressure.

I didn't say everything hadn't been exceptional today, I said it's their defence that is often the big difference i.e. the aspect that is comfortably better than the other team's. In this case I'd agree they've just been better all round.

Bath are a one trick pony is about as stupid a comment as I've heard.

by thomh Sat 30 May 2015, 4:24 pm

Disappointing for Farrell to get man of the match after his thump to Watson's head took one of Bath's best backs out of the game after only a few minutes.

Burgess' best game of union by a long way today. Webber had a terrible 30 minutes.

by thomh Sat 30 May 2015, 4:25 pm

Bath really need to sort their set-piece and maul out. Despite the 47-10 scoreline, it could have cost them last week and definitely did today.

by Welly Sat 30 May 2015, 4:30 pm

Hood83 wrote:
Welly wrote:
Hood83 wrote:Was really hoping Bath would win this. Can't stand Sarries, but fair enough, in crunch games their defence just wins them so many games. They've been OK to watch today but normally I'd rather watch paint dry.

Stupid thing to say Sarries have been better at every aspect not just defence.

Bath are a one trick pony just have a wide attack which either is stunning to watch or crumbles under pressure.

I didn't say everything hadn't been exceptional today, I said it's their defence that is often the big difference i.e. the aspect that is comfortably better than the other team's. In this case I'd agree they've just been better all round.

Bath are a one trick pony is about as stupid a comment as I've heard.

Explain to me how bath are not a one trick pony ATM? Wide attack counter attack once that is stopper either in defence or at source they struggle. Must be happy with James going.

Also you said there defence wins them so many matches well there attack won them this match just as much.

by Welly Sat 30 May 2015, 4:33 pm

Welly wrote: If Bath play like they did against Leicester they will lose.

Also Bath are like Chelsea.

Aviva Premiership FINAL - Bath Rugby v Saracens, 30 May - Page 3 Simpsons_Duff_Oh_Yeah_Black_Shirt_POP

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:39 pm

Welly wrote:
Hood83 wrote:
Welly wrote:
Hood83 wrote:Was really hoping Bath would win this. Can't stand Sarries, but fair enough, in crunch games their defence just wins them so many games. They've been OK to watch today but normally I'd rather watch paint dry.

Stupid thing to say Sarries have been better at every aspect not just defence.

Bath are a one trick pony just have a wide attack which either is stunning to watch or crumbles under pressure.

I didn't say everything hadn't been exceptional today, I said it's their defence that is often the big difference i.e. the aspect that is comfortably better than the other team's. In this case I'd agree they've just been better all round.

Bath are a one trick pony is about as stupid a comment as I've heard.

Explain to me how bath are not a one trick pony ATM? Wide attack counter attack once that is stopper either in defence or at source they struggle. Must be happy with James going.

Also you said there defence wins them so many matches well there attack won them this match just as much.

Ah if by ATM you mean last few games, fair enough. Prior to this they have also scored off plenty off first phase, and they've regularly used a very big pack to bully teams up front. Their maul and scrum have gone backwards recently it seems but have at times alternated between being either a weapon or solid at least. If anything I think they've moved a bit further away from a forward oriented game in the last few months and that has cost them against teams like Sarries who fundamentally focus on suffocating defence out wide, committing few players to the ruck.

I'd say their defence was today was at least as significant as their attack. Sarries are built around their defence, their entire ethos is about relentless defensive pressure.

by Radox For Men Sat 30 May 2015, 4:41 pm

Wanted Bath to win but happy for Sarries, really respect their team ethic and don't understand why they seem to be so unpopular

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:42 pm

Welly wrote:
Welly wrote: If Bath play like they did against Leicester they will lose.

Also Bath are like Chelsea.

I'd say Sarries are like Chelsea. Big money owner, very committed players, defensively focused, obnoxiously tacky...and now champs. Bath more like Man City - mega bucks, flash, attack focused, less accomplished head coach perhaps.

by Chunky Norwich Sat 30 May 2015, 4:46 pm

Shame. But Sarries the better team. Bath didn't turn up.

Farrell should have been binned at least once.

by Hood83 Sat 30 May 2015, 4:47 pm

Radox For Men wrote:Wanted Bath to win but happy for Sarries, really respect their team ethic and don't understand why they seem to be so unpopular

The endless naff piped music because their fans are funereally quiet. The fans themselves and the stupid wavey fingers thing they do before kicks and general sense of smugness you seem to get from them (this may be unfair, just perhaps some of the ones I've met). The fat lady singing stunt they used to have and over celebration at victories of the players. Head Boy Borthwick and his incessant whining to the ref, clapping of others being penalised etc.

