2020 World Championship Thread

[CaledonianCraig]

First topic message reminder :

How about a thread to discuss the 2020 World Snooker Championships at The Crucible.

The delayed tournament starts today with a limited audience allowed in to watch the matches. The draw is as follows:-

Judd Trump (1) v Tom Ford
Yan Bingtao (16) v Elliot Slessor
Stephen Maguire (9) v Martin Gould
Kyren Wilson (8) - BYE
John Higgins (5) v Matthew Stevens
David Gilbert (12) v Kurt Maflin
Jack Lisowski (13) v Anthony McGill
Mark Allen (4) v Jamie Clarke
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Mark Williams (3) v Alan McManus
Stuart Bingham (14) v Ashley Carty
Ding Junhui (11) v Mark King
Ronnie O’Sullivan (6) v Thepchaiya Un-Nooh
Mark Selby (7) v Jordan Brown
Shaun Murphy (10) v Noppon Saengkham
Barry Hawkins (15) v Alexander Ursenbacher
Neil Robertson (2) v Liang Wenbo

Anthony Hamilton who suffers from asthma and qualified for the tournament has withdrawn due to COVID-19 and the fact there will be fans attending. This means Kyren Wilson gets a bye through to the Second Round.

This year there are five players making their Crucible debuts those being Elliot Slessor (England), Jordan Brown (Northern Ireland), Ashley Carty (England), Alexander Ursenbacher (Switzerland - the first Swiss player to play at the Crucible) and Jamie Clarke (Wales).

[No name Bertie]

Thanks for that explanation Chris.  I don't know the "personal" history between O'Sullivan and Selby, and I always give players a wide margin in what they say, especially in the heat of the moment.   My concern is always with how the media will play it.  

I am sure Selby would love to feel more respected in the game and feel more respected by O'Sullivan.   Selby's game is often downgraded and characterized as boring and bordering on gamesmanship by quite a few.  

In this match however I think Selby was maybe misreading the situation.  O'Sullivan said he was really struggling and in the end just played the way he played in the hope of finding that cue action.  O'Sullivan could very easily retire but what keeps him interested seems to be the challenge of finding within himself what he feels is good snooker.

[Duty281]

Yes, O'Sullivan's post-match interview was another beauty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S3MOV06Sv0

Hopefully he'll deliver another corker on Sunday night, or whenever it finishes. I'd be astonished if Wilson wins it, I felt beforehand that O'Sullivan/Selby was the final and I see no reason to alter from that. I think RoS wins 18-10 or something in that region. Bookmakers put him as a 3/10 favourite which seems fair.

[CaledonianCraig]

The Final starts this afternoon between Kyren Wilson and Ronnie O'Sullivan.

I always see this tournament like I did the Grand National (in the old days) when picking a winner - horses for courses and all that. Ronnie is a course and distance winner here many times and that is a huge advantage in itself. On the other hand Kyren has not and we saw the emotional mess he was in after just reaching the Final so how does he cope with the final?

Ronnie is the better players in every department (barring perhaps shots with the rest) so I see it being a final scoreline around 18-10 in Ronnie's favour. I just hope it is another cracker.

[Soul Requiem]

I don't think Wilson has the tactical game to trouble O'Sullivan, he'll score heavily when given the chance but will offer up lots of chances himself. Ronnie has played garbage for about 5 sessions so far this tournament and is still in the final, kind of legitimizes his previous comments somewhat.

Silly comments from Selby yesterday, if you can't compete in a tactical battle it makes sense to be ultra aggressive and I see nothing wrong with that approach myself. When Ronnie says he can't escape from snookers however those couple of shots on the final red suggest otherwise, the shot when behind the black was ridiculously good as was Selbys to put him there.

[JDizzle]

Selby should really take it as a compliment to be honest. ROS basically admitting he couldn't compete with him in a tactical battle and he had to make it ultra high variance. On another day, ROS misses one of those long pots and Selby just clears up and wants 17-14 or 15.

