European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

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European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Sin é on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Oh dear. Not working out as planned then! Just going after the money doesn't always work out.

Also interesting is that Racing v Munster is on Free to Air in France (Round 1).


European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV
Organisers will treat Ireland differently with more free-to-air coverage but not before 2019

The organisers of the European Champions Cup will look to bring their flagship tournament back to terrestrial television in Ireland, albeit only from the 2019-20 season onwards and in a limited capacity, while selling rights to one pay-per-view broadcasting company rather than two.

This season’s tournament will be the third of the compromise five-year deal for broadcasting rights in Ireland and the UK, in which the ten pool games across each weekend are split between Sky Sports and BT Sport. The Director General of EPCR (European Professional Club Rugby) Vincent Gaillard accepts that this is an unsatisfactory arrangement.

This is particularly so in Ireland, where not only are viewers obliged to subscribe to both Sky Sports and BT Sports (via eirSport) but in many instances, such as those who subscribe to Virgin, no longer receive the former Setanta or BT channels that are now part of the eir Sport package.

“The tenders will be launched during the course of 2017, so I’m hoping that by the end of next year we will have new contracts in place and therefore effective as of 2019 onwards.”

“I think we will treat Ireland separately in what we’re going to do, but more free to air coverage in Ireland is where we would start. Early days again but that would certainly be an objective.”

The last ‘live’ game on Irish terrestrial television was RTE’s coverage of the 2006 final between Munster and Biarritz, after which they had rights to highlights until 2009.

Nor, he maintained, will there be a split pay per view deal. “It could be a free-to-air broadcaster, and a pay-per-view broadcaster, as we have in France for instance. But not two pay-per-view broadcasters. It is not working very well for us at the moment.”

However the current deal in France has further marginalised the European Champions Cup, as all ten games each weekend are on beIN Sports, whereas Canal+ has retained the rights to the Top 14, with just one Champions Cup and one Challenge Cup game free to air on France Television each weekend.
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After last season’s final in Lyon for the final, this season’s finals will be held in Murrayfield. Expressions of interest in hosting the 2018 final have been received from both traditional and non-traditional rugby venues, with Gaillard revealing that EPCR are looking more toward the latter; specifically Italy and Spain.

“Italy is a place to start. Spain would be another one and there’s a couple more as well that could be of interest but it would be fair to say we’ll focus on those two first.”

The objective of five commercial partners has yet to happen, and entering the third season under EPCR, only former title sponsors Heineken (and for a much reduced level) and Turkish Airlines remain official partners.

Gaillard maintained that a third partner will be announced shortly, adding: “I’m pretty certain that within a year or possibly two we will have completed all five (partners), maybe six.”

As for last season’s Anglo-French carve-up of the knock-out stags in the Champions Cup, Gaillard said: “I certainly hope it will be broken. We definitely want to see the Irish provinces coming back strong. We want a truly European tournament. It’s in absolutely no-one’s interest for the competition to end up as a French or English (tournament).”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/european-champions-cup-set-to-return-to-irish-terrestrial-tv-1.2818440

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Sorry lord you seem to have missed the point that the op is not from the irfu or any irish broadcasters.
So yes I will take the urine when you have so wildly miss read the opening post.
The man in charge of the Euro cup wants the Euro cup on one single broadcaster. Feck all to do with us

So who is going to air this in Ireland if it is not BT sport ?

I don't know. But until we do how about we stay calm

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But IRISH people still contribute a lot to Pro12 - they still have to pay for Sky coverage, Sky don't give them coverage for free... Sky then gives money to Pro12.

Forget SKY. WE all pay for SKY, not just the Irish. I am talking about the Irish equivalent of BBC Wales. They pay a lot less, so do BBC Scotland. I have conceded the point on here when people like you have said that broadcasters in Ireland cannot afford to pay more.

So how are they going to pay for the CC ? Why would they pay for it ? Unless it is all free for the broadcasters to air.

Well then what do BBC Wales pay for?  If you watch most games on Sky, why the need for BBC Wales repeating the coverage?  Is that what happens?  

