Olympics

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Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 31 Jul 2016, 7:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

6-14 August
Perhaps in need of own thread.
Discuss build up and matches here.

Top of the billing with be Djokovic and Murray, and then Rafa who is currently scheduled to play, and planning to travel to Rio, but still not completely clear that he will play singles.

TRuffin copied this list from aother site and put it on the Toronto thread, I've added Federer, the rest is per July 23 post of Truffin. Edited August 2nd to add Wawrinka.

Out from top 10
#3 - Federer
#4 - Wawrinka
#7 - Raonic
#8 - Berdych
#9 - Thiem

Out from 11 - 20
#14 - Gasquet (also out of RC with injury)
#16 - Isner
#18 - Kyrgios
#19 - Tomic

Out from 21 - 30
#21 - F Lopez
#22 - Pouille
#29 - Querrey

Out from 31 - 40
#33 - Anderson
#35 - Karlovic
#37 - Dolgopolov
#38 - Chardy

I haven't heard about withdrawals on the women's side of the singles, but a lot of big names seem to be in.


Last edited by Henman Bill on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 11:22 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 2:32 pm

Good comments. Good shout on Peaty.

But you cannot win SPOTY with a single gold medal while others have two or three, it is just not going to happen.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 2:38 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Murray the first man to ever defend Olympics gold and in fact the only man to win two Olympics singles gold in all history.

Something that should have been pointed out to John Inverdale who apparently told Murray he was the first person to win two. Oops. John Inverdale making a bit of a gaff, surely not.


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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 2:52 pm

Found this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_gold_medalists

To my mind, this statistic is Bradmanesque. It's not just the fact that Phelps has 23 golds, and the next has 9, that's so impressive, it's that so many have 9, 8 and 7. 18 to be precise with 7 or more. Take Phelps out of the table and you could start to wonder if one day someone could make a superhuman effort and get to 10, such are the fine margins between getting to 7, 8, 9 or 10.

Phelps has more golds than anyone else has medals.

I get that argument that it's easier to win more medals in swimming. No doubt that's true, there are 4 ways to swim a 100 metres and only 2 ways to run it (with or without hurdles). However for me the amount of medals that Phelps now has is just far enough ahead of anyone else to really matter.

If Bolt were also winning the 400 metres and the 100 metre hurdles and the long jump, he might be better than Phelps, even if he "only" had 15 golds.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 2:53 pm

Henman Bill wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Murray the first man to ever defend Olympics gold and in fact the only man to win two Olympics singles gold in all history.

Something that should have been pointed out to John Inverdale who apparently told Murray he was the first person to win two. Oops. John Inverdale making a bit of a gaff, surely not.


No woman has ever done so either. What's the gaff?

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 3:41 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Good comments. Good shout on Peaty.

But you cannot win SPOTY with a single gold medal while others have two or three, it is just not going to happen.
Nonsense. Firstly he won the 100 m breaststroke Olympics title. And Secondly he broke the world record twice in getting it. Additionally he is about 1 second faster than any person in history over that distance for breast stroke. He is also the 50 m and 100 m breast stroke world champion, holds the world record also for the 50 m breast stroke. He also more or less single handedly got the 4 x 100 mens medley team a silver medal. He is certainly the most impressive able bodied swimmer Britain has ever produced in my view (which includes Rebecca Adlington imo), and he has hopefully many more years left in the sport.

Max Whitlock looks to be the best ever gymnast Britain has ever produced.

Then we have the divers to come - let's see how Jack Laugher does in the 3 m singles springboard.

Then we have the track cycling girls and boys.

Then there's Chris Froome 3 x tour de france.

Then there is Mo Farah - probably the greatest athletic competitor Britain has ever produced.

Then there is of course Andy Murray.

Personally if Mo Farah wins the 5000 m - it would be "about time" he won it. He is certainly a personality with his mobot trademark etc.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest82 on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 3:58 pm

I reckon the air of suspicion that hangs over Mo Farah may stop him from winning it. I'm not saying he's a cheat, but it was bad publicity.

