The End of the AI's?

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The End of the AI's?

Post by yappysnap on Mon 24 Sep 2018, 3:15 am

First topic message reminder :

World Rugby are looking at ending the AI's after this year, and in its place running a 12 team comp that alternates between NH and SH locations.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12130530

Sounds odd to me

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:11 pm

Doctor7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:On your point. What have the SH done for us for decades? Given us games that not only give them money but also fill our stadiums, such was the quality of their rugby and the feverish desire of many NH sides to do what was quite often seen as the impossible, win one or two games against them.

I have never seen any of the home nations have empty stadiums when they play each other, they also sell a lot of tickets for the so called lesser nations as well. I think we could manage without the 3 from the SH.

I'd be gutted personally. I love the extra colour and rivalry from the olde SH boys. They are struggling now with less populations and their great and potentially great players being lured away to big money offers from clubs in Europe. I don't know why so much bad blood directed at them in terms of them trying to survive as International entities at the highest levels. They've entertained us for decades (usually at our expense of course) - but this new kinda 'feck them!' attitude from NH observers...... well, I'd miss them plenty

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:14 pm

Doctor7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:You want to become a Red Bar Soldier?? So soon after joining up?

No, I just wanted to know about them thats all. Also, I am experimenting with this quoting, so please bare with me. OK

SecretFly wrote:Oh well.................................... you see that plus and minus thing beside your name? Press the plus to give a comment a green light. Press the minus to get the red bar going.

Unfortunately I do not have that option, do you have to apply for it or something ?

SecretFly wrote:Please don't become a Red Bar Soldier. This site is pretty good, there are only a few isolated Red Bar addicts here.

Ah, that is what you call them on here. OK. I do not want to be one of those, I take it red is dislike, green is like ?

I have noticed LordDowlais get's a few. I do not know what for though, some of his posts are not even directed at anybody, but he still gets them, he must have a few enemies on here.

I have noticed he gets a few red bars whenever that riscagame member is about, is he one of those soldiers ?

I’ve got Dowlais on foe actually, so it’s unlikely I would go to the effort of opening his posts up to read them. I see you’re both online at a similar time again though. Some might say that’s suspicious, especially with your current posting history.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Biltong on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:17 pm

If you ask me international rugby's role is only going to become smaller.

Club/franchise/provincial rugby tournaments are taking over the rugby calendar with an ever reducing international window.

Soon we will have the RC, the six nations and the RWC, nothing else.

WR in my opinion is losing ground.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:23 pm

Biltong wrote:If you ask me international rugby's role is only going to become smaller.

Club/franchise/provincial rugby tournaments are taking over the rugby calendar with an ever reducing international window.

Soon we will have the RC, the six nations and the RWC, nothing else.

WR in my opinion is losing ground.


... or becoming complicit in its own demise?

Loadsa money in Club rugby.... nice investment potentials if a bigger slice of the year was given over to nice new World clashes of SUPER SUPER clubs. Who would walk away from that mucho bucks potential if you had the power to help manufacture it?

I could give an example of a Union man putting up some very weak resistance to the wishes of Club rugby and then walking into a big club rugby job months later...........................

Curiosity is certainly an emotion that rises to the surface on such occasions.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:25 pm

Ian Ritchie?

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:28 pm

..................... I don't name names...but yes, Ian Ritchie. Whistle

Do I publically accuse him of unethical shenanigans? No. But I remain curious about the chain of events both before, during and after that epic time of European upheavals.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:31 pm

Aye, feels a bit dodgy - even if the salary to be Chairman of PRL is a fair way below that he received as CEO of the RFU. Quite a nice "retirement" job being paid more for one day a week than most of us get for a full week.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Biltong on Mon 15 Oct 2018, 12:43 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Biltong wrote:If you ask me international rugby's role is only going to become smaller.

Club/franchise/provincial rugby tournaments are taking over the rugby calendar with an ever reducing international window.

Soon we will have the RC, the six nations and the RWC, nothing else.

WR in my opinion is losing ground.


... or becoming complicit in its own demise?

Loadsa money in Club rugby.... nice investment potentials if a bigger slice of the year was given over to nice new World clashes of  SUPER SUPER clubs.  Who would walk away from that mucho bucks potential if you had the power to help manufacture it?

I could give an example of a Union man putting up some very weak resistance to the wishes of Club rugby and then walking into a big club rugby job months later...........................

