How will England evolve before they next play New Zealand?

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England next play NZ in the autumn of 2018. We can be confident that they will be ranked 2 and 1 in the world, but England will have home advantage. I expect this will be one of the most hyped games in the history of rugby. But how will England change between now and then? Obviously there will be injuries, loss of form, players coming from nowhere, etc, but here are some things I expect:

- England will get a lot better. We are still a young and inexperienced side, and I would have thought we would naturally get about 20% better over this timescale.
- Elliot Daly will be fullback. Mike Brown has been a great servant but is in decline, and Daly is a wonderful footballer. I think this might be Daly's long-term position for England.
- Jamie George will be hooker, Luke Cowan-Dickie will be the 'finisher' on the bench, and Itoje will be Captain. Hartley has been lucky in terms of not missing internationals, when he eventually does I think the case for change will be clear.
- Underhill will be in the matchday squad, and will quite possibly be the starting 7. England have some fantastic backrows at age-group level, but Underhill will come into contention before them and he may be able to push past Haskell. I think Robshaw will still be the starting 6 at this point.

What does everyone else think?

It's pretty much pointless discussing combinations until we know the make-up of the Lions squad, we have no real idea of who will be available to tour.

Even if George does tour over Hartley, I don't think this necessarily means he's held in higher regard. He won't be the starting Lions hooker, without question, so it goes comes down to who is the better sub....that's George.

I wonder if Eddie will have any choice about tinkering with his back-row. What's the situation with Robshaw? Will he be fit? He's still got a shot of going with the Lions if he is.

I've heard some concerning things about Haskell's long term injury status too. He has been playing with an injured foot for ages and he had some pretty bad back problems against Leinster (So I heard).

So you've got Billy, Haskell, Itoje and Robshaw potentially out/ elsewhere. That leaves Wood and Hughes of the established players who are 'fully' fit. I know it is unfair but I'm not sure I'd take Wood. He's been a good servant, but he has shown an inability to go up another level and at 30 I don't think he can or will in the future.

Nobody wants to devalue the tour or go down to South America and get pumped, but I am beginning to wonder if this tour should be a free pass for Eddie to try new people out. Our established flankers are getting on (Robshaw almost 31, Wood 30 and Haskell 32) and have been beaten time and again when the screw really gets turned.

We are yet to see any clear (or anything close to clear!) successors and I wonder how many opportunities are going to present themselves like this? End of year internationals? People want consistency and will say no there. The 6N 2018? Seems unlikely to me. The 2018 Mid year internationals? We're due a tour to S.A. in June 2018 I believe, so not going to happen then.

In terms of the Lions, I think cascough is right in terms of the initial squad: whilst you could make a case for four England locks going to NZ, the likelihood is that only two will go- Launchbury top of the list, and Itoje close behind, in my opinion. The competition in almost every position is so great from all four nations that it's almost impossible for one nation to dominate the composite squad, unless that's what Gatland wants, which may well happen, for continuity's sake.

However, where I think England will 'suffer' is after that initial touring squad is named; as the domestic season comes to a close, and the Tour proper begins. Players will start dropping, if not quite like flies, in far greater numbers than they have at this point: to my mind, no-one has been ruled out of the Tour due to injury (could be wrong here, AWJ is the most notable, feel like I'm forgetting someone though, possibly Irish?).

It's to England that Gatland will turn his attentions once he needs squad filler/injury replacements. A lot is said about his preference for a certain type of physicality in a player, but rather than that being a bias towards Welsh players, England is by far the best placed of the four countries to produce that kind of player to the Lions, particularly up front.

This is what will be frustrating for Eddie Jones, as in the lead up to the Argentina tour- and even during it- he will see players siphoned off by the Lions, disproportionate to the other thre nations. It makes his job a hard one.

The only saving grace to this is the fact that the Welsh tour to the Pacific Islands was made very much with the Lions Tour in mind. If the Lions need a lock to sit on the bench in one of the midweek games on short notice, it's likely you could see Luke Charteris pulled in to cover. However, if it's earlier in the Tour, or if they have a little more time to get that player up to speed, I think you'll se Lawes or Kruis etc. drafted in, and that goes across most positions. England's strength in depth will be a boost to the Lions' squad, but a hindrance to stability for their Argentina tour, and I'm sure Eddie Jones will be preparing for this by considering as many players as possible to fill what could become quite a large void in English rugby left by Lions call ups.

