Edinburgh V Cheetahs

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Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 12:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has made four changes ahead of tomorrow night’s Guinness PRO14 clash with Toyota Cheetahs at BT Murrayfield (Friday 5 October, kick-off 7.35pm).

As Edinburgh look to secure their fifth consecutive home victory in all competitions, three players are rotated into the backline. James Johnstone and Juan Pablo Socino are named in the midfield, while winger Darcy Graham makes his first start since featuring against Leinster in February.

Cockerill makes just one change to the pack as Rory Sutherland makes his first start of the season at loosehead prop.

On his selection, Cockerill, said: “We’ve named a strong, combative side who'll be looking to make amends following last weekend’s disappointing performance against Benetton.

“Whilst we were happy with the result and certain aspects of our play, the squad know that there is plenty to improve on if we’re going to challenge in the league.

“Cheetahs are a physical, abrasive outfit with quick backs out wide that’ll punish you throughout the 80 minutes. However, we’ve got plenty of belief, especially at home, and I’ve got every confidence that this group of players can bounce back tomorrow night.”

After crossing the whitewash against Benetton a week ago, Blair Kinghorn is named at fullback, with Duhan van der Merwe – a try-scorer in his last four appearances at BT Murrayfield – and Graham selected on the flanks.

Johnstone and summer recruit Socino get the nod in midfield, while Henry Pyrgos and Kiwi stand-off Simon Hickey continue at half-back.

Up-front, hooker Stuart McInally skippers the side and packs down alongside WP Nel and Sutherland.

Experienced locks Grant Gilchrist and Ben Toolis are named in the boiler room, while Magnus Bradbury, Hamish Watson and Fijian international Bill Mata complete the back-row.



Edinburgh team to face Cheetahs at BT Murrayfield in the Guinness PRO14 on Friday 5 October, kick-off 7.35pm – live on Free Sports.





15. Blair Kinghorn (68)



14. Darcy Graham (6)

13. James Johnstone (22)

12. Juan Pablo Socino (3)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (22)



10. Simon Hickey (4)

9. Henry Pyrgos (4)



1. Rory Sutherland (64)

2. Stuart McInally (124) CAPTAIN

3. WP Nel (119)

4. Ben Toolis (93)

5. Grant Gilchrist (124)

6. Magnus Bradbury (56)

7. Hamish Watson (85)

8. Bill Mata (40)



Replacements: 16. Ross Ford (182); 17. Murray McCallum (42); 18. Simon Berghan (52); 19. Luke Hamilton (4); 20. Jamie Ritchie (53); 21. Sean Kennedy (63); 22. Jaco van der Walt (20); 23. Chris Dean (68).

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 8:58 pm

See!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 8:58 pm

I'd really hate to have to defend a number 8 pick-up by Mata. Good try, and a much better scrum with Sutherland off.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 8:59 pm

Try for Mata off the base of a scrum, 30-21. Hickey kicking well

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:02 pm

Nothing wrong with the Cheetahs handling.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:04 pm

Bradbury is finishing strongly.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:09 pm

Give the cheetahs the ball for long enough and they’ll make a mistake. We could really do with getting away from our own 22 though. Mata for Hamilton, bit of a step down in quality!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:10 pm

Huge scrum!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:10 pm

The scrum is transformed. Great impact from Berghan. Let's get that bonus point.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:12 pm

Put this in the corner and drive it. Come on boys

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:12 pm

Looks like Ross Ford will have to come on. GET THE THROW RIGHT!!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:14 pm

That was one of the most clinical plays I've seen from an Edinburgh side. Text book.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:16 pm

Arg my internet dropped out and I missed it!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:17 pm

BP win!  Yahoo

The last 2 games have certainly been far from perfect but can't complain too much about 2 BP wins!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:18 pm

Good result, serious wobbles after half time are a worry but a definite improvement on last week.

Gilchrist played well, probably just for TJ.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:19 pm

Just a text book catch and drive. No fuss. Ritchie got the score.

When all is said and done, we're winning games with bonus points and still could be playing much better.

Glasgow win too. Good night for Scottish rugby.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:20 pm

Gilchrist and Toolis both put in a really good shift. Keeping the Gray brothers honest.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:21 pm

TJ wrote:I am placing a bet here that Gilcrest tops the penalty count with 3 one of which will lead to a cheeters try and one of which will either be yellow card or very lucky not to be.  He will also be anonymous on the feild.

feel free to quote me on this when he turns in an immaculate MOM performance  ;-)
What sauce to eat my hat with?

