606 Selects Englands EPS for 2016 6Ns

Typically the EPS consists around 34 players, broken down into 5 props, 3 hookers, 4 second row, 6 back row, 3 SHs, 3 FHs, 4 centres and 6 back 3 players.

So can we do a better job than the 3 monkeys who will be doing it this season?

The Process:

We all select 3 full 23 man match day squads, ranking them 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice.
Players will be assigned points 3 for being in a 1st choice squad down to 1 for being in a 3rd choice squad.
Points will be added up and players divided between EPS and Saxons based on the values and obtaining an "ideal" mix of positions.

1st Squad:

Marler, Mako, Hartley, George, Cole, Brookes, Launchbury, Lawes, Kitchener, Robshaw, Kvesic, BillyV, Morgan
Youngs, Care, Ford, Farrell, Slade, Joseph, May, Watson, Brown, Nowell



2nd Squad:

Mullan, Auterac, Youngs, Webber, Thomas, Wilson (D), Slater, Kruis, Attwood, Itoje, Wood, Fraser, Haskell
Robson, Dickson, Cipriani, Burns, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Roku, Yarde, Goode, foden


3rd Squad:

Waller, Corbs, LCD, Haywood, sinkler, Balmain, Symons, Myall, Garvey, Ewers, Clifford, Hughes, Croft
Simpson, Harrison, Myler, Lozowski, Eastmond, Burrell, Daly, Ashton, Wade, Tait.



not fully finalised as rushed

1st

Marler, Mako, Hartley, George, Cole, Brookes
Launchbury, Lawes, Kitchener
Robshaw, Kvesic, Vunipola, Morgan
Care, Youngs
Ford, Farrell
Slade, Joseph, Burrell
May, Watson, Brown,

2nd
Corbisiero, Mullan, Youngs, Webber, Thomas, Wilson
Slater, Attwood, Kruis
Itoje, Fraser, Wood, Haskell
Wiggles, Dickson
Cipriani, Myler
Tuilagi, Daly
Yarde, Nowell, Foden, Wade

3rd
Waller, Auterac, LCD, Haywood, Sinckler, Wilson
Symons, Garvey, Barrow
Ewers, Hughes, Clark, Croft
Simpson, Chudley
Burns, Jennings?
Twelvetrees, Devoto, Hill
Roko, Earle, Tait

Guessing we are free to change our sides as club games go on? I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of mine changed during the European games especially!

First choice:

1.Marler 2.George 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Kitchener 6.Robshaw 7.Kvesic 8.Morgan
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Slade 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown
16.Hartley 17.Mako 18.D Wilson 19.Lawes 20.Billy V 21.Care 22.Tuilagi 23.Nowell

Second choice:

1.Mullan 2.Youngs 3.Thomas 4.Slater 5.Attwood 6.Itoje 7.Fraser 8.Haskell
9.Robson 10.Farrell 11.Roko 12.Burrell 13.Daly 14.Wade 15.Pennell
16.Webber 17.Auterac 18.Brookes 19.Kruis 20.Ewers 21.Simpson 22.Cipriani 23.Foden

Third choice:

1.Waller 2.Haywood 3.Sinckler 4.Garvey 5.Symons 6.Wood 7.Clifford 8.Beaumont
9.Dickson 10.Burns 11.Yarde 12.Eastmond 13.Lowe 14.Ashton 15.Tait
16.LCD 17.Corbs 18.S Wilson 19.Myall 20.Croft 21.Harrison 22.Twelvetrees 23.Goode

1st

Marler, Mako, Hartley, George, Cole, Brookes
Launchbury, Attwood, Kitchener
Robshaw, Kvesic, Vunipola, Morgan
Care, Youngs
Ford, Farrell
Slade, Joseph, Burrell
May, Watson, Brown,

2nd
Waller, Mullan, Youngs, Taylor, Thomas, Wilson
Slater, Lawes, Kruis
Itoje, Fraser, Ewers, Haskell
Simpson, Dickson
Cipriani, Burns
Tuilagi, Daly, Hill
Nowell, Roko, Wade

3rd
Waller, Auterac, LCD, Haywood, Sinckler, Wilson
Symons, Garvey, Barrow
M.Wilson, Beaumont, Clark, Wallace
Wigglesworth, ??
Catterick, Geraghty
Chris Harris, Devoto, Hill
Foden, Earle, Tait

Could we move Roko to 12? Pace, aggression, power...hows his handling?