Sgt Pooly injuries happen. We'll see who is fit.

miaow I don't think it really matters to England if players are drafted to the Lions as replacements because it will create opportunities.

It's not enough to have 2 players in each position you need 3 now.

This could be a tour for the likes of Robson,Lozowski,Genge,Sinckler,Taylor and try out some more options in the backrow.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's pretty much pointless discussing combinations until we know the make-up of the Lions squad, we have no real idea of who will be available to tour.

Even if George does tour over Hartley, I don't think this necessarily means he's held in higher regard. He won't be the starting Lions hooker, without question, so it goes comes down to who is the better sub....that's George.  

The sad thing is, I have more interest in the England tour to Argentina than I do the Lions to NZ.

So im just playing with a few names. Hypothesising

But its not pointless wondering if Jones will use this as a senior first choice (who is available) or if he'll use it more of a remainder of EPS / Saxons tour.
And judging by potential call ups, injuries etc...he might have no choice.

I agree with Cumbrian...wouldn't have Wood any where near this tour now. Need to move on from him...

Chance for Mark Wilson perhaps Geordiefalcon?

With Harrison no longer seemingly first choice 7 at Saints is a recall for Calum Clark possible? Thought Clark was one of the better Saints players vs Leicester but still unsure if he's international class.

Now personally I was unimpressed with Clark's debut in the RWC 2015 warm ups but there aren't too many obvious backrow options around.

I guess there is Clifford but then again he hasn't kicked on either.

Ah I doubt it mate. Ive sang his praises because I do think Mark is a quality player, but I don't think this is the tour for him. There are younger players who probably will be better served going to Argentina

And I don't think Clark deserves a recall either, Maybe next year if he's pulling up trees for Saracens...which could well happen as I think he'll fit in perfectly with them.

Options who Eddie will look at:
Robshaw wont go to NZ - if fit he'll go to Argen.
Hughes - Starting 8.
Underhill - Will tour
Clifford - Will tour but needs BIG performances.
Chisholm could very well tour. He's the abrasive style Jones likes.
Fearns Is an option.
Williams at Leiecester to play the bruising 7 role.

Kvesic? Doubtful. Doesn't seem to appear on Jones vision.

I can't really see the clamor for Fearns tbh. He was a decent flanker prior to leaving, although with limitations. I tend to think players sometime get rated higher when we don't see them week in week out.

Isn't Williams currently benching for Leicester?

Fearns and Underhill aren't playing in England currently.

Chisholm - is he playing well enough?

I think Robshaw might well tour in NZ even if it's as a injury replacement.

Fearns has by all accounts been hugely impressive in his stint abroad Sgt. Just the reviews coming back. May be wrong..? If those are correct then he's exactly the kind of player Jones likes in the back row.

Williams is benching but club form doesn't seem to bother Jones...he's in the EPS. So he'll more than likely travel.

Chisholm, well he's a youngster who has huge promise and is a physical style. Similar to Saracens Conlon. Could he travel?

I'm always a bit dubious of these glowing reports GF, I've seen nothing of him so can't really comment.

Hasn't Fearns pulled out of the Gloucester contract to stay with Lyon? He'll be ineligible if so. Underhill has committed to play back in England next season, so I assume he should be good to go to Argentina.

Conlon isn't starting for Saracens. Also I am not sure he's big enough.

True club form doesn't seem to matter to Jones but he was seen at Saracens vs Bath game so he must be looking at something.

Problem about promise isn't it doesn't always come to fruition.

Quite a few players I'd hope would have broken through with potential but not happening yet.

Now I know we can't expect everyone to develop at the same pace but England could do with someone stepping up at 15 and 7 in particular!

Now maybe Underhill is indeed good enough, I certainly hope so. Not sure being stuck behind Louw will help but we'll see.

I think Underhill is a banker to travel.

Yeah lots of if's and buts.

Back row needs looking at definitely.

What about Haley for FB?

