South Africa's Greatest Ever Six Nations Team

15. Scott Spedding
14. Hal Luscome
13. Brian Liebenberg
12. Brad Barrett
11. Nick Abendanon
10. Mike Catt
9. Rory Kockett
8. CJ Stander
7. Bernard Le Roux
6. Antoine Classen
5. Mouritz Botha
4. Quintin Geldenhuys
3. W.P. Nel
2. Richardt Strauss
1. Matt Stevens

1. Brett Wilkinson
7. Dion O'Cuinneagain
7. Hendrie Fourie
8. Dries van Schalkwyk
12. Staurt Abbott
6. Josh Strauss
4. Carlo Del Fava
9. Tobie Botes
1. Pieter DeVilliers


Coach: Nick Mallet

Did I miss anyone? Is this the best South African 6 nations team of all time?

Antonie Claassen was an awesome player for a time.

Rory Kockott probably better than Tobie Botes.

Fourie? Wasn't he a flanker?

Ha you are right he was. Not sure who I'm confusing him for. Have added the other too also. Thanks.

They could do with spedding now.

Its a good team isn't it? Id say they could come 2nd in the 6 nations.

Imagine what those players be like if their heart was truly into it? Guys like WP Nel seem a bit subdued. I reckon he would perform far more with a bok jersey on his chest.

fa0019 wrote:Imagine what those players be like if their heart was truly into it? Guys like WP Nel seem a bit subdued. I reckon he would perform far more with a bok jersey on his chest.

You couldn't accuse Mike Catt, CJ Stander, Dion O'Cuinnigean and some others of not having their heart in it. CJ even got lessons so he could sing the anthem every time. Half the Ireland team don't even sing the anthem.

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Imagine what those players be like if their heart was truly into it? Guys like WP Nel seem a bit subdued. I reckon he would perform far more with a bok jersey on his chest.

You couldn't accuse Mike Catt, CJ Stander, Dion O'Cuinnigean and some others of not having their heart in it. CJ even got lessons so he could sing the anthem every time. Half the Ireland team don't even sing the anthem.

Singing anthem is a little different. Pay me enough and I'll belt out the fields of Athenrye no worry!

O'Cuinnigean da was Irish, Catt's mum was English. They had ties.

Stander and Nel are about as Irish and Scottish respectively as Colonel Sanders. They're pros and good ones but I still think there is no way they could perform for their country like they could of their "adopted" home.

and when I say adopted I mean "for the stay" too. (a bit like prison right ). They'll all go home when their career ends.

Are there enough players to put together equivalent NZ and Australia teams? Could certainly do a non-England English team.
What about a non tier 1 nations team? Got the likes of Corbisiero at prop, Simon Shaw in the 2nd row, Heaslip at 8, ROG at 10, Yarde on the wing. Any more contributions?

I think birth place shouldn't be counted to this.

Shaw was from an English family, brought up English.
Heaslip da was a soldier and his family took him abroad etc.

Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse necessarily. If you're born, raised and ancestrally outside your representative nation then sure. If it was a case of your parents working abroad for a few years its not quite the same thing.

the Pieter de Villiers I know was a TH and great one for France. At the same time we also had Brian Liebenberg at centre.

ended up coaching the boks too (PdV)... scrum coach not the the media darling coach from 2008-2011.

whocares wrote:the Pieter de Villiers I know was a TH and great one for France. At the same time we also had Brian Liebenberg at centre.

Ah yes. Brain not working today. Was thinking of Tony Marsh who isn't even South African.

dummy_half wrote:Are there enough players to put together equivalent NZ and Australia teams? Could certainly do a non-England English team.
What about a non tier 1 nations team? Got the likes of Corbisiero at prop, Simon Shaw in the 2nd row, Heaslip at 8, ROG at 10, Yarde on the wing. Any more contributions?

David Denton Zimbabwe
Jordi Murphy Spain
Abdel Benazzi Morocco

Oh here we go..... "Our Foreign Legion are less foreign than your ones"

To be fair guns when I looked at some of those names the brain took a while to engage too.

zimbabwe could have had an awesome team though.

Mujati, Mtawarira, Chavanga, Skinstad, Thom Evans, Max Evans, Garvey, Teichmann.

Thankfully Wales are not half as bad for this sort of thing since the farce Graham Henry capped. From memory, Hal Luscome, Andy Marinos, Bret Sinkinson and Peter Rogers are the only South Africans we have capped, so that is about 4 in about twenty years, and to be fair, I think two of those had Welsh parents.

How does Max Evans qualify for Zimbabwe? I know Thom was born there but Max was born in England.

Is this the first time in a while that England have had no South African links (closest being Zimbabwean Ewers)?

HammerofThunor wrote:How does Max Evans qualify for Zimbabwe? I know Thom was born there but Max was born in England.

Is this the first time in a while that England have had no South African links (closest being Zimbabwean Ewers)?

