Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

I'm fine with immigration of people who bring value to the country in one way or another, who wouldn't be? What I'm not in favour of is people who bring nothing to the country in terms of skills, education, money etc. I wouldn't expect the many millions of useless Britons to be able to go the other way either just for balance.

What policy is has actively being engaged to stop people of a particular race unable to enter the country anyway? I've not seen any.

[super_realist]

I didnt say that, and are they being shot? No.

[super_realist]

Over 8,000 new cases yesterday in a country testing roughly the same as the UK but with a population twenty times bigger.

They've only had 6000 deaths.

[Soul Requiem]

Over 8,000 new cases yesterday in a country testing roughly the same as the UK but with a population twenty times bigger.

They've only had 6000 deaths.

Only 6,000 reported deaths so far but there is a three week lag between new cases and deaths so the end of the month will be the time to take notice.

[beninho]

I didnt say that, and are they being shot? No.

What did you mean by your comment then?

And, yep, they have been shot and fired at. Look at my thread from earlier.

[super_realist]

I didnt say that, and are they being shot? No.

What did you mean by your comment then?

And, yep, they have been shot and fired at. Look at my thread from earlier.

You referred to UK journalists being abused, and I simply said that they don't help themselves.

Also, US journalists are not being targeted with guns, don't be ridiculous. Some people have been shot who happen to be journalists.

[beninho]

Just to clarify, you don't think any journalists are being targeted and assaulted by police in America, even though there are videos of journalists being targeted and assaulted including being shot at?

[super_realist]

I don't think they are disproportionately, which is the point you are trying to make.

You have no evidence that they are seeking journalists out and actively targeting them. You have "evidence" of journalists being attacked, but you are making the connection that it is because they are from the press.

[beninho]

So, one of the videos, has a guy shouting press, showing his card, and then being pepper sprayed. What other reason can you argue for that? Mistaken identity?

[super_realist]

Doesn't mean he's being targeted. I'm sure you can find just as many videos of non journalists being pepper sprayed.

Targeting means they are actively being sought out, and a few videos of journalists being pepper sprayed isn't proof of them being targeted in a sea of riot response videos and rioters being pepper sprayed. Typical confirmation bias.

[beninho]

Realist,

Do you think any American officers will have issues with journalists, especially when you consider the narrative from the white House over the years?

Do you think any police officers are racist and act in a racist manner when dealing with black people?

[super_realist]

Ben, the point is that you have no evidence they are actually being targeted over the general public.

Of course I think that the police and wider American society have a racism issue, why even ask that?

Not really sure why you think you have a horse in the race though.

[beninho]

I'm still struggling to comprehend your view.

You have seen journalists assaulted, even after showing that they are journalists. Yet, you don't think any journalists have been targeted by a police officer.

I think,your argument is the police are targeting everyone,so journalists are just collateral damage. Surely, if thats the case, its just as bad, if not worse.

[Soul Requiem]

So each and every person is targeted by the police because of their occupation? Or rather the police are targeting anyone regardless of occupation because they (the police) are idiots.

[super_realist]

My point is that you don't seem to understand the term targeted. I understand that some journalists have been attacked, my point is you haven't proven it is because they are journalists.

Of course it doesn't make it any better if they are being attacked alongside the public, but that wasn't the point. The point is whether police are specifically going after journalists and they aren't, or at least there is no evidence to suggest they are.

[beninho]

My point is that you don't seem to understand the term targeted. I understand that some journalists have been attacked, my point is you haven't proven it is because they are journalists.

Of course it doesn't make it any better if they are being attacked alongside the public, but that wasn't the point. The point is whether police are specifically going after journalists and they aren't, or at least there is no evidence to suggest they are.

Well obviously me and you have different ideas on how we come to a decision. It looks pretty clear cut to me though.

[super_realist]

Yes we do, you use confirmation bias and I don't.

[beninho]

So each and every person is targeted by the police because of their occupation? Or rather the police are targeting anyone regardless of occupation because they (the police) are idiots.

I don't think everyone is, I do think some officers are using it all as an excuse to assault journalists. I also think some of these forces and actions taken are also very idiotic.

[super_realist]

Certainly idiocy on both sides. The rioters are idiots.

[beninho]

Yes we do, you use confirmation bias and I don't.

Sorry, i forgot how you are the bastion of fairness, and not blinkered in anyway about anything...

[super_realist]

I don't think everyone is, I do think some officers are using it all as an excuse to assault journalists.

Tin foil hat.

[Soul Requiem]

So each and every person is targeted by the police because of their occupation? Or rather the police are targeting anyone regardless of occupation because they (the police) are idiots.