Interesting some differences already.

Also interesting no one bar me has selected young Sale Hooker Taylor. His set piece stats I think are nearly at 100% for both scrum and lineout.

Maybe I need a re-think.

Really like this idea, and I will post mine as soon as I have some spare time.

In the meantime, are people pretty set on the idea that we've seen the end of Tom Wood?

I think Wood is down the line now. Bar his lineout work he hasn't shown the form of some time / years ago. Others are showing better.

However if he should come back to form, then he may put himself in the picture in a more balanced pack.

Fair enough.

I think if the world cup has shown us one thing, it's that at the elite level, players need to offer more than just being workhorses. Wood and Robshaw initially looked great paired together because they simply outworked other backrows. At the world cup though, other teams and players raised their game and their 'x-factors' became the point of difference. We simply didn't have another level to go to. Pocock, Warburton, Hooper, and Hardie's breakdown work became their point of difference. Kaino, Burger, and Fardy offered uncompromising physicality and carrying. Wood and Robshaw were maxed out.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting some differences already.

Also interesting no one bar me has selected young Sale Hooker Taylor. His set piece stats I think are nearly at 100% for both scrum and lineout.

Maybe I need a re-think.

I think George has the highest lineout stats in the AP at around 95% GF

I shall do this after the Quins game tonight, where I'll either pick nearly the whole Harlequins side, or none of them...

1. Marler/Waller/Auterac
2. Hartley/George/Taylor
3. Cole/Wilson/Thomas
4. Launchbury/Slater/Attwood
5. Kitchener/Symons/Lawes
6. Armitage/Itoje/?
7. Kvesic/Fraser/Clifford
8. Vuinipola/Morgan/?

9. Youngs/Care/Robson
10. Ford/Cipriani/Farrell
11. Nowell/May/Yarde
12. Tuilagi/Slade/Devoto
13. Joseph/Tuilagi/Daly
14. Watson/Ashton/Wade
15. Brown/Watson/Pennell

Nathan Hughes is EQ in June next year.

I'm assuming French-based players aren't ruled out for us?

I've also included injured players, as the EPS system encourages picking injured players and then calling up injury cover.

1st 23:
Mako, Marler, Youngs, Hartley, Brookes, Cole
Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje
Croft, Armitage, Vunipola, Kvesic
Youngs, Care
Ford, Slade
Tuilagi, Joseph
May, Watson, Brown, Nowell.

2nd 23:
Corbisiero, Mullan, George, Cowan-Dickie, Wilson, Sinckler
Slater, Parling, Attwood
Robshaw, Fraser, Morgan, Wood
Simpson, Dickson
Cipriani, Farrell
Burrell, Daly, Eastmond
Yarde, Wade, Goode

3rd "23" (I haven't picked a full 23. I have just picked players I'd like to see in the Saxons not listed above. I'm not going to pad out a full 23 with players I'm not fussed about)
Auterac, Waller
Kruis, Kitchener
Ewers, Clifford, Beaumont
*no scrum-halves*
*no fly-halves*
Devoto, Hill
Rokodoguni, Foden

No place for Webber, Haskell, Easter, Wigglesworth, Barritt or Burgess from the World Cup squad.

