PRO12 - ULSTER v SCARLETS

First topic message reminder :

At Ravespan Stadium, 7:05pm. Live on BBC Sport NI/BBC Wales

Referee: Ben Whitehouse (WRU, 27th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Cammy Rudkin (SRU), Shane Kierans (IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eddie Walsh (IRFU)
TMO: Charles Samson (SRU)


The last time the Ulstermen started a PRO12 campaign with three straight victories was in season 2012/13, where they did not lose their first match until round 12.

Ulster have lost just once at Kingspan Stadium since early January: 20-21 to Scarlets on 21 February.

Scarlets have won only one of their last six Guinness PRO12 fixtures: over Newport Gwent Dragons on “Judgement Day” in April.

Scarlets only victory in their last twelve visits to an Irish province in any tournament was in Belfast in February.

Scarlets won both matches against Ulster in the Guinness PRO12 last season but have never won three in a row against the Irish province.

Overall Guinness PRO12 head to head record:
Played 27, Ulster won 14, Scarlets won 11 and 2 games drawn.

ULSTER MATCH DAY SQUAD
15 C Piutau
14 C Gilroy
13 S Olding
12 S McCloskey
11 L Ludik
10 P Jackson
9 R Pienaar

1 C Black
2 R Herring (captain)
3 R Ah You
4 P Browne
5 A O'Connor
6 C Ross
7 S Reidy
8 R Diack

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, R Kane, F van der Merwe, I Henderson, A Lloyd, L Marshall, R Lyttle.

SCARLETS MATCH DAY SQUAD
15 A Thomas
14 L Williams
13 Jonathan Davies
12 H Parkes
11 S Evans
10 R Patchell
9 G Davies

1 W Jones
2 K Owens (capt)
3 W Kruger
4 J Ball
5 D Bulbring
6 L Rawlins
7 James Davies
8 J Barclay

Replacements: R Elias, L Garrett, P Edwards, T Beirne, W Boyde, Aled Davies, S Williams, S Hughes.

clivemcl wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Any way I can watch this in the south? I'm only in Meath for heavens sake!

I'd also be grateful for a stream if anyone has one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo?area=northern_ireland

No good for me, but if you are in UK...

Am a wee bit further out now Clive.

Breakdown is a bit of a mess in this game. Most worrying is the fact that we have created so many opportunities and yet it's only 11-0.

Yeah I agree Rory we need to take most advantage of this start of the 2nd half when we are a man up

Entertaining match

Ulster look a superb team this season. 1-15 and not a bad bench either

Charles Piutau take a bow, what an intercept

Gilroy auditioning for soccer!

Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Piatau is a brilliant player, always looking for the offload but even when he doesn't break a tackle or anything he always does just enough to give you go forward ball, great to have Jacko back too he has matured so well in the way he runs the game

Well this is going to be an interesting last 5

Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?
How one-eyed are the Ulster supporters at Kingspan? It must be embarrassing to continuously boo the correct decisions because they're going against your team. Great crowd number though, that's what you want every week in the Pro12.

Well thats a good win I'd say. Scarlets certainly put the pressure on near the end. We have to be more clinical taking our chances in the future but I'd say overall a good performance

I thought when Scarlets got their try and with Ulster having a few backline injuries that this might go Scarlets way but Ulster show their class again

19-8 well played

Sad to see Luke Marshall go off like that. He looks grand now though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?
How one-eyed are the Ulster supporters at Kingspan? It must be embarrassing to continuously boo the correct decisions because they're going against your team. Great crowd number though, that's what you want every week in the Pro12.

Yeah because that doesn't happen everywhere else in the pro 12. Also got to remember it may look different live at the game

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

It was smart, I'll give him that. He knew what he was doing.

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

Thats true but he has no requirement to keep running in the same direction so long as he doesn't step back into Gilroys path which he never did. Whitehouse got it spot on, Williams was very clever to position himself as he did

neilthom7 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?
How one-eyed are the Ulster supporters at Kingspan? It must be embarrassing to continuously boo the correct decisions because they're going against your team. Great crowd number though, that's what you want every week in the Pro12.

Yeah because that doesn't happen everywhere else in the pro 12.  Also got to remember it may look different live at the game

It happens everywhere in and out of the Pro12. I catch more games at Kingspan than other away venues and it seems that this Ulster crowd is particularly bad - now considering all the stick Welsh crowds get for a number of reasons I'm surprised people would be shocked to see the behaviour of our Kingspan faithful brought up. Maybe it's a good thing if it can sway the ref which I do believe happened early on in this game, but we can't complain about that because Ulster were the much better team and overall Whitehouse put in another very good shift.

