England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Rum sort of field for Nadeem to Sibley...two short covers ???

Not noted for getting caught there , is he ? Strange theory...

100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Big last fifty minutes ...England will hope their seamers will now justify the strange tactical choices.

Get two or three tonight and they'll be laughing. Otherwise might be some hard work tomorrow...

Whatever Rohit/Gill/Pant can survive is a bonus for India. The bulk of the rearguard action has to fall on Pujara/Kohli/Rahane.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Olly and all - do you think Pope was playing to his own different game plan or that the team's tactics purposely changed once he was out? A remarkable contrast in approach.

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

I think that is fair - but I also think just because 100 overs should be enough, there is no reason to settle for that if you have the opportunity to get more!

Duty281 wrote:Whatever Rohit/Gill/Pant can survive is a bonus for India. The bulk of the rearguard action has to fall on Pujara/Kohli/Rahane.

If and it's a big if Pujara is out within 100 balls I would expect England to win comfortably.

Very evenly poised game with all 2 results a definite possibility. Cracking match.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Yeah it should be enough. Just seems a little odd to have basically given up maybe ten overs for nothing. And the peculiar sight of Buttler and Bess pottering around for half an hour or so seemingly just to eat up time...

Ah well. Into the action now. Archer and Leach opening up ...Jimmy saving his energy for tomorrow?

Worth a try . Ashwin did well with the new ball earlier today.

To be honest, I think the ball that got Root out is the key - if the seamers are getting some variable bounce and movement, as well as the spinners getting it hopping and turning, there will be no easy sessions for the batsmen.

100 overs SHOULD be enough to take 10 wickets on that track, and 400+ should be out of reach. If England don't press home the win here, it will mean either a poor bowling effort or a great batting one.

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Olly and all - do you think Pope was playing to his own different game plan or that the team's tactics purposely changed once he was out? A remarkable contrast in approach.

I think they must have changed . (although Bess charged out and lofted a drive first ball , did he not ? Before settling right down) Can only assume they were so set on the time of closing that runs became secondary to survival.

Or maybe someone was reading up on the Pickle Theory

Think I'd prefer Archer to target the stumps ... Although either of these two might flash at one , I guess.

Rohit doesn't mind him dropping short , it seems

Not the best start by England.

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Olly and all - do you think Pope was playing to his own different game plan or that the team's tactics purposely changed once he was out? A remarkable contrast in approach.

I think they must have changed . (although Bess charged out and lofted a drive first ball , did he not ? Before settling right down) Can only assume they were so set on the time of closing that runs became secondary to survival.  

Or maybe someone was reading up on the Pickle Theory

Ha! If I'm ever allowed back in the Oval, I'll try to talk to Jonny Barran about introducing the Fear of the Pickle Theory Theory. So worried about collapsing and throwing away a good lead that you unnecessarily soak up overs allowing the opposition to escape with a draw.

How did England take that wicket? Commentary assured me they were flat...

What a ball from Leach. Root's captaincy vindicated there.

Leach does the business ! Beautiful piece of bowling , Rohit gone...

One down , nine to go.

Here comes The Wall. Wouldn't England love to get him tonight .

guildfordbat wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:100 overs really should be enough to bowl a side out fifth day on a turning pitch. If they dont its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.

Agree - seem to be in the minority...but I think they've done well...

Olly and all - do you think Pope was playing to his own different game plan or that the team's tactics purposely changed once he was out? A remarkable contrast in approach.

It seemed a case of the tactics changing once the partnership was broken. Perhaps I'm reading too much into things. As Goose says 105 overs should be plenty...

An absolute beauty from Leach to get the first wicket. That's a perfect line and length on this wicket.

alfie wrote:Leach does the business ! Beautiful piece of bowling , Rohit gone...

One down , nine to go.

Here comes The Wall. Wouldn't England love to get him tonight .

Get him tonight, win the game tonight.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:How did England take that wicket? Commentary assured me they were flat...

Well in truth it all did look a bit tame until Jack produced that bit of magic. All perception , I guess ...wonderful the difference a wicket makes !

Anderson now . Sensible , Archer wasn't really quite "on" in that spell. Seems it will be pace one end and spin the other. Fair enough plan for this evening I think.

I do hope Stokes is up for a spell tomorrow, if required. He has a habit of making things happen. But I do think Leach will be the key man .

alfie wrote:I do hope Stokes is up for a spell tomorrow, if required. He has a habit of making things happen.

Yes, the Newlands test in early 2020, where Stokes provided the final push for an England win, looms large in the memory.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:Leach does the business ! Beautiful piece of bowling , Rohit gone...

One down , nine to go.

Here comes The Wall. Wouldn't England love to get him tonight .

Get him tonight, win the game tonight.

