So, the RWC, awesome display og hosting, or a bit of a disappointment.

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 1:51 pm

I've been a bit critical of this RWC, despite being a massive promoter of Japan's ability and justification to host, and they've clearly been incredible hosts.

If we leave the decision to run it in Typhoon season aside, and we don't think about cancelled fixtures etc...

Has this RWC been good from a neutral standpoint?

South Africa and Japan will be very please with it, Wales and England I think will look back and say they had decent tournaments, but not many games were that exciting for a neutral.

The very few tight ding dongs came from Wales, v France, Fiji, Australia and SA.

The only other tense match was tonga coming from behind to scare france. All other victories seemed to be comfortable...

AB v SA
Eng v NZ
SA v Eng
Eng v Aus
SA v Japan
Japan v Ire/scot

So, did this RWC inspire, or disappoint?

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Post by Steffan on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 2:23 pm

I thought it was a great RWC to be honest. Some of the rugby was a bit static but that's just the modern game unfortunately. I know games got cancelled but that couldn't be helped. I think it was one of the best ones for years

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 2:36 pm

I'll give it to you, it was the best world cup for 4 years...

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 3:20 pm

Not the best for us but loved the hosts passion for the game. Too many things out of their control hurt the tournament. England wopped us fair and square, I guess that’s gonna happen if you focus two and a half years on the one match...unfortunately for them that’s all it yielded. Good for SA rugby which is struggling lately.

World Cup...different beast.

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Post by profitius on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 3:33 pm

The Japanese were great. As for the rugby.. 3/10. Had a few good matches but overall a big disappointment.
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 3:36 pm

Twice now Eddie as head coach has put the ABs out then lost the final a week later. Wonder if he’ll stay on till the next one?

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 5:05 pm

Youve already made this thread: http://www.606v2.com/t69189-rwc-review

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 5:38 pm

Awesome tournament. Best ever.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 6:19 pm

I think this tournament was a great tournament.

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Post by Old Man on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 6:21 pm

This tournament was an epic, with a great ending, and surprising twist in the ending Wink

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 6:33 pm

I thought it was good but not a patch on 2011 or 2015.

- Typhoon issues. To just gloss over this is crazy.
- Humidity issues impacted on the playing standards after week 2
- It felt a lot less 'present' and pressing compared to all the last few tournaments, not just 2015, even in Britain where England made the final. Spoke to a non-rugby, casual watcher if forced to do so socially friend who said 'I barely know it's on'.
- The rugby culture has changed - too much ref moaning in public, too many floating fans who see it as "it's coming home 2018" mark 2.
- It feels like rugby has its scheduling/workload wrong. Typhoon issues aside, it still feels a tough ask to ask teams to back up in the way they are, particularly going in to the knockouts. More than that, it feels like the game has got the point it cannot really sustain that lack of rotation - SA proved the most durable team in the tournament, with only Jesse Kriel leaving early due to injury, and de Allende, his replacement, becoming a key figure in their success. Durability ofc should be rewarded but it makes the tournament much more predictable, particularly for the best tier 2 teams, if the rules stay as they are. Fiji v Uruguay is a great example of that - a surprise loss in some ways, but unsurprising that Fiji could not compete against both the tier 1 teams and maintain standards in rotation or go on and qualify.

Lots of positives though. We saw the continuation of 'targeted' wins come to the fore with England toppling NZ, SA toplling England, Japan toppling Ireland/Scotland, Ireland toppling Scotland, Wales toppling Australia, NZ toppling Ireland. That was enjoyable but it does lead to disappointment and quite an up/down tournament when teams cannot back it up. No one really 'streaked' their way to the final - SA ground their way there and just had enough. It was hardly a classic, the game v Wales was really poor as a spectacle and they very nearly lost it. There has been more of a sense of upward momentum and less 'holding back for one big game' in previous tournaments.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 8:57 pm

Na, it was great. So happy for the Boks getting up with the ‘real’ issues facing their rugby. Hosts were fantastic, and played like it to match. Already forgotten about the typhoon. All it really did was robbed Parisse a good send off.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 8:58 pm

Old Man wrote:This tournament was an epic, with a great ending, and surprising twist in the ending Wink

thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 9:00 pm

Taylorman wrote:Na, it was great. So happy for the Boks getting up with the ‘real’ issues facing their rugby. Hosts were fantastic, and played like it to match. Already forgotten about the typhoon. All it really did was robbed Parisse a good send off.

