Ulster Rugby 2022/2023

First topic message reminder :

Thought it was time for an update on the thread so this is the new all things Ulster thread.

It wasn't the best match to try and gauge much from. It wasn't really a convincing team effort from Ulster as everyone was trying to score individually instead of going through the phases, waiting for the defence to narrow before going wide. There was a lot of trucking up the middle, trying to find gaps that weren't there without support runners etc. but perhaps too many young lads were trying too hard to impress.
That being said it was a good training runout in that respect and despite Zebre stretching the offside laws to the maximum, they did get the ball wide on plenty of occasions but unfortunately were well covered by a very determined Italian side. Baloucoune is on a different planet, he's come back from long term injury looking like he hasn't missed a second of rugby. A class act for sure amongst a team of young talent, the future looks bright folks.

The unstructured nature of the game meant that the young players were faced with a situation they didn't know how best to handle.
A learning process and went ok as far as I am concerned.
Many of the young players only reemphasised their huge potential.
McCann is going to be one outstanding backrower

Hats off to Andrew who came bouncing back but most of all hats off to Treadwell who after a
poor game or two was absolutely brilliant and MOTM by a mile.

Kieron Campbell leaving Ulsters Academy set up this summer

Yep and with Willie Anderson going as well that is a huge gap to fill.
Those two have transformed our Academy from inadequate to producing a string of players of the highest quality.

Cant help thinking it will be Rory Best along side someone who has been there and done it at this level.
Whats Brian McLaughlin doing these days
He left Ballynahinch last summer.
We could do a lot worse and the people who stitch him up (Logan and Humphreys) are long gone

geoff999rugby wrote:
As to new Academy players the only ones I've seen who I think are as certain as I can imagine are Postlewaite and Humphreys

Id add Sheridan to this list - a handy looking backrower

I do hope they fill the gap because our academy has undoubtedly become miles better in the last few years and it's at a point now where it is starting to produce a number of very good players and that needs to continue.

Any whispers in potential replacements, Geoff? Willie Faloon? Best? Someone from <twitches> "outside"?

Could Campbell be leaving as he went for promotion and the skills couch role went to Newby instead?

I doubt it. He was appointed U20s coach for next season. That's a good place to work your way up from. He's been doing the job six years , apparently has family ties in Ealing. Maybe simply time for a change.

On the question of replacements Ulster are looking to have Rory Best in a roll but at the same time
it is recognise he needs to work alongside someone with coaching experience.
Hence the name of Willie Faloon has come up - he has had 3 very productive years at Armagh.
Having two ex players in charge is seen as a big bonus.

Campbell leaving hasn't to do with the changes in the Senior coaching west up.
He is moving to west London where he has family.
Not Ealing though - further west Hillingdon/Hayes area.
That isn't that far from Ealing - easy drive away.

One of the things they have done recently is work on expanding the catchment area of the academy beyond the same few schools, that needs to continue if Ulster wants to keep developing, this cannot be a return to 3 schools providing all of the academy

Team named for Quins game

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Sean Reidy, Jordi Murphy (Capt.), Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Cormac Izuchukwu, Matty Rea, Alby Mathewson, Ian Madigan, Ethan McIlroy.

Well given the two teams even with Henderson, Carter and Coetzee missing we should win.

Having said that I personally don't give much store to this years Challenge Cup as a credible competition - same for the Rainbow Cup.
A lot, most ?, teams aren't taking it seriously

I agree it doesn't hold the same value maybe as other seasons, however winning it would still be nice and importantly it would help this group of players if they could get a tournament, some silverware under their belt

Harlequins: Green; Northmore, Lang, Lasike, Earle; Herron, Steele; Garcia Botta, Elia, Collier, Tizard, Hammond, White, Kenningham, Lawday (capt).

Replacements: Head, Els, Kerrod, Cavubati, Jurevicius, Stafford, Tapuai, R Chisholm.

Looks a pretty second string Quins team. They are probably targeting top 6 in the Prem so they can qualify for top tier European Rugby next season.

Yea I mean, I wouldn't exactly boast about it... but given we've plenty of practice being the 'not quite' team, I think it would be really beneficial to actually win a competition even if it is second tier.
Good for young lads to maybe build confidence, they could get a taste for victory and trophy lifting.
I'd say a fair few recently retired players would have taken a challenge cup trophy lift over little else.
It shouldn't be the height of this teams ambitions by any means, but I do think, for now, this season it would be a very valuable place to kick on from.

Well done Ulster on the big win. Ulster should be looking to use the cup to build on much like Bristol did last year, and maybe Clermont the year before.

