France v Scotland 6 Nations Sunday 28th February 2021

First topic message reminder :

France v Scotland
6 nations Championship
Stad de France
Paris

Sunday 28th February 2021
KO 15.00


We the clash of the Auld Alliance comes about in strange circumstances, in the middle of an epidemic, no crowds and the French players dropping like flies.

Make no mistake though, the French will still put out a very strong side and Paris has been a bit of a graveyard for many Scottish teams over the years, they will have to play with the levels of skill an, accuracy and composure they showed in the first game against England and not the disjointed performance we backed it up with against Wales, to have any chance at all and it may also come down to which French team turns up as well. Recently though, it has tended to be the better French team that has arrived.

a few changes in our team this week as well you would imagine. I fancy something along these liners:

1. Sutherland
2. Turner
3. Nel
4. Gray J
5. Cummings
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. Price
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Taylor/Johnson - Can't make up my mind about this one, though if pushed probably Taylor
13. Harris
14. VDM
15. Hogg

Subs
Kebble
Berghan
Cherry (he has done little wrong but I do fancy we will see Ashjman at some stage this 6N)
Gray R
CDP/Harley/Baylis - Like everyone else, i know nothing about the new guy. We do know what CDP and Harley bring, hard graft but no X factor. Will Toonie roll the dice?
Dobie - The stars seem to be aligning for him and he could bring real impact
Hastings - likely to come on at 12 unless Finn gets injured
Jones H


We could end the match with a backline of Dobie Russell Maitland Hastings Jones VDM Hogg - that would certainly be interesting!

France now have a new positive test. Merde!

Suite aux tests RT-PCR effectués ce mercredi 24 février et l’apparition d’un cas positif au sein de l’effectif des joueurs, le Comité Médical de la FFR s’est réuni ce matin et a décidé la suspension des entraînements ce jour.

takethelongroad wrote:France now have a new positive test. Merde!

Suite aux tests RT-PCR effectués ce mercredi 24 février et l’apparition d’un cas positif au sein de l’effectif des joueurs, le Comité Médical de la FFR s’est réuni ce matin et a décidé la suspension des entraînements ce jour.

Called it! This is definitely going to be another last minute cancellation.

French media are reporting allegations that Galthie breached bubble regs and this is the cause of the cases. No mention of that here. Still a last minute positive case was always possible and now creates chaos for rescheduling. Maybe too soon for the following week now?

takethelongroad wrote:French media are reporting allegations that Galthie breached bubble regs and this is the cause of the cases. No mention of that here. Still a last minute positive case was always possible and now creates chaos for rescheduling. Maybe too soon for the following week now?

Expect it will end up similar to Welsh game last year, maybe in the summer window though.

I don't know how they thought it was sensible just to go ahead. Considering the year we've had I'd have thought cancelling it would be a given.

NeilyBroon wrote:

takethelongroad wrote:France now have a new positive test. Merde!

Suite aux tests RT-PCR effectués ce mercredi 24 février et l’apparition d’un cas positif au sein de l’effectif des joueurs, le Comité Médical de la FFR s’est réuni ce matin et a décidé la suspension des entraînements ce jour.

Called it! This is definitely going to be another last minute cancellation.

Yep! Reckless behaviour from the 6N. Ill be annoyed if the game goes ahead, the outbreak is clearly not under control and the match is far too close for comfort. Has to be cancelled now surely.

To err is human....

To make the same mistake over and over is stupidity...

This game was doomed when they had a third of their squad testing positive, decision to reschedule should have been made then, not this eyes closed, fingers in ears, head down and run approach to playing it as scheduled. It was always going to be a a disaster. And if played, the only positive, would probably be in Scottish Player COVID tests next week.

France are in soapy bubbles now (no pun was intended, it just came out that way)

If Galthie did move about outside the bubble and given that he was one of the first to test positive then regardless on if it was his "fault" or not that this has happened the finger of blame will be pointed at him.

It could be the reaosn why it's been pushed so hard for the game to go ahead. If the game is played, it's much easier to sweep under the carpet. If the game is cancelled then people will look for answers as to what went wrong. Especially with Dodson and his lawyer readiness he could come out swinging again.

I miss the days when we jsut played sport and there was no politics or shady goings-ons

Find it astonishing, especially as it was France that made a big thing last month, that they weren’t happy for the 6 Nations to go ahead unless they could see the other nations protocols for managing COVID and their bubbles. And, hey, they are the first to register positive tests.