Agreed. Beating an unfocused NZ would have been a great way to see Parisse off in to the sunset.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 9:20 pm

Yep, Wales got over their extra game yet? Or will that happen by the 6N?

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 11:50 pm

Well, few World Cups could boast so many 'surprises'.  Seems the moral of the story is that it doesn't matter how Great a side you are... you're going to encounter a better one when you least expect it.

On those terms and in those kinda games, the Japan World Cup has been spoiled for choice.

But for me, there has been a mood over the whole affair that just seemed cynical or just perhaps less innocent and enjoyable.  Refereeing was much too restrictive in the early stages and yet by the final series of play off games, referees had learned once again how to slide over incidents they were giving yellows or reds to when teams were just trying to settle in.  
I detected too that broadcasting directors shied away from repeating such questionable incidents to give referees and TMOs a more relaxed time as they relaxed their willingness to pull cards.
So inequality in this and other well debated areas was actually a big factor in what most fans would hope to be a consistently equatable contest throughout.

Next time, precise WC rules should be enforced at least two years out from the event so that teams don't arrive having to adapt to more strict rules as well as ponder their complex coaching strategies to get through pools and through play off stages.

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Post by whocares on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 9:22 pm

- Positives: great hosts (team and supporters ), a few exciting rugby games and couple of minor « upsets » (and yes i include the final and NZ England in here) but mainly no one has claimed the « moral victory » trophy yet.
- negatives : typhoon, probably too many pool games indeed (go back to 4 team pools please even if that means having a best of 16 knock out round).
Haven’t mentioned referring because while it was pretty average across all the games I watched there wasn’t any big match deciding controversial call (as opposed to other recent world cups).

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 03 Nov 2019, 9:55 pm

Taylorman wrote:Na, it was great. So happy for the Boks getting up with the ‘real’ issues facing their rugby. Hosts were fantastic, and played like it to match. Already forgotten about the typhoon. All it really did was robbed Parisse a good send off.

The families of those who lost their lives won't have 'already forgotten about the typhoon' and will have considered it more important than Parisse's send off.
World Rugby taking this event to a country in typhoon season and knowingly risking a catastrophe have again demonstrated their unfitness for purpose.

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Post by Dirtydave on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:12 am

I have to agree in part with Aukster, taking the rec to Japan was long over due, risking typhoon season was an idiotic move!

I think part of what was difficult for me was the morning games, I lost a lot of weekends through 7am drinkypoos, and was tired for 3 weeks having to get up at 4/5am a lot.

I think I got fatigued, whereas the Lions tour would give you rest days, and the excitement was easy to maintain!

Little shallow I know, but it is what it is... oh, and the jealousy of friends who travelled out there!!!

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:14 am

Surely 2011 would have also affected you with early morning matches?

2027 in the US will affect you with late games after bed time.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:19 am

The Great Aukster wrote:World Rugby taking this event to a country in typhoon season and knowingly risking a catastrophe have again demonstrated their unfitness for purpose.

Typhoon season is ostensibly July to October, with the main months being August and September. With the Unions refusing to play a World Cup in May/June or November December, World Rugby did the best they coudl and played it in the safest window possible (noting it is 2 weeks later than 2023 will be). That Japan was hit by a once in a generation typhoon was the main issue, exacerbated by poor contingency planning. However not sure any contingency would have coped with the ferocity of Hagibis.

