Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

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Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Thread for the final few tournaments of the year. Main intrigue is around 9th place in the race (which will be a WTF qualifying position given Rafa's absence). Current live "race" points are as follows:

8. Thiem - 3215 points
9. Cilic - 3100 points
10. Berdych - 2890 points
11. Goffin - 2700 points
12. Kyrgios - 2460 points
13. Tsonga - 2380 points
14. Bautista-Agut - 2350 points

So with only one tournament to go, Thiem and Cilic control the last two spots and look fairly set. RBA and Tsonga need the title to have any shot but that probably would be enough bar some freak results. Goffin needs to make the final and that will be good enough unless Berdych wins the title (and would still be good enough if Thiem failed to make R16). Berdych can get there with a SF but only if Cilic doesn't make the QF or Thiem doesn't make R16.


Last edited by Born Slippy on Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Updated for Paris)

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by sportslover on Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:10 pm

Great result for Andy with the No.1 spot now there  for the taking.

How can you win the first set from being 6-1 down in the tie break Laugh

Raonic or Tsonga? in the semis should not really be a big problem apart from Andy possibly being tired, especially after the work he has put in over the last few months.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:11 pm

I'm going to disagree with banbro on that one, to me Murray looked fairly knackered out there, definitely his movement was not as sharp as usual (though possibly exaggerated by a fairly fast court and Berdych hitting big). But he played a smart match, saved energy when he could, served well, and took his chances. Agree with Craig that the biggest difference is that he looks so assured on court: when he closed to 3-6 in the TB you could see Berdych panicking, he went with different serving patterns and started missing first serves.

Good win for Murray overall.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:12 pm

Tsonga is very dangerous. He showed last week he can trouble Andy and in Paris, with his serve firing, he can cause real problems for Andy.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:15 pm

Berdych was leagues better today than he's been in any other match I've seen him play this year. Real signs that Goran has him moving in the right direction.

Raonic has started like a train in this match. What's with all the out of form players (bar Thiem) suddenly hitting form?

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:27 pm

Ok, Raobot has clearly been upgraded. Double break up on Tsonga, hitting the ball supremely.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Jermaine2015 on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:13 pm

Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by sportslover on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:33 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

Laugh Now do us all a favour,go find the nearest Autobahn and play with the traffic.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Jermaine2015 on Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:53 pm

sportslover wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

Laugh Now do us all a favour,go find the nearest Autobahn and play with the traffic.
Come say that to my face...see what the outcome is douche

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by dummy_half on Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:48 pm

Am I right to recall that Andy hasn't played Novak since the RG final?

If I have this right, MS1000 and GS since:

Wimbledon: Andy - Win, Novak lost R3
Rogers Cup: Andy - absent, Novak Win
(Olympics: Andy - win, Novak - lost R2)
Cinci: Andy - Lost final, Novak - Lost SF
USO - Andy - Lost QF, Novak - Lost Final
Shanghai Andy - Won, Novak - Lost SF
Paris: Andy - in SF, Novak - lost QF

So the bigger turn-round has been Novak's loss of form and relatively frequent defeats to guys that you really wouldn't expect (Querrey, Bustin-A-Gut etc), while ANdy has been able to consistently go deep in the tournaments, and is winning more because he isn't finding himself facing a good form Djokovic / Federer / Nadal in his way.

If you look back a bit further, to the start of the clay season, Andy's form over the last 6 or so months has been pretty special bar the disappointing USO blip, and would certainly have been enough to get him to #1 in times when the rest of the field were closer to the top guys. He has though undoubtedly been helped by Novak's form falling away.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by laverfan on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:15 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:
sportslover wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

Laugh Now do us all a favour,go find the nearest Autobahn and play with the traffic.
Come say that to my face...see what the outcome is douche

Glad to see the vast sea of the Internet can also a safety net! Please consider this fair warning not to use objectionable language. I will leave this up for any future reminders that may need to occur, should you transgress the line again.

Going to a restaurant where you do not like the food is not a very good idea, would you agree?

On a Tennis note, did you know that Murray may become the second oldest ATP #1 since rankings in 1973? Do you know who the first one is/was? (Google/ATP can help Wink )

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Chazfazzer on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:35 am

Looks like Tsonga has changed his service action since I last saw him play. Previously he used to slide his back foot up to towards his front one before jumping to hit the ball, whereas in the replay of the match vs Raonic today he kept both feet relatively stationary before jumping (similar to the likes of Federer). Compare this (2011): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIb6CRu_r5U to this (today): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9DvUOXN4NY.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:37 am

laverfan wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
sportslover wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

Laugh Now do us all a favour,go find the nearest Autobahn and play with the traffic.
Come say that to my face...see what the outcome is douche

Glad to see the vast sea of the Internet can also a safety net! Please consider this fair warning not to use objectionable language. I will leave this up for any future reminders that may need to occur, should you transgress the line again.

