UEFA Champions and Europa League 2015/16 Thread

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 02 Jul 2015, 2:46 am

First topic message reminder :

It begins for the English today as West Ham face FC Lusitans in front of a sold out Upton Park this evening. The team will be a bit mixed. Randolph, O'Brien, Tomkins, Burke, Page. Jarvis, Oxford, Poyet, Amalfitano. Zarate, Sakho.

by **Hero** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 8:08 am

It was good, Liverpool Dortmund though was much more compelling.

by Guest Fri 15 Apr 2016, 8:24 am

Obviously being wise after the fact, there seems to be an argument, even after the first leg, that Dortmund run out of steam after 70 mins. Doesn't take away from a cracking game

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 9:20 am

I think Klopp made mistakes in his line up at the beginning, was too gung ho, Milner seemed to have freedom to move but that left Can on his own. (He was fantastic there, but one man can only do so much.) But his game management was so much better than Tuchel's. Making a substitution before a corner is never a good idea. I thought it was a mistake to take Reus off, he was very good at taking the ball and running with it and from that point on Dortmund struggled to get the ball out of their half.

I actually think the Dortmund players were shellshocked that Liverpool continued to go for it. At 2-0 they probably thought the fans and the players' head would drop, instead Liverpool played as if they were 3-0 up and hungry for more. They couldn't keep up with the pace. Not sure they can blame tiredness considering so many of them were rested at the weekend and Liverpool, I'm pretty sure, have played more games this season.

by Duty281 Fri 15 Apr 2016, 9:32 am

Hero wrote:Remember a couple of weeks ago when a few people rubbished the idea that the Liverpool Dortmund game wouldn't be the most interesting of the European ties with its back story etc and who cares about Klopp....

The game was entertaining because of the football played on the pitch, not because of some tedious story about some bloke who used to work elsewhere.

by **Hero** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 9:50 am

Duty281 wrote:
Hero wrote:Remember a couple of weeks ago when a few people rubbished the idea that the Liverpool Dortmund game wouldn't be the most interesting of the European ties with its back story etc and who cares about Klopp....

The game was entertaining because of the football played on the pitch, not because of some tedious story about some bloke who used to work elsewhere.

In your opinion.
In my opinion it added to the spectacle.

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:02 am

In the opinion of the majority of football fans as well. Those kinds of things add to the story.

by Duty281 Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:03 am

Hero wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Hero wrote:Remember a couple of weeks ago when a few people rubbished the idea that the Liverpool Dortmund game wouldn't be the most interesting of the European ties with its back story etc and who cares about Klopp....

The game was entertaining because of the football played on the pitch, not because of some tedious story about some bloke who used to work elsewhere.

In your opinion.
In my opinion it added to the spectacle.

Well of course it's my opinion, what else could it possibly be?

by Duty281 Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:06 am

Crimey wrote:In the opinion of the majority of football fans as well. Those kinds of things add to the story.

Most football fans only care about the game. Journalists, pundits and a minority of hardcore supporters might differ.

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:08 am

Duty281 wrote:
Crimey wrote:In the opinion of the majority of football fans as well. Those kinds of things add to the story.

Most football fans only care about the game. Journalists, pundits and a minority of hardcore supporters might differ.

You're the only person I've ever met, either in person or online to ever not care about those kinds of things. Yeah people might put different amounts of emphasis onto them, but you're the only person I know who is so robotic in refusing to enjoy the drama that adds to football.

by GSC Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:47 am

Agree with Duty.

I'll stick my neck out and say Bayern City final.

by Alistair Fri 15 Apr 2016, 10:47 am

Can't say I cared about the backstory, but it was a terrifically absorbing and superb game of football. As a neutral; or any neutral for that matter, if you didn't enjoy that game and cheer the outcome then you're watching the wrong thing.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 11:16 am

Win-win for me. If Liverpool lose theyre out and unhappy, if they're in then they will focus on it more than the league.

Also, its good for English football and this balls that English football is rubbish. Liverpool arent flying in the league and knocked out Dortmund

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 11:42 am

Manchester City vs Real Madrid

Bayern vs Atletico Madrid

That's the CL sem-finals.