I don't think everyone is, I do think some officers are using it all as an excuse to assault journalists. I also think some of these forces and actions taken are also very idiotic.

I think some officers are using it as an excuse to assault anyone regardless of occupation and that seems pretty obvious to me, not sure why there's a need to extrapolate further than that.

[super_realist]

Yes we do, you use confirmation bias and I don't.

Sorry, i forgot how you are the bastion of fairness, and not blinkered in anyway about anything...

You're the one that hasn't proven its because they are journalists, you're the one ignoring the background of everyone else who has been "attacked", so if anyone is blinkered it's you.

If you can prove to me that it's because they are journalists, then why are people who aren't journalists also being attacked? Are journalists being disproportionately attacked? You have no evidence to prove this, so you can't claim they're being targeted, you can only some of them have been attacked, but you dont know the motive and you don't know the circumstances.

[beninho]

I don't think everyone is, I do think some officers are using it all as an excuse to assault journalists.

Tin foil hat.

I think its more alarming that you don't. Actually I don't.

[super_realist]

I don't think everyone is, I do think some officers are using it all as an excuse to assault journalists.

Tin foil hat.

I think its more alarming that you don't. Actually I don't.

I think they're targeting anyone who happens to be in the way, I haven't seen any evidence they're targeting journalists and neither does it seem have you, you've seen Some examples of journalists being attacked and have assumed they are being targeted because they are journalists . That's the difference.

[beninho]

Yes we do, you use confirmation bias and I don't.

Sorry, i forgot how you are the bastion of fairness, and not blinkered in anyway about anything...

You're the one that hasn't proven its because they are journalists, you're the one ignoring the background of everyone else who has been "attacked", so if anyone is blinkered it's you.

If you can prove to me that it's because they are journalists, then why are people who aren't journalists also being attacked? Are journalists being disproportionately attacked? You have no evidence to prove this, so you can't claim they're being targeted, you can only some of them have been attacked, but you dont know the motive and you don't know the circumstances.

Just to clarify, do you think that black people have been killed by racist police officers in America? And that the whole issue was brought up due to a racist murder?

If the answer is yes, how do you then think the same officers wouldn't ignore that people are journalists and assault them?

[beninho]

I will also add, do you think that the last few years of fake news and scummedia and abuse to journalists from the president and White House could make people believe that journalists are the enemy?

[super_realist]

I think that police in America kill people from lots of backgrounds, but as I've said a few times the police and wider society in America is far more racist than it is here.

I accept that some of the people who have been attacked HAPPEN to be journalists, but those attacked happen to be from hundreds of different occupations, doesn't mean they are actively looking for journalists to attack. You simply believe they are but have no evidence.

[super_realist]

I will also add, do you think that the last few years of fake news and scummedia and abuse to journalists from the president and White House could make people believe that journalists are the enemy?

I don't think that journalists are any more persecuted than any other background and I very much doubt you'd ever heard of scummedia before the last month.

[JAS]

Over 8,000 new cases yesterday in a country testing roughly the same as the UK but with a population twenty times bigger.

I'm surprised it's taken this long, some of the images from when their lockdown was announced just defied belief. Having said that you do have to wonder about the numbers coming out of some countries. Russia being a prime example, their infection rate is horrendous but their death rate is skewed way too low which means Ruskis are either incredibly healthy and shake it off easily or they're suddenly having flu & heart attacks in their thousands just before death so that the statistic doesn't say Covid.

You also have to wonder about most 3rd world countries ability to test and record both infections and deaths with any degree of accuracy.

[Soul Requiem]

Over 8,000 new cases yesterday in a country testing roughly the same as the UK but with a population twenty times bigger.

I'm surprised it's taken this long, some of the images from when their lockdown was announced just defied belief. Having said that you do have to wonder about the numbers coming out of some countries. Russia being a prime example, their infection rate is horrendous but their death rate is skewed way too low which means Ruskis are either incredibly healthy and shake it off easily or they're suddenly having flu & heart attacks in their thousands just before death so that the statistic doesn't say Covid.

You also have to wonder about most 3rd world countries ability to test and record both infections and deaths with any degree of accuracy.

I'm quite thankful in a way that we live in the UK, we've handled it far from perfectly but at least we have the ability to come to our own conclusion of things based on government numbers and wider than that the ONS statistics. If you're in Russia or India and being told everything is hunky dory with no discernible neutrality in the release of the statistics you'll carry on oblivious.

[JAS]

I think that police in America kill people from lots of backgrounds, but as I've said a few times the police and wider society in America is far more racist than it is here.