First:

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Graham Kitchener
05. Joe Launchbury
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Matt Kvesic
08. Billy Vunipola

09. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford

11. Jack Nowell
12. Henry Slade
13. Jon Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. David Wilson
18. Mako Vunipola
19. Matt Garvey
20. Billy Vunipola
21. Danny Care
22. Owen Farrell
23. Elliott Daly

Second:

01. Matt Mullan/Alex Corbisero
02. Tom Youngs
03. Kieran Brookes
04. Ed Slater
05. Dave Attwood
06. Jack Clifford
07. Will Fraser
08. Dave Ewers

09. Joe Simpson
10. Danny Cipriani

11. Jonny May
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Marland Yarde
15. Ben Foden

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Nick Auterac
18. Henry Thomas
19. Courtney Lawes
20. James Haskell
21. Alex Goode
22. Christian Wade
23. Chris Pennell

Third:

01. Alex Waller
02. Tommy Taylor
03. Kyle Sinckler
04. Maro itoje
05. George Kruis
06. Tom Wood
07. Luke Wallace
08. Josh Beaumont

09. Will Chudley
10. Freddie Burns

11. Adam Thompstone
12. Tom Stephenson
13. Luther Burrell
14. Jamie Elliott
15. Simon Hammersley

16. Jack Yandle
17. Fraser Balmain
18. Scott Wilson
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Tom Savage
21. Stuart Townsend
22. Sam Hill
23. Tom Homer

Cumbrian wrote:First:

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Graham Kitchener
05. Joe Launchbury
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Matt Kvesic
08. Billy Vunipola

09. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford

11. Jack Nowell
12. Henry Slade
13. Jon Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. David Wilson
18. Mako Vunipola
19. Matt Garvey
20. Billy Vunipola
21. Danny Care
22. Owen Farrell
23. Elliott Daly

Second:

01. Matt Mullan/Alex Corbisero
02. Tom Youngs
03. Kieran Brookes
04. Ed Slater
05. Dave Attwood
06. Jack Clifford
07. Will Fraser
08. Dave Ewers

09. Joe Simpson
10. Danny Cipriani

11. Jonny May
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Marland Yarde
15. Ben Foden

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Nick Auterac
18. Henry Thomas
19. Courtney Lawes
20. James Haskell
21. Alex Goode
22. Christian Wade
23. Chris Pennell

Third:

01. Alex Waller
02. Tommy Taylor
03. Kyle Sinckler
04. Maro itoje
05. George Kruis
06. Tom Wood
07. Luke Wallace
08. Josh Beaumont

09. Will Chudley
10. Freddie Burns

11. Adam Thompstone
12. Tom Stephenson
13. Luther Burrell
14. Jamie Elliott
15. Simon Hammersley

16. Jack Yandle
17. Fraser Balmain
18. Scott Wilson
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Tom Savage
21. Stuart Townsend
22. Sam Hill
23. Tom Homer

Cutting Billy in half to get 2 normal sized players or does Ben Morgan need to be shoehorned in somewhere?

1) Mullan, Marler, Brookes, Cole (just), Hartley, George, Launchbury, Lawes, Itoje, Robshaw, Fraser, Morgan, Billy V, Care, Youngs, Ford, Slade, Tuilagi, Joseph, May, Watson, Brown, Nowell

2) Corbisiero, Mako, Wilson, Thomas, Youngs, Webber, Attwood, Parling, Kruis, Wood,
Kvesic, Easter (Hughes once he's available), Haskell, Simpson, Wrigglesworth, Farrell, Cipriani, Burrell, Daly, Yarde, Wade, Pennell, Tait

3) Waller, Auterac, Ward, LCD, Balmain, Sinckler, Garvey, Slater, Stooke, Clifford, Clarke, Ewers, Dickson, Chudley, Burns, Lowoski, Devoto, Eastmond, Goode, Roko, Foden, Ashton

This was quite a tough task to try and pick 3 match day squads rather than a group of 50 or 60 players.  I wouldn't say the squads are particularly well balanced - a bit Lancasteresque in the back subs department.  There are quite a few up and coming players in there - the likes of Spencer and Robson at 9 as I think the time for the likes of Wigglesworth has been and well and truly gone.  Also at tighthead we seem to lack real depth, so the likes of Sinkler and Cooper-Woolley are in there.  I have dropped a few players down based on the fact they have an injury - Tuilagi would be in my 1st team IF fit, Lawes because he always seems to be injured.  Hartley for indiscipline.