Think that's probably the most interesting line up, can't remember seeing those teams facing each other. Ideally would want Bayern vs Manchester City final. Least interesting would be another Madrid derby.

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 11:53 am

Villarreal vs Liverpool

Sevilla vs Shaktar Donetsk

Europa League semi-finals.

Pretty decent draw, think all the teams at this stage are fairly equal to be honest though. Sevilla will have some confidence of winning three in a row. Looking at the La Liga table, Villarreal have been significantly better than Sevilla so perhaps this is the toughest draw Liverpool could have got.

Shaktar destroyed Braga last round so they seem to be pretty good, but they sold their best player in January so I think they're my preferred option for the final if Liverpool get there. Just because I think Sevilla will feel it's theirs to win if they get to the final.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:02 pm

Id have said Villareal were the toughest for Liverpool because of the style of football (ie. They are similar to Atletico in that they're very solid at the back and attack at pace on the counter), although I'm not sure Villareal are actually the best team left

But semi finals of a competition gonna be tough whoever you play tbf

by Alistair Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:11 pm

Crimey wrote:Manchester City vs Real Madrid

Bayern vs Atletico Madrid

That's the CL sem-finals.

Think that's probably the most interesting line up, can't remember seeing those teams facing each other. Ideally would want Bayern vs Manchester City final. Least interesting would be another Madrid derby.

Your memory isn't very good then, City and Real were in the same group in 2012.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:15 pm

Good draw all round. Think thats the best one Liverpool could get, Sevilla wont be nervous at all and probably are quite zoned in on this competition. Would expect Liverpool to win this tie, but Liverpool are rather bi-polar so depends how they turn up

by Alistair Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:17 pm

The problem is, can you imagine if they did win it? They won't shut up.

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:23 pm

Alistair wrote:The problem is, can you imagine if they did win it? They won't shut up.

Also Real/City have barely faced each other compared to other ties. Manchester City have been knocked out by Barcelona in the previous two years. They were also in the group stages with Bayern for the last two years. They haven't played Atletico much, but then Bayern would have faced Real Madrid which we saw in the semis two years ago.

by Alistair Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:35 pm

That's cause City have no history.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:40 pm

I'm not big on EL winners getting CL so it'll annoy me more for Pool to win it, although it would be funny if they cost City

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I'm not big on EL winners getting CL so it'll annoy me more for Pool to win it, although it would be funny if they cost City

Can't happen.

It would be top 4 + Europa League winners.

The only way the league qualified team can be affected is if Manchester City win the Champions League AND Liverpool win the Europa League, then whoever finishes fourth would lose out. So there's a possibility of Manchester United to finish fourth, only to lose out on CL because of their two biggest rivals.

I think giving the Europa League winners a bigger incentive to win is a good thing for the competition, and arguably is more of an achievement, albeit a different kind (knock out versus league) than finishing fourth.

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:43 pm

Alistair wrote:That's cause City have no history.

They have a lot of history. It might not have taken place in the upper echelons of European football but Manchester City aren't MK Dons.

by Alistair Fri 15 Apr 2016, 12:46 pm

I meant in a modern day European Football sense.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:15 pm

[quote="Crimey"]

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
I think giving the Europa League winners a bigger incentive to win is a good thing for the competition, and arguably is more of an achievement, albeit a different kind (knock out versus league) than finishing fourth.

Bigger incentive for that competition, but not sure its particularly fair. Probably means a lesser nation is getting less spots, and that for the team that finishes (possibly) 8th

by **Crimey** Fri 15 Apr 2016, 1:24 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Crimey wrote:
I think giving the Europa League winners a bigger incentive to win is a good thing for the competition, and arguably is more of an achievement, albeit a different kind (knock out versus league) than finishing fourth.
Bigger incentive for that competition, but not sure its particularly fair. Probably means a lesser nation is getting less spots, and that for the team that finishes (possibly) 8th

I don't think it'll make a huge difference honestly, one tiny team will likely just have to go through one more qualification earlier on in the competition. The Champions League is elitist by its nature, I don't think giving the Europa League winners actually makes it much different.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 26 Apr 2016, 8:31 pm

Fair to say that first half was absolute Poopie

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue 26 Apr 2016, 9:13 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:15 pm

I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

by Holymiky Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:52 pm

You mean a team that can defend?