Mind you, how anyone expects these bubbles to be effective, when in the middle of the tournament they release players to their clubs, see their families, etc, then return back to camp the following week. Even if you take the Gov reduced isolation period of 10 days, then every player returning from their club/family visit should be in isolation for 10 days and so throws into question their suitability to play this weekend. Just pointing out the holes in the logic.

Great point. Teams are in a bubble or not. To pull this off required everyone associated with each team would have to segregate for the entire duration. It's not easy and that kind of isolation is not for everyone. In this case I have to give England a lot of credit. So far.

Again I don't mean to keep harping on about Australia, but the Melbourne Rebels, rugby league and Aussie rules teams spent the entire season last year in a bubble in Queensland - some of them didn't see their families for 7 months or so.

That isn't really practical in this scenario when players are meant to be going back to their clubs of course. Should they have changed the schedule to do the 6N in one go, with only one rest week after game 3 so they could stay in their bubbles the whole time?

The Scotland players have been posting pictures of being back with their families in rest weeks which is nice and all, bit also massively increases the risk of infection - spouses at work,kids at nursery or school etc.

I do wonder how Stuart Hogg gets to Exeter and back right now - are you even meant to travel between different areas of the UK? Is he getting on public flights? It's a hell of a long drive if not. Really does seem so silly eh.

I'm just glad common sense prevailed on Finn Russell and he wasn't expected to fly to Paris and back.

I just find it amazing that when live stock is at risk, we cancel the 6N, but when human life is at risk, we carry on regardless.

It's not just the games and the money but a player's livelihood too. What if some of these positive cases lead to long Covid and they can barely get out of bed for 3 months never mind play rugby?

Seems bananas to have this policy that games should not be deemed as forfeited.

That said, if this game does go ahead with the guy who cuts the half time oranges for Racing and the bloke who sweeps the floor for Toulouse in the French matchday XV, then we don't really have anyone to blame other than ourselves if we fail to administer an appropriate spanking.

Official.

Match postponed

So. Game off. If they decide to reschedule for next week, Scotland could be missing a number of players. But what about France? I havent checked the dates, but if the French regulations are 14 days isolation from a positive test, most (if not all) of their positive cases should also be ineligible. Never mind any more positives.

Must make it more likely that it will be later on in the year - if they dont award Scotland a 28-0.

I'd imagine it'll be off until the summer or autumn international window.

Just reinforces the fact the tournament should have been postponed. Now we have a road map out of coronavirus why can’t we postpone until later in the year for all remaining matches? It would allow crowds back for a final list of fixtures as most of us in the UK will be vaccinated by then.

The reason the games are not cancelled is simple - the game is losing money and needs TV, advertising revenue

Kicking the games down the road is a non starter as that simply means clashing with next years fixtures

Cricket has generally done a pretty good job of playing in bio-secure bubbles (with the exception of England's tour to South Africa, where the bubble was compromised by hotel staff) and as noted above other sports have equally done pretty well.

The concept of players returning to clubs in off weeks in the 6Ns in the current situation is absurd, and suggests that the administrators really haven't taken Covid seriously. They really should have pulled rank on the leagues and said that players selected for the international squads would be in isolation from 2 weeks before the tournament and throughout, with games played on consecutive weekends. I'm sure some financial agreement could have been reached to compensate clubs.

dummy_half wrote:Cricket has generally done a pretty good job of playing in bio-secure bubbles (with the exception of England's tour to South Africa, where the bubble was compromised by hotel staff) and as noted above other sports have equally done pretty well.

The concept of players returning to clubs in off weeks in the 6Ns in the current situation is absurd, and suggests that the administrators really haven't taken Covid seriously. They really should have pulled rank on the leagues and said that players selected for the international squads would be in isolation from 2 weeks before the tournament and throughout, with games played on consecutive weekends. I'm sure some financial agreement could have been reached to compensate clubs.

This is what I have been thinking all through this. How are bubbles supposed to work if you can just head off to the other leagues.

They managed to bubble through the whole of Bake off, they should be able to do it here

They really should have pulled rank on the leagues and said that players selected for the international squads would be in isolation from 2 weeks before the tournament and throughout, with games played on consecutive weekends. I'm sure some financial agreement could have been reached to compensate clubs.