Depending what teams get up out you would have to feel that Ulster would have to much for Saints, Tigers or Newcastle (though Tigers young players look good for the future).

On the other side you would have to feel it's between Montpellier and Irish.

The one big advantage Ulster have compared to the Welsh is none of the other teams will boss that Ulster pack.

Also for players like Henderson and Stockdale winning trophies will help with 50/50 calls for Lions squads.

Admittedly there was some nice stuff in Ulster's win on Sunday evening but I was left a little worried by the fact that Quins B team could score three tries against us.

To be fair when you are so far ahead it's easy to let a few in. If it had been tighter I'm sure they wouldn't all have been scored

Don Alfonso wrote:I doubt it. He was appointed U20s coach for next season. That's a good place to work your way up from. He's been doing the job six years , apparently has family ties in Ealing. Maybe simply time for a change.

Campbell quoted as saying today “The opportunity to work as a senior coach in the skills and attack areas of the game is the challenge I have been seeking and I am delighted to have been given this opportunity.” by the sound of that is does sound like he lost out to Newby and wasn't happy.

I trust McF and Co, as they have been spot on with the coaching ticket so far. But would Campbell as Skills coach and Newby as Acamady coach been better?

The team for tomorrow:

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Alan O’Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Sean Reidy, Jordi Murphy (Capt.), Nick Timoney.

Replacements: John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Tom O’Toole, Matty Rea, Greg Jones, Alby Mathewson, Ian Madigan, Ethan McIlroy.

I won't wish you boys Good Luck for tonight, I want my team to have ALL the luck, but I hope it's a good game and is as injury free as you can get these days.

It could be a cracker.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I won't wish you boys Good Luck for tonight, I want my team to have ALL the luck, but I hope it's a good game and is as injury free as you can get these days.

It could be a cracker.

Lol right back at you haha

Lets hope it's a good game....and Ulster win

ALthough I'm pleased we got another win, again I find it worrying that we let in four tries. I hope our defence is better in the semifinal. Tom O'Toole coming on seemed to make a difference to the way the pack attacked the gain-line and IMO put us on the front foot and got us the win. I wouldn't mind seeing him start in the semi. Hume seems to be getting better and I like the look of McIlroy; he has an elusive run and always seems to be able to beat defenders. TBH I would be happy to see him start ahead of Stockdale who, despite his try yesterday, hasn't been impressive for me. With Henderson back I hope and believe we can beat Leicester.

Looking forward to it boys and girls. Just a shame we can't welcome your to Welford Road and the delights of Leicester.

I think this is going to be a brutally physical game. No idea what team Tigers will name because of Borthwick's rotation.

Was out last night. Thought I had recorded the match but hadn’t. Waited as long as I could trying my best to avoid score for the on demand service...
What exactly is the deal with BT sport catch up? Is Challenge Cup just not worth the effort?
They have extended highlights (not full replay) of the Bath London Irish game, and nothing but 4minute highlight reels if the other quarters.
Surely if it’s your own native broadcast and you’re a subscription service, is the on demand/ watch later service not the standard default?

Judging my the 4minute highlights it looked a bit if a nail-biter.
Glad we’re still on the March, but agreed on the conceding if tries.
The boys need reminding that the more tries we let in, the more we have to score to get our wins

It was a game that in previous years I think we'd have lost. Instead of folding in the last quarter Ulster went for the kill with a ruthlessness not seen for many years. Granted the Saints players may have been running on fumes after the early effort of playing with 13 on the field but make no bones about it, that was a great win on the road for a team that didn't exactly fire correctly for large periods of the match.
Leicester will be another hard one, they have 2 matches in the next fortnight to prepare, we'll have a rest and plenty of planning. We'll have Hendy back which will make a big difference and from what I heard, perhaps Addison who'd be a great impact player from the bench. Silverware is very much a possibility but it's going to be a very hard ask.

Marcel Coetzee will leave Ulster at the end of the month, due to the injury his stay is ending early

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56732151

neilthom7 wrote:Marcel Coetzee will leave Ulster at the end of the month, due to the injury his stay is ending early

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56732151

It's such a shame the fans didn't get the chance to give him a deserved send-off.
A huge loss to any side, a gaping void for Ulster.

Fair play to Marcel and I appreciate his service. This isn't a dig - but a question.
If you've been part of a squad as it builds, and you've been part of a season that's not over and there's still chance of silverware, do you not celebrate with the team in that even if you're injured?
Hypothetically, Ulster win the challenge cup, and the squad worked together to build to achieve it and Marcel is long gone?
Just seems a bit off. Maybe I just imagine more team spirit and camaraderie than there actually is in professional sport. Or perhaps logistically he just needs to be home, and with all the quarantine nonsense, there's no point him even considering any back and forth travel.