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 27 Apr 2016, 9:58 pm

A Chelsea fan defending parking the bus is hardly surprising.

by Holymiky Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:08 pm

Why did you go straight to that? I'm just saying that Atletico can defend, not anything to do with me being a Chelsea fan.

I'm sure you wouldn't want your team to just let teams walk by and score goals.

by Holymiky Wed 27 Apr 2016, 10:10 pm

Last time i checked Defending was part of the game Laugh

by Guest Thu 28 Apr 2016, 8:37 am

Can see an Atletico v Real Madrid final again. Would say it's been a fairly forgettable champions league this season, been pretty dull.

by Fernando Thu 28 Apr 2016, 11:28 am

That's because a lack of people watching it Laugh

That being said Courtois & Alderweireld have said that Diego has some next level defensive training.

by GSC Thu 28 Apr 2016, 11:37 am

Atletico are the best team at defending in Europe without a doubt. They are adept at killing a game against the best teams.

They are also fairly boring to watch as a result.

by Fernando Thu 28 Apr 2016, 10:21 pm

FT Shaktar 2-2 Sevilla
FT Villareal 1-0 Liverpool

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 28 Apr 2016, 10:47 pm

Fernando wrote:
FT Villareal 1-0 Liverpool

#we'llgoagain

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 28 Apr 2016, 10:51 pm

Got what they deserved, should have upped it in the last 20 minutes but were instead happy for a draw.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 28 Apr 2016, 10:59 pm

Away goal always crucial in these knockout games - Villareal now favs to go through you'd have to say

by LivinginItaly Fri 29 Apr 2016, 7:18 am

I agree with Olly. I would much prefer to draw 1-1 or lose 2-1 than go for a 0-0 result. They are favourites to progress...but I wouldn't be surprised if we can turn it around at anfield.

by lfc91 Fri 29 Apr 2016, 7:31 am

Such a negative performance and poor way to lose a game late on like that.(If anyone sees a way I can somehow pin this on Benteke let me know, first appearance in months, concede 1 minute later....).

But in all seriousness, no one but ourselves to blame really. That being said, what the hell was that offside decision about!?! Poor officiating.

by **Crimey** Fri 29 Apr 2016, 9:05 am

Think Klopp made a mistake, overestimated the opponents who I imagine will have been pretty put off at being drawn with Liverpool after our performance in the last round. We generally have played better away from home this season so to see such a sterile performance was really disappointing. Need to really good defensively next game and need to play with a proper forward. Firmino has been in poor form recently and should not have started. Sturridge has got to play at Anfield. I'm hoping an improved atmosphere will drive the team on to play at a faster pace and tempo.

by lfc91 Fri 29 Apr 2016, 10:01 am

Yes that is another issue, why Firmino keeps starting when he has been very poor of late. Some of his passes/touches have been woeful (the majority in fact).

Still confident we can do the job at anfield, but the fact that we now need to win by 2 places unneeded pressure on the team.

by Guest Fri 29 Apr 2016, 12:12 pm

Firmino's better with Coutinho as back-up/moral support. With Villareal sticking 7-8 players behind the ball it meant we needed a bit of craft and guile to find that killer ball yet, Coutinho doesn't play in the 2nd half and the front man who may be able to create that bit of space was left on the bench. Very strange from Klopp last night. We looked really comfortable for huge parts of the game them it was a mad scramble for the last 5 minutes but at no stage did we look like we wanted to push to score (although given the way we got shafted on the counter, it looks a smart tactic in hindsight.