The PRL will not stand for that. Russell did not go back to racing but the PRL will do anything and everything they can to continue their hold over the RFU and to continue to extort money. They will insist on having their players out of the bubble that weekend. They do not want any precedent for allowing anything they are not being paid huge sums for.

Aye, the lack of forward planning by the unions and the 6 Nations committee during a Covid crisis is the PRL’s fault.

Is the game on or off this week end?

Here you go maj:

Www.google.co.uk

Alternatively the clubs should have said that they weren't releasing their players to the unions?

The more I think about it, a key aspect of the structure of the Six Nations is flawed.  What is the purpose of the off weekends, which some people refer to as rest weekends, if many players return to their clubs and play?  In that case the Six Nations should forego the off weekends and play straight through.  There is also a point of playing in the same environment and under the same coaches for an extended period of time rather than bouncing back and forth.  And finally, players would spend less overall time away from their clubs which might make a better product on the pitch.  

This doesn't happen with every player and does seem to change somewhat each year.  Last weekend Saints didn't play or suit up Dan Biggar.  I can't say how altruistic their motive was, but that decision is fairly consistent with the club practices.  They had no obligation to do so.  

No one could have predicted Covid initially, but, at least in 2021, if the Six Nations was played straight through, there would be fewer concerns and risks about breaking the bubble, so to speak.

doctor_grey wrote:The more I think about it, a key aspect of the structure of the Six Nations is flawed.  What is the purpose of the off weekends, which some people refer to as rest weekends, if many players return to their clubs and play?  In that case the Six Nations should forego the off weekends and play straight through.  There is also a point of playing in the same environment and under the same coaches for an extended period of time rather than bouncing back and forth.  And finally, players would spend less overall time away from their clubs which might make a better product on the pitch.  

This doesn't happen with every player and does seem to change somewhat each year.  Last weekend Saints didn't play or suit up Dan Biggar.  I can't say how altruistic their motive was, but that decision is fairly consistent with the club practices.  They had no obligation to do so.  

No one could have predicted Covid initially, but, at least in 2021, if the Six Nations was played straight through, there would be fewer concerns and risks about breaking the bubble, so to speak.

The rest weekends are exactly that. Rest weekends. International rugby is much more brutal than club rugby and in club rugby you can’t rotate your players, you don’t want to rotate in an international game.

The 6Ns is really run by the unions and other than France, the players are looked after during the 6ns championship by their home unions. Wales, Ireland and Scotland centrally contract their players so they do not return to their clubs if playing in their home union. Even England have an understanding with the clubs that international players aren’t forced to play club games in England if they need a rest.

The issue is where players play outside of their union, the clubs then don’t feel they need to look after those players as much.

But yes, the 6Ns definitely needs rest weekends as playing 5 international games in a row would be brutal!

My understanding is that half the reason the international stars are played is to get feet through the gates. During the 6Ns you could argue this is the sole reason, as every club is weakened during that period, so to me it doesn't make much sense other than to encourage people to watch.

The issue always has been the reverse of the issue in football. All the money and focus tends to be on international fixtures and players, unless you're a rugby purist you don't tend to know the club squad players. Therefore the best way for clubs to get bums on seats is get the big stars playing, especially when trying to appeal to a younger audience.

Wales, Ireland and Scotland centrally contract their players so they do not return to their clubs if playing in their home union

Not so for Scotland - many of the players went back to Glasgow and Edinburgh - mainly those who had not had a full game. Glasgow could hardly have put a team out otherwise

The issue is where players play outside of their union, the clubs then don’t feel they need to look after those players as much

Again - its not the clubs here - Exeter for example did not play Jonny gray tho Hogg did play IIRC. Its the PRL totally refusing to allow the clubs to leave these players with their union. In many cases the clubs are much more co operative than the PRL . See G North and Northampton for the most blatent one

tigertattie wrote:
But yes, the 6Ns definitely needs rest weekends as playing 5 international games in a row would be brutal!

Like the World Cup? Squad sizes aren't much different.

Nelly - I think there are no doubts clubs play their stars to bring in crowds during the Six nations when the focus is away from the clubs. if there is a significant fall off from the star to his backup, even more reason.

tigertattie - I agree the Internationals are more competitive, but I don't think the physicality is much different any more. So many players now are terrific athletes, even compared to just 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago when the differences were significant. I think the main difference in the game today are the skill sets of the elite players (ignoring the question for the moment of playing the FFS line in England). The RWC finalists play seven matches on the trot. The Autumn Internationals are three or four. I would rather see the Six Nations tournament get through it all, then let the clubs manage the players to ensure they receive the proper rest and time off, within the agreements with the player's individual Player's Associations and respective Unions.