Murray is probably in with a good shout, just wonder if him already winning it twice will stop people voting for him. Although he's getting more and more popular with the 'casuals', he seems to finally be forgiven for the "anyone but England" joke.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 5:22 pm

Guest82 wrote:... Murray is probably in with a good shout, just wonder if him already winning it twice will stop people voting for him. ...
That is probably the only reason why Murray won't be considered by some.  He has already won Wimbledon, he has already won an Olympic gold medal.  If he wins the US Open this year then that would make him an even stronger candidate - but he has already won a US Open.  Davis Cup?  

The advantage Murray has is that he is in the spotlight outside of the Olympics as well: he has an Olympics presence and he has a presence outside of the Olympics - at Wimbledon and at the other Grand Slam tournaments and in the Davis Cup.

Ultimately it might depend how each candidate is "sold" on the night of Sports Personality of the Year.  People will consider that maybe it is time to give it to someone else - so the fact that he has won it twice before is probably going to be the main reason why he might not win it again.  In terms of "personality" he is probably the biggest there is in British sport at the moment.

The only reason why Chris Froome hasn't won sports personality of the year is because Bradley Wiggins beat him to it.  Basically the Tour de France can be sold as the greatest sporting challenge on the planet - but an award has already been given for "winning the Tour de France".  Yes, he is also not much of a personality but that is also because the media are not that much interested in him.

Of the likely candidates it is going to be Mo Farah that people are going to look at in terms of sporting resume and think why the 'eck hasn't he already won it. I still think he needs to win the 5000 m. I also think that there may be others issues with regard to Mo Farah why some might not vote for him. I was always a little puzzled why Jessica Ennis always seemed to be more popular than Mo Farah when it came to sporting personality of the year in recent years.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 10:55 pm

Born Slippy wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Murray the first man to ever defend Olympics gold and in fact the only man to win two Olympics singles gold in all history.

Something that should have been pointed out to John Inverdale who apparently told Murray he was the first person to win two. Oops. John Inverdale making a bit of a gaff, surely not.


No woman has ever done so either. What's the gaff?

What Inverdale said was “You’re the first person ever to win two Olympic tennis gold medals." That is inaccurate. The point is that he said person, not man.

I made a mistake here since my quote references only singles, but that is not what Inverdale said.

He presumably is a bit sexist and forgot about the woman.

Either that, or he's in the "meh, doubles don't count" crowd.

Anyway, it was a mistake.

Serena and Venus both have 1 singles, 3 doubles, 4 total.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:01 pm

On SPOTY, it is not "nonsense" but maths to point out that 2 goal medals or 3 is better than 1. You may not agree but you don't need to say "nonsense".

Laura Trott with second gold medal of this Olympics, and fourth of career, which is apparently the most ever won by a woman.

I still think there will be a bit of cycling fatigue though, if this had happened in say 1996, it would have been amazing, huge star, but now it's like, OK 2 more gold medals to add to the other 20 we won in the last few Olympics.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:15 pm

Henman Bill wrote:
Born Slippy wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:Murray the first man to ever defend Olympics gold and in fact the only man to win two Olympics singles gold in all history.

Something that should have been pointed out to John Inverdale who apparently told Murray he was the first person to win two. Oops. John Inverdale making a bit of a gaff, surely not.


No woman has ever done so either. What's the gaff?

What Inverdale said was “You’re the first person ever to win two Olympic tennis gold medals." That is inaccurate. The point is that he said person, not man.

I made a mistake here since my quote references only singles, but that is not what Inverdale said.

He presumably is a bit sexist and forgot about the woman.

Either that, or he's in the "meh, doubles don't count" crowd.

Anyway, it was a mistake.

Serena and Venus both have 1 singles, 3 doubles, 4 total.
He must have meant singles though. Rafa has 2 golds in men's (one singles one doubles) so even first man would be wrong otherwise.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:17 pm

I have already answered your comment HB.

Anyway Jason Kenny the most understated British athlete. Quietly he has won 6 Olympic gold medals and a silver, with three golds this Olympics. Phenomenal. He still only 28 so has a shout at another Olympics. Chris Hoy kept going until he was 36 so that would make two more Olympics if Kenny decided to stretch it out.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Born Slippy on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 11:19 pm

Henman Bill wrote:On SPOTY, it is not "nonsense" but maths to point out that 2 goal medals or 3 is better than 1. You may not agree but you don't need to say "nonsense".