Fine performance from him.  Broke up a couple of mauls, did the dirty work.  Not one brainfart

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:23 pm

Graham also had an impressive game and offered a bit more spark than we’ve seen from Fife lately

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:27 pm

TJ wrote:
TJ wrote:I am placing a bet here that Gilcrest tops the penalty count with 3 one of which will lead to a cheeters try and one of which will either be yellow card or very lucky not to be.  He will also be anonymous on the feild.

feel free to quote me on this when he turns in an immaculate MOM performance  ;-)
What sauce to eat my hat with?

Fine performance from him.  Broke up a couple of mauls, did the dirty work.  Not one brainfart
clap

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:32 pm

Decent performance all round
Hickey really looks the part.  I love the way he always looks so calm and collected and not a turnstile in defence.  Its so nice to have a real no 10.
Graham played well.  Backrow very good.  Scrum stood up well.  Pyrgos decent with very good box kicks
Moment of the match for me was well into the second half Bill Mata caught a deep kicked ball with space to run and he set off with a huge grin on his face.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:34 pm

Honourable mention for that Cheetahs wing Maxwane.  He would grace any side in the pro 14

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:36 pm

Great win for Edinburgh.

Cockerill will not be happy with the 10 minutes after the first half. The 1st try will not concern him too much. From broken play the Cheetahs 11 (Maximi?) is rapid. VDM did well to stop him from being the try scorer. McInally missing the tackle for Max's 2nd try was not great.

The defensive line-out was excellent and the scrum was hit-or-miss. Sutherland had a good night in the loose and could not get his feet right in the scrum. On that performance, he can't play against top scrums. Much improved with McCallum on. Berghan looked good when he came on and Nel was fine. At what point do we discuss whether McCallum is best at loosehead or tighthead? The problem is with the 2 new Saffa looseheads eventually qualifying in the long run he is better at TH. In the short run, he may be the 2nd best SQ loosehead at the moment.

The back-row looked good. Bradbury and Mata were both excellent. Watson was the relative bystander. Mata got MOTM, but Bradbury ran him close.

Pyrgos needs to speed up at times. He managed the game well overall, but some of the speed from ruck was a version of Laidlaw at his worst. Hickey did well with it and the centres were average overall. Graham is electric with the ball in hand and was the pick of the backs. VDM and Kinghorn did not get many opportunities to shine. That may be the back 3 for Edinburgh going forward.

Overall, a patient and effective performance. Work is needed on the tempo with Pyrgos and on Sutherland's scrumming.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:38 pm

TJ wrote:Honourable mention for that Cheetahs wing Maxwane.  He would grace any side in the pro 14

Going by the Cheetahs previous track record he probably will be gracing another Pro 14 side next season

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 9:41 pm

Edinburgh up to 2nd with Scarlets got a game in hand. Really frustrating we didn't win against Ulster - they've been on a terrible run since, and have just lost to Connacht at home.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by BigGee on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 10:32 pm

Good win Edinburgh, sounds like they had to work hard for it.

Cockers said he thought D'Arcy Graham was the best Edinburgh player on the pitch! He clearly likes the small guy.

Looking forward to watching the game.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 10:53 pm

Mixed performance tonight. Pretty comfortable first half, mad 10-15 mins in the second & fairly comfortable end.

Graham really went out to prove me wrong, lot of positives from him. Came looking for work, aggressive with & without the ball & took his try well. Cockers post match reckoned he was our best player tonight & it was hard to argue with that.

Mata got motm and he was immense all night, as soon as he got the ball he had 3 players on him.

Scrum first half I'd say Edinburgh were dominant, 2nd half though, and I'm not sure if it was picked up on Tv, but the cheetahs TH started binding on sutherland's arm and on a number of occasions was pulling the Scrum down. Got away with it, so fair play.

Lineouts were grand, and our second rows did their jobs well.

Pyrgos is very slow, and I think overplayed the box kicks. I don't know if it was a tactical decision to slow the game down, but he really took his time.

Despite it being a perfect evening for rugby, there was an insane amount of handling errors & poor passes. No idea why it was so bad but a lot of mistakes.