Going to a restaurant where you do not like the food is not a very good idea, would you agree?

On a Tennis note, did you know that Murray may become the second oldest ATP #1 since rankings in 1973? Do you know who the first one is/was? (Google/ATP can help Wink )

Well said laver fan.

The answer to your question is the great Australian player John Newcombe. Murray (if he does it) will set a new record as player with longest gap between first becoming No 2 (in 2009) and reaching No 1. All ifs for now.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:11 am

laverfan wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:
sportslover wrote:
Jermaine2015 wrote:Sad era for tennis when a bum like Murray, winning minor titles(Masters at the end of the season are the cheap ones), flukes #1 spot. Winning Wimbledon when his draw resembled a ATP500 event.

Laugh Now do us all a favour,go find the nearest Autobahn and play with the traffic.
Come say that to my face...see what the outcome is douche

Glad to see the vast sea of the Internet can also a safety net! Please consider this fair warning not to use objectionable language. I will leave this up for any future reminders that may need to occur, should you transgress the line again.

Going to a restaurant where you do not like the food is not a very good idea, would you agree?

On a Tennis note, did you know that Murray may become the second oldest ATP #1 since rankings in 1973? Do you know who the first one is/was? (Google/ATP can help Wink )
a) Someone posts a comment designed to be a tad inflammatory.
b) Someone posts a response requesting a) engages in an high risk activity likely to cause a)'s death.
c) a) replies with a threat.
d) Moderator steps in.

I was thinking of posting a more diffusive / deflective reply to a) using my extraordinary powers of wit and charm but alas b) and c) took place.

Oh well - new balls please ...

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:55 am

In all honesty people with axes to grind with certain players it clearly disqualified them from putting across an objective viewpoint. It is akin to asking a staunch Trump supporter to be objective about Clinton or a Rangers fan to be objective about Celtic and vice versa. You have no chance of it happening.

Anyway my take on Murray and IF he takes the No 1 is this. No doubting Djokovic form has fallen off a cliff - that is not up for debate from anyone. However, Djokovic (I do believe) had about a 5 to 6,000 point buffer when his loss of form set in. That is a heck of a lot of points to retrieve. Murray has done that by consistently winning tournaments and beating all before him. If he was as bad as detractors paint him there is no way on earth he would have reached that level of consistency. He has faced many top ten players and beat them handsomely.

Still not convinced well you then look to year nding ranking and Murray will be top of that IF he wins later today. Not enough? Okay then does tennis deserve a No 1 lacking motivation and finding wins hard to come by in the last six months of the season? If not then there is only one candidate that does - Andy Murray.

On subject of Murray getting lucky. Really? I would say he has been damned unlucky to have been plying his trade in tennis in an era containing the greatest player of all-time (Roger), the greatest clay-courter of all-time (Rafa) and another all-time great in Novak. Without them on the scene Iit is safe to say Murray's slam count would be into double figures.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:18 am

I don't think anyone reaching n°1 can be called "lucky" TBH. Oh sure, you can benefit from favourable circumstances to a degree, and it's true that Murray has taken advantage of Djokovic's poor form. But to reach n°1 means you're the best in the world at what you do, and that, regardless of circumstance, is a truly remarkable achievement that deserves celebrating.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:49 am

Murray won a fluke title at Wimbledon. Olympic gold wasn't a ranking event either.

Djokovic has won Melbourne, Paris, Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Toronto.Djokovic leads Murray 3-1 in 2016 h2h.

By contrast Murray wins Wimbledon, Rome and Shanghai. Two those after Djokovic was removed from his path.

Murray will be a weak, paper # 1

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:53 am

I agree that Murray will only get to number 1 because of Djokovic's poor form.  
But one must remember that Djokovic only got to number 1 because of Murray's poor form.
Also everyone knows that Federer only got to number 1 because of Fat Dave's poor diet.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by banbrotam on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:58 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray will be a weak, paper # 1

If he gets there, given your incisive comments, I'm interested in knowing whether you think he will be the weakest ever   Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:05 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray won a fluke title at Wimbledon. Olympic gold wasn't a ranking event either.

Djokovic has won Melbourne, Paris, Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Toronto.Djokovic leads Murray 3-1 in 2016 h2h.

By contrast Murray wins Wimbledon, Rome and Shanghai. Two those after Djokovic was removed from his path.