Curiosity is certainly an emotion that rises to the surface on such occasions.

Yeah people supposedly doing it for the best interest of the sport whilst everyone understands the reality of promoting self interest
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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Irish Londoner on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 8:57 am

Thing is Biltong, I don't see where the money for the clubs is coming from.
The French owners are chucking money in as a vanity project (a bit like local businessmen used to do in football before the Premier League TV money flooded in), they're not going to see any of it back.
Only one of the English clubs make money and they all depend on revenue from the RFU i.e. the international game to actually survive.
The NH TV deals are about as maxed out as they can be already - indeed both the PRO12 and Jeff are having to put live games on free to air to remind the public that rugby is still a thing - even the HEC is on FTA.
The SH don't have the populations or money to go much further than they are - the sport may expand a bit in Japan post RWC 19, but it'll be similar to the MLS in America, a developing ground for local players and a lucrative retirement home for Tier 1 pros.
The PRO12 sides are holding their own but that's about it.
Given all the above where is the opportunity to turn the current system into a money making circus like the Premier League or La Liga ?

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by SecretFly on Tue 16 Oct 2018, 10:19 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
Given all the above where is the opportunity to turn the current system into a money making circus like the Premier League or La Liga ?

By joining up all strands under a common World umbrella and marketing a product that has one main operator (new world Club body to be sure to be sure; don't you know, don't you know; nod, nod, wink, wink) organising everything, from calendars to broadcasters etc.

Now you might say club rugby ISN'T making massive profits around the world, and that might be true....but for a fact, people involved in the administrative side and broadcasting execs ARE making much more money out of rugby union than 10 years ago, than 20 years ago.  It's all about personal decisions on investments and such and many of those too will be long-term prospects, taking into account potential for growth and profit rather than looking at present conditions.  

And if you also happen to be responsible for creating the rules and conditions around potential growth then of course the present is a lovely place to be with all the jostling for position and all the talk of 'changes needed to help players and the game'.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Pie on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 4:12 am

Biltong wrote:If you ask me international rugby's role is only going to become smaller.

Club/franchise/provincial rugby tournaments are taking over the rugby calendar with an ever reducing international window.

Soon we will have the RC, the six nations and the RWC, nothing else.

WR in my opinion is losing ground.


Makes sense and I think that would be just right, but i'm afraid the Unions would never go for that when they can make a fortune in the autumn. You hear all the chat about player welfare but the truth is its a gravy train of corporate proportions with a steady flow of new blood who want to put on their jersey so the old farts can get fatter. A bit like WW1.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Irish Londoner on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 8:27 am

I still don't see it, the six nations is scrabbling for a sponsor, ERC after all the hype of multiple sponsors and increased revenues having destroyed the original competition have come back to Heiniken with their tails between their legs, the PRO12 have gone back to Guinness, you buy the naming rights to the English championship for a few grand, etc.
I'm not convinced that TV is even making money out of rugby (at least at club level) with the current multi platform set up, England on BT, PRO14 on Premier, Top 14 on Sky apart from people who are already rugby fans no one is going to pay three separate subscriptions.

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Re: The End of the AI's?

Post by Brendan on Wed 17 Oct 2018, 10:39 am

I wouldn't say that Club Rugby isn't making money in the NH just that their expenses are much higher than they should be.

Lions CEO said if SA clubs got access to the European cups Super Rugby would become irrelevant and they wouldn't be able to pass up the money.  This is as much about the abject failure of Super Rugby coming home to roost than the money being generated in Europe.  Super Rugby continues to fall while European Rugby seem to be becoming better and better.

The Fees that the AB charge which is way and above is also another bad choice coming home to roost. Italy v Ireland and Wales v Scotland tells you all you need to know about NH view on international rugby, they would rather play themselves than play others for fees.

When the poorest team in NH can pay as much as the top SH teams for player wages there is a problem and will end with the SH losing control of their players.  One solution is to have their domestic league (Conference games) and then do groups for the remaining games similar to H Cup. Might help them with money and secure better home support.  Until Super Rugby improves finances it will be the drain around those Unions neck.  The Pro14 is very active in improving its return and are starting to have it be less of a weight.

This league is more likely to drag the Pro14 unions down to the SH level rather than the other way.  Also just like Europe lost a qualification because Georgia auto qualified for the WC. Europe again loses out if it is 6 v 6 as either Italy or Georgia miss out

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