Still not convinced by Socino.  Hickey is still tiny (it still astounds me), but seems to be a capable 10.

Overall the performance could & probably should have been a lot better, but a bonus point win is always good.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 9:26 am

Hickey is still tiny (it still astounds me),
Been looking at a few stats just for fun.  You know how I like a stat. Hickey is 5'9 George Horne is 5'9, Nick Grigg is 5'9. Duncan Weir is 5'8! Darcy Graham is 5'9  Hickey is 13 stone tho and Grigg 14.  Graham is under 12!

Are we on the way to a new paradigm - the midget backs that the orcs and trundle muppets cannot get hold of witout giving away a penalty for high tackles?

Can Hickey qualify for Scotland?  If so we could have a backline of
9 Horne, 10 Hickey, 11 Graham, 12 Grigg 15 Weir.  Just need another tiny winger and centre and there we go!

~Edited with more info

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 9:44 am

Or we could put Grieg Laidlaw in at 10 at 5'9 1/2, Hickey at 12 and Grigg at 13

Just need another tiny winger

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 3:29 pm

Just watched the game - a much improved Edinburgh performance but still a lot to work on to turn possession and territory dominance into a comfortable win. We're never going to be a team that beats opposition by 50+ points but as long as we get a BP that's all that matters really. That's 4 BPs in the last 6 games which is important given last season we struggled for BPs.

There was a much improved performance from the back 5 - I suspect Toolis and Gilchrist were given a rocket midweek as they put in huge performances. Gilchrist in particular was excellent, but Toolis had his best game in a while too. Bradbury was hugely physical - that's the kind of performance that will get him the Scotland 6 shirt, last week's was not. Watson was strangely quiet, but Mata was collosal. I really can't see us holding onto him next season, especially now he is in the Champions Cup window. If he could add offloading to his game he could be a top international class 8.

The backs did ok, although Pyrgos is beginning to make Laidlaw look like George Horne by comparison. There were a few times he completely slowed things down when we were well set up to attack - even led to the crowd booing box kicks! I also don't know why Cockerill refuses to sub him off when he's clearly fatigued.

Socino was better but still pretty average - he's very much just squad cover quality. JJ pretty quiet - neither really staked a claim to dislodge Scott and Dean but Cockerill's mind games will hopefully have its affect on those two.

Graham had a good game but i was actually slightly underwhelmed with him given the comments on here and what Cockerill said! He did look dangerous though and is very aggressive in contact for a wee man. I'd like to see him given a run of games - I said last week we need better variety in our backline and his pace and stepping certainly gives us that. He looked hungry for ball and had a great take in the air. Would love to see him running in open space.

One main frustration with the back 3 - there were several times we made great ground out wide but were easily shuffled into touch. The first rule of wing play is to ensure you don't end up in touch!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 5:08 pm

TJ wrote:Or we could put Grieg Laidlaw in at 10 at 5'9 1/2, Hickey at 12 and Grigg at 13

Just need another tiny winger

Hoyland at 5'10 could be the monster winger

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by EWT Spoons on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 5:18 pm

There is no way hickey is 5.9. I know his stats say that it can't be true

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 06 Oct 2018, 10:26 pm

Just realised Nadolo will be the likely left winger next week - will playing Graham on the right be a good idea??  Shocked

To be fair most wingers in the world struggle to contain him so can't imagine Dougie Fife would make much difference.

Need to get Tom Brown back in after his heroics against Naiyarovo a few years ago!

P.s. I'm pretty sure Graham is 5ft 7 based on his under 20 stats - there's no way he's 5ft 9! Unless he had a growth spurt at 20. He is an actual midget.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by tigertattie on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 11:53 am

TJ wrote:
Hickey is still tiny (it still astounds me),
Been looking at a few stats just for fun.  You know how I like a stat. Hickey is 5'9 George Horne is 5'9, Nick Grigg is 5'9. Duncan Weir is 5'8! Darcy Graham is 5'9  Hickey is 13 stone tho and Grigg 14.  Graham is under 12!

Are we on the way to a new paradigm - the midget backs that the orcs and trundle muppets cannot get hold of witout giving away a penalty for high tackles?