Murray will be a weak, paper # 1

A fluke is a one-off - this was Murray's second Wimbledon title. I wonder who Raonic beat in the semis to reach the final? Ah yes Roger Federer who was in a winning position in that match.

Djokovic has the balls to admit Murray thoroughly deserves the No 1 if he gets it. He categorically says Murray absolutely has earned it.

But like I say some posters cannot post objectively due to steaming hatred of Murray. Therefore those viewpoints cannot be taken seriously.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Calder106 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:08 am

Jermaine2015 wrote:Murray won a fluke title at Wimbledon. Olympic gold wasn't a ranking event either.

Djokovic has won Melbourne, Paris, Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Toronto.Djokovic leads Murray 3-1 in 2016 h2h.

By contrast Murray wins Wimbledon, Rome and Shanghai. Two those after Djokovic was removed from his path.

Murray will be a weak, paper # 1

Olympic gold wasn't a ranking event agreed. However he spent a lot of energy there to win (for no points) which may have affected his USO effort.

Murray was removed from Djokovic's path at both Indian Wells and Miami when he was having a bad spell. He also didn't play Toronto. So it's swings and roundabouts. Would it have made any difference ? Who knows. These two players have been seeded 1 and 2 in all events they have played this year which gives loads of advantages. If one of them doesn't get to the final of a tournament I don't see how it makes the other one lucky. They will have done their job.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by alfie on Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:14 pm

No point in even engaging with clowns like Jermaine 2015.

If Murray gets to number 1 he'll have earned it. Doesn't make him any more of a star than he already was : if he wants to be remembered as an all time great he will need to defend it.

Watch this space...

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by dummy_half on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:08 pm

Just looking at the former #1s list on the ATP site - since the official rankings started, there have been 25 number ones.

A few oddities - Hewitt with 80 weeks at #1 and 2 x year end, compares with Becker only being #1 for 12 weeks total. Career-wise, you'd definitely take Boris's as better, but it shows that LH was pretty dominant in the immediately pre-Federer era.

Pat Rafter only being #1 for 1 week, despite being a 2 x slam champion.

As for weakest #1s, Moya, Kafelnikov, Muster, Ferrero and Rios stand out as not being guys that achieved all that much. Murray certainly has more on his CV overall than any of them.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:15 pm

Is Rios the only slamless n°1 in the men's game? Underlines what a great achievement it is. Certainly all the "weaker" n°1s were fine players in their own right, though would agree with DH that Murray's career compares well to those he mentions.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:33 pm

Andy Murray is World No.1.

Sadly, he has been depraved of doing it on the court as Raonic has pulled out of the semi with injury. Gutted Andy couldn't get the chance to do it on court as I am sure he would have (won his last 7 matches against Raonic) but delighted he is now the World No.1.

I am thinking of that old Carpenters song right now.....Top of the World.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by summerblues on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:41 pm

Congrats Andy!

Who would have thought it.  A bit anticlimactic, I was getting ready to watch the match later this morning when I found out Raonic pulled out.

So he did it, he is the new Number 1!

How quickly things have changed.  When Wimbledon was starting, it was well understood that Djokovic would remain at #1 for at least another couple of years and that he would quite possibly win a grand slam this year.  And, just like that, Andy overtakes him before the year is done, without even having to win at the USO.

How long will Andy stay there?  It would seem that he is in pretty good shape through mid-2017.  Even if he were to lose the No 1 spot at WTF, one would have to think he has good odds of reclaiming it early in 2017.  Djokovic has an awful lot of points to defend, and none of the players behind Andy are all that close point-wise.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:49 pm

I agree summerblues.

It is also worth remembering that around two years ago he was on the operating table undergoing surgery to correct a back problem. Time out of the sport saw him slip down the rankings but he has hauled himself back up with big moments such as winning the Davis Cup, Wimbledon, many Masters titles and other tournaments to reach the No 1.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:51 pm

Fair chance that it will only be for two weeks. If Novak wins at the O2, he will be back atop the rankings for year end, even if Andy wins tomorrow. However, if he doesn't get top spot back then, Andy has a good chance to hold it certainly up to the clay season.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:54 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Fair chance that it will only be for two weeks. If Novak wins at the O2, he will be back atop the rankings for year end, even if Andy wins tomorrow. However, if he doesn't get top spot back then, Andy has a good chance to hold it certainly up to the clay season.

