England's Winter of Cricket 2020/21

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Knight thinks they won't enforce the follow on. I'm not so sure.

Still two wickets needed anyway. 22 runs.

As I say I don't mind spinning pitches. I do think this one was a bit extreme : had England batted first I doubt they'd have made 329 ; but they might have made 220 and that would probably have made them favourites.
But essentially I agree :India are in this position because they've bowled a lot better and three or four batsmen played innings that England have not come near to matching. Credit where it is due...

Well day one was certainly one on which just about everything that could go wrong for England , did just that. Even winning the toss rather backfired.
Wrong team selected : hardly in doubt as whatever flaws Bess may have he would surely be more use here than Broad is going to prove. I fear the decision to axe Bess so publicly in favour of the Moeen experiment for match two has had ongoing consequences : they didn't feel confident in reversing course so quickly.
Awful batting : Crawley was (slightly surprisingly after his poor Sri Lankan efforts) very good ; perhaps confirming there was essentially not much wrong with the pitch. But the rest either didn't get started at all or got basically paralysed until eventually being put out of their misery for very little. The total lack of real intent probably bothers me more than the failures : anyone can make a mistake and get out cheaply ; but if none of them can exert any pressure back on the bowlers on a basically good pitch I struggle to see how they can turn it around in the next innings - or indeed the next match. Hope I am overstating this and they are able to come back with a vastly improved effort second time around as the prospects are otherwise extremely depressing...
Rapid loss of focus in the field : Leach and Anderson really bowled very well. Two for Jack so far and Jimmy has been miserly (apart from being robbed of Kohli's scalp by an extraordinary drop from a normally excellent fielder) But the rest have been disappointing. Broad was understandably frustrated with his early near misses (and obviously felt like many of his teammates that the umpiring is not giving him a fair shake - a dangerous mindset to get into!) but he should be experienced enough not to let it rattle him. Archer got a wicket with a short ball but he and Stokes should probably check the stats on length/runs on this pitch and recalibrate accordingly. Root should certainly have bowled a couple of overs at least. Not sure why he lacks confidence in his own bowling : he has done quite well on the occasions he has bowled over these last few matches. Might need more encouragement from the coaching team ?

Can they get back in this match ? Well yes there is still scope to do so. In rough terms : keep India to 200 tops ; bat properly and get 250 in the third innings ; bowl India out in the fourth. All quite possible in isolation ; but you wouldn't be putting Geoff Boycott's house on any of them actually happening.

I am hoping they can at least fight back with the ball initially. Get early wickets and put some serious pressure on ; and then even with the Indian line-up going deeper in this match dismissing them for an under par total is feasible. Starting the second innings with at least a modicum of hope would be something... All credit to India : but I really do not want to be watching one of those 112 - 350 - 125 massacres play out.

JDizzle wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

JDizzle wrote:  I mean, I totally disagree with the contention that there was no more England could do with the bat! If you are rolled for 112 in the first innings, there is always more you can do with the bat. Unless you are playing on the pitch England played the Windies on in the abandoned Test in the 90s.

Maybe they could have done 120....but equally likely done 99
It's a combination of cricketing skill level and mental state....both are low
I already commented in the last game.....this exhibition of frustration & self pity is a slippery downward and irreversible slope.

Given the skill they have demonstrated & their state of mind.....I again see them in the 100-130 ish total in second inning also....and that would be 4 innings in a row

Na, we aren’t going to agree on this one. There is no way the best England could do from being 74-2 was make 120! That is saying the best they could do is add 46-8 -  and that is the best they could do!

That 74-2 was an aberration when we look back.
Had Kohli opened with spinners (as he most likely will in 2nd inning),......Eng may have struggled to cross 100
From the time both spinners started bowling in tandem ( 16th over) Eng crumbled to Powder

16 over 55-2 to 49th over all out for 112
i.e 33 overs of spin in tandem and and 57-8

England should, could have done better with the bat. The 2 Indian spinners did a great job on a good pitch. England's skill levels are not the best in playing spin. But they can be better than this. But I agree with KPF, think along with the skill levels, the mental state seems to have contributed to the predicament. Stokes and Pope have significant technical issues in playing spin. But Stokes has shown that he can fight his way around these issues from time to time. First thing needed for that is to stay positive, not just hope against hope that he can score a few before he gets out. He did admit that his approach in the first test was something on those lines even on a flat track. Stokes should trust his game a little bit more, and show intent in both attack and defense.
As for Pope, thing he does need significant work on his footwork, seems to be a bit all over the place at the moment.