Can Hickey qualify for Scotland?  If so we could have a backline of
9 Horne, 10 Hickey, 11 Graham, 12 Grigg 15 Weir.  Just need another tiny winger and centre and there we go!

~Edited with more info

No no no noooo. If we did that the backs coach would be called Snow White
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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by BigGee on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 12:47 pm

Just watched the game, another real mixed bag from Edinburgh but they got the job done. Cheetahs are there own worst enemies and until they start to learn how to manage a game, they will keep om losing games they could be winning.

I thought Cockers was right about little D'Arcy though, had a terrific game. He just goes flying into contact, has no fear or self preservation gene at all. You do wonder about him getting injures though if he keeps on doing that against much bigger players, Nadolo for example. Mind you the only Glasgow player that seemed to be able to bring him down last year was Ali Price, so maybe going in low would be to his advantage.

Other than it was a workmanlike performance by the pack and a well managed game by the half backs. The front row did not really manage to impose it self until the subs came on, Nel and Sutherland don't quite seem up to speed yet, I guess it will take a few games.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by George Carlin on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 2:04 pm

Didn't manage to watch this but excellent result - just what we needed to build up a bit of momentum.
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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 6:09 pm

Surely a Scotland midget backline would be

9 Horne
10 Weir
11 Hoyland
12 Horne
13 Grigg
14 Jones
15 Graham

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by George Carlin on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 7:34 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Surely a Scotland midget backline would be

9 Horne
10 Weir
11 Hoyland
12 Horne
13 Grigg
14 Jones
15 Graham
The combined weight of one Alan Jacobson.
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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 8:00 pm

JOnes is too tall! 5'11"  Peter Horne is 6"

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 8:08 pm

Pete Horne definitely isn't 6ft! I'm 6ft and he's shorter than me having stood next to him - 5ft 10, maybe 5ft 11 on his tip toes...

Given that Glasgow stats claim Swinson is 6ft 5 and over 18st they definitely can't be trusted!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 8:33 pm

it was Wiki but I guess the same applies

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Sun 07 Oct 2018, 8:33 pm

I am loving " an Alan Jacobsen" as a unit of weight ;-)

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 9:43 am

Jackson is pretty small as well.  He could be moved into that team.

On the game, for those that watched it on TV, for Cheetahs first try, did the tackled player release the ball when he was tackled?  I was at the other end of the pitch and initially it looked fine to me, but someone pointed out that the tackle was completed, the Cheetahs player didn't release the ball, got back on his feet and passed to a teammate.  I've not seen it back so I don't know, and not that it made a difference to the final result, I'm just interested.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 9:45 am

That's something I forgot to say - for me it definitely wasn't a try. He was held in the tackle and didn't release the ball before getting up. It wasn't an offload from the ground - he tried to get up having not released the ball.

I wasn't so fussed as we were all at sea and it probably deserved a try, but I think it should have been our penalty!

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 9:54 am

I guess the test is if it was Edinburgh/Scotland in that position would you be annoyed if it was disallowed?

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 9:55 am

I thought the edinburgh player lifted him up and for me it was quick enough that it was an offload out of the tackle

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 9:57 am

I was waiting on TJ coming to say we're all wrong! Why would the Edinburgh player lift him up having tackled him?

It looked like he was trying to get up from the tackle but hadn't released. He then offloaded, which is fine, but it came after he tried to get up.

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 10:43 am

Its split second stuff.  I didn't scream at the TV like I sometimes do when I think the ref wrong

Looked to me like VDM was triing to pull him into touch or something - its really hard to tell tho and I guess one of those that could go either way.  VDM still had his hands all over him as the cheetahs guy passed it

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 10:54 am

Its split second stuff.  I didn't scream at the TV like I sometimes do when I think the ref wrong

Looked to me like VDM was triing to pull him into touch or something - its really hard to tell tho and I guess one of those that could go either way.  VDM still had his hands all over him as the cheetahs guy passed it

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by tigertattie on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 12:00 pm

Gutted no one has picked up on my snow white remark! Perhaps my humour is too highbrow for you lot? Where is FES when you need him?

If we're still looking for a midget in the backs, surely we could talk Max Evans out of reitrement?
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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

Post by TJ on Mon 08 Oct 2018, 12:05 pm

tigertattie - I did.

TJ

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Join date : 2013-09-22

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Re: Edinburgh V Cheetahs

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