Either way, he will be missed!

clivemcl wrote:Fair play to Marcel and I appreciate his service. This isn't a dig - but a question.
If you've been part of a squad as it builds, and you've been part of a season that's not over and there's still chance of silverware, do you not celebrate with the team in that even if you're injured?
Hypothetically, Ulster win the challenge cup, and the squad worked together to build to achieve it and Marcel is long gone?
Just seems a bit off. Maybe I just imagine more team spirit and camaraderie than there actually is in professional sport. Or perhaps logistically he just needs to be home, and with all the quarantine nonsense, there's no point him even considering any back and forth travel.

Either way, he will be missed!

In a normal year yes. But being what it is maybe Ulster are saving on wages and he can go home sooner.

What are your thoughts on the Rainbow Cup Fixtures before the Challange Cup semi.

I see a few choices (sure there are more)

1. Full strenght going 100% and be battle hardened
2. Play full team but use it as a run out pulling of key players at halftime/50mins
3. Play combos some starting some bench with players in need of time starting.

Brendan wrote:What are your thoughts on the Rainbow Cup Fixtures before the Challange Cup semi.

I see a few choices (sure there are more)

1. Full strenght going 100% and be battle hardened
2. Play full team but use it as a run out pulling of key players at halftime/50mins
3. Play combos some starting some bench with players in need of time starting.

If the South African teams cannot play in it then I don't even see the point of the Rainbow cup assuming it happens.

Without them its just a short cup version of the league we just spent all year playing in and not being afforded an opportunity to do playoffs because of preparation for this cup which won't even happen properly

TBH if the Rainbow cup doesn't go ahead, I really like the idea of a interprovinical league, no Welsh or Scottish games, just the 4 provinces home and away, no need to rest players so full strenght and having a best team in Ireland.

I think this is what will happen, first 3 fixtures will be played, and if SA sides cannot travel for rainbow cup, then have the reverse 3 fixtures and make it a provincial league.

The Welsh cam do the same and crown the best team in Wales.

The Scots may not like it as much though.

Personally I'd actually prefer a fully loaded home and away inter pro series than the imbalanced unfair rainbow cup.

Brendan wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Fair play to Marcel and I appreciate his service. This isn't a dig - but a question.
If you've been part of a squad as it builds, and you've been part of a season that's not over and there's still chance of silverware, do you not celebrate with the team in that even if you're injured?
Hypothetically, Ulster win the challenge cup, and the squad worked together to build to achieve it and Marcel is long gone?
Just seems a bit off. Maybe I just imagine more team spirit and camaraderie than there actually is in professional sport. Or perhaps logistically he just needs to be home, and with all the quarantine nonsense, there's no point him even considering any back and forth travel.

Either way, he will be missed!

In a normal year yes.  But being what it is maybe Ulster are saving on wages and he can go home sooner.

Maybe he would have liked to stay, but with his injury not going to heal in time to play for Ulster again, what is the point in the Ulster physio and fitness coaches investing their time in him any more?

Its better for the player and Ulster, to let him move early and let the Bulls team set out his recovery and training schedule and work with him to get him back playing let them put that time in.

So while he may have liked to stay, but it is in Ulsters interest to let him move early to save on wages, it's in the players interest to move early to get fully invested treatment, and in the Bulls intrest to start working with a player sooner and to make thier own accessment and recovery plans for him earlier than expected.

Brendan wrote:What are your thoughts on the Rainbow Cup Fixtures before the Challange Cup semi.

I see a few choices (sure there are more)

1. Full strenght going 100% and be battle hardened
2. Play full team but use it as a run out pulling of key players at halftime/50mins
3. Play combos some starting some bench with players in need of time starting.

For the Connacht game there'd need to be a full strength side, Leicester have 2 matches in the run in to the semi-final and without the rainbow cup game we'd be going in a little cold and rusty.
For the other games it depends on how we fare against the Tigers but I'd like to see the youngsters getting a good bit of exposure at least.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Brendan wrote:What are your thoughts on the Rainbow Cup Fixtures before the Challange Cup semi.

I see a few choices (sure there are more)

1. Full strenght going 100% and be battle hardened
2. Play full team but use it as a run out pulling of key players at halftime/50mins
3. Play combos some starting some bench with players in need of time starting.

