Scotland v Japan, 23 September

by **George Carlin** Thu 17 Sep 2015, 6:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Scot_f10

SCOTLAND V JAPAN
23 September 2015
KO: 14:30 BST
Kingsholm, Gloucester

Live on [tbc]

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch judges: George Clancy (Ireland) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

4 Played 4
4 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 4
221 Points 45

B. Recent Form

09 Nov 2013
Scotland 42 - 17 Japan
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

13 Nov 2004
Scotland 100 - 8 Japan
McDiarmid Park, Perth

12 Oct 2003
Scotland 32 - 11 Japan
Dairy Farmers Stadium, Townsville

05 Oct 1991
Scotland 47 - 9 Japan
Murrayfield, Edinburgh

C. Teams

SCOTLAND
Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Kirsty10

Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Kirsty10

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Matt Scott
11 Sean Lamont
10 Finn Russell
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)

01 Ali Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Jonny Gray
06 Ryan Wilson
07 John Hardie
08 David Denton

16 Fraser Brown
17 Ryan Grant
18 Jon Welsh
19 Richie Gray
20 Joshua Strauss
21 Henry Pyrgos
22 Peter Horne
23 Sean Maitland

JAPAN
Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Koshib10

Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Koshib10

01- Keita Inagaki
02- Shota Horie
03- Hiroshi Yamashita
04- Luke Thompson
05- Justin Ives
06- Michael Leitch (captain)
07- Michael Broadhurst
08- Amanaki Mafi

09- Fumiaki Tanaka
10- Harumichi Tatekawa
11- Kenki Fukuoka
12- Yu Tamura
13- Male Sa'u
14- Kotaro Matsushima
15- Ayumu Goromaru

16- Takeshi Kizu
17- Masataka Mikami
18- Kensuke Hatakeyama
19- Shinya Makabe
20- Shoji Ito
21- Hendrik Tui
22- Atsushi Hiwasa
23- Karne Hesketh

by VinceWLB Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:25 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Also want to hear what Eddie Jones' reaction is. I'm glad Scotland called his bluff and went for it.

To his credit, he's refused to accept the 4 day turn around as the reason they lost - credits Scotland for taking their chances when Japan didn't.

Can you imagine what papy Solomons would have said about the short turn around Laugh

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:28 pm

Lol Solomons dummy wouldn't just have been spat out of the pram, but it probably would have landed in the North Sea Laugh

by cakeordeath Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:32 pm

I guess I am the only one who thought Laidlaw was mediocre. Still slow, poor decision making, and has no presence as captain.

by JonnyEdinburgh Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:34 pm

Shifty wrote:Why do people moan about this 4 day cráp?

Surely the teams who ranked higher should get the better treatment? Whats the point in qualifying automatically based on merit, if your punished for it?

The other alternative is to drop down to a 16 team tournament and teams like Georgia, Namibia, Uruguay and Tonga probably won't be in it at all.

Scotland also have a 4 day turn around against the USA, which basically means they win the game early or might come badly unstuck, there are different kinds of pressures on all the teams in this World Cup. It's do or die for Wales this Saturday. Along with quite a lot of other teams.

Spot on. This short turnaround nonsense is exactly that, nonsense. Remember that these are professional athletes. Look at guys like Djokovic and Murray who can play at 100% for 90 mins to 4 hours+ every other day for a fortnight.
In rugby I appreciate some of the more, ahem, 'specialist' positions may struggle but hence why there is squad rotation and substitutions to cover that. The only 'disadvantage' I see is if you get a raft of injuries which I dont remember seeing on Saturday. It would be different with the teams like Namibia with part time players. But as far as I know Japan and Scptland are fully pro. If they cant cope with a single 4 day turnaround for less than 3 hours total work then they have only themselves to blame for substandard prep. That applies to Japan today who were eventually pumped and will equally apply to Scotland on Sunday, no excuses. (Rant over)

by InjuredYetAgain Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:36 pm

cakeordeath wrote:I guess I am the only one who thought Laidlaw was mediocre. Still slow, poor decision making, and has no presence as captain.

Apart from Jimbo, yes you are boxing

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:38 pm

cakeordeath wrote:I guess I am the only one who thought Laidlaw was mediocre. Still slow, poor decision making, and has no presence as captain.

You and others on here have taken a stance against him, that's fair enough. But he was instrumental in Hardie, Russel and Bennett's trys.

He also kicked over 90% of his shots at goal, marshalled the forwards well and kicked well from hand. He also manipulated that hapless Lacey into penalising Japan for everything but tying their bootlace's properly.