[Duty281]

3-1 to Ronnie after the opening mini-session. Bit of a scrappy start. Third frame was an O'Sullivan trademark - Wilson had one shot, missed it, and didn't get out of his seat again. Fourth frame was perhaps a pivotal one: Wilson missed a pot with the rest that you'd expect him to get and Ronnie countered clinically.

Wilson needs to do something in the next four frames. Would be a hell of an uphill task if he were 6-2 or 7-1 down at the end of this afternoon.

[Guest]

Neither playing particularly well, but RoS just controlling the match really. Long way back from here for Wilson.

RoS 6-2 Wilson

[Soul Requiem]

6-2 O'Sullivan so far

The eighth frame will be a real kick in the teeth for Wilson, had a couple of opportunities to win it but after a lengthy tactical exchange left a simple pink for Ronnie to snatch the frame. It's not vintage stuff so far despite the two centuries and a couple of other decent breaks but his application and concentration is levels above what he's shown in previous rounds, despite what he may say that sixth world title obviously means a great deal.

Wilson appears to be letting the occasion get to him somewhat, lots of easy pots missed whilst in among the balls and his safety doesn't look up to par so far, he's being outplayed in every facet and that must be a worry. I don't think I can make a case for him making the final close let alone winning.

[Duty281]

And 3-1 in the second mini-session making it 6-2 to Ronnie. As expected, not much quality on show yet, plenty of errors, though Ronnie did claw a century out of nowhere at one point.

The final frame of the afternoon was properly scrappy and probably crucial: Wilson missing a tough pink that would have left the scores 5-3 going into the evening. Instead he missed and it's 6-2.

Early days, but difficult to see how Wilson comes back from a four frame deficit. Another session like this one tonight and the Rocket will be just about out of sight.

[CaledonianCraig]

Immediate thoughts......awful standard. Worst that I recall in any World Final I have seen. Embarrassing misses, twitches, practice swings, head shaking and grimaces. O'Sullivan leads 6-2 and he'll be pleased with the score but horrified with the standard. I am with Hendry - I see no way back for Wilson.

[CaledonianCraig]

Wilson looks emotionally shot and Ronnie looks bemused by his misses.

[Guest]

Not overly surprised by Wilson’s play. Mixture of nerves, being mentally drained, and, going up against, Ronnie, was always going to be an uphill task.

This final could be a case of ‘after the Lord Mayors show’, in terms of following those semi’s, and Ronnie just strolling to a relatively straightforward victory.

[CaledonianCraig]

It was interesting (maybe even surprising) listening to Wilson's post match interview yesterday. He spoke that it had always been his dream to play in the World Final. Just play? Not win? Normally, players will say their ambition was to WIN the world title. I may be totally wrong and maybe it is just how the interviewee worded the question but I find it odd. It just begs the question:- Does Kyren Wilson feel too satisfied reaching the Final to lift himself for winning the title?

[No name Bertie]

It is a best of 35 final I am sure Wilson will find some form at some stage. Same with Ronnie. Didn't Wilson go behind in the semi-final against McGill?

[CaledonianCraig]

It is a best of 35 final I am sure Wilson will find some form at some stage.  Same with Ronnie.  Didn't Wilson go behind in the semi-final against McGill?

You would like to think so. It really was truly bizarre this afternoon.

[No name Bertie]

How was it with the "crowd" of 300 people.   Playing in a large auditorium with people spaced around the arena must create a strange atmosphere / acoustic.  Ronnie O'Sullivan has been quoted as saying he feels that he and Wilson are being treated like guinea pigs, saying the organizers are risking peoples health for money by bringing hundreds of people into an enclosed arena.   He compared that with UK and European football matches being played in empty outdoor stadiums.

[Guest]

Error from Wilson is punished by the Rocket

7-2

Ominous

[Duty281]

Huge error. Good cue action to counter.

Five frame lead already. Might be looking at a session three finish unless Wilson responds well.

[Guest]

Wilson’s cue ball control is pretty woeful. Neither playing great, but Ronnie snatches another frame.

