Wales U20s and the bridge to Test Rugby

Wales U20s have just beaten their English counterparts 16-42 in Bristol, setting up a Grand Slam game at home against Italy next week. Fantastic performance from the forwards, who dominated from the first minute against England. Perhaps a few question marks over the scrum (Welsh tighthead binding on arm, English loosedhead dropping and driving at an angle), but generally speaking, the increase in professionalism- read performance- of age grade Welsh rugby is dramatic.

Gone are the days where the better conditioned English forwards would steam roll this level of rugby. Instead, it's the Welsh backs who look better conditioned, stronger with better stamina, but perhaps key in all this is their cohesion. Perhaps the smaller player pool helps, having continuity in team (a fair number of returning players from the previous season, as opposed to a whole new group), but equally there's a distinct link in style from the Welsh Test team through the regions and down to this level.

In particular, Wales were excellent at the ruck; narrow gates with well supported bodies, long rucks, good presentation back to the base of the ruck. It was here I felt the difference between the two teams was most apparent. They were also excellent in defence, able to turn over ball better than the English. Could this be a mirror of the two Test teams tomorrow?

As good as Wales are, do the backs suffer? The standards of forward play, conditioning, and discipline in the academies has evidently improved dramatically since Gatland came in, yet has the mythical 'Welsh flair' been lost as a result? Is this even fair, as Wales still scored some great tries with width?

What about the transition to Test level. Does it help having a cohesive and successful team at this level, or are talented individuals more important (if anyone has any statistics on this, would be interesting)? For every Jonathan Davies or Sam Warburton, there is a Macauley Cook, who doesn't make the step up.

With regards to this transition, is the Welsh A Team a necessary bridge between the two levels? Do people think it's worth bringing this level of rugby back, or are the regions doing a good enough job at this already, sacrificing genuine competitiveness at club level for the sake of the national team?

Two things here. Firstly, it's just one win. Someone pointed out elsewhere that England have won the last 9/10. So maybe it was just our time. A blip. Hell of a score though, so not a sneaky win away from home by the looks of it. But perhaps not indicative of a massive change. We'd need to see that over a few years.

Also, on the A team I'm pret sure they announced in the last year or so that it was being resurrected. Sure I read that. Not sure what happened though.

Wales were very good in the first half and switch off for the third quarter but turned back on for the last 20. Wales have some very good players coming through supported by good coaches that should replace Howley and Mc Bryde.

A great result.

England have not been a great team this year, but that can't be counted against a great six nations run this year for the young Welsh team.

Hopefully we will see a few of these lads becoming household names over the next few years.

Griff wrote:Two things here. Firstly, it's just one win. Someone pointed out elsewhere that England have won the last 9/10. So maybe it was just our time. A blip. Hell of a score though, so not a sneaky win away from home by the looks of it. But perhaps not indicative of a massive change. We'd need to see that over a few years.

Also, on the A team I'm pret sure they announced in the last year or so that it was being resurrected. Sure I read that. Not sure what happened though.

I don't think it's fair to call it one win, Wales were unlucky with results last year, losing games like the Scotland game which they really ought to have won. There's also been quite a significant bridging of the gap that was apparent between England and the other nations at u20 level in the last decade. The U20 team that beat NZ, and so nearly won the cup, in 2012 was the first real indication that they were able to compete at the top level consistently, where it was more one off results.

Yeah, the A Team is being brought back, but my questions is whether it's necessary. Do we really have the depth to justify it? Can you imagine a team comprised of the best regional players not making the Test squad, coming up against England's Saxons side? Or even the Irish and French? Is it not better to keep the U20's as a good basis for not only transitioning academy players into the competitive game, but also- and this is no small matter- using it as a way of tying players to Wales.

It's a shame this game was not shown on free to view TV as all the other games Wales played both home and away. Playing at Bristol is like a home game for Wales (South Wales).

I'm a no to the A team suggestion.  There's two many games as it is and we don't have the player base to supply players to the squad like the English do.  If during this period, we lose our Welsh internationals, our under 20 internationals and then potentially players like Dan Baker, Sam Davies, Eli Walker, Rory Thornton, Nicky Smith to an A team, who plays for the Ospreys?