What more did you want?

by sportform Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:38 pm

Not sure how good Scotland looked or how much Saturday's win took out of Japan? It sets up some good games a week on Saturday with Scotland taking on South Africa and Japan against Samoa.

by VinceWLB Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:42 pm

cakeordeath wrote:I guess I am the only one who thought Laidlaw was mediocre. Still slow, poor decision making, and has no presence as captain.

And doesn't know the rules as well, thought it was a 22 drop out when you are charged down in your in goal area picard

by cakeordeath Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:49 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
cakeordeath wrote:I guess I am the only one who thought Laidlaw was mediocre. Still slow, poor decision making, and has no presence as captain.

You and others on here have taken a stance against him, that's fair enough. But he was instrumental in Hardie, Russel and Bennett's trys.

He also kicked over 90% of his shots at goal, marshalled the forwards well and kicked well from hand. He also manipulated that hapless Lacey into penalising Japan for everything but tying their bootlace's properly.

What more did you want?

My "stance against him" is based on his performance in a Scotland shirt. He made 90% of his kicks, because 90% of them were straightforward. His kicking form hand was better and he did marshal the forwards...but....He was also slow, made some poor decisions and never threatened the line himself.

Also I don't think Lacey needed any help.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 10:54 pm

Your stance against him stems from the fact that he had a poor 6N. In the AI's he was superb. He shows his class week in week out at Glaws and he played well in the warm up games. Today he was again excellent. His service couldn't have been that slow otherwise our try scorers wouldn't have found the gaps through which to score.

I myself would have rather seen SHC play however this tournament might have come just a wee bit too early. Pyrgos will no doubt start against the USA and can stake his claim from there.

We should be happy to have such talent to choose from.

by InjuredYetAgain Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:05 pm

I have been quick enough to give Laidlaw pelters in the past but you have to give credit where it is due. His performance wasn't flawless tody but even the likes of Dan Carter will make mistakes in every game

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:12 pm

In fairness, from what I saw laidlaw made a good account of himself and has responded well to competition it seems.I'm a huge pyrgos fan but I don't know how much influence he'd have had today.

If we can win with the team that's on the pitch, then I'm happy. We won in a tough game with very little territory or possession, I consider that a success for any captain, though I think motm needs to go to hardie for this one

by InjuredYetAgain Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:16 pm

I am watching ITV's highlights programme and they came out with a surprising stat. I didn't realise that, of today's starting XV, only Ford, Dickinson and Lamont had played in a world cup game before.
I suppose that does make sense when you see how young (or how recently <ahem> recruited) the team are. But didn't Laidlaw play in the last WC?

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:18 pm

InjuredYetAgain wrote:I am watching ITV's highlights programme and they came out with a surprising stat. I didn't realise that, of today's starting XV, only Ford, Dickinson and Lamont had played in a world cup game before.
I suppose that does make sense when you see how young (or how recently <ahem> recruited) the team are. But didn't Laidlaw play in the last WC?

No Blair, Cus and Lawson were our 9s

by madmaccas Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:24 pm

My 2 pence.

First half we were sh!te. They made ground with every run as our defence was far too passive and we seemed to prefer side on tackles to knocking them back.

When we did have the ball Laidlaw box kicked it (pretty much every time) too far. What's the ruddy point? If we're in our own half don't box kick, drill it down the line and pin them back. This was a theme of the warmups and I'm deeply concerned that it's continuing. All we do is give them counter attack ball in our own half!

Second half was much better. Of course fatigue will play a part (although over half the Japanese team were fresh!), but it looked more like a case of us waking up. Missed restart aside, I thought having Richie Gray on made a big difference. He always knocks the man backwards and was far better than the wet rag that is Gilchrist - who made a pretty pathetic 5 tackles in 50 minutes - none of which stopped the player in his tracks. Gray made 8 in just 30.

On the subject of deeply underwhelming displays I can't not mention Wilson. It's still a mystery to me why he's been picked. I've not seen him do a single thing of note in a blue shirt ever. In 56 minutes, most of which were in defence, he made a pathetic 6 tackles. He also made 1 single meter in attack from 3 runs. For a 6 that's shameful. In contrast the Japanese back rowers made 24, 49 and 90 meters each!

Personally I'm sick of Cotter banging on about how mobile he is. It's bull.

It looked much better when Strauss came on. He made 8 big tackles in just 24 minutes.