8-2

[Guest]

Good comeback from Wilson. Not a great spectacle. Some strange goings on with Ronnie too, channeling his inner Selby.

8-4

[Duty281]

Good grit from Wilson, just about sticking in. Can he take 3 or 4 more frames tonight and make it a proper game going into Sunday? Probably not, but let's see.

[Soul Requiem]

The table is garbage, appears the humidity is affecting things.

[Guest]

Wilson gaining confidence frame by frame. Ronnie just hasn’t really got going tonight, in fact, he hasn’t really even turned up.

8-6

[Guest]

9-7

Wilson has been the far superior player tonight

[Oioi]

Kyren is playing a blinder it must be said. Great to watch. Think it'll come down to the wire tomorrow!

[Guest]

Massive last frame. Wilson misses a red, and Ronnie is gifted the frame

10-7

Ronnie will be over the moon

[Duty281]

Poor session from Ronnie, excellent one for Wilson. At 8-2 he could have been blown away, so it counts as a very tidy comeback, which could have been even better if not for some pivotal misses.

Glad we've got a game going into the final day.

[CaledonianCraig]

Awful standard remains. O'Sullivan's long game has disappeared and Wilson cannot finish off frames he should be winning. As Hendry says the worst O'Sullivan has ever played in a final or JP who stated the worst he has ever seen him play. Any chance we can call down Dott and Ebdon for better entertainment please? Pretty please?

Anyway as to what occurred Wilson will be in two minds just now. Happy to have recovered from 8-2 down to 10-7 down but also peeved he is not leading 9-8. How will both players react after a good night's sleep? Will O'Sullivan sort out his technique and crisis in confidence? Will Wilson sort out his positional play and mental demons? We will see.

[Guest]

I’d give them a break. It’s a tough, long drawn out 17 day competition, and the table conditions are poor. Those semi finals also clearly drained both players, physically, and mentally. Also, recklessly throwing in 300 crowd members into the arena has probably also suddenly changed the environmental conditions again.

Intriguing third session ahead.

[No name Bertie]

Is it hot and humid inside the Crucible theatre? I assume the whole place is not air conditioned (air conditioning is a good way to spread Coronavirus as it usually involves recirculation of a portion of the air). I have been hearing that the players have been experiencing kicks and unusual cushion bounces indicating issues with static electricity and possibly humidity.

[CaledonianCraig]

Table conditions have Jack to do with cue action. Wilson managed one century break on the table so proves it is not the fault of the table. When players cannot get balls even in the jaws of pockets when going for pots then that says it all.

Got to admire double standards again. Ronnie O played on when he needed five snookers in frame 12 but no utterance here of gamesmanship. How very odd? It just proves my point that playing for snookers is NOT gamesmanship whoever it is. It is a legitimate part of the sport. Heck look at the semi between McGill and Wilson. I do believe McGill had five failed attempts to get out of a snooker.

[No name Bertie]

My question had nothing to do with cue action nor gamesmanship. I was just interested in the atmospheric conditions and the table conditions to see if the two might be connected.

[CaledonianCraig]

My question had nothing to do with cue action nor gamesmanship.  I was just interested in the atmospheric conditions and the table conditions to see if the two might be connected.

The humid conditions have been present for days at The Crucible and yes it affects table conditions as tournaments played in the Far East suffer similar conditions but they counter it playing with a different cloth. I do not see that as any excuse for the poor standards though for a World Final.

My remark was aimed at Just John trying to excuse away a very poor standard as being the table's fault. In O'Sullivan's case he is psycho-analysing every mistake he has made re-enacting his cue action as he goes back to his seat and in Wilson's case the occasion seems to have got to him. As for the gamesmanship it was aimed at earlier posters accusing Selby of gamesmanship because he dared to play for snooker against 'the chosen one'. Ronnie needed even more snookers in frame 12 but played on as is his right and Mark Selby's before him without the need to cite any form of gamesmanship.

[No name Bertie]

Okay thanks

I am dipping into this thread to find out what is happening with the match and I have also found someone who is livestreaming the match - so I might dip into that when the match reaches the latter stages.