No idea why Ibe was on the left, he was even worse than when he plays on the right. Think Ojo deserves a run out in the 2nd leg as he looks like he may be able to create something

by brennomac Fri 29 Apr 2016, 3:25 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

I don't think Atletico are any worse or better at "cheating" than anybody else in the major leagues and the way many people talk about them you'd think they never score a goal. Just looking at the top four in the four big European leagues, Atletico average 1.7 goals a game - yes a long way behind the near 3 goals a game by Barca and Real , the 2.4 goals a game by Bayern and Dortmund, the 2.2 by Roma and 2.1 by Napoli. But their league goals record stands only marginally behind Leicester, Spurs, MC and Spurs in England and Juve in Italy. So much for anti-footbal!

I think there is a group who simply don't like Simeone for various reasons and will begrudge him all that he has achieved with much more limited resources at Atletico compared to the vast amount of money enjoyed by Barca and Real in particular. Regularly he has to sell his top players to the moneybags clubs in Spain and England in particular but still produces wonderful young talent, Saul and his wonder goal on Wednesday being only the latest example.

He sells Courtois and finds Oblak, he sells Costa to Chelsea where he underperforms, he sells Filipe Luis to Chelsea where he is totally misused and then buys him back at a profit and then gets top performances from him, he gets Savic from MC for a song and he then puts in a MOTM performance against Bayern when arguably the best central defender in the world, Godin, is injured. If spirit and will to win and strikers racing back to defend andf put their bodies on the line are indicators of "anti-football".....

Oh, and using the same goal per game stats above, it seems the top four in the self-professed "best league in the world" score fewer goals than the top four in Spain, Germany and the supposed home of catenaccio Italy!

by Guest Fri 29 Apr 2016, 4:09 pm

brennomac wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

I don't think Atletico are any worse or better at "cheating" than anybody else in the major leagues and the way many people talk about them you'd think they never score a goal. Just looking at the top four in the four big European leagues, Atletico average 1.7 goals a game - yes a long way behind the near 3 goals a game by Barca and Real , the 2.4 goals a game by Bayern and Dortmund, the 2.2 by Roma and 2.1 by Napoli. But their league goals record stands only marginally behind Leicester, Spurs, MC and Spurs in England and Juve in Italy. So much for anti-footbal!

I think there is a group who simply don't like Simeone for various reasons and will begrudge him all that he has achieved with much more limited resources at Atletico compared to the vast amount of money enjoyed by Barca and Real in particular. Regularly he has to sell his top players to the moneybags clubs in Spain and England in particular but still produces wonderful young talent, Saul and his wonder goal on Wednesday being only the latest example.

He sells Courtois and finds Oblak, he sells Costa to Chelsea where he underperforms, he sells Filipe Luis to Chelsea where he is totally misused and then buys him back at a profit and then gets top performances from him, he gets Savic from MC for a song and he then puts in a MOTM performance against Bayern when arguably the best central defender in the world, Godin, is injured. If spirit and will to win and strikers racing back to defend andf put their bodies on the line are indicators of "anti-football".....

Oh, and using the same goal per game stats above, it seems the top four in the self-professed "best league in the world" score fewer goals than the top four in Spain, Germany and the supposed home of catenaccio Italy!

Agreed, I never thought I'd see Torres chasing and harrying like he did. Thought Athletico were superb the other night.

by Hammersmith harrier Fri 29 Apr 2016, 5:02 pm

brennomac wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

I don't think Atletico are any worse or better at "cheating" than anybody else in the major leagues and the way many people talk about them you'd think they never score a goal. Just looking at the top four in the four big European leagues, Atletico average 1.7 goals a game - yes a long way behind the near 3 goals a game by Barca and Real , the 2.4 goals a game by Bayern and Dortmund, the 2.2 by Roma and 2.1 by Napoli. But their league goals record stands only marginally behind Leicester, Spurs, MC and Spurs in England and Juve in Italy. So much for anti-footbal!

I think there is a group who simply don't like Simeone for various reasons and will begrudge him all that he has achieved with much more limited resources at Atletico compared to the vast amount of money enjoyed by Barca and Real in particular. Regularly he has to sell his top players to the moneybags clubs in Spain and England in particular but still produces wonderful young talent, Saul and his wonder goal on Wednesday being only the latest example.