I don't think Whitehouse got swayed in particular if anything he was relatively lenient on the guy he ended up carding

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

It was professional play from Williams and there's isnt a law which supports the Ulster-assertion that he committed foul play. Then again Liam Williams is Welsh so the accusation will fly around.

Sigh.

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

It was professional play from Williams and there's isnt a law which supports the Ulster-assertion that he committed foul play. Then again Liam Williams is Welsh so the accusation will fly around.

Oh wind your neck in would you, you really do seem to be the most miserable of people always bitching and moaning

neilthom7 wrote:I don't think Whitehouse got swayed in particular if anything he was relatively lenient on the guy he ended up carding

Early on I thought he might have at the scrums as I couldn't see that Kruger did anything wrong, and that happened a few times during the scrum in the first half.

marty2086 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

It was professional play from Williams and there's isnt a law which supports the Ulster-assertion that he committed foul play. Then again Liam Williams is Welsh so the accusation will fly around.

Oh wind your neck in would you, you really do seem to be the most miserable of people always bitching and moaning

Says the cyclops always bitching and moaning about Liam Williams.

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Liam Williams did that well, never threw anything out but made sure to position himself perfectly to break Gilroys stride.

Was a baffling decision, he mightn't have thrown anything out but he stopped dead in Gilroys path with no attempt to play the ball

It was professional play from Williams and there's isnt a law which supports the Ulster-assertion that he committed foul play. Then again Liam Williams is Welsh so the accusation will fly around.

Oh wind your neck in would you, you really do seem to be the most miserable of people always bitching and moaning

Says the cyclops always bitching and moaning about Liam Williams.

When did I ever complain?

FYI

Law 10.1 (d)

A player must not intentionally move or stand in a position that prevents an opponent from playing the ball.

In every Ulster/Scarlets game you (and a host of others) whine about Liam Williams - good game from him I thought.

Ah that clears it up then, Williams did nothing wrong.

Officials 1-0 Kingpsan fanboys.

Bullcrap! Ive never complained about him once but you keep making crap up

You've a strange interpretation of standing in front of a player preventing them playing the ball not being standing in front of the player playing the ball

Takes a real blinkered mind to do that

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?

It's interesting.

Patchell is a better FB than FH in my opinion,

However, he wasn't doing this badly at FH for the Blues.

Perhaps it is because of the different styles of play. The Scarlets are more reliant on an organiser at 10, while the Blues do a lot through 9 as well.

Scarlets have two really talented players at 9 & 10, but neither seem to be really able to take control of a game.

Just ignore him, please.

wales606 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?  

It's interesting.

Patchell is a better FB than FH in my opinion,

However, he wasn't doing this badly at FH for the Blues.

Perhaps it is because of the different styles of play. The Scarlets are more reliant on an organiser at 10, while the Blues do a lot through 9 as well.

Scarlets have two really talented players at 9 & 10, but neither seem to be really able to take control of a game.

Patchell at the Blues was a better 10 than Anscombe for me who was always a better fb in Super Rugby

Also, as a neutral, Williams did nothing against the law of the game. You often see players continue in their line of travel in order to block attackers, as long as their don't change their line then the law is not currently interpreted as being foul play. It wasn't even a grey area tbh.

wales606 wrote:Also, as a neutral, Williams did nothing against the law of the game. You often see players continue in their line of travel in order to block attackers, as long as their don't change their line then the law is not currently interpreted as being foul play. It wasn't even a grey area tbh.

If he had kept running and made contact that would have been ok, the fact he stopped is what made it foul play for me especially as he was not trying to make a tackle

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?  

It's interesting.

Patchell is a better FB than FH in my opinion,

However, he wasn't doing this badly at FH for the Blues.

Perhaps it is because of the different styles of play. The Scarlets are more reliant on an organiser at 10, while the Blues do a lot through 9 as well.

Scarlets have two really talented players at 9 & 10, but neither seem to be really able to take control of a game.

Patchell at the Blues was a better 10 than Anscombe for me who was always a better fb in Super Rugby

I think Anscombe took some time to get a run of games, and to adjust to the style of rugby (and coming in straight form a SR season), but I think it became clear to most Blues fans at during the second half of last season that Anscombe is a far better 10.

Anscombe has learnt how to a control a game, and works very well with Williams (either) and Lee-Lo in midfield to make the right call. I have been impressed with how well the Blues 9 & 10 have controlled the game at the start of this season.