Pujara is one of the four best players i've seen in this type of situation; Chanderpaul, Dravid and Collingwood being the others.

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:How did England take that wicket? Commentary assured me they were flat...

Well in truth it all did look a bit tame until Jack produced that bit of magic. All perception , I guess ...wonderful the difference a wicket makes !

I think the comms have been talking out their arse for about two days now. Knight and Butcher never bloody shut up

Commentary hasn't been the best, Butcher seemed ok to start with but been downhill since then while Gavaskar never answers a bloody question.

Don't think England have ever declared without calls to have done it an hour earlier.

A lot of work still to do, pitch should be obliging but can Bess/Leach answer the bell.

I think India will be happy enough with that effort today. Lasted longer than expected with the bat, Root's ultra-conservative declaration meant they only had to face 13 overs at the end, rather than 20 or so, and they're only one down at stumps. And the one they've lost is never the type of player to lead a last stand.

I think the draw is about a 60-40 favourite going into tomorrow. Not considering the Indian win as a possibility, but maybe I should given the bizarre happenings of late! All set for a great last day of cricket.

The Leach ball to get Rohit was an absolute beauty - left arm round, bit of in drift to pitch middle, spins back and clips off stump. Shades of Warne to Gatting, not least in how Rohit moved his front foot slightly to leg as the ball drifted, ending up playing straight down the wrong line.

Would have liked another before the close, but India got through with no major concerns. Run rate has dropped from an early flurry of runs, so I think India will be in survival mode tomorrow. Would like to see a bit more attacking in the field placing - gulley for Leach and leg slip or leg gulley for Bess to the right handers.

Root was caught between leaving enuf overs to bowl India out vs not leaving enuf overs that they can chase down.

And I think he might have blocked the chase-down scenario...but will fall just a little bit short of time to bowl India out....is my read
India 6 down at close tomm

The ball does alarming things for spinners only and only when hard and new for about 10 overs...
So somewhere after tea Eng should have the second new ball tomm.....and they should have prised out atleast 5 wickets by then in total.

For Ind to have an outside chance at the miracle scenario...India should NOT lose more than 1 wicket in morning session that should not be the wicket of Gill
Gill's gotta get a hundred and a Daddy hundred for India to have a chance of winning


On Eng's innings..Kohli managed to get the wickets...but didn't control Eng as much as he should have. He is a profligate captain...gambles too much for taking wickets.

1- leaked too many runs for not having boundary rides at deep fine leg, 2rd man and sweeper all the time.

2- Erred significantly by not bowling many more overs of Sundar....and gave too many to Nadeem

Kohli ended up leaking 50 runs too many as a consequence.

Rohit's dismissal looks stunning as always is the case of a clean bowled of RHB by any bowlers taking the ball away does......BUT in fact Rohit should have stayed in crease at his normal stance or gone back...instead of playing so far forward.

An India win on that surface on day 5 would need a miracle - throwing the bat will work for a while but will cost wickets far too regularly. I actually have it more like 60% England win, 40% draw. Yes, India are generally good players of spin, but there are limits to what even the best players can do, plus there has been some reverse swing and inconsistent bounce for the seamers.

I think it'll be the typical 4th innings, where at times there'll be a cluster of wickets and then a solid partnership or two, before an eventual subsiding.

Most things have gone England's way this match - only real negatives were Archer dropping Sundar yesterday evening (different game if you knock 75 of India's first innings total) and the odd last hour of our innings today.

Setup for what should be a great final day tomorrow - four very good days for England so far...lets hope they have a 5th tomorrow.

Big day for Leach, you'd think he's going to have to do the majority of the damage to the bulk of the Indian batting

At the risk of being a boken recordif england can't take 9 wickets on day 5 of a test its not the lack of a declaration thats the problem.


Its always possible India will do something absurd but should be in the bag.

If India lose an early wicket, i would not be surprised to see them bump Pant up the order to go for it. If he gets out then i feel India will close up shop and block the day out.

eirebilly wrote:If India lose an early wicket, i would not be surprised to see them bump Pant up the order to go for it. If he gets out then i feel India will close up shop and block the day out.

If you were going to go for it you'd keep the worlds greatest ever 50 overs player at 4.

India have a lot of very good bats...but it's a day five pitch which is now certainly producing a fair few balls which keep low or turn quite sharply.
And consider : first three days yielded a total of 16 wickets. Fifteen fell today . And of those , only Pope and Buttler actually got out playing reckless shots ; the other 13 were got out by good bowling - albeit of few of them were rabbits. You'd think 90 overs should be enough to take nine tomorrow.

No guarantees. But I'd have an England win as favourite . Narrowly.