I think even socal (wherever he is) wouldn't be putting too much dosh on Novak to win the WTF in the form he is in at the moment.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:56 pm

Evidently, all is not well with Novak on and off court. Rumours are abound that he is about to terminate his partnership with Boris Becker. He was pushed on this matter at his presser yesterday and he never moved to deny it.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:57 pm

Well a bit of an anticlimax, but still a fabulous achievement by Murray clap clap clap

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Jermaine2015 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Embarrassing situation. Lose to Djokovic relentlessly and luck out when Djokovic gets injured.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:01 pm

Meanwhile, to my great surprise, the in-form Cilic has been comfortably beaten by Isner in the first semi. Did not expect that at all. Is this Isner's first Masters final?

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:03 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Meanwhile, to my great surprise, the in-form Cilic has been comfortably beaten by Isner in the first semi. Did not expect that at all. Is this Isner's first Masters final?

No he has been in a couple of Masters Finals when he lost to Federer and Nadal in 2012 and 2013.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:46 pm

Fair enough. It is the first time he's played Murray beyond the QF stage of any tournament. They've met 7 times before, 4 times in R16, twice QF and one DC rubber. Murray's won all seven of their previous meetings...

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Guest82 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:03 pm

Cilic was surprisingly clueless against Isner, considering he lead the head to head 6-0 before today too. Isner served well, but I thought Cilic was really poor.

Can't see Murray losing to Isner, he returns and defends far too well, even on a bad day.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:04 pm

Andy Murray leads Isner 6-3 2-2. Is Murray closing in on his fourth title in five weeks knitting together an unbeaten run of 20 matches?
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:12 pm

Isner playing very well today. He's not out of this yet.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:44 pm

Isner getting 80% first serves in, volleying like Edberg and firing monstrous groundies. I think he's favourite for the third now.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:30 pm

Well done Andy. Took his chance at the end and just got past an on-fire Isner.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:35 pm

Born Slippy wrote:Well done Andy. Took his chance at the end and just got past an on-fire Isner.

A hot Isner and lukewarm Murray.

Andy's 14th Masters title in the bag (three ahead of Sampras and three behind Agassi). Title No 43 and his third Masters title of the year.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:36 pm

7 of the 9 Masters trophies now in his collection - just Indian Wells and Monte Carlo missing.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:38 pm

Eight titles this year and has reached 11 of his last twelve tournament finals. Frightening stat.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by sirfredperry on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:54 pm

It seems that even outstanding performances (Berdych, Isner) can't derail Andy M at the moment.
Anyone worked out the year-end WTF points connotations yet, and what happens to Andy's DC points from last year?

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by lags72 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:56 pm

And yet another sizeable cheque to pay in to his bulging bank account tomorrow morning !

That makes around $11m this season - with the WTF still to come Wink

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:56 pm

sirfredperry wrote:It seems that even outstanding performances (Berdych, Isner) can't derail Andy M at the moment.
  Anyone worked out the year-end WTF points connotations yet, and what happens to Andy's DC points from last year?

His Davis Cup points come off after the WTF. Think it is something like 240 points that come off (something like that).
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Born Slippy on Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:59 pm

sirfredperry wrote:It seems that even outstanding performances (Berdych, Isner) can't derail Andy M at the moment.
  Anyone worked out the year-end WTF points connotations yet, and what happens to Andy's DC points from last year?
Basically if Novak does better than Andy he will be YE1.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:00 pm

The conitations for the rankings are awkward due to the ranking points handed out at them (200 points per round robin match win).

I think the easiest way to look at it is Novak returns to No 1 if he wins it (that is guaranteed). Aside from that Murray basically just needs to match or better Novak's results at the WTF to keep hold of No 1. However, the first few months of next year offers another golden chance to Murray even if things go pear-shaped at the 02.
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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:01 pm

Murray drops off 275 points from last year's DC points, so goes into the WTF effectively 130 points ahead of Djokovic. Basically Murray needs to match or better Djokovic's result there to finish YE n°1 (there's a slightly odd scenario that involves Djokovic winning a single group game but sneaking through to the semis, beating Murray there with Murray having won all three group games, and Djokovic then losing the final, which would see them both get 600 points, but it's unlikely).

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by lags72 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:09 pm

WTF will be contested fiercely with those points on the line. Novak will be very keen to end another year as Number One, if only for the record books.

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

Post by Jermaine2015 on Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:13 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Born Slippy wrote:Well done Andy. Took his chance at the end and just got past an on-fire Isner.

A hot Isner and lukewarm Murray.

Andy's 14th Masters title in the bag (three ahead of Sampras and three behind Agassi). Title No 43 and his third Masters title of the year.
Just the 14 majors for Sampras and 8 for Agassi...

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Re: Race to London - Basel, Vienna, Paris

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