Angel Cabrera

I've always thought he was a pretty straight forward, honest bloke. I read yesterday he's under arrest in Brazil, to be extradited to Argentina to face a raft of charges including assault, theft, illegal intimidation and repeated disrespect to authorities (whatever that is - we probably could all be arrested for that).

Apparently Cabrera’s ex-wife, Silva Rivadero, had filed two charges against him and that his former girlfriend, Cecilia Torres, claimed Cabrera had punched her, threatened her and attempted to run her over with his car in 2016.

He could be paying a lengthy visit to the Buenos Aires Country Club if that lot is proven.

The charges that come from the assault of his ex wife and girlfriend are particularly worrying. I remember the odd occasion that he blew up at his caddie, seems he had a temper issue.

Presumably, he's allowed to both defend himself and be presumed innocent until found to be otherwise?

navyblueshorts wrote:Presumably, he's allowed to both defend himself and be presumed innocent until found to be otherwise?

I am not familiar with the Argentine legal system.

McLaren wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Presumably, he's allowed to both defend himself and be presumed innocent until found to be otherwise?

I am not familiar with the Argentine legal system.

Neither am I, but I'm presuming we'll wait to see if he is in fact convicted of anything, before tarring him as some wife-beating misogynist?

Why doubt the victims? I am not saying you would convict him just based on victim claims but it is enough to assume he is a wife beater. Rates of false assault claims are very low.

McLaren wrote:Why doubt the victims? I am not saying you would convict him just based on victim claims but it is enough to assume he is a wife beater. Rates of false assault claims are very low.

What are the rates in Argentina?

Soul Requiem wrote:

McLaren wrote:Why doubt the victims? I am not saying you would convict him just based on victim claims but it is enough to assume he is a wife beater. Rates of false assault claims are very low.

What are the rates in Argentina?

Very low.

McLaren wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

McLaren wrote:Why doubt the victims? I am not saying you would convict him just based on victim claims but it is enough to assume he is a wife beater. Rates of false assault claims are very low.

What are the rates in Argentina?

Very low.

You'll be able to provide the figures then.

McLaren wrote:Why doubt the victims? I am not saying you would convict him just based on victim claims but it is enough to assume he is a wife beater. Rates of false assault claims are very low.

What a nonsensical position to adopt. No offence, Mac, but one day I hope you're convicted of something in the court of social media. You might understand then.

Navy we know a couple of things here. Rates of false abuse accusations are low and the Argentine government feel there is enough credibility to the claims to add them to an extradition application? For me that means it is more likely that he abused his ex partners than not. As I said this does not mean you throw him in jail based on that but in terms of what has likely happened it is enough.

Out of interest, do you only believe victims of domestic abuse once the perpetrator has been convicted?

Rates of false abuse accusations are low in the UK, you'll as asked previously be able to provide the numbers for Argentina.

The rates of false accusations only have to be less than <50% for my argument to hold. (Unless you use Super_realist probability)

As all I am saying it is more likely that he has abused those women.

McLaren wrote:The rates of false accusations only have to be less than <50% for my argument to hold. (Unless you use Super_realist probability)

As all I am saying it is more likely that he has abused those women.

More than likely based on a snap judgement. The rates of false accusations have to far lower than 50% for your argument to have any legitimacy, we're not talking about the lottery here but rather something slightly more important.

I am not sure the length of the judgement changes the maths here. If false accusation happen at less than 50%, the alternative is more likely. (assuming two possible outcomes, there could be more)

Soul, are you one of them or do you have sympathies for the MRA movement?

McLaren wrote:I am not sure the length of the judgement changes the maths here. If false accusation happen at less than 50%, the alternative is more likely. (assuming two possible outcomes, there could be more)

Sorry but that's a load of rubbish and maths does not apply in real life situations.

McLaren wrote:Navy we know a couple of things here. Rates of false abuse accusations are low and the Argentine government feel there is enough credibility to the claims to add them to an extradition application? For me that means it is more likely that he abused his ex partners than not. As I said this does not mean you throw him in jail based on that but in terms of what has likely happened it is enough.

Out of interest, do you only believe victims of domestic abuse once the perpetrator has been convicted?

Well, I won't think any different of him until he's been convicted if that's OK.

Re. your latter point, no. Good question though. If a female friend confided in me that something hideous had happened to her, I'd take it at face value I think. However, unless she was willing to do anything about it legally, I don't think it makes any sense to announce it publicly. It's not as if such accusations don't have consequences for men accused of such crimes. I don't think they should be bandied about as gossip.

Coming back to Cabrera, it's fine if he's been charged, but your assumption is that he's therefore guilty as charged. I'll wait.

McLaren wrote:I am not sure the length of the judgement changes the maths here. If false accusation happen at less than 50%, the alternative is more likely. (assuming two possible outcomes, there could be more)

This may be true on the face of it, but you don't get to assume or convict on that sort of logic I'm afraid. Not where serious crimes are potentially involved.

Navy

I tried to make it clear that I don't think an accusation of abuse (domestic, sexual, psychological, whatever) is enough to convict but in most circumstances I am happy to believe the victim. This does not preclude me from dismissing clearly false accusations.

In this case we not only have the accusations but legal experts at the highest level deciding that the accusations are credible enough to form part of an extradition case.


And on the probability stuff, forget it. It's not how I think about it. All I know is that accusations of serious domestic or sexual abuse are rare. I clearly don't have the exact number for Argentina but as I said for my logic to hold up the rate only has to be less than 50%.

Maybe, females just like making accusations against him. This isn't the first occasion an allegation has been made.

Just also, querying. Do people think, that the majority of claims of domestic abuse are made up?

But I think it’s fair to assume that Cabrera is no Angel.