Laura Trott with second gold medal of this Olympics, and fourth of career, which is apparently the most ever won by a woman.

I still think there will be a bit of cycling fatigue though, if this had happened in say 1996, it would have been amazing, huge star, but now it's like, OK 2 more gold medals to add to the other 20 we won in the last few Olympics.
20 out of 30 possible golds in the last three Olympics in cycling. It's serious domination. 

Agree about cycling fatigue in terms of SPOTY though. Peaty would be a great choice but I doubt it will be him. I suspect it will be Murray to be honest.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 12:48 am

Yes, great stuff from Kenny. 3 golds in one games, that has to make him a serious contender, I believe I'm right in saying that he is so far the only Brit to win 3 golds at this games, and probably the only one who will. That has to count in his favour. Still not sure if the 3rd gold is enough to overcome the cycling fatigue factor.

I think that kills off his partner Laura Trott's chances. I don't see how you can give it to someone who's won 2 in cycling, when someone has 3, unless there was something particularly amazing about LT other than 2 medals, but I don't think there is.

Still leaning to Murray as the faovurite though.

Maybe I was a bit harsh on Inverdale to imply being unfair to women or even sexist. He does has form though with some comments about Bartoli at Wimbledon.

For me, however small an error this is for Inverdale, it's the final straw. You get the strong impression that he never watches the tour year around, so why have him as presenter anyway. I wouldn't sack him but I would quietly demote him to a minor sport or not renew his contract at some future point. There's 4 or 5 things I could say that he's done wrong now.

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Re: Olympics

Post by summerblues on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:01 am

Murray has a rather realistic looking chance to finish the year at No 1 - especially if Novak struggles with his form. Would that not be enough to tip it over for him for SPOTY?

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Re: Olympics

Post by summerblues on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 3:12 am

My take on Delpo being "limited":

In fairness, his success is based almost fully on his forehand.  Even his serve is not all that spectacular.  The power of that forehand is other-worldly, and I have never seen any other player who was able to hit forehands anywhere as big with nearly the same level of consistency.  But in the end, that is pretty much all that makes Delpo's game so special.

So the term "limited" does not strike me as all that inappropriate.  Still, I personally would perhaps use the term "1-dimensional" more than "limited".  Even though they are kind of used as synonyms, the word "limited" strikes me as, while technically perhaps correct, maybe a little too rough sounding for a player of Delpo's caliber.  Who is more "limited"?  Delpo who can win a slam on the strength of one shot only, or a player who has some variety but nothing to get him to a slam SF?

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest82 on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:18 am

summerblues wrote:Murray has a rather realistic looking chance to finish the year at No 1 - especially if Novak struggles with his form.  Would that not be enough to tip it over for him for SPOTY?

Think there is a very good chance of Murray becoming number one at some point before Wimbledon next year anyway. At the moment he is out performing Djokovic and up until Wimbledon Djokovic has it all to defend.

Dare we say it - Murray is dominating mens tennis at the moment.

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Re: Olympics

Post by banbrotam on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 9:31 am

Guest82 wrote:
summerblues wrote:Murray has a rather realistic looking chance to finish the year at No 1 - especially if Novak struggles with his form.  Would that not be enough to tip it over for him for SPOTY?

Think there is a very good chance of Murray becoming number one at some point before Wimbledon next year anyway.  At the moment he is out performing Djokovic and up until Wimbledon Djokovic has it all to defend.

Dare we say it - Murray is dominating mens tennis at the moment.


Erm! I'm reserving judgement until they meet!! It's feasible, as it's happened with past greats, that Novak is simply not as motivated at the daily events, since winning RG  - hence why The Olympic loss was such a devastating blow. I do think this is a great opportunity for Andy - let's see what the next few months bring

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Re: Olympics

Post by Born Slippy on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 1:16 pm

I think the way Andy was playing he would have had a great chance to beat Novak at Wimbledon. I didn't think he was as good in the Olympics but the courts weren't as well suited for him. If he beats Novak at the US Open then Wn1 will start to look realistic but presently it's a long way off.