I don't think you can have Marler and Mako as your 1st team loose heads, as they are both below average at scrumtime for me.  Corbisiero if fit and in form would be first choice, but as he is neither I would go with Mullan.

Nathan Hughes would be my 1st choice No 8 as soon as he is qualified as both Billy V and Morgan are too one dimensional for me.  I appreciate that this arises from the lack of ball carrying strength elsewhere, but I think George, Launchbury, Attwood and Ewers can and should be able to carry and Hughes is no shrinking violet in that department.

1st 23
1. Mullan
2. George
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Attwood
6. Ewers
7. Kvesic
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Slade
11. Watson
12. Burrell
13. Joseph
14. Nowell
15. Brown
16. Marler
17. Youngs
18. Thomas
19. Itoje
20. Clifford
21. Care
22. Ford
23. May

2nd 23
1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Wilson
4. Slater
5. Lawes
6. Robshaw
7. Fraser
8. Morgan
9. Simpson
10. Cipriani
11. Wade
12. Tuilagi
13. Hill
14. Yarde
15. Foden
16. Waller
17. Cowan-Dickie
18. Brookes
19. Kitchener
20. Croft
21. Robson
22. Farrell
23. Daly

3rd 23
1. Corbisiero
2. Yeandle
3. Cooper-Woolley
4. Kruis
5. Barrow
6. Garvey
7. Armitage
8. Dickinson
9. Spencer
10. Myler
11. Rokodeguni
12. Barritt
13. Twelvetrees
14. Ashton
15. Abendenon
16. Auterac
17. Batty
18. Sinkler
19. Paterson
20. Wood
21. Dickson
22. Mordt
23. Devoto

Think you mean Nathan Hughes rather than the killer.

lostinwales wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:First:

01. Joe Marler
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Dan Cole
04. Graham Kitchener
05. Joe Launchbury
06. Chris Robshaw
07. Matt Kvesic
08. Billy Vunipola

09. Ben Youngs
10. George Ford

11. Jack Nowell
12. Henry Slade
13. Jon Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Mike Brown

16. Jamie George
17. David Wilson
18. Mako Vunipola
19. Matt Garvey
20. Billy Vunipola
21. Danny Care
22. Owen Farrell
23. Elliott Daly

Second:

01. Matt Mullan/Alex Corbisero
02. Tom Youngs
03. Kieran Brookes
04. Ed Slater
05. Dave Attwood
06. Jack Clifford
07. Will Fraser
08. Dave Ewers

09. Joe Simpson
10. Danny Cipriani

11. Jonny May
12. Ollie Devoto
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Marland Yarde
15. Ben Foden

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Nick Auterac
18. Henry Thomas
19. Courtney Lawes
20. James Haskell
21. Alex Goode
22. Christian Wade
23. Chris Pennell

Third:

01. Alex Waller
02. Tommy Taylor
03. Kyle Sinckler
04. Maro itoje
05. George Kruis
06. Tom Wood
07. Luke Wallace
08. Josh Beaumont

09. Will Chudley
10. Freddie Burns

11. Adam Thompstone
12. Tom Stephenson
13. Luther Burrell
14. Jamie Elliott
15. Simon Hammersley

16. Jack Yandle
17. Fraser Balmain
18. Scott Wilson
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Tom Savage
21. Stuart Townsend
22. Sam Hill
23. Tom Homer

Cutting Billy in half to get 2 normal sized players or does Ben Morgan need to be shoehorned in somewhere?

Ooops! Meant Morgan on the bench. Not a case of 'shoehorning', he is a very good player and has good impact from the bench.

O'conner at 7?