Noticed Guildford's comment on Foakes yesterday, that Buttler may not have played the way Foakes did... I am not sure though, that Buttler's spin game is as good as that of Foakes to have managed to stay out there as long as he did. Buttler can murder pretty much any type of bowling in limited overs, and he can play spin well in England. But doing that and playing in spinning conditions are very different. Foakes, even in this disastr of an innings, did look more organized in playing spin than most, even including Root for that matter. Root does have the game against spin, Stoke's needs adjustments mental as well as technical. But Foakes I feel, needs to bat a position up. He is not stroke less, but is not the best option to bat along with the lower order at this stage of the game. Buttler surely would be a better bet in that regard, but to be able to make that count, he has to first survive and then flourish and I am not sure he would be better than Foakes to do the former.

msp83 wrote:. Stokes and Pope have significant technical issues in playing spin.

Apt observation.
Pope looked clueless to the extent of looking ugly ...hop skip dancing like cat on hot tin roof.
Stokes ...too living on the reputation of old days.....comes-in and goes out in no time to spinners.
Stokes though you are right...can sort his game out....it's not an organic skill problem, but mental cobwebs

msp83 wrote:Noticed Guildford's comment on Foakes yesterday, that Buttler may not have played the way Foakes did... I am not sure though, that Buttler's spin game is as good as that of Foakes to have managed to stay out there as long as he did. Buttler can murder pretty much any type of bowling in limited overs, and he can play spin well in England. But doing that and playing in spinning conditions are very different. Foakes, even in this disastr of an innings, did look more organized in playing spin than most, even including Root for that matter. Root does have the game against spin, Stoke's needs adjustments mental as well as technical. But Foakes I feel, needs to bat a position up. He is not stroke less, but is not the best option to bat along with the lower order at this stage of the game. Buttler surely would be a better bet in that regard, but to be able to make that count, he has to first survive and then flourish and I am not sure he would be better than Foakes to do the former.

Thanks for your comments, msp. As I'm sure you appreciate, I was raising this as a question rather than asserting Buttler would definitely have done better. I did even acknowledge that he (Buttler) might have been skittled first ball. Furthermore, a large part of Foakes' work still needs to be carried out behind the stumps.

Out now to get a paper and some teasing from my Indian newsagent. Back for the start.

Hoping beyond hope that Swann has gone down with food poisoning over night.

guildfordbat wrote:

Thanks for your comments, msp. As I'm sure you appreciate, I was raising this as a question rather than asserting Buttler would definitely have done better. I did even acknowledge that he (Buttler) might have been skittled first ball. Furthermore, a large part of Foakes' work still needs to be carried out behind the stumps.

Not sure there's much point in him bothering, the third umpire will just give it not out.

Not sure why comms are surprised there is a deep cover...England can't afford for Rohit to smash a few boundaries, they don't have 570 on the board like in the first test!