So...good point at the end.  The future is the future and yet here we are debating it as though the broadcasting contracts were in.  Who knows how it's going to work at this stage but Sin likes to be mischievous Wink

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by LordDowlais on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:18 pm

Feck this, it is pointless, you can all only see your own blinkered points of view. Either that, or you just all want to argue. If this happens in Ireland, then the Pro12 will not survive, as I honestly believe that the Irish broadcasters CANNOT afford to pay for both the Pro12 and the Franglo cup, not unless they severely under pay for one product.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Feck this, it is pointless, you can all only see your own blinkered points of view. Either that, or you just all want to argue. If this happens in Ireland, then the Pro12 will not survive, as I honestly believe that the Irish broadcasters CANNOT afford to pay for both the Pro12 and the Franglo cup, not unless they severely under pay for one product.

Always so dramatic Lord.  Always the World's End with you.  You are a decent guy and your heart is in the right place (I'm not sure Phill has a heart Whistle )

..but it's always one step away from oblivion with you.  Let's hope the Pro12 keeps getting better and the European element becomes more representative of all three Leagues again.


Last edited by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Munchkin on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Didn't you get the memo notch. The irish are secretly out to destroy the pro12 and blame it all on the welsh, whilst simultaneously proving our true worth the the PRL and the French in the money we bring to the Euro cup, thus ushering in an Irish/English/French super league and bring about our secret goal of destroying welsh rugby.
It was all spelled out in smoke signals and hand gestures by dudley Phillips at the weekend

And here comes the sarcasm. Rolling Eyes

This is typical of our Irish members on here, you will skirt around the point in hand and use sarcasm to down play it. Kevin and Perry,aka marty and munchkin will be along next to turn this into a Wales V Ireland bitchfest next.

We have had these debates for ages on here, about how much each nations broadcasters are paying for the tv rights when it comes to the Pro12. We are constantly told by the Irish that BBC wales can pay more as they have the backing of the BBC. Yet the pot is empty in Ireland after the Irish broadcasters have paid for everything else. So please stop making out as if I am a loony.

Now all of a sudden, there are funds available to pay for the Franglo cup. So that is the no money in the Irish broadcasters pot argument put to bed. We need to compete with the French and English, we need better TV deals put in place. That will not happen in Ireland now, most of you will be watching the CC on free to air. The Pro12 is always going to be on a loser.

Oh, right, you're the one who cries 'victim' every chance you get. You're the one who claims never to be abusive, and then you have a go at me even though I wasn't part of the discussion? mad


Laugh

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:23 pm

Calm down lord.
Have a look at liberty global, what they own and what they are rumoured to be looking to buy the rights of.
Then relax

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Notch on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:29 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So are the Irish TV broadcaster going to be paying to air the Franglo cup on free to air ? Or not ?

Have you actually read the article and not just the headline ? There is no Irish broadcaster quoted. There is nobody involved in Irish Rugby or broadcasting at any level quoted. The only person quoted is Vincent Galliard, Director General of the EPCR. He says;

“I think we will treat Ireland separately in what we’re going to do, but more free to air coverage in Ireland is where we would start. Early days again but that would certainly be an objective.”

“It could be a free-to-air broadcaster, and a pay-per-view broadcaster, as we have in France for instance. But not two pay-per-view broadcasters. It is not working very well for us at the moment.”

No-one even knows if this will actually happen, how much it would cost the broadcasters, if they will be able to make a deal at a price Irish broadcasters can afford or if they will just consolidate all their coverage on Sky Sports in Ireland. Do you understand the difference between a hypothetical situation they may explore in several years and a completed deal?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Feck this, it is pointless, you can all only see your own blinkered points of view. Either that, or you just all want to argue. If this happens in Ireland, then the Pro12 will not survive, as I honestly believe that the Irish broadcasters CANNOT afford to pay for both the Pro12 and the Franglo cup, not unless they severely under pay for one product.

Yes and since it's the ERCC floating this idea then they must be prepared to accept underpayment.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by profitius on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:45 pm

Thats some twisting of logic you're doing there LD. Very Happy

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:52 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Feck this, it is pointless, you can all only see your own blinkered points of view. Either that, or you just all want to argue. If this happens in Ireland, then the Pro12 will not survive, as I honestly believe that the Irish broadcasters CANNOT afford to pay for both the Pro12 and the Franglo cup, not unless they severely under pay for one product.