Still think they could have pressed on a bit more intently and had maybe another eight overs at India ; but it may not have made any difference. We will see .

alfie wrote:India have a lot of very good bats...but it's a day five pitch which is now certainly producing a fair few balls which keep low or turn quite sharply.
And consider : first three days yielded a total of 16 wickets. Fifteen fell today . And of those , only Pope and Buttler actually got out playing reckless shots ; the other 13 were got out by good bowling - albeit of few of them were rabbits. You'd think 90 overs should be enough to take nine tomorrow.

No guarantees. But I'd have an England win as favourite . Narrowly.

Still think they could have pressed on a bit more intently and had maybe another eight overs at India ; but it may not have made any difference.  We will see .

As of now :
-I would put it as draw 50%
-Eng win 49%
-Indian win 1%
-If India lose only 1 wicket in first session and that of Gill..Indian win stands at 3%
-If India lose only 1 wicket in first session and that of Pujara..Indian win stands at 7%

and from there we can increase or decrease the win-loss-draw percentages depending on first session pans out

alfie wrote:India have a lot of very good bats...but it's a day five pitch which is now certainly producing a fair few balls which keep low or turn quite sharply.
And consider : first three days yielded a total of 16 wickets. Fifteen fell today . And of those , only Pope and Buttler actually got out playing reckless shots ; the other 13 were got out by good bowling - albeit of few of them were rabbits. You'd think 90 overs should be enough to take nine tomorrow.

No guarantees. But I'd have an England win as favourite . Narrowly.

Still think they could have pressed on a bit more intently and had maybe another eight overs at India ; but it may not have made any difference.  We will see .

Yep, I would go along with that. I just hope it's my ingrained England pessimism holding me back from feeling more confident.

Declarations nearly always come too late for some pundits/keyboard warriors.

Having battled so hard over four days, Root was never going to give India too much of a sniff, especially as this is the first Test of the series.

If any side could have chased down, say, 370-380 in something like 120 overs it was India. As it is, it's a huge ask to get a record fourth innings total, with nearly all the runs having to be made on the last day.

Now if England had been one down in the series with only this Test left to play then there probably would - should - have been a declaration.

Plenty of pluses to take for England even if this ends in a draw.

I think my only gripe with the non-declaration is that, with the players batting/still to bat, they could have come out and opened their shoulders a bit more.

They could have still put the game out of touch more quickly, and given themselves more time.

Ultimately I don't think they were looking at runs, they were looking at overs, but they are far more qualified (and confident that Somerset can take the final 9 wickets....!) to make that call than me!!

sirfredperry wrote:Declarations nearly always come too late for some pundits/keyboard warriors.

Having battled so hard over four days, Root was never going to give India too much of a sniff, especially as this is the first Test of the series.

If any side could have chased down, say, 370-380 in something like 120 overs it was India. As it is, it's a huge ask to get a record fourth innings total, with nearly all the runs having to be made on the last day.

Now if England had been one down in the series with only this Test left to play then there probably would - should - have been a declaration.

Plenty of pluses to take for England even if this ends in a draw.

Much easier to be bold when you have no skin in the game.

Agree with your second paragraph - England were always going to put the game (apparently) beyond India before declaring, and as you say 370 in 120 overs isn't really, especially given recent run chases... India got close enough in the first innings to make England's decision difficult, whereas if Archer had caught Sundar and the tail crumbled in the first half hour this morning, England would have had more flexibility with the target / declaration decision

Despite Gabba, Despite Pant, very much England's game not to win. Root certainly seemed to have shut the India chase option by batting in so late. But even if they had played their normal game, possibly a target higher than this could have been set, 430-440, and given themselves more overs.
As of now, the last hour declaration has given India a chance, to try and salvage a draw after being outplayed for 8 out of the first 9 sessions. They didn't fall apart completely with the ball even in the first innings, and showed fight with the bat at times. They were good with the ball in the England second innings. But England really had the wood over them in this test match so far, would be something if India get out of jail tomorrow. Not beyond them, but very difficult. They'd hope Pujara will stick around and the rest can bat around him. Hope young Gill puts together a big innings and we wouldn't require anyone beyond Washington.

sirfredperry wrote:Declarations nearly always come too late for some pundits/keyboard warriors.

Having battled so hard over four days, Root was never going to give India too much of a sniff, especially as this is the first Test of the series.

If any side could have chased down, say, 370-380 in something like 120 overs it was India. As it is, it's a huge ask to get a record fourth innings total, with nearly all the runs having to be made on the last day.

Now if England had been one down in the series with only this Test left to play then there probably would - should - have been a declaration.

Plenty of pluses to take for England even if this ends in a draw.

If Sir Fred is for the Defence, I present Michael Vaughan for the Prosecution:
''If England are sat in that dressing room in 24 hours' time and it's 0-0, I don't think they'll come back from that.''