[Soul Requiem]

I'm guessing Craig you've never played Snooker, to quote you all the former and current players seem in agreement that the table is garbage which does affect the game of both players.

[Guest]

I didn’t mean it was the only reason for a poorer standard. It’s been a multitude of reasons, as i stated.

As for Ronnie’s actions last night, he was mocking selby’s play and post match comments, ranging from taking his time on snookers and also continuing to play on, despite needing three or more snookers. Ronnie isn’t right in the head, but that’s what he does.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'm guessing Craig you've never played Snooker, to quote you all the former and current players seem in agreement that the table is garbage which does affect the game of both players.

And you obviously know more than Hendry and John Parrot? Both commentators cited how crap O'Sullivan played. Hendry said the worst he has seen in a Final from Ronnie and JP saying it was the worst he had ever seen him play. Jeez he went three or four frames where his highest break was 15 and you know fine well it was more than just table conditions causing that. But hey ho I don't expect you ever to admit that. But perhaps an apology for citing gamesmanship for Selby for daring to play for snookers? Or cite Ronnie for the same here and now?

[Soul Requiem]

I'm guessing Craig you've never played Snooker, to quote you all the former and current players seem in agreement that the table is garbage which does affect the game of both players.

And you obviously know more than Hendry and John Parrot? Both commentators cited how crap O'Sullivan played. Hendry said the worst he has seen in a Final from Ronnie and JP saying it was the worst he had ever seen him play. Jeez he went three or four frames where his highest break was 15 and you know fine well it was more than just table conditions causing that. But hey ho I don't expect you ever to admit that. But perhaps an apology for citing gamesmanship for Selby for daring to play for snookers? Or cite Ronnie for the same here and now?

Do get over yourself for once, nobody is saying that it is the only reason why they are playing badly but it is a major reason why, your ignorance to that fact suggests you've never played the game.

You told us all previously that it wasn't gamesmanship so make up your mind?

[CaledonianCraig]

And just to clarify my stance on it. Playing for snookers is not gamesmanship. It wasn't by Selby and wasn't by Ronnie. Players are entitled to play on and attempt to get snookers - it is not gamesmanship unless of course it is something daft like 10 snookers needed.

[CaledonianCraig]

Well Soul Requiem you certainly feel its gamesmanship as you made that known the other night. Selby needed three snookers and you were citing it as gamesmanship. Ronnie needed five snookers last night and played on but no gamesmanship accusations from you. Gross double standards on your behalf or erroneous on calling Selby out for gamesmanship? Take your pick.

My take - playing for snookers is not gamesmanship. I've lost count the amount of times I have seen frames where a player has needed snookers and came back to win a frame.

[Soul Requiem]

Intent matters Craig, things are not as black and white as you wish them to be.

[Duty281]

I’d give them a break. It’s a tough, long drawn out 17 day competition, and the table conditions are poor. Those semi finals also clearly drained both players, physically, and mentally. Also, recklessly throwing in 300 crowd members into the arena has probably also suddenly changed the environmental conditions again.

Intriguing third session ahead.

I hope World Snooker consider implementing a 'rest day' in between the semi-finals and final for future tournaments, something which was implemented in darts a few years ago. Both players looked mentally drained from their efforts in the semi-final, Wilson especially, and it was always pretty likely both players were going to struggle yesterday with such a short turnaround time. Hopefully things will improve today.

[Guest]

Too many gifts from Wilson

12-8 to RoS

[Guest]

Ronnie looking fresh and accelerating away now

13-8 to Ronnie

[Duty281]

Much needed pick up in quality from Ronnie. Couple more frames this afternoon and the evening session will be a formality.

[Duty281]

14-8. Think that's the point of no return.

[Duty281]

15-8. That's definitely the point of no return.

[Guest]

16-8 end is near

[Duty281]

Another excellent counter-attack from Ronnie. Six frames on the bounce.

Small matter of Kyren needing to win 10 out of 11 frames to lift the title.

[Guest]

17-8

End of session

Ronnie superb today

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