Nothing like getting on the bandwagon early lol

1: Marler, Corbs, Hartley, George, Cole, Wilson; Attwood, Kitchener, Launchbury; Ewers, Kvesic, Armitage, Vunipola; Youngs, Care; Ford, Cipriani, Slade, Joseph, Eastmond; May, Watson, Bendy

2: Vunipola, Mullan, Youngs, Taylor, Brookes, Thomas; Lawes, Symons, Slater; Itoje, Fraser, Morgan, Clifford; Dickson, Robson; Flood, Burns; Tuilagi, Daly, Trinder; Nowell, Roko, Goode

3: Waller, Auterac, Webber, LCD, Sinckler, PDJ (seriously!!); Kruis, Savage, Garvey; Wood, Clarke, Wallace, Seymour; Simpson, Wiggy; Myler, Farrell; 36, Burrell, Hill; Wade, Yarde, Brown

As the salary cap is clearly being ignored I see no reason to stick with the overseas rule as it was only there to keep wages down. I'd also have as many proper 7s involved as possible.

Itoje..... Lock or Blindside? He seems very similar to where Launchbury was at a few years back where he can play both to a good standard at club level but hasn't fully settled on a position yet as he's still developing physically.

Who can refuse a bandwagon. I probably watch more Super Rugby than I do AP and have always been impressed with O'Connor especially last night. When I lived there I met the the Highlanders players on a few occasions and they always spoke very highly of him. Once settled I have no doubt he could be a great player for England.

Excluding French based players:

1st 23
Marler, Vunipola, Hartley, George, Cole, Brookes
Launchbury, Lawes, Kitchener
Robshaw, O'Connor, Vunipola, Clifford
Youngs, Care
Ford, Slade
Joseph, Tuilagi
May, Watson, Nowell, Brown

2nd 23
Auterac, Mullan, Youngs, Cowan-Dickie, Thomas, Cooper Woolley
Attwood, Slater, Itoje
Ewers, Kvesic, Wallace, Morgan
Robson, Simpson
Cipriani, Farrell
Hill, Burrell, Daly
Yarde, Rokoduguni, Pennell

3rd 23
Hepburn, Waller, Taylor, Haywood, Wilson, Sinckler
Barrow, Symons, Kruis
Garvey, Haskell, Fraser, Beaumont
Dickson, Harrison
Burns, Lozowski
Eastmond, Devoto, James
Wade, Thompstone, Foden

Will start to do the maths for this tomorrow, so still time to have an input.

so 11 people had a go and 115 different players were selected. We can rerun this after the next set of euro games, but as it stands our EPS would be:

Marler, Mako, Mullan
Hartley, George, Youngs
Cole, Brookes, Wilson(D)
Launchbury, Lawes, Kitchener, Attwood
BillyV, Kvesic, Morgan, Robshaw, Itoje, Fraser
Youngs, Care, Simpson
Ford, Farrell, Cipriani
Slade, Joseph, Manu, Daly
Watson, Brown, May, Nowell, Wade, Yarde


Notes:
Players in Bold were in everyones first team squad.
Itoje was selected as both 2nd and Back row. His combined total was below the second rows listed. Dave Ewers was the next highest ranked Back rower.
Foden was the next ranked FB if we wanted a second specialist.

So no consistency on the hookers then?

HammerofThunor wrote:So no consistency on the hookers then?

It's a very open spot, t. Youngs has a few throwing issues. Hartley has discipline issues and George is still unknown at international level

Decent squad. Need to retrain JJ or Manu as a 12 though for it

So O'Conner, Nathan Hughes, Roko, Hartley, Billy V, Manu etc etc

We could have a team with the same accent as Jones to make him feel at home....

GeordieFalcon wrote:So O'Conner, Nathan Hughes, Roko, Hartley, Billy V, Manu etc etc

We could have a team with the same accent as Jones to make him feel at home....

In fairness, Manu has a Hinckley accent lol

And Billy V certainly doesn't have an Antepodian accent

ChequeredJersey wrote:And Billy V certainly doesn't have an Antepodian accent

Nor does he have the Welsh accent Mako has

HammerofThunor wrote:So no consistency on the hookers then?

Well there was really. Both Hartley and George were rated 1 or 2 by all but one respondent. Each had a poster (different) who dropped them to third choice.

More interestingly, the most common selection of first choice locks was Launchbury & Kitchener. however one person did not consider Kitch among England's best 9 players in the position, so Lawes scored marginally higher through consistency of selection.