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Re: Olympics

Post by sportslover on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 2:59 pm

Although a big fan of Andy I would like to see someone new get the SPOTY award.
For my money if Alastair Brownlee was to win Gold again in the Triathlon he would be my choice - Anyway having already won it twice, I doubt if Andy wouldn't be too disappointed for somebody else to get it.

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Re: Olympics

Post by Guest on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 4:51 pm

The BBC are becoming more and more tabloid like.  In this latest article from the BBC we have ... Ha ha 606v2 won't allow this word on to its site - changing it to winkle - but here we have the esteemed taxpayer funded BBC making it the centre piece of their article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37103648

BBC headline: Olympic pole vault Winkle claim denied by Japan athlete Hiroki Ogita wrote:Japanese pole vaulter Hiroki Ogita has described his bewilderment after reports his Winkle had prevented him from progressing in the Rio Olympics went viral.

A video of the athlete hitting the bar with what looked to some like his Winkle under his shorts quickly spread online.

His leg had already made contact with the bar but his arm finished the job.

"I never expected the foreign media to take me down like this," the 28-year-old athlete tweeted.

"It's one thing if it was true, but I have to say I'm pretty devastated that they'd go so far to make something up to mock and ridicule me so much."
...

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:41 pm

I'm not convinced Murray will get 1 this year (more likely in clay season or after Australian Open), but there are three other things that could tip things further in his favour

winning US Open
winning Davis Cup
Winning world tour finals

It's reasonable to think he could do 1 of the 4, and these are things on British TV that happen at the end of the year just before the awards are decided


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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 11:54 pm

Previous Olympic years SPOTY

2012 - Wiggins (had TdF as well as OG)
2008 - Hoy first British Olympian for 100 years to claim three golds at one games
2004 - Kelly Holmes double gold in Olympics
2000 - Redgrave - only one gold, but it was for the fifth time
1996 - Damon Hill
1992 - Nigel Mansell
1988 - Steve Davis

It's been Olympian winners for the last 4 Olympic years, but before that it often wasn't. It's hard to imagine a Formula 1 title winning in an Olympic year nowadays, I guess F1 was bigger in those days and of course we weren't as good at the Olympics.

Winning the 100m final was not enough for Linford Christie in 1992.

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Re: Olympics

Post by killer938 on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:59 pm

So now that it has all finished, I think I'm going for this as my preference for winners. Just my choice and I have no problem or arguments with anyone who has other choices as they are all fantastic candidates and it's so difficult to choose really. But my top 3 (for the moment would be)

Alistair Brownlee
Adam Peaty
Max Whitlock

I think what Alistair Brownlee has achieved is incredible. The triathlon doesn't get the coverage that the athletics gets but what those guys do is unbelievable and to dominate the way he has is amazing.
Peaty I have already expressed my admiration for, double world champion, olympic champion (would be double if the 50m was also in the Olympics) and not only world record holder but the 7 fastest times ever, 1.5 secs quicker than anyone else ever over 100m, dominance that we have never seen before.
Whitlock, again, just an incredible achievement.

Still think Mo will win it and no problem with that, he deserves it as well, would be 4th on my list, I would just like to see a new name in a different sport win it

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Re: Olympics

Post by Henman Bill on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 10:19 pm

The problem is the Olympic vote is so divided, which is why I think Murray is likely to win. There are lots of people who don't like tennis, don't like Murray, who think it should be someone else's turn, but their vote will be very divided.

If the public were given a shortlist of two, there are several Olympians that might have a good chance of beating Murray in a head to head,

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Re: Olympics

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 10:38 pm

I would say Mo Farah is now a hot favourite. He has done what no long distance athlete has done before and that even includes the many legendary Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes. Peaty is disadvantaged as swimming is not as popular as athletics, the body of press coverage and adulation he got even in this country pales into insignificance compared to Mo Farah's coverage and people are more meh about world records and go more for outright achievements. Sure Peaty has those but how well reported were they?
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Re: Olympics

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