Yes and since it's the ERCC floating this idea then they must be prepared to accept underpayment.

All I took from that article is that the guy that will be selling the tv rights is trying to drum up interest in the tv rights.

BT Sport and Sky Sports will both go for the UK broadcasting rights. The money they will pay for UK will dwarf anything for Ireland. If anything they might bid for UK & I as a bundle. ERCC is worried about this and is trying to get a figure to value of the rights for Ireland to add on to any BT or Sky bid. But in order to get a nibble from TV3/RTE/TG4 they throw out the nice little comments....... then sell to BT or Sky for a tiny bit more.



Do the ERCC even have the ability to sell broadcast rights for any matches involving PRL teams?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:12 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Do the ERCC even have the ability to sell broadcast rights for any matches involving PRL teams?

If they don't then there is not much point in their existence. I suppose a more prudent point is how much mind control the PRL have over the ERCC. Thus were the reasons for the admin changes in the first place.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:14 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Feck this, it is pointless, you can all only see your own blinkered points of view. Either that, or you just all want to argue. If this happens in Ireland, then the Pro12 will not survive, as I honestly believe that the Irish broadcasters CANNOT afford to pay for both the Pro12 and the Franglo cup, not unless they severely under pay for one product.

Yes and since it's the ERCC floating this idea then they must be prepared to accept underpayment.

All I took from that article is that the guy that will be selling the tv rights is trying to drum up interest in the tv rights.

BT Sport and Sky Sports will both go for the UK broadcasting rights.  The money they will pay for UK will dwarf anything for Ireland.  If anything they might bid for UK & I as a bundle.  ERCC is worried about this and is trying to get a figure to value of the rights for Ireland to add on to any BT or Sky bid.  But in order to get a nibble from TV3/RTE/TG4 they throw out the nice little comments....... then sell to BT or Sky for a tiny bit more.


Do the ERCC even have the ability to sell broadcast rights for any matches involving PRL teams?


I think that this is probably very close to the truth Bandwagon.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:26 pm

No - I think it actually and honestly is more a declared policy or proposal of getting the product more fully bedded down in a recalcitrant Ireland by using the carrot of more free-to-air availability.

Hmmm...Ireland will become more emotionally involved when Provinces get back up the ladder. I don't think a directive of "Watch us Franglos play, you ungrateful basterdes!" will work Cool

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Do the ERCC even have the ability to sell broadcast rights for any matches involving PRL teams?

If they don't then there is not much point in their existence.  I suppose a more prudent point is how much mind control the PRL have over the ERCC.  Thus were the reasons for the admin changes in the first place.

They have more than mind control, do they not have seats at the table with voting rights?

The problem previously was that the PRL didn't have voting rights at the table. RFU agreed that the HC would sell the tv rights, however the RFU had previously said to PRL that they had the right to negotiate their own tv deals. Effectively RFU had given away the rights twice. Effectively but not actually as the RFU could put any teams forward to represent them in the HC so it was technically different but effectively in the real world the PRL teams were always going to be representing english rugby at european comp level.

The reason for the admin changes is that the PRL and LNR wanted voting rights, seats at the table and a larger piece of the pie. Oh and to improve the quality of the product being offered in the marquee competition. And make things fairer, a meritocracy where anything potentially negative or damaging to the game is kept behind closed doors and all while being completely above board of course.


Keep the masses on side by mentioning free-to-air once in a while and all that. Don't actually do anything about it, just mention it, that's all.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:No - I think it actually and honestly is more a declared policy or proposal of getting the product more fully bedded down in a recalcitrant Ireland by using the carrot of more free-to-air availability.

Hmmm...Ireland will become more emotionally involved when Provinces get back up the ladder.  I don't think a directive of "Watch us Franglos play, you ungrateful basterdes!" will work Cool

I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

In terms of your first point we need to wait and see how much money is brought in by the TV deal before we judge. If two pay per views tv providers weren't bringing in enough money then it's time to shake things up and try a different strategy.