Hagibis was the cause of real human tragedy (as you stated in the bit I cut), but lets be honest the rugby impact was merely a little sad.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 10:16 am

The Great Aukster wrote:...World Rugby taking this event to a country in typhoon season and knowingly risking a catastrophe...

Dirtydave wrote:....If we leave the decision to run it in Typhoon season aside...

I can't understand why I'm still hearing this rubbish about "typhoon season". It's not a discrete period like Christmas or Easter. You can, and do, get typhoons in the Pacific at any time of the year. The only way to be sure of avoiding a typhoon - or earthquake for that matter - is to never schedule an event in Japan.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 11:25 am

It's not about certainty or guaranteed no-storm months.  Nobody is that dumb to demand such guarantees, we hope.

But in the limited research I've done when the Typhoon was a contentious issue before it hit and after, there IS such a thing as Typhoon season in Japan...it IS denoted by reference to specific months.  Just as other parts of the world denote average weather conditions to be expected in certain periods of the year, so too does Japan - for example, an Irish TV pundit just recently was mentioning that he was speaking to Japanese people about their opinions of the Olympics coming in their summer.... and he was saying many of them were even querying the wisdom of that choice as they know how hot it gets and how humid.  So the world rocks on its axis, the sun rises and dips on the horizon, its heat creates the energies that are released to storm systems...and the likelihood of a Typhoon increases in Typhoon season.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 11:28 am

...but even so. Don't think that was the criticism. You can't blame the host for its seasons or its weather. The criticism was directed at WR, that despite its protestations to the contrary had no viable contingency plans in place to create the fair contest components to its competition in the event of a Typhoon hitting in Typhoon season

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 12:07 pm

For me the whole cup was marred by the awful events of the final. Whilst not fully under the control of the organisers the spectacle was ruined by England not turning up. I'm especially disgusted by Englands lack of contingency plans for Ben Youngs' passing going to poo again and a team bothering to tackle properly against them.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 12:19 pm

miaow wrote:No one really 'streaked' their way to the final - SA ground their way there and just had enough.

I might be struggling with the word " streaked" here (bacon?) but 
Eng 35 Tonga 3
Eng 45 USA  7
Eng 29 Arg 10
Eng 40 Aus 16
Eng 19 NZ 7

Is about as emphatic a streak of wins as a teams ever had to reach the final after NZ in 2011. The last world cup NZ won their semi final by 2 and Aus their quarter by 1  

That said the most on pitch nudity was seen near the end of the joint 3rd place match, so if you mean that kind of streak...

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 12:47 pm

Gooseberry wrote:For me the whole cup was marred by the awful events of the final. Whilst not fully under the control of the organisers the spectacle was ruined by England not turning up. I'm especially disgusted by Englands lack of contingency plans for Ben Youngs' passing going to poo again and a team bothering to tackle properly against them.

True and I actually blame 606 for some of the confusion and mismanagement issues.... after all, some of the English players must have heard the reports, first expressed on these pages, that some of the medals would be made from KitKat tinfoil rather than genuine precious metals.

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Post by miaow on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 2:20 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
miaow wrote:No one really 'streaked' their way to the final - SA ground their way there and just had enough.

I might be struggling with the word " streaked" here (bacon?) but 
Eng 35 Tonga 3
Eng 45 USA  7
Eng 29 Arg 10
Eng 40 Aus 16
Eng 19 NZ 7

Is about as emphatic a streak of wins as a teams ever had to reach the final after NZ in 2011. The last world cup NZ won their semi final by 2 and Aus their quarter by 1  

That said the most on pitch nudity was seen near the end of the joint 3rd place match, so if you mean that kind of streak...

Pretty simple - they didn't play their hardest group game. It muddies things somewhat. Not their fault, either, but their other tough group game was ruined by Argentina shooting themselves in the foot early doors. England were also fortunate that Australia decided to do much of the same. There was once incredble win v NZ but by and large there was either a huge disparity with the opposition or their normally-tough opponents were dunk or absent. Either way - England showed in the fnal that the ability to 'back up' good games in rugby is on the wane.

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