Family from there no and he lived there as a child at the least?

Must have because Thom was born there but that doesn't make him qualified for them. I was under the impression one parent was Scottish and the other English. Not sure about grandparents.

quick question for FA : are the baby bocks (U20) the south African designated 2nd team ? if not steven kitshoff will probably be in this list in 3 years time

LordDowlais wrote:Thankfully Wales are not half as bad for this sort of thing since the farce Graham Henry capped. From memory, Hal Luscome, Andy Marinos, Bret Sinkinson and Peter Rogers are the only South Africans we have capped, so that is about 4 in about twenty years, and to be fair, I think two of those had Welsh parents.

Is England not another Nation then?

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Thankfully Wales are not half as bad for this sort of thing since the farce Graham Henry capped. From memory, Hal Luscome, Andy Marinos, Bret Sinkinson and Peter Rogers are the only South Africans we have capped, so that is about 4 in about twenty years, and to be fair, I think two of those had Welsh parents.

Is England not another Nation then?

You just had to open the box didn't you!

fa0019 wrote:zimbabwe could have had an awesome team though.

Mujati, Mtawarira, Chavanga, Skinstad, Thom Evans, Max Evans, Garvey, Teichmann.

Pocock and Denton

It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

whocares wrote:quick question for FA : are the baby bocks (U20) the south African designated 2nd team ? if not steven kitshoff will probably be in this list in 3 years time

David Bulbring has also said he wants to play for Wales. He has played for SA under 20s.

LordDowlais wrote:Thankfully Wales are not half as bad for this sort of thing since the farce Graham Henry capped. From memory, Hal Luscome, Andy Marinos, Bret Sinkinson and Peter Rogers are the only South Africans we have capped, so that is about 4 in about twenty years, and to be fair, I think two of those had Welsh parents.

Scarlets SA lock David Bulbring says he wants to play for Wales.

GunsGerms wrote:David Bulbring has also said he wants to play for Wales.

He has only said that, so that he can get a longer contract with Scarlets.

thanks GG, that's clear.

Guns

Great shout on Benazzi. Hadn't considered the French Africans, which also could bring in Betsen (Cameroon). Pretty sure there've been a couple of others.

Had no idea about Jordi Murphy, and we can add Charlie Sharples (born Hong Kong) to the side.
So, so far the non-main nations we have:
1 - Corbs
2 -
3 -
4 - Simon Shaw
5 - Abdel Bennazzi
6 - Dave Denton
7 - Serge Betsen
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Jordi Murphy as reserve)

9 - (I thought Joe Simpson from Wasps, but he was NZ born)
10 - Ronan O'Gara
11 - Marland Yarde
12 -
13 -
14 - Charlie Sharples / Thom Evans
15 - Best I can come up with is Serge Blanco (born in Venezuela), but he retired well before the 6Ns began

whocares wrote:quick question for FA : are the baby bocks (U20) the south African designated 2nd team ? if not steven kitshoff will probably be in this list in 3 years time

No they are not.

Kitsoff is a big loss. Everyone has said it. Meyer vision was limited to the highveld only. "Plays for the bulls you say.... get him in the side".

LordDowlais wrote:It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

We're actually moving on to Kiwi's at this stage,oddly enough all the Aussies we cap seem to have family ties.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

We're actually moving on to Kiwi's at this stage,oddly enough all the Aussies we cap seem to have family ties.

Owning a Irish wolfhound does not count as family ties!

I wonder if we could do a full England foreign team. (Don't get all serious, its just a bit of fun. Some have been a long time I know. )

1 Mako
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Botha
5
6 Billy V (Nathan Hughes - Is a certainty aswell!)
7 Fourie / Lipman
8 Waldrom / Ewers

9
10 Henry Paul
11 Vainikolo
12 Hape/Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Rokodugunni
15 Mike Catt

Struggling with a couple of positions, and haven't included the Nigerian contingent - Harriman, Ubogu , Ojomoh, Adedayo etc....

But not a bad side.

fa0019 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

We're actually moving on to Kiwi's at this stage,oddly enough all the Aussies we cap seem to have family ties.

Owning a Irish wolfhound does not count as family ties!

Actually if one of your grandparents owned one that will do us.

dewi morris for 9

Heres a list of Welsh world cup squad players born outside of Wales.

Players: Tomas Francis and Aaron Jarvis born in England and qualify through Welsh grandparents; Luke Charteris, Matthew Morgan, Hallam Amos, Dan Lydiate, Alex Cuthbert, Jake Ball and George North born England qualify through Welsh parents or/and residency; James King born Australia qualifies residency; Taulupe Faletau born Tonga qualifies residency.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

We're actually moving on to Kiwi's at this stage,oddly enough all the Aussies we cap seem to have family ties.

Owning a Irish wolfhound does not count as family ties!

Actually if one of your grandparents owned one that will do us.

or the Jack Charlton special right.... "like Guinness"?