After we Franglos are all about the money and power aren't we? No such thing as a free lunch and all that! Wink

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by BamBam on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:41 pm

Claiming victory because BBC Wales chooses to pay more for rugby than a commercial organisation

BBC Wales can only spend what it does because it's subsided by the English, they don't have to worry about balancing the books

Commercial organisations have to make commercial decisions, not use pie in the sky bluster about how "the Irish" need to do more

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:49 pm

stub wrote:

I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it. Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe. Tough going though, getting that representation every year.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
stub wrote:

I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK  But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it.  Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe.  Tough going though, getting that representation every year.

Well that is what makes the Pro12 such an interesting league. Multinational fun just about every weekend...

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:06 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:But IRISH people still contribute a lot to Pro12 - they still have to pay for Sky coverage, Sky don't give them coverage for free... Sky then gives money to Pro12.

Forget SKY. WE all pay for SKY, not just the Irish. I am talking about the Irish equivalent of BBC Wales. They pay a lot less, so do BBC Scotland. I have conceded the point on here when people like you have said that broadcasters in Ireland cannot afford to pay more.

So how are they going to pay for the CC ? Why would they pay for it ? Unless it is all free for the broadcasters to air.

This has been explained a number of times before.

Short answer - there isn't an equivalent of BBC Wales in the Republic of Ireland. There is a national public service broadcaster, RTE. There is an Irish language station TG4, and an independent TV station - TV3.

The Republic of Ireland is the territory for ROI TV rights. In which there are three teams. BBC NI have Northern Ireland as their territory with one team. BBC Wales have four teams in their territory. BBC Alba have two teams in their territory.

Since the last TV deal was negotiated by Celtic Rugby, the TV landscape has changed in ROI. TV3 has been bought out by a global networks company Liberty, and Setanta Sports has been bought by telecoms provider, Eir. Eirsport are now competing for content, particularly rugby. They bid for Six Nations and RWC 2019 successfully, so are making inroads already. TV3 invested in new equipment/studios and bid successfully for RWC 2015. Both companies have said they are interested in bidding for more rights in the future, including PRO12 when it comes up next.

RTE which withdrew from bidding when Sky appeared on the scene, have now also lost the Six Nations, and therefore, may decide to bid for other rugby comps in the future with the monies not used.

Capisce?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by wolfball on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:10 pm

SecretFly wrote:
stub wrote:

I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK  But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it.  Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe.  Tough going though, getting that representation every year.

Exactly, we fight a season to get four places for ireland when some countries auto qualify +6 places... But lets not rethread those arguments again. Whistle

Anyways, why did the head of RTE say they will only pay for the ECC if its at least 2x the broadcasting deal that they don't pay for the PRO12? Sounds like 0*2x=? to me....

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:18 pm

wolfball wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
stub wrote:

I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK  But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it.  Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe.  Tough going though, getting that representation every year.

Exactly, we fight a season to get four places for ireland when some countries auto qualify +6 places... But lets not rethread those arguments again. Whistle

Anyways, why did the head of RTE say they will only pay  for the ECC if its at least 2x the broadcasting deal that they don't pay for the PRO12? Sounds like 0*2x=? to me....

Agreed - it's been done to death. Nothing new to say really.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:22 pm

BamBam wrote:Claiming victory because BBC Wales chooses to pay more for rugby than a commercial organisation

BBC Wales can only spend what it does because it's subsided by the English, they don't have to worry about balancing the books

Commercial organisations have to make commercial decisions, not use pie in the sky bluster about how "the Irish" need to do more

Precisely, Bambam.

BBC Wales/S4c have a combined £160m annual budget paid from the total U.K. Licence fee income. It is a regional network that is heavily subsidised, as is BBC Ni and BBC Alba, but their budgets are lower.

In contrast, TG4 has a budget of approx £40m.

BBC Wales gets all the home games of the four Welsh regions that Sky doesn't take first pick on, and have the most home games on territorial TV, which is why they pay more. BBC Ni has one team, and pays accordingly, and BBC Alba with two teams. Sky take a lot of the three provinces games, and TG4 get the rest.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:29 pm

wolfball wrote:
SecretFly wrote:[quote="
I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK  But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it.  Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe.  Tough going

Anyways, why did the head of RTE say they will only pay for the ECC if its at least 2x the broadcasting deal that they don't pay for the PRO12? Sounds like 0*2x=? to me....