Essentially, just zero class. On the other hand, they have a lot of community projects that deserve a lot of credit for, many of which the players genuinely seem to embrace. And their is a real 'no superstars' team first attitude and excellent work ethic. So maybe it's evened out. Previously they have played some pretty uninspiring stuff as well. I do like teams to offer some risk, it feels braver, but fair play to them. They were good value for their win today.

by madmaccas Sat 30 May 2015, 4:56 pm

Well done Saracens. Totally blitzed Bath in the first 30.

Was surprised to see Farrell totally outplay Ford, who still looks a wee bit shakey on the big occasions.

Anyone else think the whole "Wolf Pack" thing is cheesy and naff?

by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 May 2015, 5:27 pm

Not sure Ford was outplayed or looked shakey?

by offload Sat 30 May 2015, 6:03 pm

madmaccas wrote:Well done Saracens. Totally blitzed Bath in the first 30.

Was surprised to see Farrell totally outplay Ford, who still looks a wee bit shakey on the big occasions.

Anyone else think the whole "Wolf Pack" thing is cheesy and naff?

That's silly. Ford played well, certainly no worse than Farrell who was lucky not to be binned and was nowhere near MOTM. Ford was playing behind a pack that didn't turn up, Farrell had an armchair ride.

Shocking performance from the Bath 8. Congrats to Sarries (through gritted teeth) worthy winners today.

by thomh Sat 30 May 2015, 6:12 pm

offload wrote:
madmaccas wrote:Well done Saracens. Totally blitzed Bath in the first 30.

Was surprised to see Farrell totally outplay Ford, who still looks a wee bit shakey on the big occasions.

Anyone else think the whole "Wolf Pack" thing is cheesy and naff?

That's silly. Ford played well, certainly no worse than Farrell who was lucky not to be binned and was nowhere near MOTM. Ford was playing behind a pack that didn't turn up, Farrell had an armchair ride.

Shocking performance from the Bath 8. Congrats to Sarries (through gritted teeth) worthy winners today.

Thought Burgess, Attwood and maybe Houston and Louw were good - Burgess in particular who made 13 carries for 52m beating 3 defenders, and all of his tackles including that monster hit on Billy Vunipola. Assuming England see sense and decide he's a 6 I think Rowntree is going to love him, whether or not he actually makes the final squad.

Agree on Ford, he was pretty decent. Can't bear the thought of this being spun as Farrell overcoming Ford. Bath's main problems were the set piece and a lack of composure at times in midfield. Eastmond had a bit of dodgy game and Bath didn't tie enough defenders in on first and second phases.

by HongKongCherry Sat 30 May 2015, 6:32 pm

Burgess showed exactly what he is today, an outstanding ball carrier capable of big hits but he is not yet a forward. I wasn't aware of him at any ruck and his scrummaging is lacking. I'm sure he'll be a great union player but he's not one yet.

I don't think any of the Bath pack stood up today, but in equal measures the Sarries pack was awesome. The level of intensity they brought was fabulous to watch.

Joseph has got to be Bomber's first name of the team sheet for the RWC. Every time he got the ball he looked dangerous. Barritt out played Eastmond and I'd have him as the starting 12.

It was a great game to watch and both teams made a spectacle of it. Genuine commiserations to Bath but they were beaten by a ruthless, committed team. We just need to wait until October to see this again...

by Geordie Sat 30 May 2015, 8:41 pm

Well done Sarries...I told you they would win Wink

by nathan Sat 30 May 2015, 10:06 pm

Where's tight head? He's been bragging about bath being in the final all week...

by Guest Sat 30 May 2015, 10:49 pm

Motm was George for me.

by Guest Sat 30 May 2015, 10:49 pm

nathan wrote:Where's tight head? He's been bragging about bath being in the final all week...

Yeah, but tighthersh I mean head is a Plymouth fan only. I'm confused.

by yappysnap Sat 30 May 2015, 11:02 pm

Gutted that Sarries won, I'm not a Bath fan but Sarries are just so horrible to watch. Add to that their horrific music and the cheap Poopie they love to throw around and they're pretty unlike able.

Knew it wasn't to be Baths day when Barnes did even think about binning Farrell after the obvious high shot and then Farrell goes on to score the first try on top of so much luck from Vunipola.

Game was over as a contest when Sarries scored their second try and Watson had to go off.

by Bone Collector Sat 30 May 2015, 11:37 pm

Splendid victory. Well played Sarries.Just back from a very satisfying trip to Twickers.Congratulations to the Sarries squad for a great effort over the past two weekends.Commiserations to Bath and their fans.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 31 May 2015, 8:13 am

yappysnap wrote:Knew it wasn't to be Baths day when Barnes did even think about binning Farrell after the obvious high shot and then Farrell goes on to score the first try on top of so much luck from Vunipola.