I'd take him Geordie, even assuming that Daly becomes the starting fullback (I'm not going into that again ) there is going to need to be back up. We have very little depth there at the moment (unless you count Watson as being fullback). Brown has been an ever present but I reckon he has a year left at the most.

Mind you, I reckon Jason Woodward will come into the conversation at some point (not that I agree).

Not watched the bath game yet but Watson was being played at full back again with homer moving to wing wasn't he?

beshocked wrote:Sgt Pooly injuries happen. We'll see who is fit.

miaow I don't think it really matters to England if players are drafted to the Lions as replacements because it will create opportunities.

This is true, but I'm sure it's a logistical nightmare and unsettling to Eddie Jones to have players taken away from him after they've been called into the England squad, only to then have to find a replacement himself who is going to have suffered by not receiving the same training/coaching opportunities that the other, no absent, player had before being called up by the Lions.

The way around this is by training with an extended squad for as long as possible whilst still in England, so that those who are called up to Argentina won't be coming in completely cold. Of course, all nations have to deal with this, but I think England will be disproportionately hit due to their player depth.

I agree with beshocked that however many English players get called up for the Lions/are on the reserve list, England have so many players that it is a great opportunity for EJ to look at some of the more fringe/up and coming players.

Looking at the last England team to tour Argentina in a Lions year, the team in 2013 was captained by Tom Wood, with the likes of Billy V, Joe Marler and Joe Launchbury getting their opportunity.  There were also quite a few other names who have well and truly disappeared from the international scene.

I think it is too early to dismiss the likes of Clifford and Harrison - this could be a real opportunity for them to put down some roots and start to establish themselves as international players, alongside the likes of Wood and Hughes.  This will also be a development opportunity for Argentina so I would not expect many of the 1st choice team to be selected.  I think it would do Haskell and probably Robshaw good to have the summer off if not with the Lions to help prolong their careers at the top level through to the next world cup.  I would rather that young players like Clifford, Harrison and Underhill have some experience like Wood alongside them, even though I don't see him as being one of the players to make it to the world cup.  Likewise with Brown, Care and one or two others who may not make it to the next world cup.  Taking a squad made up of youngsters isn't likely to do any of them any good - Argentina is a tough, physical place to go to, no matter what the standard of rugby is and you need some hardened international players to hold the team together.

NLp

Interesting you would definitely take Wood. I just don't see the requirement. I don't think in his case, his experience warrants selection over a young player.

Clifford and Harrison have a lot to prove at this level already IMO. They need a MASSIVE tour to really push for their place long term. I know that sounds harsh when they are still so young...but with so much competition coming through you simply cant rest on your laurels. They MUST perform.

So is it safe to say Lozwoski will be starting 10 on the Argentina tour?

Or will Ford not go to NZ either?

Geordiefalcon don't forget there is still Slade though I don't know whether he sees him as a 10 or centre.

GeordieFalcon wrote:NLp

Interesting you would definitely take Wood. I just don't see the requirement. I don't think in his case, his experience warrants selection over a young player.

Clifford and Harrison have a lot to prove at this level already IMO. They need a MASSIVE tour to really push for their place long term. I know that sounds harsh when they are still so young...but with so much competition coming through you simply cant rest on your laurels. They MUST perform.

I think that Tom Wood has shown that this simply isn't the case. It would be ideal if these fringe players were playing out of their skins and hammering on the selection door, but it's slightly unrealistic. How many teams can boast a matchday 23 that is performing excellently AND the backups/fringe players performing to a similar level?

If these players want to be first choice then I agree that they need to show more than they have to date. However, if they go on tour and simply don't get outclassed, the chances are they will remain around the squad and at some stage through other's injury or lack of form, they will get an opportunity.

Cascough, We'll have to agree to disagree over Wood.

Beshocked,
Yes I forgot about Slade. Be interesting to see who Jones decides to go with.

Perhaps my post was slightly misleading. I'm not really extolling the virtues of Tom Wood, or any individual for that matter. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that the fringe players need a massive tour to stay in contention. I think a steady tour will see them remain in and around the squad.