When did Head of RTE say this, Wolfball?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:48 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
BamBam wrote:Claiming victory because BBC Wales chooses to pay more for rugby than a commercial organisation

BBC Wales can only spend what it does because it's subsided by the English, they don't have to worry about balancing the books

Commercial organisations have to make commercial decisions, not use pie in the sky bluster about how "the Irish" need to do more

Precisely, Bambam.

BBC Wales/S4c have a combined £160m annual budget paid from the total U.K. Licence fee income.  It is a regional network that is heavily subsidised, as is BBC Ni and BBC Alba, but their budgets are lower.

In contrast, TG4 has a budget of approx £40m.  

BBC Wales gets all the home games of the four Welsh regions that Sky doesn't take first pick on, and have the most home games on territorial TV, which is why they pay more.  BBC Ni has one team, and pays accordingly, and BBC Alba with two teams.  Sky take a lot of the three provinces games, and TG4 get the rest.  

Hang on a minute. Are you saying the region's are being unfairly financed by the whole of the uk?
There existence is subsidised by uk tax payers?
How is that fair ?
I demand we take every opportunity to poit out this unfair gerrymandering of British tax payer subsides for the sole benefit of the region's. How can we stay in a league that allows this?

I demand answers


angel

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:51 pm

It's ok Baboon - it's the same for BBC NI and BBC Alba too apparently.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:52 pm

Phill will explain everything tomorrow, carpet. Until then, go sleep. You'll need the rest Wink

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:53 pm

Surely the PRL should protest? They need the money more

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:Phill will explain everything tomorrow, carpet.  Until then, go sleep.  You'll need the rest Wink

Sleep is for the weak. Also I'm technically at work so prob should stay awake

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by stub on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:57 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Surely the PRL should protest? They need the money more

Don't worry - they'll be reet!

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:14 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
BamBam wrote:Claiming victory because BBC Wales chooses to pay more for rugby than a commercial organisation

BBC Wales can only spend what it does because it's subsided by the English, they don't have to worry about balancing the books

Commercial organisations have to make commercial decisions, not use pie in the sky bluster about how "the Irish" need to do more

Precisely, Bambam.

BBC Wales/S4c have a combined £160m annual budget paid from the total U.K. Licence fee income.  It is a regional network that is heavily subsidised, as is BBC Ni and BBC Alba, but their budgets are lower.

In contrast, TG4 has a budget of approx £40m.  

BBC Wales gets all the home games of the four Welsh regions that Sky doesn't take first pick on, and have the most home games on territorial TV, which is why they pay more.  BBC Ni has one team, and pays accordingly, and BBC Alba with two teams.  Sky take a lot of the three provinces games, and TG4 get the rest.  

Hang on a minute. Are you saying the region's are being unfairly financed by the whole of the uk?
There existence is subsidised by uk tax payers?
How is that fair ?
I demand we take every opportunity to poit out this unfair gerrymandering of British tax payer subsides for the sole benefit of the region's. How can we stay in a league that allows this?

I demand answers


angel

I should clarify further, lest there be misunderstanding what I mean by subsidisation.   BBC Wales/S4C spend about £155-160m on programming each year - this includes BBC One Wales and BBC Two Wales, and two radio stations and the Welsh orchestra too.    The region of Wales itself raises approx £180m in TV licence revenue.    The subsidisation comes into play because it is a regional station in the network that 'opts out' from the national network to transmit its own local programming.   Thus it doesn't have to pay for 100% of its broadcast content, since some programmes are broadcast nationally across the network and are paid for from the BBC network budget. In addition, some of its capital investment and studio infrastructure is paid for separately. They employ 1200 people approx.

As a comparison, RTE, the Irish national public service broadcaster,  employs about 1,850 people, a somewhat lower licence fee income (€180m), but unlike the BBC allows/requires commercial advertising income (€155m).  RTE doesn't have regional stations, but operates three distinct national TV channels, a news channel, online services, 4 radio stations, and a few orchestras.  It has to meet all of its capital investment and infrastructure from its budget income.