I accept that some of the people who have been attacked HAPPEN to be journalists, but those attacked happen to be from hundreds of different occupations, doesn't mean they are actively looking for journalists to attack. You simply believe they are but have no evidence.

I hope I'm wrong but I think we could be looking at white supremacist fascism starting to gain a mainstream foothold in the U.S. The Idiot in Chief should be condemning the Poopie out of what's going on but he's not, he's pouring petrol on the flames.

You lump a race element on top of Covid induced poverty and starvation, stir in the free availability of guns, partisan fake news and a leader totally lacking in statesmanship and any sort of connection between brain and mouth. Call me pessimistic but I don't see this ending well.

[McLaren]

I'm quite thankful in a way that we live in the UK, we've handled it far from perfectly but at least we have the ability to come to our own conclusion of things based on government numbers and wider than that the ONS statistics.

You mean the ONS statistics that you, super and navy refused to accept a few weeks back?And that Navy claimed was confirmation bias to mention?

[super_realist]

I'm quite thankful in a way that we live in the UK, we've handled it far from perfectly but at least we have the ability to come to our own conclusion of things based on government numbers and wider than that the ONS statistics.

You mean the ONS statistics that you, super and navy refused to accept a few weeks back?And that Navy claimed was confirmation bias to mention?

That wasn't what you were referring to Mac.

[McLaren]

Super

The point is that the police should not be taking any action against accredited media. The fact that they don't even check shows they have already made the decision that they are happy to target media either specifically or as colleteral damage when assaulting protesters.

[Soul Requiem]

I'm quite thankful in a way that we live in the UK, we've handled it far from perfectly but at least we have the ability to come to our own conclusion of things based on government numbers and wider than that the ONS statistics.

You mean the ONS statistics that you, super and navy refused to accept a few weeks back?And that Navy claimed was confirmation bias to mention?

Your point being what Mac?

The statistics are there to be used and interpreted however someone wishes to.

[McLaren]

No I was referring to the other ONS. Plank.

[super_realist]

Super

The point is that the police should not be taking any action against accredited media. The fact that they don't even check shows they have already made the decision that they are happy to target media either specifically or as colleteral damage when assaulting protesters.

Yes Mac, but anyone can hold up a card and pretend to be press in the middle of a riot.
The point is that the press are not being targeted, they have been assaulted alongside everyone else, but they haven't been actively targeted.

[super_realist]

No I was referring to the other ONS. Plank.

We didn't dispute the figures just your interpretation of why they were as they are. You were blaming it all on government decisions and everyone with a brain stated there was many reasons as to why Britain's figures were higher

Careful who you insult Mac, remember what happened last time?

[McLaren]

Did you miss the bit where a cnn journalist was arrested live on air when asking where he should stand? I guess the cops missed his id, camera man and producer.

[super_realist]

Did you miss the bit where a cnn journalist was arrested live on air when asking where he should stand? I guess the cops missed his id, camera man and producer.

Doesn't mean they are being disproportionately targeted Mac, not sure why you are unable to understand this. Why would there be a producer there?

[McLaren]

Why would there be a producer there? I don't know but there was. I assume there usually is.

[McLaren]

Also what about the instances where journalists were shot with rubber bullets. On one of those videos it was a pretty empty street and the police taking the shots would have known they were firing at journalists.

[super_realist]

Why would there be a producer there? I don't know but there was. I assume there usually is.

You think CNN or every broadcaster sends out a producer to every OB? More like some lackie.

[McLaren]

I have no idea. They were reffered to as the producer.

[super_realist]

Also what about the instances where journalists were shot with rubber bullets. On one of those videos it was a pretty empty street and the police taking the shots would have known they were firing at journalists.

What about all the non journalists shot with rubber bullets?
I'm not arguing that journalists haven't been involved in police action, simply that they aren't targeted on the basis of their occupation.
America police are too stupid and too poorly trained to get down to that sort of level.

They seem to be attacking anyone in front of them, rather than picking out any particular groups.

[dynamark]

I doubt any of us have ever been in a proper full on riot situation.This looks like a battle for the control of the street
In US folk are shooting each other on a daily basis in all manner of scenarios.Its not UK.

[McLaren]

Super

Are you an all lives matter guy?

[super_realist]

Never heard that expression Mac.

[kwinigolfer]

What a dangerous situation. And Trump, is seemingly used a church as a prop to his supporters. Not sure, if he's the man to unite the cou try.

Fortunately ben, I think he's doing a fine job of uniting the country. Against him. Even some Republican Senators seem to agree he's over the top and increasingly unhinged and deranged.

[McLaren]

Never heard that expression Mac.

You have never heard that as a response to black lives matter?

[Sponsored content]