People will say that Farrell did not mean to nearly take his head off. they will say he was aiming at the upper chest and combined with Watson maybe dipping slightly just got it slightly wrong. I say Love sacks to that. If you go in with a stiff arm aiming that high then should you nearly decapitate someone you should take responsibility. People say the game is getting softer now, but this is one area where that is not true - back in my day that would have been an immediate sending off and a serious ban. Even with today's laissez faire attitude to high tackling I struggle to see how that should not be at least a yellow.

Gotta say though that Bath did what we all feared/predicted and tried to play too much rugby early on and their precision, in the face of typical Sarries aggressive defence, was not good enough. Add in the refereeing of the scrum (and we could debate the rights and wrongs of that for weeks) and it was game over. Good attempt to fight back in the second half and I felt Ford kept his compusre and played well even though he was the subject of the kind of slightly late, slightly high hits from Burger and Itoje that a certain Sarries fan has described as "cheap shots" in the past.

Now we have to wait and see what happens when the Salary Cap investigation against Sarries and any other as yet un-confirmed team(s) unveils when it resumes on Monday.

by beshocked Sun 31 May 2015, 8:36 am

Didn't watch the game but listened.

Sounded like Saracens were far too streetwise for Bath which is unsurprising. The style of the likes of Bath and Quins play right into the hands of Saracens.

Saracens have been beaten when sides have been able to physically match them. E.g. Clermont, Saints and Exeter.

Bath seemed to be overconfident over their big win vs Leicester.

Saracens have an edginess to them that Leicester lack these days.

From what I heard Farrell probably should have been yellow carded and rightly so. He's a hot headed young man - it's his game to be a bit physical. Sarries of course lucky there.

Saracens are not the nicest team around, far from it, yes perhaps they got the rub of the green but it's up to other teams to find a way to win.

Oh and yappysnap you say Saracens are horrible to watch yet they scored 3 tries to 1 - sounds like some skill was involved too. Sounds like intelligent counter attacking rugby instead of the incredibly stupid tactic of trying to run everything.

Have to play intelligently.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 31 May 2015, 8:54 am

Having said all that, Saracens came out and delivered their gameplan exactly as they would have wished and thus deserved to win that final.

by Exiledinborders Sun 31 May 2015, 9:27 am

HongKongCherry wrote:Burgess showed exactly what he is today, an outstanding ball carrier capable of big hits but he is not yet a forward. I wasn't aware of him at any ruck and his scrummaging is lacking. I'm sure he'll be a great union player but he's not one yet.

I don't think any of the Bath pack stood up today, but in equal measures the Sarries pack was awesome. The level of intensity they brought was fabulous to watch.

Joseph has got to be Bomber's first name of the team sheet for the RWC. Every time he got the ball he looked dangerous. Barritt out played Eastmond and I'd have him as the starting 12.

It was a great game to watch and both teams made a spectacle of it. Genuine commiserations to Bath but they were beaten by a ruthless, committed team. We just need to wait until October to see this again...

Is he that great a carrier? He seems to get stripped of the ball as often as not.

I will be horrified if he is left in the final squad for the RWC.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 31 May 2015, 9:31 am

Stripped once yesterday following a high tackle from Itoje but he will risk it to get offloads away. Id be disappointed if hes left out.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 31 May 2015, 9:57 am

Burgess in general did what we know he can. He carried hard - usually looking for the offload and he tackled hard. I agree with HKC - he was lacking at the breakdown and the tight - areas which are new to him. Unless these areas improve while with e~ngland over the summer, I woudl be seriously disappointed if he is included in the final squad for WC.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 31 May 2015, 10:01 am

He s looked good in previous matches though. Not sure he could have done much more than he did yesterday.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 31 May 2015, 10:07 am

He has looked good at what he is good at - question is whether that is enough. I feel it is enough to be looked at, but atm not enogh to make the final cut.

by lostinwales Sun 31 May 2015, 11:17 am

If its between Burgess and Itoje, who goes?

by doctor_grey Sun 31 May 2015, 11:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:He has looked good at what he is good at - question is whether that is enough. I feel it is enough to be looked at, but atm not enogh to make the final cut.

I suppose the thing about Burgess is that he is learning the game quickly. I agree with you right now, but it will be interesting to see the stage of his Rugby development after two more months of classroom work and breakdown practice. Not saying he will be England ready, but he does appear to be catching on.

by **LondonTiger** Sun 31 May 2015, 4:06 pm

Farrell and Webber both given retrospective yellow cards for foul play.

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