Commercial broadcasters such as TV3 (who compete for advertising euros) have argued that public service stations like RTE (and BBC for that matter) are subsidised by the public through licence fee income raised by the state.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:33 pm

Reverting back to the topic in the OP, it's not really surprising that EPCR are going to include terrestrial TV in future deals.

Last season, the PRO12 final garnered approx 100,000 peak viewers in Ireland and Britain on Sky. TG4 got peak viewing of 282,000 for the final.

The Premiership final in 2015 had a peak audience of 297,000 on BT.

PRL have now agreed with BT that some Premiership games will go live on terrestrial TV in order to drive viewership figures.

Bottom line is that Satellite/PPV viewership will always lag terrestrial for the foreseeable future.

The fudge required for the current European comps between Sky/BT didn't help matters, and a single PPV broadcaster in the next deal would make sense, as would allowing some of the games onto terrestrial. It also makes sense to look at it for Ireland since the BT subscriber footprint is nothing near what Sky has (720,000 approx). Terrestrial also makes it more attractive to sponsors, business interests across all the nations involved.

The structure of the competition and when it occurs in the season is also an important part in increasing its value, but that decision is ultimately up to the organisers and stakeholders, not the TV networks.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:44 pm

wolfball wrote:

Exactly, we fight a season to get four places for ireland when some countries auto qualify +6 places... But lets not rethread those arguments again. Whistle
.

You're right, it's grossly unfair.

Ireland are able to get 100% of their top flight teams into the European cup while the poor Franglos are capped at ~50%. Maybe next time the broadcasting rights are up for grabs we could right this wrong. angel

Anyway, I'm not too sure if this will come of anything, but I hope for the Irish audience that they do get some free to air European Rugby. I wish we had some here to grow the audience, even if it was only 1 match per round.

I'm not too sure that anything can be read into them looking for a single subscription broadcaster rather than the 2 they have now. Isn't that what everyone expected? The current model only came about because both Sky and BT had legitimate claims to any future tournament and this was the only compromise.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by wolfball on Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:53 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
wolfball wrote:
SecretFly wrote:[quote="
I don't think anyone ever believed the "watch us Franglos play" bit Fly. I thought back then and still think now that everyone knew a good (and most importantly profitable) European cup needs strong teams from all 3 leagues - that is where the interest comes from. I think last year was just a bit of a strange one anyway in terms of poor Pro 12 representation.

OK  But it still needs to be said that Pro12 is a multi-National league and that I only honestly care about the Irish bit of it.  Thankfully that means all four Provinces this year in Europe.  Tough going

Anyways, why did the head of RTE say they will only pay  for the ECC if its at least 2x the broadcasting deal that they don't pay for the PRO12? Sounds like 0*2x=? to me....

When did Head of RTE say this, Wolfball?

Sorry if it wasn;t clear that no one from RTE said anything about this matter but tongue was firmly in cheek for those posters who choose to argue over articles they don't bother to read. Not you Pot Hale thumbsup

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:14 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
You're right, it's grossly unfair.

Ireland are able to get 100% of their top flight teams into the European cup while the poor Franglos are capped at ~50%. Maybe next time the broadcasting rights are up for grabs we could right this wrong. angel

Oh I do ever hope so, Fuzzy Hug

But you got your percentages thing a tad wrong there.  This year Ireland have 100% of their top flight teams in Europe, yes - and had to struggle all the way to get them there.  Great work from the gang last season.  But in terms of yearly competition guarantees, it's only 25% of Irish teams that have a right to show up.... meaning only One has a right to show up.  
Franglos get their 50% apiece rights.  So Ireland based teams have to work damn hard to make up the numbers but Franglos always have 6 each at least at the party. Percentages don't win cups but numbers of entrants undoubtedly help rise the odds in favour.

However, as others have said, that's a goose that's been already over-cooked in many threads gone by.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by LordDowlais on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:44 am

All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by LordDowlais on Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:27 am

carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Sin é on Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:55 am

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

I'd imagine they are looking back to what made the Heineken Cup great and attractive to everyone. Provincial rugby became popular in Ireland because it was on Free to Air in the late 90s early 00s (that and the general appeal of Munster). The Irish supporters add much needed colour and they are great travellers. French add great colour but they are not great travellers.