Anscombe could us a longer boot though, hope we can tempt Halfpenny back next season when he is under threat of Gatland's law if he stay abroad.

Commiserations, Scarlets. Not a great first half from you, but grew into the game and put us under pressure in the second. Think you will continue to improve and challenge for a top 6 finish.

Thought that was a very good game. We should have made more of our opportunities in the first half, but lack of composure cost us at least one Try. Still a very good first half with some fantastic rugby on display.

Browne and O'Connor had very good games. Jackson was superb. Gilroy was on fire (the competition driving him?). Great to see Henderson back, and he showed glimpses of what we have been missing. Sure he will start next week. Think Ah You was very good, which is a huge relief. Piutau is sheer class, and I just laughed at his intercept. Overall I'm really pleased with the 23, including Lloyd!

Pretty much the result I expected, and happy enough with a four point win, even if five points looked on after the first half.

Liam Williams prevented a certain Try, and fair play to him. Class player and his experience just kept him on the right side of the ref.

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:Also, as a neutral, Williams did nothing against the law of the game. You often see players continue in their line of travel in order to block attackers, as long as their don't change their line then the law is not currently interpreted as being foul play. It wasn't even a grey area tbh.

If he had kept running and made contact that would have been ok, the fact he stopped is what made it foul play for me especially as he was not trying to make a tackle

Correct me if I am wrong, but to me it looked like he only stopped after he had made contact. He may have slowed down slightly, but did look like he stopped. Slowing down on your line is also not illegal, and while it might be slightly cynical, all the best rugby players will make use of whatever advantage they can to try to win - It is what he should have done effectively.

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:Also, as a neutral, Williams did nothing against the law of the game. You often see players continue in their line of travel in order to block attackers, as long as their don't change their line then the law is not currently interpreted as being foul play. It wasn't even a grey area tbh.

If he had kept running and made contact that would have been ok, the fact he stopped is what made it foul play for me especially as he was not trying to make a tackle

I am an Ulster fan too Marty but I don't believe that was a foul tbh, he did stop but he has no requirement to keep running, he did not move in any way to block off Gilroy, Gilroy could have went round him but did not. I think Whitehouse got it spot on, did Williams know he was making it harder if he stopped, most likely yes but did he block off Gilroy no.

wales606 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:Also, as a neutral, Williams did nothing against the law of the game. You often see players continue in their line of travel in order to block attackers, as long as their don't change their line then the law is not currently interpreted as being foul play. It wasn't even a grey area tbh.

If he had kept running and made contact that would have been ok, the fact he stopped is what made it foul play for me especially as he was not trying to make a tackle

Correct me if I am wrong, but to me it looked like he only stopped after he had made contact. He may have slowed down slightly, but did look like he stopped. Slowing down on your line is also not illegal, and while it might be slightly cynical, all the best rugby players will make use of whatever advantage they can to try to win - It is what he should have done effectively.

Contact came just after he stopped as he fell over and it was his leg that Gilroy went over

Any Scarlets fans out there?

What on earth has happened at the start of this season?

0 points from 3 games is a real disaster.

marty2086 wrote:Bullcrap! Ive never complained about him once but you keep making crap up

You've a strange interpretation of standing in front of a player preventing them playing the ball not being standing in front of the player playing the ball

Takes a real blinkered mind to do that

No laws were broken. Questions over the scrum all game but Williams was one of a few to give 100% as per usual.

Blinkered? Reminds me of a certain live crowd.

wales606 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?  

It's interesting.

Patchell is a better FB than FH in my opinion,

However, he wasn't doing this badly at FH for the Blues.

Perhaps it is because of the different styles of play. The Scarlets are more reliant on an organiser at 10, while the Blues do a lot through 9 as well.

Scarlets have two really talented players at 9 & 10, but neither seem to be really able to take control of a game.

Patchell at the Blues was a better 10 than Anscombe for me who was always a better fb in Super Rugby

I think Anscombe took some time to get a run of games, and to adjust to the style of rugby (and coming in straight form a SR season), but I think it became clear to most Blues fans at during the second half of last season that Anscombe is a far better 10.

Anscombe has learnt how to a control a game, and works very well with Williams (either) and Lee-Lo in midfield to make the right call. I have been impressed with how well the Blues 9 & 10 have controlled the game at the start of this season.

Anscombe could us a longer boot though, hope we can tempt Halfpenny back next season when he is under threat of Gatland's law if he stay abroad.

Agree with everything you say here in both comments 606. You can also credit Wilson with the work he's done. I mean, he's even managed to make Andrews, Shingler and Cuthbert look like decent players...