alfie wrote:Well day one was certainly one on which just about everything that could go wrong for England , did just that. Even winning the toss rather backfired.
Wrong team selected : hardly in doubt as whatever flaws Bess may have he would surely be more use here than Broad is going to prove. I fear the decision to axe Bess so publicly in favour of the Moeen experiment for match two has had ongoing consequences : they didn't feel confident in reversing course so quickly.
Awful batting : Crawley was (slightly surprisingly after his poor Sri Lankan efforts) very good ; perhaps confirming there was essentially not much wrong with the pitch. But the rest either didn't get started at all or got basically paralysed until eventually being put out of their misery for very little. The total lack of real intent probably bothers me more than the failures : anyone can make a mistake and get out cheaply ; but if none of them can exert any pressure back on the bowlers on a basically good pitch I struggle to see how they can turn it around in the next innings - or indeed the next match. Hope I am overstating this and they are able to come back with a vastly improved effort second time around as the prospects are otherwise extremely depressing...
Rapid loss of focus in the field : Leach and Anderson really bowled very well. Two for Jack so far and Jimmy has been miserly (apart from being robbed of Kohli's scalp by an extraordinary drop from a normally excellent fielder) But the rest have been disappointing. Broad was understandably frustrated with his early near misses (and obviously felt like many of his teammates that the umpiring is not giving him a fair shake - a dangerous mindset to get into!) but he should be experienced enough not to let it rattle him. Archer got a wicket with a short ball but he and Stokes should probably check the stats on length/runs on this pitch and recalibrate accordingly.  Root should certainly have bowled a couple of overs at least. Not sure why he lacks confidence in his own bowling : he has done quite well on the occasions he has bowled over these last few matches. Might need more encouragement from the coaching team ?

Can they get back in this match ?  Well yes there is still scope to do so. In rough terms : keep India to 200 tops ; bat properly and get 250 in the third innings ; bowl India out in the fourth. All quite possible in isolation ; but you wouldn't be putting Geoff Boycott's house on any of them actually happening.

I am hoping they can at least fight back with the ball initially. Get early wickets and put some serious pressure on ; and then even with the Indian line-up going deeper in this match dismissing them for an under par total is feasible. Starting the second innings with at least a modicum of hope would be something... All credit to India  : but I really do not want to be watching one of those 112 - 350 - 125 massacres play out.

Agree on the highlighted point Alfie, England unfortunately have done what I feared they would pre-test, and pre-determined their side based off the "night" element to the test...which is ultimately way way less important than the actual pitch.
Now ultimately, scoring 112 in your first dig, it doesn't really matter what bowling attack they have if you aren't scoring enough runs...but as we see Leach turn four in his first over past the bat, it is pretty clear they've judged it wrong.

Soul Requiem wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Thanks for your comments, msp. As I'm sure you appreciate, I was raising this as a question rather than asserting Buttler would definitely have done better. I did even acknowledge that he (Buttler) might have been skittled first ball. Furthermore, a large part of Foakes' work still needs to be carried out behind the stumps.

Not sure there's much point in him bothering, the third umpire will just give it not out.

I hope the England players are not going to be quite so focused on perceived umpiring injustices as you are , Soul ! Not going to help them at all : have to control what you can control and not fuss about the rest.

At least they've opened up today with the A Team. My fear is what will happen if the Anderson/Leach pairing doesn't get results early....Rohit could take the game away very quickly...

Edit : two fours off Jimmy's second over suggests he might do just that !

Rohit looking pretty ominous early on here

alfie wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

Thanks for your comments, msp. As I'm sure you appreciate, I was raising this as a question rather than asserting Buttler would definitely have done better. I did even acknowledge that he (Buttler) might have been skittled first ball. Furthermore, a large part of Foakes' work still needs to be carried out behind the stumps.

Not sure there's much point in him bothering, the third umpire will just give it not out.

I hope the England players are not going to be quite so focused on perceived umpiring injustices as you are , Soul ! Not going to help them at all : have to control what you can control and not fuss about the rest.

At least they've opened up today with the A Team. My fear is what will happen if the Anderson/Leach pairing doesn't get results early....Rohit could take the game away very quickly...

Edit : two fours off Jimmy's second over suggests he might do just that !

Perceived suggests there's an element of ambiguity which there isn't, you could tell by the reaction that the decisions have got to Root and co, understandably in my opinion. Being outplayed is one thing but not playing on a level playing field is another.

He's just gone for 4 but Leach is bowling nicely.

He definitely looks like the type of bowler that gets better the more overs he gets in. Sounds obvious but some bowlers can just turn up and do what they want without much game time but Leach looks like he needs the overs to get his technique and confidence up.

I hope England persist with him in the summer, even in home conditions. I hate going into any test in any country without a front line spinner.

With Woakes likely to be batting at 8 in the summer there is little need for Bess.

Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope
Foakes/Buttler
Woakes
Leach
Archer/Wood/Stone
Anderson/Broad

Now Rahane's guilty of not using his feet well. Strong start from Leach. England need to nip out Pant quickly, if they do they'll be into the weaker half of the batting order.

Leach removes Rahane...needed that.

Two destructive batsmen together now so next half hour might be lively...

Think that actually hit Rahane outside the line...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Think that actually hit Rahane outside the line...

Umpires call.

Interesting, it was only umpire's call. Looked plumb in real time.

Poor captaincy right away by Root, gifting Pant an easy single(s). Field in retreat before he even faced a ball!

Duty281 wrote:Interesting, it was only umpire's call. Looked plumb in real time.

Poor captaincy right away by Root, gifting Pant an easy single(s). Field in retreat before he even faced a ball!

Agree about Pant getting off the mark. The first run is the hardest for any batsman to score and the fielding side should never make it any easier.

Here's Swann. I'm off to the kitchen to make a bacon sandwich.

Hang on ....

Not any more ! Leach has done for Rohit this time...

Review , but this is stone dead . Jack is on fire !

Leach on fireeeee as he gets Rohit.

England right back in the game. Can they keep India's lead to below 100?

Reviewed but this is out, yes? Indeed it is.

alfie wrote:

Review , but this is stone dead .

I didn't think it was stone dead, I actually thought it had hit him outside the line on the live view.

Your eyes are clearly better than mine, alfie.

Leach finally showing what a quality bowler he is, he's got a lovely free flowing and simple action.

Washington demoted? Seems harsh.

This match may yet challenge the record for lbw wickets...

Some stats geek will surely have the details.

Five down - but in comes the century maker from last week

One more now would have England really buzzing. Anderson probably only has one more over in him ; so whoever takes over needs to keep the brakes on them , and allow Leach to keep pressing.

Roooooooot

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

alfie wrote:

Review , but this is stone dead .

I didn't think it was stone dead, I actually thought it had hit him outside the line on the live view.

Your eyes are clearly better than mine, alfie.

I actually thought it was deader than it was , Tino !

And now Joe a Root has brought himself on and what a master stroke ! First ball does for Pant

Game on ?

Root's golden arm gets the danger man.

That's why Root should always back himself, and that's why you don't need to pick Bess.

Keep 'em below 50, England.

Pant back in the pavilion courtesy of the golden arm of Root.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Still bemused why Root didn't bring himself on. Leach was causing way more problems than the seamers.

Maybe he didn't want to admit they had misread the pitch entirely.

Looks like you've got a better understanding of subcontinental conditions than any of the other posters on here.

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Still bemused why Root didn't bring himself on. Leach was causing way more problems than the seamers.

Maybe he didn't want to admit they had misread the pitch entirely.

Looks like you've got a better understanding of subcontinental conditions than any of the other posters on here.

Armchair captain, Galted.

Root can't bowl twenty overs ; but he is always a chance to get wickets and I reckon he generally under bowls himself. Thought he might have had a go last night : but happy that he's come up with a big wicket this morning.

Wonder how this clatter will affect the Indian bats' mindset ? Clearly Ashwin isn't going to poke about...

Only got the the live text on - but Root bowling himself as soon as Pant comes in means they are over thinking the off spin to left hand thing. He might be more effective vs them, but he is allowed to get right handers out too!

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

alfie wrote:

Review , but this is stone dead .

I didn't think it was stone dead, I actually thought it had hit him outside the line on the live view.

Your eyes are clearly better than mine, alfie.

I wondered similar, Tino. It was actually shown to be Umpire's Call on review. I think the original out decision on that and others today provide support to the views that things not going England's way yesterday were down to a mix of umpiring inexperience and mistakes together with an unlucky rub of the green rather than any blatant cheating - my view anyway. As mentioned during the second Test, I do feel though that the crowd (absent from the first Test) may intimidate the umpires (including the third umpire).

Good news - England spinners bowling well, and picking up wickets

Bad news - England are going to have to bat against Axar and Ashwin again...

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Still bemused why Root didn't bring himself on. Leach was causing way more problems than the seamers.

Maybe he didn't want to admit they had misread the pitch entirely.