For the Connacht game there'd need to be a full strength side, Leicester have 2 matches in the run in to the semi-final and without the rainbow cup game we'd be going in a little cold and rusty.
For the other games it depends on how we fare against the Tigers but I'd like to see the youngsters getting a good bit of exposure at least.

Its will be interesting to see how the break is managed of giving young kids a go while keeping players fit hopefully for a Challange Cup Final.

I think Ulster are now getting to the point where they at least approach all games in a Leinsteresque mindset. I don’t think we will see Ulster send obvious B-teams anymore. We have probably the strongest squad in years (in terms of backups in must positions). I think we will rotate a little, but I don’t think McFarland or the team have this A-team/B-team mindset any more. Fight for every inch mentality also becoming, ‘fight for every match’. Maybe?

Zebo returning is good news for Munster.
Having part of his contract funded by the IRFU is very nice for Munster, but it does strike me of favouritism.
Are the IRFU part funding any of Ulster's non central contract players?
Allowing Munster an extra NIQ lock/backroom seamed generous, to pay part of a non centrally contracted players wage seams double generous.

Is this more Munster favouritism, it certainly appears to be getting more difficult to argue they are getting preferencial treatment, or is it just jealously?

Kingshu wrote:Zebo returning is good news for Munster.
Having part of his contract funded by the IRFU is very nice for Munster, but it does strike me of favouritism.
Are the IRFU part funding any of Ulster's non central contract players?
Allowing Munster an extra NIQ lock/backroom seamed generous, to pay part of a non centrally contracted players wage seams double generous.

Is this more Munster favouritism, it certainly appears to be getting more difficult to argue they are getting preferencial treatment, or is it just jealously?

I don't think it's jealousy at all, there does seem to be a disparity in the treatment of Ulster and Munster. Leinster are their own beast with their conveyor belt of talent etc but Ulster and Munster are closer in their component parts so you'd think there'd be a level playing field in terms of treatment. I don't feel that there is but we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, who's got the hand out or who's refusing to look externally etc.

Was listening to the Round Up podcast and they were chatting about Cooney's future after being over looked by Ireland.
They rightly stated that it's a short career, and that the money exists outside of the Pro14.
I just wonder though... for Cooney in particular, should Ulster be considering a salary in and around the amount we'd typical offer to our bigger name NIQs?

IRFU maybe don't rate him, but surely Ulster do. And it may be the weakest position of our 15 in terms of fall off in quality to the backup players.

Should we break the bank to keep Cooney?

clivemcl wrote:Was listening to the Round Up podcast and they were chatting about Cooney's future after being over looked by Ireland.
They rightly stated that it's a short career, and that the money exists outside of the Pro14.
I just wonder though... for Cooney in particular, should Ulster be considering a salary in and around the amount we'd typical offer to our bigger name NIQs?

IRFU maybe don't rate him, but surely Ulster do. And it may be the weakest position of our 15 in terms of fall off in quality to the backup players.

Should we break the bank to keep Cooney?

Yes, absolutely, without doubt after the loss of Mr Coetzee to wave goodbye to Cooney would be too much for the squad / gameplan to cope with. I'd fully expect Ulster to receive the same kind of support that Munster get (just to harp on a little more) as even though he may not be an integral part of the IRFU's plans he's utterly vital to Ulster's. If he was to go I'd be expecting a marquee signing but wouldn't be holding my breath by any means.

I am sure Cooney would command a big price in France. Somewhere like La Rochelle with a bit of a dodge goal kicker. Ulster should do all they can to keep him as from the outside he seems to be the heartbeat of the team and Ulster seem to reflect how he is doing on the day

Regards Zebo it does show favouritism. It doesn't make great sense from an IRFU point of view as the WC might be to far for him. He isn't going to be young at 33.5 at the next WC. Can't see him playing 15 over Keenan, maybe wing.

Only reason I can see the IRFU bringing him home is to mentor players like Keenan and Stockdale and also help bring through some of the young back 3s in Munster.

clivemcl wrote:Was listening to the Round Up podcast and they were chatting about Cooney's future after being over looked by Ireland.
They rightly stated that it's a short career, and that the money exists outside of the Pro14.
I just wonder though... for Cooney in particular, should Ulster be considering a salary in and around the amount we'd typical offer to our bigger name NIQs?

IRFU maybe don't rate him, but surely Ulster do. And it may be the weakest position of our 15 in terms of fall off in quality to the backup players.

Should we break the bank to keep Cooney?

After Zebos news I would expect the IRFU to help with his wages, but that is very unlikely to happen.