HammerofThunor wrote:How does Max Evans qualify for Zimbabwe? I know Thom was born there but Max was born in England.

Is this the first time in a while that England have had no South African links (closest being Zimbabwean Ewers)?

No South Africans but you do have 2 Kiwis, 2 Germans, 2 Aussies, 1 Zimbabwean, 1 Samoan, one Fijian and one St Lucian born player in your squad.

wrfc1980 wrote:Heres a list of Welsh world cup squad players born outside of Wales.

Players: Tomas Francis and Aaron Jarvis born in England and qualify through Welsh grandparents; Luke Charteris, Matthew Morgan, Hallam Amos, Dan Lydiate, Alex Cuthbert, Jake Ball and George North born England qualify through Welsh parents or/and residency; James King born Australia qualifies residency; Taulupe Faletau born Tonga qualifies residency.

think Davies was born in England too.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I wonder if we could do a full England foreign team. (Don't get all serious, its just a bit of fun. Some have been a long time I know. )

1 Mako
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Botha
5
6 Billy V (Nathan Hughes - Is a certainty aswell!)
7 Fourie / Lipman
8 Waldrom / Ewers

9
10 Henry Paul
11 Vainikolo
12 Hape/Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Rokodugunni
15 Mike Catt

Struggling with a couple of positions, and haven't included the Nigerian contingent - Harriman, Ubogu , Ojomoh, Adedayo etc....

But not a bad side.

Kieran Bracken at 9. Shaw at 5.

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I wonder if we could do a full England foreign team. (Don't get all serious, its just a bit of fun. Some have been a long time I know. )

1 Mako
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Botha
5
6 Billy V (Nathan Hughes - Is a certainty aswell!)
7 Fourie / Lipman
8 Waldrom / Ewers

9
10 Henry Paul
11 Vainikolo
12 Hape/Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Rokodugunni
15 Mike Catt

Struggling with a couple of positions, and haven't included the Nigerian contingent - Harriman, Ubogu , Ojomoh, Adedayo etc....

But not a bad side.

Kieran Bracken at 9. Shaw at 5.

wasn't it that Ireland looked at Bracken and said he was gash?

fa0019 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It's ok, as long as Ireland can keep beefing out their teams with South Africans then I can keep the moral high ground.

We're actually moving on to Kiwi's at this stage,oddly enough all the Aussies we cap seem to have family ties.

Owning a Irish wolfhound does not count as family ties!

Actually if one of your grandparents owned one that will do us.

or the Jack Charlton special right.... "like Guinness"?

Tony Cascarino http://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/oct/29/newsstory.sport12

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I wonder if we could do a full England foreign team. (Don't get all serious, its just a bit of fun. Some have been a long time I know. )

1 Mako
2 Hartley
3 Stevens
4 Botha
5
6 Billy V (Nathan Hughes - Is a certainty aswell!)
7 Fourie / Lipman
8 Waldrom / Ewers

9
10 Henry Paul
11 Vainikolo
12 Hape/Barritt
13 Tuilagi
14 Rokodugunni
15 Mike Catt

Struggling with a couple of positions, and haven't included the Nigerian contingent - Harriman, Ubogu , Ojomoh, Adedayo etc....

But not a bad side.

Kieran Bracken at 9. Shaw at 5.

Yeah, but I was trying to think of more clear cut foreign born...not just actually born with very limited time in that country

I forgot Flutey aswell.

From memory, here is a list of players capped by Wales, who had no link to the country other than three years living here:-

Shane Howarth (he was actually capped by New Zealand and lied about his lineage)
Bret Sinkinson (lied about his grand farther being born in Camarthen)
Hal Luscombe (residency)
Brent Cockbain (residency)
Hemi Taylor (residency)
Matt Cardy (residency)
Andy Marinos (residency)

I am trying to think of more but for the life of me cannot. Also, Andy Marinos can be added to the Zimbabwe side he was born in Harare.

was it lies LD or was it genuine mistakes?

fa0019 wrote:

wasn't it that Ireland looked at Bracken and said he was gash?

That's a horrible word. Haha. Don't think Bracken ever considered playing for Ireland. Think he was rejected by London Irish though.

wrfc1980 wrote:Heres a list of Welsh world cup squad players born outside of Wales.

Players: Tomas Francis and Aaron Jarvis born in England and qualify through Welsh grandparents; Luke Charteris, Matthew Morgan, Hallam Amos, Dan Lydiate, Alex Cuthbert, Jake Ball and George North born England qualify through Welsh parents or/and residency; James King born Australia qualifies residency; Taulupe Faletau born Tonga qualifies residency.

I think you will find the only one in that list that has NO ties to Wales whatsoever is Tomas Francis other than a Welsh grandparent. The rest of those either grew up in Wales from a very young age, or have played ALL their rugby through the Welsh age grade systems.

Chris Horstman, prop for Wales only link was living in Wales. Think he may be coaching their under 20's team now?