He sells Courtois and finds Oblak, he sells Costa to Chelsea where he underperforms, he sells Filipe Luis to Chelsea where he is totally misused and then buys him back at a profit and then gets top performances from him, he gets Savic from MC for a song and he then puts in a MOTM performance against Bayern when arguably the best central defender in the world, Godin, is injured. If spirit and will to win and strikers racing back to defend andf put their bodies on the line are indicators of "anti-football".....

Oh, and using the same goal per game stats above, it seems the top four in the self-professed "best league in the world" score fewer goals than the top four in Spain, Germany and the supposed home of catenaccio Italy!

Interesting stats based argument, just a shame I don't care for them and use my own eyes instead.

by brennomac Fri 29 Apr 2016, 6:37 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
brennomac wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

I don't think Atletico are any worse or better at "cheating" than anybody else in the major leagues and the way many people talk about them you'd think they never score a goal. Just looking at the top four in the four big European leagues, Atletico average 1.7 goals a game - yes a long way behind the near 3 goals a game by Barca and Real , the 2.4 goals a game by Bayern and Dortmund, the 2.2 by Roma and 2.1 by Napoli. But their league goals record stands only marginally behind Leicester, Spurs, MC and Spurs in England and Juve in Italy. So much for anti-footbal!

I think there is a group who simply don't like Simeone for various reasons and will begrudge him all that he has achieved with much more limited resources at Atletico compared to the vast amount of money enjoyed by Barca and Real in particular. Regularly he has to sell his top players to the moneybags clubs in Spain and England in particular but still produces wonderful young talent, Saul and his wonder goal on Wednesday being only the latest example.

He sells Courtois and finds Oblak, he sells Costa to Chelsea where he underperforms, he sells Filipe Luis to Chelsea where he is totally misused and then buys him back at a profit and then gets top performances from him, he gets Savic from MC for a song and he then puts in a MOTM performance against Bayern when arguably the best central defender in the world, Godin, is injured. If spirit and will to win and strikers racing back to defend andf put their bodies on the line are indicators of "anti-football".....

Oh, and using the same goal per game stats above, it seems the top four in the self-professed "best league in the world" score fewer goals than the top four in Spain, Germany and the supposed home of catenaccio Italy!

Interesting stats based argument, just a shame I don't care for them and use my own eyes instead.

Well ya see what ya want to see I suppose

by Holymiky Fri 29 Apr 2016, 6:45 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
brennomac wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't understand why anyone likes Atletico, they're an anti football team who constantly cheat.

I don't think Atletico are any worse or better at "cheating" than anybody else in the major leagues and the way many people talk about them you'd think they never score a goal. Just looking at the top four in the four big European leagues, Atletico average 1.7 goals a game - yes a long way behind the near 3 goals a game by Barca and Real , the 2.4 goals a game by Bayern and Dortmund, the 2.2 by Roma and 2.1 by Napoli. But their league goals record stands only marginally behind Leicester, Spurs, MC and Spurs in England and Juve in Italy. So much for anti-footbal!

I think there is a group who simply don't like Simeone for various reasons and will begrudge him all that he has achieved with much more limited resources at Atletico compared to the vast amount of money enjoyed by Barca and Real in particular. Regularly he has to sell his top players to the moneybags clubs in Spain and England in particular but still produces wonderful young talent, Saul and his wonder goal on Wednesday being only the latest example.

He sells Courtois and finds Oblak, he sells Costa to Chelsea where he underperforms, he sells Filipe Luis to Chelsea where he is totally misused and then buys him back at a profit and then gets top performances from him, he gets Savic from MC for a song and he then puts in a MOTM performance against Bayern when arguably the best central defender in the world, Godin, is injured. If spirit and will to win and strikers racing back to defend andf put their bodies on the line are indicators of "anti-football".....

Oh, and using the same goal per game stats above, it seems the top four in the self-professed "best league in the world" score fewer goals than the top four in Spain, Germany and the supposed home of catenaccio Italy!

Interesting stats based argument, just a shame I don't care for them and use my own eyes instead.

You mean so you can just continue to attempt to troll/wind people up instead of actually debating the subject properly. I don't have a problem with you calling a team boring either, even if it is Chelsea as it's your opinion.

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