With added colour, large travelling support, the competition will become more attractive to sponsors and media.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:05 am

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

From the budgets of one of the broadcasters operating in ROI.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:21 am

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

We're going to rob a bank when that happens.


On a more real footing - IF it were to happen, then a balancing of books would happen. Undoubtedly, if televising the Champions Cup required MORE money from an Irish free-to-air channel, then other areas already being funded would be cut back. That mightn't go down too well with other strands of society that like getting other things besides sport and rugby - but that's the answer. If money is needed, and they want to do it - they'll rob Peter to pay Paul.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:21 am

To further complicate matters, the government requires the opt-out to Nations and Regions. There is a certain target of hours they must hit that must reflect Wales. Sport is very simply a straight-forward, cost effective way of doing this. Once you're paid for the actual rights, the production costs of an outside broadcast most weeks pales into the cost of commissioning and producing the equivalent hours of factual (or god forbid, drama) TV.

So what the Welsh broadcasters will pay to show rugby on TV reflects many factors other than just simply wanting to broadcast it. It's about Licence Fee Charter Renewal. It's about whatever the latest BBC initiative is on creating "centres of excellence" for different genres for different parts of the organisation.

Trying to compare the broadcasting decisions of BBC Wales and RTE is apples and oranges. Two radically different broadcasters, focussing on different teams, under different legal frameworks, in different countries, under different pressures. It's - pardon the pun - fruitless.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:34 am

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

We're going to rob a bank when that happens.


On a more real footing - IF it were to happen, then a balancing of books would happen. Undoubtedly, if televising the Champions Cup required MORE money from an Irish free-to-air channel, then other areas already being funded would be cut back. That mightn't go down too well with other strands of society that like getting other things besides sport and rugby - but that's the answer. If money is needed, and they want to do it - they'll rob Peter to pay Paul.

If it was RTE they could just use the monies that they now won't be spending on Six Nations.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:38 am

There you go, and that might be just were that dough is gonna come from.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by carpet baboon on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:43 am

Well glad we have solved the funding problem for the pro12

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:56 am

SecretFly wrote:There you go, and that might be just were that dough is gonna come from.

Or it could come from TV3 whose new owners now go bed them bigger spending budgets.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:59 am

Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:There you go, and that might be just were that dough is gonna come from.

Or it could come from TV3 whose new owners now go bed them bigger spending budgets.

But aren't those the guys that are taking over 6N? Greedy f**ks!

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:07 am

SecretFly wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:There you go, and that might be just were that dough is gonna come from.

Or it could come from TV3 whose new owners now go bed them bigger spending budgets.

But aren't those the guys that are taking over 6N?  Greedy f**ks!

Hey. It's the televisual equivalent of a rugby club's sugar daddy. Reaching into their pockets.

At least it's their own money etc etc.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by Pot Hale on Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:31 am

SecretFly wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
SecretFly wrote:There you go, and that might be just were that dough is gonna come from.

Or it could come from TV3 whose new owners now go bed them bigger spending budgets.

But aren't those the guys that are taking over 6N? Greedy f**ks!

Or it could come from Eirsport who have got RWC 2019 and are also interested in bidding for PRO12.

Or I might bid for it. Who knows?


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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by SecretFly on Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:32 am

Is Eirsport free-to-air?

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:38 am

LordDowlais wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:All spectacularly missing the point on here. As always. If the Irish broadcasters  are going to be paying for the CC, where is the money going to come from ?

Still havnt read the article have you lord.
Irish tv hasn't bid offered or said it's going to pay for anything.
The fella help a press conference and said they would explore some ideas.

Also I have pointed you in the direction of information that could show you where money may come from if ever a deal was to be made.

Hug

OK, if this DOES happen, where is the money going to come from ?

We don't know,how could we possibly know?If it happens,we don't know which station will show it,so we obviously don't know where the money would come from.

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Re: European Champions Cup set to return to Irish terrestrial TV

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