Like Vaughan, I feel we should have been bolder. Rather than looking at this Test as the first in the series and so not wanting to lose it, I have doubts as to how often we'll be in such a dominant position and so would have preferred the emphasis being on us having sufficient time to win it.

Hopefully, such discussion will be academic following an England victory at whatever time but, if not, only fair to flag my unease now rather than after the event.

guildfordbat wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:Declarations nearly always come too late for some pundits/keyboard warriors.

Having battled so hard over four days, Root was never going to give India too much of a sniff, especially as this is the first Test of the series.

If any side could have chased down, say, 370-380 in something like 120 overs it was India. As it is, it's a huge ask to get a record fourth innings total, with nearly all the runs having to be made on the last day.

Now if England had been one down in the series with only this Test left to play then there probably would - should - have been a declaration.

Plenty of pluses to take for England even if this ends in a draw.

If Sir Fred is for the Defence, I present Michael Vaughan for the Prosecution:
''If England are sat in that dressing room in 24 hours' time and it's 0-0, I don't think they'll come back from that.''

Like Vaughan, I feel we should have been bolder. Rather than looking at this Test as the first in the series and so not wanting to lose it, I have doubts as to how often we'll be in such a dominant position and so would have preferred the emphasis being on us having sufficient time to win it.

Hopefully, such discussion will be academic following an England victory at whatever time but, if not, only fair to flag my unease now rather than after the event.

The length of time batted was less a frustration for me, more the aimlessness of it for a time. Not even looking to pick off singles that were on offer. Buttler not farming strike etc. For about an hour the run rate was just under 2 I think. It just seemed pretty placid in a dominant situation.

England feeling that just over 100 overs is enough doesn't bother me. Getting 20ish overs with the second new ball if needed whilst still having a relatively new ball for the morning seems pretty good tactics.

Pushing slightly harder on the RR would allow even more attacking fields though with even less concern of the over India's run rate. I certainly felt that given the situation England could have had more men around the bat to Leach and Bess in that burst yesterday evening for instance.

Hopefully it all doesn't matter as you say Guildford and England can wrap up a deserved victory having been in-front since day 1 and playing some excellent cricket. Whilst that slightly meandering hour frustrated me it hasn't distracted me from an impressive performance thus far in the Test.

It would almost certainly have a seriously deflating effect on England if they were to miss out on a win in a game they have dominated for four days.  Sure they did not want to risk throwing away the game - due respect to the excellent Indian line-up who are ready to chase practically anything - so I didn't expect , or want , an early "carrot dangling" declaration. The 420 target is roughly what I was looking for.

However the thing that bemused me was the variable batting approach . If they were hell bent on only bowling for a hour , why did Root , and particularly Pope , go so hard in attacking , despite the early loss of wickets : risky , no ?  Could have taken it more carefully and set up for a late charge - the usual third innings tactic. And then the often designated late order hitter , Buttler , was instead tasked with just knocking it around in company with Bess : almost as if they didn't want to get the lead too high too quickly ! I suppose it really didn't matter as they appear to have got to the position they wanted anyway - just in a rather illogical manner. Whether the effect on Indian morale would have been any different had the innings started slower and ended in a hail of sixes and a declaration is debateable but it might have been more exciting

More to the point : was the plan to bowl just thirteen overs and start the last day with a hard(ish) ball a good one ? Or should they have looked for , say , 15 more runs ten overs earlier ? Guess the proof will be in the result.

It does seem a bit over-analytical : generally the longer you can give yourself to bowl a team out the better, surely ? But it may be they feel that the effects of tiredness on the bowlers was likely to mean if they couldn't finish the job in about 100 overs they probably wouldn't be able to in 120.  And the knock on effect for the next game also a concern.  As I say , all a bit modern for me - I prefer to keep it simple . But as long as they get the job done I will not complain.

Right, 90 overs to get Pujara nine wickets and land a sixth away test win in a row.

Come on, England!

Not the best first over from Leach. Length a bit dodgy and he joined the no ball club. Gill not about to allow him to settle - he'd doubtless prefer to keep the close fielders away.

Archer the other end : suspect he might be a bit more dangerous this morning after a night's rest. Target the stumps and I reckon the pace men might get some results today.

I honestly would have opened the bowling with Anderson and Leach/Bess with Archer coming on after a few.

2 catchers for Leach at the minute. A slip and short leg. I can't help but feel the situation calls for more pressure than that.

Promising signs for Leach early on...

One has kept very low , and that last one really jumped , turned and beat everyone... Scorebook just says four byes but that ball will have maybe started some nervousness in the Indian dressing room. Certainly England will be encouraged.

Oh very good Leach

That's the one they wanted ! Pujara could do nothing with that ... And Stokes doesn't drop those.

Leach removes a large brick from the wall...

The big'un!

Leach finds that little extra bounce and turn. The game is now at England's mercy.