Also I don't see how playing the England's Saxons is going to improve any player. Let them get the coaching and game time at their regions

glamorganalun wrote:It's a shame this game was not shown on free to view TV as all the other games Wales played both home and away. Playing at Bristol is like a home game for Wales (South Wales).

I think sky had the right to England home games which is a pity because Dewi Morris was awful commentating

True Raven wrote:I'm a no to the A team suggestion.  There's two many games as it is and we don't have the player base to supply players to the squad like the English do.  If during this period, we lose our Welsh internationals, our under 20 internationals and then potentially players like Dan Baker, Sam Davies, Eli Walker, Rory Thornton, Nicky Smith to an A team, who plays for the Ospreys?

Also I don't see how playing the England's Saxons is going to improve any player.  Let them get the coaching and game time at their regions

I agree.

Maybe emerging Welsh players could tour in the summer to America or Argentina, maybe even Eastern Europe?

But the concept of the A Team in rugby died a decade ago when club games were scheduled during internationals.

We can't possibly have an A team because there is no way our 4 regions can lose an entire squad full of players between them. They are already borrowing Premiership level players to make up the short fall now.

We can't really read too much into U20 level results, look at the Welsh team who lost 92-0 to New Zealand a few years ago, nearly all of them went onto professional rugby. A grand slam is nice for the players though. I wouldn't read too much into the results, it's how they develop from this point is whats important.

True Raven wrote:I'm a no to the A team suggestion.  There's two many games as it is and we don't have the player base to supply players to the squad like the English do.  If during this period, we lose our Welsh internationals, our under 20 internationals and then potentially players like Dan Baker, Sam Davies, Eli Walker, Rory Thornton, Nicky Smith to an A team, who plays for the Ospreys?

Also I don't see how playing the England's Saxons is going to improve any player.  Let them get the coaching and game time at their regions

Maybe Wales could run an A Tour to North America and Canada during the Lions tour next year, that would not inconvenience the regions and give some of the fringe players some game time.

I hope that the stars of this under 20s side who are not eligible to play for the under 20s next season get some Regional game time. Players like, the front rows, Beard in the second and the back row all look class players. As do the 9 and both 10s also the Ospreys centre and wing.

I wouldn't mind that but only if Gatland took charge because the last tour under mcbryde to Japan was a waste of time. Dafydd Howells got two caps yet is the Ospreys 5th choice winger.

True Raven wrote:I wouldn't mind that but only if Gatland took charge because the last tour under mcbryde to Japan was a waste of time.  Dafydd Howells got two caps yet is the Ospreys 5th choice winger.

The problem Wales had in Japan was that they took mostly 3rd choice players to play Japan's first team and as any South African will tell you, their first team ain't bad!

Howells should have moved to the Scarlets when he had the chance, he looked a really useful 13 in the making but does not get much of a look in at the Ospreys.

He's never played 13?!? He's a winger and only 21 and currently out injured. I don't recall him ever being linked to the scarlets

Seagultaf wrote:

True Raven wrote:I wouldn't mind that but only if Gatland took charge because the last tour under mcbryde to Japan was a waste of time.  Dafydd Howells got two caps yet is the Ospreys 5th choice winger.

The problem Wales had in Japan was that they took mostly 3rd choice players to play Japan's first team and as any South African will tell you, their first team ain't bad!

Howells should have moved to the Scarlets when he had the chance, he looked a really useful 13 in the making but does not get much of a look in at the Ospreys.

The problem with that was dopey robin or whoever decided they didn't need experience like Ryan Jones etc.

True Raven wrote:He's never played 13?!?  He's a winger and only 21 and currently out injured.  I don't recall him ever being linked to the scarlets

I agree I have never heard of any Scarlets interest in him, though he plays wing, center and full back, he's a utility player. With Wales u20 he was often full back, in the Premiership with Neath hes often center, and in pro rugby level he's moved to wing.