There was also no real consistency in who people wanted at 6. Robshaw scored the highest, followed by Ewers and Itoje/Haskell - but the second row votes got Itoje into the boards squad.


Of course if done now there would be big changes - but we can wait till after Euro round 4 to try again

LondonTiger wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:So no consistency on the hookers then?

Well there was really. Both Hartley and George were rated 1 or 2 by all but one respondent. Each had a poster (different) who dropped them to third choice.

More interestingly, the most common selection of first choice locks was Launchbury & Kitchener. however one person did not consider Kitch among England's best 9 players in the position, so Lawes scored marginally higher through consistency of selection.

There was also no real consistency in who people wanted at 6. Robshaw scored the highest, followed by Ewers and Itoje/Haskell - but the second row votes got Itoje into the boards squad.


Of course if done now there would be big changes - but we can wait till after Euro round 4 to try again

Sorry, I completely forgot about Kitchener...

He would be ahead of Stooke at the very least for a place in my 3 squads certainly, probably a fair bit up the list

LondonTiger wrote:so 11 people had a go and 115 different players were selected. We can rerun this after the next set of euro games, but as it stands our EPS would be:

Marler, Mako, Mullan
Hartley, George, Youngs
Cole, Brookes, Wilson(D)
Launchbury, Lawes, Kitchener, Attwood
BillyV, Kvesic, Morgan, Robshaw, Itoje, Fraser
Youngs, Care, Simpson
Ford, Farrell, Cipriani
Slade, Joseph, Manu, Daly
Watson, Brown, May, Nowell, Wade, Yarde


Notes:
Players in Bold were in everyones first team squad.
Itoje was selected as both 2nd and Back row. His combined total was below the second rows listed. Dave Ewers was the next highest ranked Back rower.
Foden was the next ranked FB if we wanted a second specialist.

With Watson and Daly and Cipriani covering 15, don't need a specialist

Vunipola
Hartley
Brookes
Itoje
Launcberry
Croft
O'Conner
Vunipola
Care
Ford
Nowell
Tuilagi
Slade
Watson
Brown

Cole
Cowan-Dickie
Marler
Lawes
Ewers
Morgan
Simpson
Farrell
Joseph

Mullan
George
Corbs
Attwood
Kitchener
Robshaw
Fraser
Waldrom
Youngs
Cipraini
Wade
Hill
Daly
Yarde
Goode

Going purely on this weekends games you cant leave Auterac and Henry Thomas out?

Indeed Thomas looked very impressive whilst Auterac was MOM.

And Mullan will challenge for starting spot if he continues his form.

Its going to be great to monitor everyones form over the next month or so.

bluestonevedder wrote:Fair enough.

I think if the world cup has shown us one thing, it's that at the elite level, players need to offer more than just being workhorses. Wood and Robshaw initially looked great paired together because they simply outworked other backrows. At the world cup though, other teams and players raised their game and their 'x-factors' became the point of difference. We simply didn't have another level to go to. Pocock, Warburton, Hooper, and Hardie's breakdown work became their point of difference. Kaino, Burger, and Fardy offered uncompromising physicality and carrying. Wood and Robshaw were maxed out.

In fairness to Wood and Robshaw, we have already agreed there was something likely in training which underpowered the entire pack. This would impact not just the scrums but all aspects of play in which strength, speed, and quick reactions are needed. So I don't think we should judge the physicals of any of the forwards based upon the RWC.

I would bet Robshaw is coming back playing for Quins. Wood has just had two excellent games for Saints, his best two games in a long time, by the way.

I've said for a long time that Henry Thomas deserves to be in the EPS. He's had a few caps here and there, but he deserves a proper shot. Very underrated scrummager in my opinion.

It looks like Thomas's time at Bath is worthwhile...Mr Booth is improving his scrummaging no end certainly on that performance.

Of course its just one game.

After the RWC a few of us suggested that Thomas might surpass Wilson for club and country this season. I think that's now happening even quicker than expected.

He's always been a strong carrier with excellent handling skills. Since working with Booth and some experienced props at Bath he seems to have really developed his scrummaging as well.