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Bullcrap! Ive never complained about him once but you keep making crap up

You've a strange interpretation of standing in front of a player preventing them playing the ball not being standing in front of the player playing the ball

Takes a real blinkered mind to do that

No laws were broken. Questions over the scrum all game but Williams was one of a few to give 100% as per usual.

Blinkered? Reminds me of a certain live crowd.

Hmmm.... We can all be blinkered as fans. I don't really like the booing, but it isn't any worse than what we witness in the Regions, including the Dragons!! It's pantomime stuff, and not to taken too seriously. It might appear to be worse because there tends to be more fans at Ravers, but it really isn't any worse, and there's no point grumbling about it

How was there only 3 tries in this game? I watch the first 30 min and it was end to end stuff.

mikey_dragon wrote:

wales606 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

wales606 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Couple things about this evening; 3 games in and it's clear that Patchell is a shocking fly-half. Why on earth was he not swapped around with Aled Thomas?  

It's interesting.

Patchell is a better FB than FH in my opinion,

However, he wasn't doing this badly at FH for the Blues.

Perhaps it is because of the different styles of play. The Scarlets are more reliant on an organiser at 10, while the Blues do a lot through 9 as well.

Scarlets have two really talented players at 9 & 10, but neither seem to be really able to take control of a game.

Patchell at the Blues was a better 10 than Anscombe for me who was always a better fb in Super Rugby

I think Anscombe took some time to get a run of games, and to adjust to the style of rugby (and coming in straight form a SR season), but I think it became clear to most Blues fans at during the second half of last season that Anscombe is a far better 10.

Anscombe has learnt how to a control a game, and works very well with Williams (either) and Lee-Lo in midfield to make the right call. I have been impressed with how well the Blues 9 & 10 have controlled the game at the start of this season.

Anscombe could us a longer boot though, hope we can tempt Halfpenny back next season when he is under threat of Gatland's law if he stay abroad.

Agree with everything you say here in both comments 606. You can also credit Wilson with the work he's done. I mean, he's even managed to make Andrews, Shingler and Cuthbert look like decent players...

Seen some interviews with the player who have talked a lot about the fact that they all have very clear roles in the team and that they all understand what they should be doing on the pitch, which is really helping with consistency. He is a fantastic set-piece coach (one of the best around if you ask me) and is clearly taking that mind-set into the rest of his coaching.

Wilson will be Wales head coach at some point. Unfortunately I fear he may be too good to stay at the Blues for the long term.

profitius wrote:How was there only 3 tries in this game? I watch the first 30 min and it was end to end stuff.

Scarlets butchered about 3 tries in the second half and Ulster butchered about 3 in the first (in the time I was concentrating rather than trying to listen to the Blues game on the radio)

Scarlets could do with someone like Wilson as they look very poorly coached IMO, although the effort was there tonight and perhaps that hasn't been in them in recent weeks.

Munchkin wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Bullcrap! Ive never complained about him once but you keep making crap up

You've a strange interpretation of standing in front of a player preventing them playing the ball not being standing in front of the player playing the ball

Takes a real blinkered mind to do that

No laws were broken. Questions over the scrum all game but Williams was one of a few to give 100% as per usual.

Blinkered? Reminds me of a certain live crowd.

Hmmm.... We can all be blinkered as fans. I don't really like the booing, but it isn't any worse than what we witness in the Regions, including the Dragons!! It's pantomime stuff, and not to taken too seriously. It might appear to be worse because there tends to be more fans at Ravers, but it really isn't any worse, and there's no point grumbling about it

You could be right about ravers, which is why I stated I wasn't sure if it's considered a good or bad thing!

I don't think it's pivac but the unqualified coaches in Steven jones, ioan Cunningham and Byron Hayward.

I've heard the nonsense this off season that the Scarlett's have recruited the best back line in Europe (although that's mainly come from the pot bellied farmers in Ceredigion) but it was clear last year in Europe that their biggest weakness is a pack full of softies. Money should have been spent on beefing up that pack but they still rely on second rate forwards this season

They lack good ball carriers in the forwards.

They don't, I'm not sure why people have blamed a lack of ball carriers? It was my first time watching them this season and they were so badly drilled compared to Ulster. They should have recruited a back-up 8 as their front line ones are always injured. I don't think Owens is their best hooker either.

Well played Ulster, That was the 1st half decent performance from the Scarlets this season and certainly our best defensive performance in quite some time.
The stronger team won today without question and looking at the way the Ulster backline performed the claims of the Scarlets backline been the best in the league are very misguided.

Good luck for the rest of your games bar one.