All that said I'm happy with a win as I was seriously sweating at half time.

by TJ Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:28 pm

George Carlin wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Good job Japan are not playing their first choice XV.
Ah, here now Tighthead. Would be a shame to ban you in the middle of a game for your jedi knight levels of wummery, but we will if we have to.

It amused me.

by TJ Wed 23 Sep 2015, 11:42 pm

I just came in and watched the game.

Japan played some good rugby - very fast and full of running. Got Scotland back on their heels in defence and played the territory well

Laidlaw say what you - his long passing today was great. Every one. Pinpoint. with zipp

Scotland had to make 185 tackles - missing twelve ( ford half of those). Thats one hell of a defensive shift and they kept Japan out bar one utterly beautiful driven lineout. Hardie looked good. Russell and Bennett looked real class. Looked like a team playing and the backs especially in attack were all on the same wavelength.

Its a good performace from scotlland. Japan threw the kitchen sink at Scotland and looked worth their win over SA but in the end Scotland put them away

by blackcanelion Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:02 am

You have to wonder how Japan might have gone if they hadn't been inflicted with such a short turn around from the SA game. I wonder if the short turn around times for minor nations, Wales home games, player qualification/release issues pretty much mean Ireland won't be awarded the 2023 world cup. I know it leaves a bad taste for nations outside the home nations.

by SecretFly Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:07 am

So we'd pay the price of another Nation's hosting issues? I don't figure.

by TJ Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:07 am

Scottish fans - remember this is the first time in ages we have beaten anyone ranked above us Erm

by TJ Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:08 am

Scotland have a short recovery into their next game. Everyone gets a turn

by blackcanelion Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:31 am

SF. I think Ireland's issue will be separating themselves from the other home nations in the minds of other unions. Fair point TJ I should have looked. I have to say I think it's ridiculous that any side should have to play 2 games in 4 days at this competition. Probably a bit over the top. Thought Lacy should probably have carded a Scots player for offside. Defensively their defensive line spent a fair amount of time offside at rucks, I pinged them for a bit in the second half. I though the Japanese were a tad unlucky with his rulings at the scrum.

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:25 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Well having seen the game now I must say I was pretty impressed with Scotland. Hardie and Denton were outstanding with the rest of the pack pretty solid. Laidlaw was outstanding and made a complete fool of a number of posters on here. Russell was pretty creative, Scott is looking sharper with each game, Bennett and Hogg were dangerous and the wingers both did what was asked.

I think we could open things up a bit more and be a bit more aggressive in attack, but frankly put we didn't need to today against that Japan team. 5 points n the bag with no injuries. Nice.

As always, effortlessly eloquent... If I'm ever in trouble with the law (hailing from Fife it is a distinct possibility at some point) I want you to be my defence councillor...

Well given that he's a financial services lawyer unless you are highly corrupt, bankrupted an entire nation, stole candy from a baby, drowned a sack of pandas, blew up Alderaan with a death star, stole the one true ring of power or kicked a unicorn in the plums then I don't think he can be of much help to you!

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:57 am

On Laidlaw, I admit he played well on balance and certainly made a point to his detractors, myself among them.

However, outstanding? Really? Had you watched only the second half, then maybe. But, along with most of the team, in the first half he was mediocre. We spent far too long camped in our 22 largely because the exit strategy and tactical kicking from 9 and 10 weren't allowing us to relieve the Japanese pressure.

Much as his some of his interplay with runners off his shoulder was excellent in the second half, and his goal kicking which rarely falters, to rate someone outstanding for performing in 50% of a match seems wide of the mark for me. He gets a 'pretty good, but with areas for improvement' from me, and I would certainly afford him the chance to do so against SA.

by InjuredYetAgain Thu 24 Sep 2015, 7:59 am

Add "grossly overcharged his financial service provider clients" to the rap sheet

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:44 am

I'm putting together a USA match thread in case anyone was planning on soon

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 8:57 am

https://www.606v2.com/t60677-scotland-v-usa-27th-september#3156528

by EWT Spoons Thu 24 Sep 2015, 9:08 am

I found this interesting

Scotland v Japan, 23 September - Page 15 Lu06bdg

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 9:10 am

EWT Spoons wrote:I found this interesting

Very interesting - I think that deserves a thread on its own!

by R!skysports Thu 24 Sep 2015, 9:24 am

Ok, watched the game again this morning and not quite as bad as I thought when watching at work on a TV 20 feet away :-0

Some concerns still

Re-starts - why are we so bad at that
Possession - still too little - we will struggle against better teams if we only ever have 40%
First half was a bit pants in periods - but we grew into it (Not just because they were tired)
Wilson - was terrible. Every person ran threw him, even when he tackled he was passive - terrible

Positives

Russel is the real deal - think he is becoming on of the best NH 10's
Laidlaw actually played well - if he keeps playing like that - positive and limited box kicking, he may change my mind (I am good that way)
Strauss is now Scottish

We won - -WON
Bonus point WIN
No Injuries in a WIN

by fa0019 Thu 24 Sep 2015, 10:04 am

My only beef with the entire performance was how they allowed Japan to control tempo for much of the match. The line discipline wasn't great either.