Bear in mind that the Training Squad = the best available bunch of players for the current series of matches, whereas the EPS = the players whose development Eddie is actively monitoring and influencing.

The January EPS looks like this:

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks),
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby),
Jack Clifford (Harlequins),
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers),
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs),
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby),
Jamie George (Saracens),
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints),
James Haskell (Wasps),
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints),
Nathan Hughes (Wasps),
Maro Itoje (Saracens),
Sam Jones (Wasps),
George Kruis (Saracens),
Joe Launchbury (Wasps),
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints),
Joe Marler (Harlequins),
Matt Mullan (Wasps),
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins),
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins),
Tommy Taylor (Wasps),
Billy Vunipola (Saracens),
Mako Vunipola (Saracens),
Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers),
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins),
Danny Care (Harlequins),
Elliot Daly (Wasps),
Owen Farrell (Saracens),
George Ford (Bath Rugby),
Mike Haley (Sale Sharks),
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby),
Alex Lozowski (Saracens),
Joe Marchant (Harlequins),
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby),
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs),
Dan Robson (Wasps),
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby),
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs),
Ben Spencer (Saracens),
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors),
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers),
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby),
Marland Yarde (Harlequins),
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Taking a stab at the Lions tourists in bold (with the possible addition of Robshaw and changes in the locks and wings), that leaves 30 in the squad to tour Argentina, and he will probably need 7 or 8 more, mostly in the pack. Underhill and Chisholm look likely to me, plus some additional props and locks.

cascough wrote:Perhaps my post was slightly misleading. I'm not really extolling the virtues of Tom Wood, or any individual for that matter. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that the fringe players need a massive tour to stay in contention. I think a steady tour will see them remain in and around the squad.

Ah my apologies.

Well im not sure, the likes of Harrison has not met the challenges set to him so far on the international stage. Should he have a below par trip to a weakened Argentina side, I think he will find himself out of contention for quite a long time.

Poorfour,

Probably the most sensible post....

GeordieFalcon wrote:Poorfour,

Probably the most sensible post....

That's no guarantee of audience reaction on here!

I'm kind of with cascough on what the tour means for various tyros. Eddie will have certain things he asks for from each of his players. Those who deliver stay in immediate contention. Those who don't get sent back to their clubs to work on them. If they're close enough to be in contention they'll stay in the EPS, if not they may drop out.

But I think this year has shown that no-one is ever completely discarded. If a player like Wood can come up the pecking order, albeit with a little injury assistance. After Harrison's early bath in Australia, Eddie said something along the lines of "Perhaps he just can't do what we were asking of him at this stage in his career" - those last 6 words are the telling ones for me. Go away and develop in the ways he asks, and you're in the running when a shirt becomes available.

Oh im not disputing that players will develop at different rates , im fully aware they do, and im also not suggesting that youngsters should come in and be world class immediately!

Im just concerned that a few of the "pretenders" shall we say haven't really shown up in any environment that would suggest they're clicking at international level.

And I just think a couple may find themselves out of contention for quite a while, IF they cant show any signs on the trip to Argentina. And I do include Clifford and Harrison as two main concerns.

Hopefully im proved completely wrong and after the summer im saluting an all round explosive tour performance from Harrison and a quality, pacy attacking  tour from Clifford.

Of course a lot depends upon who tours NZ, but depth could really be stretched.

Props: Should Mako and Marler travel, then Mullan and Genge are probably in the box seat (having been part of 6Ns training squads) with Catt available if 3 needed. At TH things are more threadbare. Sinkler will go and start the games, but who else? Hill is favoured by England, but not Saints. Brookes seems to be well away from EJ's thoughts and there is really no-one else available even close to contention.

Hooker: Depends on if either or both our ^Ns hookers travel with teh Lions. Taylor and LCD would be first names on the list, but if a 3rd hooker was needed where would England look?

Second Row: Such a strong position for the Lions that I can only see two of our locks travelling, add Ewels in teh mix and we need a 4th guy here.