What will happen is Nuficoa will not sanction Ulster offering a big contract to Cooney, as he isn't in the Ireland picture so it's better he moves on to France from his point of view.

Nuficoa will think he can encourage one of JGP, McGrath, Marimon or Blade to move to Ulster and be 1st choice SH.

What will happen is Cooney will leave, none of the 4 will want to move to Ulster and we will end up with Nick McCarthy.

Kingshu wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Was listening to the Round Up podcast and they were chatting about Cooney's future after being over looked by Ireland.
They rightly stated that it's a short career, and that the money exists outside of the Pro14.
I just wonder though... for Cooney in particular, should Ulster be considering a salary in and around the amount we'd typical offer to our bigger name NIQs?

IRFU maybe don't rate him, but surely Ulster do. And it may be the weakest position of our 15 in terms of fall off in quality to the backup players.

Should we break the bank to keep Cooney?

After Zebos news I would expect the IRFU to help with his wages, but that is very unlikely to happen.

What will happen is Nuficoa will not sanction Ulster offering a big contract to Cooney, as he isn't in the Ireland picture so it's better he moves on to France from his point of view.

Nuficoa will think he can encourage one of JGP, McGrath, Marimon or Blade to move to Ulster and be 1st choice SH.

What will happen is Cooney will leave, none of the 4 will want to move to Ulster and we will end up with Nick McCarthy.

Don't, just don't, that's tempting a fate that's all too likely.
John's got a good few very valid years ahead of him and will be vital for Ulster and a very useful bit of backup for Ireland (even if he should really be 1st or 2nd choice) so to let him go would be nuts from every point of view. It's still the likely outcome going if past form's anything to go by.

As expected Izuchukwu gets an upgraded contract - one year in development, followed by 1 year on a full contract.
Just gutted for the lad re his ACL.
He is young he will recover quickly

Also Bradley Roberts gets a one year contract - well deserved

Contract wise we have:

2022 (19)

Billy Burns, John Cooney, Tom O’Toole, Stuart McCloskey, Jack McGrath, Marty Moore, Matthew Rea, Sean Reidy, Dave Shanahan,
Leone Nakarawa, Angus Curtis, Dave O'Connor, Craig Gilroy, Greg Jones, Marcus Rea, James Hume, Eric O'Sullivan, Bradley Roberts, Ross Kane


2023 (25)

Will Addison, Jordi Murphy, Rob Lyttle, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale (cc) Luke Marshall, Alan O’Connor, Robert Baloucoune,
(Aaron Sexton), John Andrew, (Nathan Doak), Iain Henderson (cc), Rob Herring, Kieran Treadwell, Ian Madigan, Sam Carter,
Nick Timoney, Gareth Milasinovich, Michael Lowry, (Tom Stewart), (Callum Reid), (Ethan McIlroy) , Andrew Warwick, David McCann, (Cormac Izuchukwu)

Those with() around there names have a Year Development contract automatically followed by a 1 year full contract

Breaking it down for 2021/22:

2 - Central Contracts
36 - Ulster Contracts
6 - Development Contracts

Some comments on a decent performance at Franklin Garden.

Baloucoune showed again he is a class act.
Not least he went up for high balls against Biggar three times and bested him every time.
I have never seen Biggar repeatedly beaten like that - he is the best in the world at gathering highballs.

McCloskey counter rucking was exceptional - like another backrower.
I am at a total loss as to why Aki and Farrell are considered better.
McCloskey is second only to Henshaw, at 12, in my book.

Timoney has grown significantly as the season has worn on.
Murphy is relishing the captaincy - well deserved MOTM.

O'Connor again shows his outstanding work rate.
He is no Ryan, or Henderson or Beirne but he is as good a 2nd row,
as Baird (I totally except Baird has the potential to move to a higher level) and Dillane.
He is definitely better than Kleyn or Roux who both have bulk but poor handling skills.

Is that it Geoff, I as looking forward to your views (or possible rant) on the IRFU granting Munster another NIQ signing and on them part funding Zebos contract.

I was hoping that you were going to tell us we have an exciting NIQ player, part funded by the IRFU lined up. Or that it was just balancing things out as the IRFU had part funding Moores contract to return from England.

I have long given up expecting Ulster to be treated the same as Munster.

We are the third province in Dublin's eyes - get used to it.
The Leinster wage bill is Millions more than ours and Munster seem to have a much freer rein in signing both NIQ and Project players than we do.

Having said that if Cooney left we would be able to demand and get a top quality 9.
After next summer Sam Carter is the only NIQ, Project or Residency qualified player signed up.