Conditions looked difficult, ball swirled around, Fords massive overthrow (about 3ft above target), Greys mis-restart, Scotts kick straight out)... it was a big game and those things were inexcusable.

However overall the guys played very well overall. Bar the first one, they stopped Japan's 12 man mauls and were clinical in attack. Sets them up nicely.

by jimbopip Thu 24 Sep 2015, 10:18 am

Riskysports wrote:Ok, watched the game again this morning and not quite as bad as I thought when watching at work on a TV 20 feet away :-0

Some concerns still

Re-starts - why are we so bad at that
Possession - still too little - we will struggle against better teams if we only ever have 40% Frodo box kicked the first three possessions Scotland had. After that I stopped counting. Maybe it was the gameplan; give them the ball and attack on turnovers, but as you say against a better team we will get malkied.
First half was a bit pants in periods - but we grew into it (Not just because they were tired)
Wilson - was terrible. Every person ran threw him, even when he tackled he was passive - terrible Given that Batman, or Bluto, will have to cover for Hardie when BVC rotates against USA and Samoa or Yooessay this is a worry.

Positives

Russel is the real deal - think he is becoming on of the best NH 10'sNobby Stiles said of the 1966 World Cup, "My job was simple, win the ball and give it to Bobby Charlton. The Scotland 1-9 would do well to see Dancer in that light.
Laidlaw actually played well - if he keeps playing like that - positive and limited box kicking, he may change my mind (I am good that way)I still think he's the third best in the squad, fourth if Shrek decides he's had enough time in the front row.
Strauss is now Scottish

We won - -WON
Bonus point WIN
No Injuries in a WIN

by TJ Thu 24 Sep 2015, 10:29 am

fa0019 wrote: Greys mis-restart,

I think they tried a trick play. It was a deliberate dummy to the wing running in behind the group of forwards but they bollocked it Perhaps?

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

It was a clear balls up IMO. It happened the restart after that as well but luckily someone was standing behind them and was able to catch it.

I think it was radge that asked why there are fannying about doing that - if they kick long and there is plenty time before the defence is on you, why not just catch it and deal with it instead of organising two lifters and a jumper!

If you are lifting someone you need to be pin-point accurate. If you are just catching it you have room to react to the flight of the ball.

by R!skysports Thu 24 Sep 2015, 11:06 am

jimbopip wrote:
Riskysports wrote:Ok, watched the game again this morning and not quite as bad as I thought when watching at work on a TV 20 feet away :-0

Some concerns still

Re-starts - why are we so bad at that
Possession - still too little - we will struggle against better teams if we only ever have 40% Frodo box kicked the first three possessions Scotland had. After that I stopped counting. Maybe it was the gameplan; give them the ball and attack on turnovers, but as you say against a better team we will get malkied.
First half was a bit pants in periods - but we grew into it (Not just because they were tired)
Wilson - was terrible. Every person ran threw him, even when he tackled he was passive - terrible Given that Batman, or Bluto, will have to cover for Hardie when BVC rotates against USA and Samoa or Yooessay this is a worry.

Positives

Russel is the real deal - think he is becoming on of the best NH 10'sNobby Stiles said of the 1966 World Cup, "My job was simple, win the ball and give it to Bobby Charlton. The Scotland 1-9 would do well to see Dancer in that light.
Laidlaw actually played well - if he keeps playing like that - positive and limited box kicking, he may change my mind (I am good that way)I still think he's the third best in the squad, fourth if Shrek decides he's had enough time in the front row.
Strauss is now Scottish

We won - -WON
Bonus point WIN
No Injuries in a WIN

Another positive - jimbopip did a quote function correctly Very Happy

by funnyExiledScot Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:08 pm

Riskysports wrote:Ok, watched the game again this morning and not quite as bad as I thought when watching at work on a TV 20 feet away :-0

Some concerns still

Re-starts - why are we so bad at that
Possession - still too little - we will struggle against better teams if we only ever have 40%
First half was a bit pants in periods - but we grew into it (Not just because they were tired)
Wilson - was terrible. Every person ran threw him, even when he tackled he was passive - terrible