Looks like you've got a better understanding of subcontinental conditions than any of the other posters on here.

Armchair captain, Galted.

Galts - you leave the boy Tino alone, he's doing good.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Still bemused why Root didn't bring himself on. Leach was causing way more problems than the seamers.

Maybe he didn't want to admit they had misread the pitch entirely.

Looks like you've got a better understanding of subcontinental conditions than any of the other posters on here.

Armchair captain, Galted.

Galts - you leave the boy Tino alone, he's doing good.

Root has another one with a beauty!

I've slipped into a dream-world where Root is the second coming of Murali. Very dreamy.

What a ball that was. Be ruthless, England. Keep yourselves in it.

Root the wrecker

That was a beauty ! Washington's stumps a-sundar ...

125/7 ...drinks . I might have a dram

Duty281 wrote:Washington demoted? Seems harsh.

Ashwin's ton last time influencing it, I guess.

Anyway, order justified as Root gets Washington for a duck.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Galted wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Still bemused why Root didn't bring himself on. Leach was causing way more problems than the seamers.

Maybe he didn't want to admit they had misread the pitch entirely.

Looks like you've got a better understanding of subcontinental conditions than any of the other posters on here.

Armchair captain, Galted.

Galts - you leave the boy Tino alone, he's doing good.

Haha, can't do much for his self-esteem that you assume I'm being sarcastic.

And again! Great catch as well.

Root has three wickets for nowt. That's a sharp-ish catch by Sibley (?).

Keep 'em below 30, England!

KP_fan wrote:

JDizzle wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

JDizzle wrote:  I mean, I totally disagree with the contention that there was no more England could do with the bat! If you are rolled for 112 in the first innings, there is always more you can do with the bat. Unless you are playing on the pitch England played the Windies on in the abandoned Test in the 90s.

Maybe they could have done 120....but equally likely done 99
It's a combination of cricketing skill level and mental state....both are low
I already commented in the last game.....this exhibition of frustration & self pity is a slippery downward and irreversible slope.

Given the skill they have demonstrated & their state of mind.....I again see them in the 100-130 ish total in second inning also....and that would be 4 innings in a row

Na, we aren’t going to agree on this one. There is no way the best England could do from being 74-2 was make 120! That is saying the best they could do is add 46-8 -  and that is the best they could do!

That 74-2 was an aberration when we look back.
Had Kohli opened with spinners (as he most likely will in 2nd inning),......Eng may have struggled to cross 100
From the time both spinners started bowling in tandem ( 16th over) Eng crumbled to Powder

16 over 55-2 to 49th over all out for 112
i.e 33 overs of spin in tandem and and 57-8

India’s 98-2 was an aberration when we look back, eh KPF?

If only England had opened with Root, India would have struggled to pass 50.

I am dreading England batting again on this though...

Soul Requiem wrote:Leach finally showing what a quality bowler he is, he's got a lovely free flowing and simple action.

Hi Soul - Forgive the pedantry but he does need to add greater consistency. No argument that he's bowled well yesterday and today.

guildfordbat wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

alfie wrote:

Review , but this is stone dead .

I didn't think it was stone dead, I actually thought it had hit him outside the line on the live view.

Your eyes are clearly better than mine, alfie.

I wondered similar, Tino. It was actually shown to be Umpire's Call on review. I think the original out decision on that and others today provide support  to the views that things not going England's way yesterday were down to a mix of umpiring inexperience and mistakes together with an unlucky rub of the green rather than any blatant cheating - my view anyway. As mentioned during the second Test, I do feel though that the crowd (absent from the first Test) may intimidate the umpires (including the third umpire).

Hi guildford...agree about the rub of the green comment. I don't believe there is anything sinister going on . My beef with the umpiring (TV calls ) is that they aren't checking as thoroughly as is normal - even if they are getting the correct decision , they should be sensitive about ensuring justice is seen to be done , after the one real fiasco in the previous match.

Never mind anyway : Joe (Murali) Root now has 3/0 ...

Crazy stuff.

What the hell is going on here?

Am I only the only one misreading this pitch, it's spinning but not to the extent of 240 runs for 18 wickets?