I think the clubs have mooted taking out at least one of the rest weekends before, but the players unions not at all keen.

If it were to happen, it would almost certainly mean that the national sides would have to rotate their squads a bit as well. That would be massively to the advantage of the bigger unions, England and France and would not help the competition, part of the charm being that if the planets align, then the small guys can still knock over the big guys.

We would lose a lot if it just came down to strength in depth.

TBF most of the teams could just rest their players for Italy

Who's excited for the game today?

The French have confirmed that Galthie left the teams covid bubble. Think that opens the possibility that scotland are awarded the win.

Imagine Scotland are given that win and France “denied” a losing bonus point.

Last weekend of the tournament wales vs France and France win but wales get a losing bonus point to win the title.

Would completely sum up this bonkers year of that happened.

It's an interesting case. What are the sanctions for breaking rules like these?

If there are none, what is the incentive to stick to them?

George Carlin wrote:It's an interesting case. What are the sanctions for breaking rules like these?

If there are none, what is the incentive to stick to them?

None that I can see from the 6ns which is why the french government are looking at wading in. The muppets have endangered elite sport being played in France and of that happens the club owners will really kick off.

The FFR are currently sticking by their man but this could soon change if the french government put a stop to France’s involvement on the rest of this tournament.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The French have confirmed that Galthie left the teams covid bubble. Think that opens the possibility that scotland are awarded the win.

Makes a change from the referees awarding wins

From the BBC:

'There was no wrongdoing by the France squad before a coronavirus outbreak caused the postponement of their Six Nations match against Scotland, says French federation boss Bernard Laporte.

Head coach Fabien Galthie left the squad's bubble on the opening weekend and players went out to eat waffles in Rome before victory against Italy.

"When they go out with a mask on, to me, there was no wrongdoing, but from now on, it's forbidden," Laporte said.

"Now you can't leave the hotel."

Six Nations organisers have not yet announced when Les Bleus' game against Scotland will be played, but Galthie's side will play England at Twickenham on 13 March.

Galthie provided the squad's first positive test after the 15-13 victory over Ireland in Dublin on 14 February.

Eleven players, including captain Charles Ollivon, have since been diagnosed with Covid-19.

Galthie left the training camp to attend his son's rugby game in Paris on 7 February - the day after the Italy game.

An internal investigation by the France Rugby Federation found that no rules had been broken but Laporte said protocols would become stricter after meeting with French Education, Youth and Sports Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer.

France - who are second in the Six Nations table after winning both their opening games - will gather at their training facility on Sunday before travelling to London'

That reads to me like Laporte is thinking merde, we may be awarded a loss for this.

If that's how Galthie contracted Covid, and it got into the French team bubble, then it absolutely should be a forfeit.

Back to the comparison with the cricket, remember how much aggro Joffra Archer got for travelling via his house between Southampton and Manchester last summer - isolation until negative tests returned, and suspended for a game when he didn't even some into contact with anyone else. It further confirms that the 6Ns and FFR haven't been taking this as seriously as they should have.

Considering how the French have been with COVID and European tournaments etc, you’d think the FFR would have had a firmer policy in place.

It's purely coincidence I presume that the french saw no wrongdoing when they have a chance of winning the whole competition. I presume if Scotland can't field a team now it'll be 28-0 victory to France into the bargain.

Going out in Rome to eat waffles is clearly wrongdoing, save that for Belgium. What about the pizza?

There is no reason why this shouldn't be a 28-0 walkover win for Scotland.

I suppose the only reason not to is if they find a suitable time later in the year with agreement from both unions. Of they cant then absolutely should be awarded. Comps have flipped between 20 and 28 points awarded.

Am I right in thinking the new date still isn't set in stone? Everyone's talking about 2 weeks but it's not been formally announced anywhere. The SRU haven't said anything.

Leaving it a bit late!

RDW wrote:Am I right in thinking the new date still isn't set in stone? Everyone's talking about 2 weeks but it's not been formally announced anywhere. The SRU haven't said anything.

Leaving it a bit late!

It will be all about compensation for the clubs in England and France atm with Dodson no doubt playing hardball and wanting the French to cough for it.

France may wait and see whether they are still on for a GS before committing any cash to the project, so see how this weekends game in London goes!