Personally I'd have him ahead of Brookes as well as Davey Wilson now.

One issue with the props is whether we take 3 loose heads or 3 tight heads?

The EPS usually only has room for 5 props so you end up with two of one and three of the other.

LH - Marler, Mako, Mullan, Auterac, Waller

TH - Cole, Thomas, Brookes

Given how well Mullan is playing it would be a tough call to leave him out but doing so with only 2 LHs would mean probably dropping Mako - also harsh IMO.

Only 2 THs on the other hand would mean picking between Thomas and Brookes - both are playing well at the minute. Or dropping Cole, which personally I'd view as throwing the baby out with the bath water given we want continuity where possible.

king_carlos wrote:One issue with the props is whether we take 3 loose heads or 3 tight heads?

The EPS usually only has room for 5 props so you end up with two of one and three of the other.

LH - Marler, Mako, Mullan, Auterac, Waller

TH - Cole, Thomas, Brookes

Given how well Mullan is playing it would be a tough call to leave him out but doing so with only 2 LHs would mean probably dropping Mako - also harsh IMO.

Only 2 THs on the other hand would mean picking between Thomas and Brookes - both are playing well at the minute. Or dropping Cole, which personally I'd view as throwing the baby out with the bath water given we want continuity where possible.

Is that the EPS which is limited to 5 propos? Or just the RWC roster which was limited to 31 players in total? I'm not sure, but I think the EPS is larger than the RWC squad. Hope so..........

Cole is looking better again at Tigers isn't he?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Cole is looking better again at Tigers isn't he?

Depends who you listen to. The typical Saint's fan (WPI ) will tell you he has been rubbish.

But I am happy with him so far. 3 starts since the WC against Wasps, Exeter and Stade. Leicester were clearly superior at scrum time against the first and last, but struggled a little with Exeter. Primarily this was in the LH side where stand-in Balmain struggled with Francis, but the whole pack should shoulder responsibility.

Is he at his best? No.

Is he close? Probably not yet.

Is he playing better than he did at the RWC? Most definitely yes.


This sunday will be informative. Ayerza, Youngs & cole vs Auterac, Webber and Thomas.

LondonTiger wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Cole is looking better again at Tigers isn't he?

Depends who you listen to. The typical Saint's fan (WPI ) will tell you he has been rubbish.

But I am happy with him so far. 3 starts since the WC against Wasps, Exeter and Stade. Leicester were clearly superior at scrum time against the first and last, but struggled a little with Exeter. Primarily this was in the LH side where stand-in Balmain struggled with Francis, but the whole pack should shoulder responsibility.

Is he at his best?  No.

Is he close? Probably not yet.

Is he playing better than he did at the RWC? Most definitely yes.

This sunday will be informative. Ayerza, Youngs & cole vs Auterac, Webber and Thomas.

The game against Bath should be a real good one.  I thought Cole looked pretty god against Wasps.  Didn't see the match against Exe, and I don't know what we can read into the Stade match.  

We Saints fans do look north across the border with a bit of suspicion.  Kind of like South Korea looking north across the DMZ.   We know Tigers manipulate the referees, the media, the crowds, the schools, and the police.  How could we lose there otherwise?  My old man, who has 50 years in various forms of Foreign Service, has the pedigree to know something is amiss when he sees it.  He lives in Market Harborough, virtually on the border crossing, and watches, observes, and reports back.  Do you ever see Richard Cockerill and Kim Jong Il together?  Ever?  Since Tigers control the media, almost nothing ever gets reported in the mainstream media.  But WE know, I tell you.  WE know.

I thought Cole looked good against Wasps but I didn't think your scrum was superior. I think it was Balmain on the LH side? Who got pinged numerous times.

Do people actually think there will be many changes to the pack for the 6n.

I would have said there wont be and yet Rod Kafer who seems to know Eddie very well, said quite clearly that many of the side that went to the WC were not the type of players that Eddie would have taken. So given he still has 2 months give or take to assess whats available to him we may see a few changes.