Positives

Russel is the real deal - think he is becoming on of the best NH 10's
Laidlaw actually played well - if he keeps playing like that - positive and limited box kicking, he may change my mind (I am good that way)
Strauss is now Scottish

We won - -WON
Bonus point WIN
No Injuries in a WIN

Who are you and what have you done with Ralph Risk??

by funnyExiledScot Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:14 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Well having seen the game now I must say I was pretty impressed with Scotland. Hardie and Denton were outstanding with the rest of the pack pretty solid. Laidlaw was outstanding and made a complete fool of a number of posters on here. Russell was pretty creative, Scott is looking sharper with each game, Bennett and Hogg were dangerous and the wingers both did what was asked.

I think we could open things up a bit more and be a bit more aggressive in attack, but frankly put we didn't need to today against that Japan team. 5 points n the bag with no injuries. Nice.

As always, effortlessly eloquent... If I'm ever in trouble with the law (hailing from Fife it is a distinct possibility at some point) I want you to be my defence councillor...

Well given that he's a financial services lawyer unless you are highly corrupt, bankrupted an entire nation, stole candy from a baby, drowned a sack of pandas, blew up Alderaan with a death star, stole the one true ring of power or kicked a unicorn in the plums then I don't think he can be of much help to you!

Ouch!! So much hostility towards such a noble profession. Lawyers are the guardians of justice and liberty.

I see myself as a modern day Atticus Finch, without all the UKIPPY stuff in the second novel.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 24 Sep 2015, 12:52 pm

Just discovered that from tomorrow Japan's training base will be just down the road from me, but they aren't holding any public training sessions. Real shame as I would've liked to have gone and seen them trained, they're obviously a very well coached outfit and it would've been nice to have met some of the players and congratulated them on their performances so far

by **Notch** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 1:00 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I found this interesting

Very interesting - I think that deserves a thread on its own!

England, Ireland, Italy and Samoa with the best schedules. It is strange that no top seed has the most favourable schedule. 7 days is perfect turnaround. 10 days is too long. Anything less than 6 is the worst.

by SecretFly Thu 24 Sep 2015, 1:56 pm

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Just discovered that from tomorrow Japan's training base will be just down the road from me, but they aren't holding any public training sessions. Real shame as I would've liked to have gone and seen them trained, they're obviously a very well coached outfit and it would've been nice to have met some of the players and congratulated them on their performances so far

Judging by Jones's attitudes to the game and to losing... I think it might be best for all potential spectators that the door is firmly closed. I'm not sure the players would be allowed take congratulations for a game won after having lost the last one so badly. Jones will have some sympathy for the injury to Mafi and the exhaustion levels with only four days between games... but I think he'll be in a pis-sed off mood. He talked a lot in the lead-in and his team didn't back it up. He has history.

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 1:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Just discovered that from tomorrow Japan's training base will be just down the road from me, but they aren't holding any public training sessions. Real shame as I would've liked to have gone and seen them trained, they're obviously a very well coached outfit and it would've been nice to have met some of the players and congratulated them on their performances so far

Judging by Jones's attitudes to the game and to losing... I think it might be best for all potential spectators that the door is firmly closed. I'm not sure the players would be allowed take congratulations for a game won after having lost the last one so badly. Jones will have some sympathy for the injury to Mafi and the exhaustion levels with only four days between games... but I think he'll be in a pis-sed off mood. He talked a lot in the lead-in and his team didn't back it up. He has history.

I doubt he'll be as angry as Saint-Andre at HT yesterday!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1r8BGTWij8

by SecretFly Thu 24 Sep 2015, 2:07 pm

You think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qubao1O6Ldc

you have to listen to it all to get the effect.

by alive555 Thu 24 Sep 2015, 6:19 pm

This is great bit of locker room video shot after the match.

http://thescotlandteam.com/2015/09/23/2015-scotlands-world-cup-episode-13/

by **RDW** Thu 24 Sep 2015, 6:21 pm

alive555 wrote:This is great bit of locker room video shot after the match.

http://thescotlandteam.com/2015/09/23/2015-scotlands-world-cup-episode-13/

They could do with working on their singing voices!

by alive555 Thu 24 Sep 2015, 6:33 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
alive555 wrote:This is great bit of locker room video shot after the match.

http://thescotlandteam.com/2015/09/23/2015-scotlands-world-cup-episode-13/

They could do with working on their singing voices!

this is how its supposed to be done

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