Back Row: Hughes, Haskell and Robshaw likely to be available and will then travel. This experience for me precludes any need to select Tom Wood. Amongst the rest, Underhill a clear possibility, along with the plethora of guys who have had some involvement around the squad this year (Beaumont, Clifford, Harrison, Jones, Williams). With names such as Chisholm and Mercer also being mentioned there is plenty of choice, but mostly callow behind the experience of Robshaw and Haskell.


Half-Backs: Farrell will go to NZ, but not convinced any of the others will head that way. Care and Lozowski will go to Argentina, and then it depends if Youngs and Ford are available. Despite shocking performances against Leinster, Robson and Cipriani probably head a not especially long list of candidates.

Centres: My gut feel is that JJ and Daly will tour with the Lions. England therefore coudl be looking at taking Slade and Te'o as teh starting centres, but then scrabbling desperately for backups.

Back 3: Plenty of options on the wing, less at FB.

Clifford has already been man of the match. Then thrown into a back line with Itoje and Hughes none of which played well. Of course there's always the pressure of the next guy coming through but he's shown enough so far for me.

Showing a bias but would Don Armand be considered for the tour, probably the first name on the team sheet for Exeter

I'd be shocked if Cipriani gets into the England squad even if both Ford and Farrell are with the Lions.

Will be interesting to see what Jones does.

Goode could obviously come back into contention at 15, despite not being popular on here, he's popular with a lot of ex and current players. With a lack of clear 15 options his name inevitably comes up.

Especially with no passing Brown yet again not having the best 6 nations.

Denny Solomona will likely tour on the wing.

Wouldn't surprise me if Jones picks Mallinder and Tompkins as centre options.

Not as if England have dozens of centre options if Joseph and Farrell tour with the Lions.

I also hope he has a look at Malinder, as well as Slade.

As to the forwards, Genge does look like the future, but I'd also like to see another Tiger have an opportunity....I think Dom Barrow has performed well in a difficult circumstances. Ofcourse he's another 2nd row but if we do lose a couple to the Lions then there should a seat on the plane.

What's the deal with Manu?

Gwlad wrote:What's the deal with Manu?

Out for the season.

king_carlos wrote:

Gwlad wrote:What's the deal with Manu?

Out for the season.

Really what now? Thought he'd come back and dropped weight? Still his groin?

1.Genge, Mullan
2.Taylor, Cowan-Dickie
3.Sinckler, Hill
4.Ewels, Barrow
5.Kruis, Beaumont
6.Robshaw, Clifford
7.Haskell, Underhill
8.Hughes

9.Care, Robson
10.Lozowski, Cipriani

11.Nowell, May
12.Te'o, Slade
13.Marchant, Tompkins
14.Wade, Rokoduguni
15.Brown, Haley

That squad should be available even if all of the following end up with the Lions either in the squad or as injury call ups (of which there will be many): Mako, Marler, Hartley, George, Cole, Itoje, Lawes, Launchbury, Billy, Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Joseph, Daly, Watson

Centre is hit hardest I'd say. The front row will be missing key players whoever ends up with the Lions, there is a lot of young guys with a lot of talent waiting there though. Back row and back three should still be strong. If Kruis is available to go to Argentina then he'd be my bet for captain.

Gwlad wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Gwlad wrote:What's the deal with Manu?

Out for the season.

Really what now? Thought he'd come back and dropped weight? Still his groin?

Knee this time, ACL.

Yep he'd come back and had dropped weight. He was easing in with managed game time but he still looked powerful and was starting to look sharper. Then he took a blow to the knee which is going to need 6 month rehab.

king_carlos wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

Gwlad wrote:What's the deal with Manu?

Out for the season.

Really what now? Thought he'd come back and dropped weight? Still his groin?

Knee this time, ACL.

Yep he'd come back and had dropped weight. He was easing in with managed game time but he still looked powerful and was starting to look sharper. Then he took a blow to the knee which is going to need 6 month rehab.

Feck

The guy is only 25 though so could be around for another Lions cycle. Seems pretty fragile though for a lump of concrete

He's like the Gavin henson of English rugby and you wonder if he will ever fulfill his potential

The challenge that crocked him would have done for anyone. Hit by 3 Sarries at the same time, one high, one midriff and one low. Nowhere for his body to go other than snap.

I reckon Kruis might tour with the Lions with Borthwick as a coach. Probably has mores chance than Lawes and possibly Launchbury as well.

I hope Kruis goes but i wouldn't drop Launchbury.
I think Gray, Launchbury, AWJ, Itoje and Kruis is a cracking selection

Will Kruis and Robshaw have recovered from their injuries? What stage are they on the recovery road at the moment?

Ill be amazed if Kruis goes to NZ. Even though hes a top quality lock. That's one position the lions are blessed with. So they wont need to pick someone whos got question marks over their fitness.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Kruis and Robshaw have recovered from their injuries? What stage are they on the recovery road at the moment?

Ill be amazed if Kruis goes to NZ. Even though hes a top quality lock. That's one position the lions are blessed with. So they wont need to pick someone whos got question marks over their fitness.

Without turning it into a Lions debate, I think Kruis is on track for the Munster game. Gatland could pick him with an asterisk and replace him before the tour if he wanted, I just think with Borthwick in the coaching set-up, Kruis' chances increase. Gwlad's selection is similar to what I think we may see, although I do like Henderson as well.

Robshaw played 80 against Newcastle, so he's getting minutes under his belt at the moment. Although he's further along his recovery, I think he faces more competition than Kruis does at lock (Stander, O'Mahony, Warburton, Tipuric, Watson, Vunipola and Faletau gives you minimum 2 in each position, Warburton able to play on either flank and Stander able to cover 8), so he's probably a little further away from selection.

If Robshaw's timing was better and he'd come back for the last game of the Six Nations and pulled an O'Mahony, I'm sure we'd all be talking about him being on the plane and a dark horse for a test spot. With only league games against Sarries and Exeter, Robshaw doesn't have the biggest stage to prove himself, but will give it everything he can. I expect he'll have to settle for a place on the reserve list.

I'd question whether we'd want to take Robshaw on tour to Argentina, or give him a rest. I'd be inclined to rest him, although I'm sure he'd rather go and stay fit in case Gatland needs to call someone up.

On KC's squad.  If only 6 front row players are taken, then a single injury means the match cannot take.

I presume there will be a need for at least 8 or 9.

So perhaps Brooks at TH, but who for the other spots?

robbo277 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Will Kruis and Robshaw have recovered from their injuries? What stage are they on the recovery road at the moment?

Ill be amazed if Kruis goes to NZ. Even though hes a top quality lock. That's one position the lions are blessed with. So they wont need to pick someone whos got question marks over their fitness.

Without turning it into a Lions debate, I think Kruis is on track for the Munster game. Gatland could pick him with an asterisk and replace him before the tour if he wanted, I just think with Borthwick in the coaching set-up, Kruis' chances increase. Gwlad's selection is similar to what I think we may see, although I do like Henderson as well.

Robshaw played 80 against Newcastle, so he's getting minutes under his belt at the moment. Although he's further along his recovery, I think he faces more competition than Kruis does at lock (Stander, O'Mahony, Warburton, Tipuric, Watson, Vunipola and Faletau gives you minimum 2 in each position, Warburton able to play on either flank and Stander able to cover 8), so he's probably a little further away from selection.

If Robshaw's timing was better and he'd come back for the last game of the Six Nations and pulled an O'Mahony, I'm sure we'd all be talking about him being on the plane and a dark horse for a test spot. With only league games against Sarries and Exeter, Robshaw doesn't have the biggest stage to prove himself, but will give it everything he can. I expect he'll have to settle for a place on the reserve list.

I'd question whether we'd want to take Robshaw on tour to Argentina, or give him a rest. I'd be inclined to rest him, although I'm sure he'd rather go and stay fit in case Gatland needs to call someone up.

At least its against the two strong sides in the league.

cb wrote:On KC's squad.  If only 6 front row players are taken, then a single injury means the match cannot take.

I presume there will be a need for at least 8 or 9.

So perhaps Brooks at TH, but who for the other spots?

You'd say you need at least an extra hooker and an extra prop, if not 2. Nathan Catt has been in and about the squad so could go as LH cover. No idea who our 5th choice hooker is. A recall for Youngs? Thacker? McGuigan got a Saxons call last year.

Haywood and Waller? Hooker and LH?