U20 Six Nations 2021

First topic message reminder :

Thought it might good to have a place to discuss the tournament collectively, would be good to hear about players who we are less familiar with from other nations.

The games are being broadcast live on the iPlayer in the UK this weekend.

England  
FORWARDS
Harvey Beaton (Saracens)
Phil Brantingham (Newcastle Falcons)
Lucas Brooke (London Irish)
Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)
Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby)
Luke Green (London Irish)
Alex Groves (Bristol Bears)
Tarek Haffar (London Irish)
Lewis Holsey (Worcester Warriors)
Ethan Hunt (Gloucester Rugby)
Emeka Ilione (Leicester Tigers)
Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby)
Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby)
Sam Riley (Harlequins)
Ollie Stonham (Saracens)
Harry Taylor (Gloucester Rugby)
Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby)
Archie Vanes (Leicester Tigers)

BACKS
Charlie Atkinson (Wasps)
Seb Atkinson (Worcester Warriors)
Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears)
Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby)
Jack Bates (Bristol Bears)
Louis Hillman-Cooper (Gloucester Rugby)
Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes)
Tom Litchfield (Northampton Saints)
Tommy Mathews (Northampton Saints)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks)
Arthur Relton (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks)
Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers)


Scotland  

FORWARDS
Jamie Drummond* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Patrick Harrison* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Duncan Hood* (Heriot’s Blues)
Tom Banatvala (Durham University)
Michael Jones* (Boroughmuir Bears)
Corey Bowker (Leeds Beckett University)
George Breese* (Stirling Wolves)
Olly Frostick (Ealing Trailfinders)
Cole Lamberton* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Alex Samuel* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors) CAPATIN
Max Williamson* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Euan Ferrie (Glasgow Hawks)
Harri Morris (Southern Knights)
Rhys Tait (Southern Knights)
Ollie Leatherbarrow (Exeter University)
Rory Jackson* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Ben Muncaster* (Watsonians Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Archie Smeaton (Cambridge University)

BACKS
Ethan McVicker (Melrose Rugby)
Murray Redpath (Newcastle University)
Cameron Scott* (Southern Knights/Edinburgh Rugby)
Euan Cunningham* (Stirling County/Glasgow Warriors)
Christian Townsend* (Ayrshire Bulls)
Thomas Glendinning* (Glasgow Hawks)
Scott King* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Michael Gray* (Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Elliot Gourlay (Sale Sharks)
Finlay Callaghan* (Ayrshire Bulls/Glasgow Warriors)
Adam Scott * (GHA)
Ollie Melville* (Boroughmuir Bears/Glasgow Warriors)
Harry Paterson* (Heriot’s Rugby/Edinburgh Rugby)
Ross McKnight* (Stirling County)


Ireland  

Forwards:

George Saunderson (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Jack Boyle (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Temi Asewunmi Lasisi (CBS Enniscorthy/Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Mark Donnelly (CBC Cork/Garryowen RFC/Munster)
Eoin de Buitléar (Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiáran/An Ghaeltacht/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Lee Barron (St Michael’s College/Dublin University FC/Leinster)
Ronan Loughnane (Cistercian College Roscrea/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Sam Illo (Wesley College/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
Darragh Murray (Colaiste Chiaran/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Harry Sheridan (Sullivan Upper School/Dublin University FC/Ulster)
Mark Morrisey (Blackrock College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Alex Soroka (Belvedere College/Clontarf RFC/Leinster)
Oisin McCormack (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Alex Kendellen (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)(Captain)
Reuben Crothers (Wallace High School/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
Donnacha Byrne (Summerhill College/Sligo RFC/Connacht)
Jack Kelleher (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)
Daniel Okeke (Ard Scoil Ris/Shannon RFC/Munster)
Liam Bishop (Trent College/Nottingham University/IQ Rugby)

Backs:

Conor McKee (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Nathan Doak (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
Ben Murphy (Presentation College Bray/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
Tim Corkery (St Kieran’s College, Kilkenny/UCD RFC/Leinster)
James Humphreys (Dean Close School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
Cathal Forde (Colaiste Iognaid/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Ben Carson (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
Shane Jennings (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Ben Moxham (Larne High School/Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
Conor Rankin (Campbell College Belfast/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
Chay Mullins (SGC Filton/Bristol Bears/IQ Rugby)
Josh O’Connor (St Peter’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jamie Osborne (Naas CBS/Naas RFC/Leinster)
Chris Cosgrave (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
Jude Postlethwaite (RBAI/Banbridge RFC/Ulster).


Wales

Forwards:
Garyn Phillips (Ospreys)
Theo Bavaqua (Cardiff Blues)
Cameron Jones (Ospreys)
Efan Daniel (Cardiff Blues)
Ollie Burrows (Exeter Chiefs)
Connor Chapman (Dragons)
Nathan Evans (Cardiff Blues)
Lewys Jones (USON Nevers)
Zak Giannini (Llanelli Wanderers)
Joe Peard (Dragons)
James Fender (Ospreys)
Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs)
Rhys Thomas (Ospreys/Aberavon)
Alex Mann (Capt – Cardiff Blues)
Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs)
Harri Deaves (Ospreys)
Tristan Davies (Ospreys)
Carwyn Tuipulotu (Scarlets)
Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Blues)

Backs:
Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Blues)
Morgan Richards (Dragons/Pontypridd)
Carrick McDonnough (Dragons)
Eddie James (Scarlets)
Tom Florence (Ospreys)
Joe Hawkins (Ospreys)
Ioan Evans (Pontypridd)
Daniel John (Exeter Chiefs)
Sam Costelow (Scarlets)
Will Reed (Dragons)
Ben Burnell (Cardiff Blues)
Harri Williams (Scarlets)
Ethan Lloyd (Cardiff Blues)

lostinwales wrote:Scotland currently trailing by 2 tries to Italy

And another. To be fair from what little I have seen this Italy team is better than their results suggest.

Italy to their credit have been extremely good, if these kids come through, then The Italian senior side will no doubt improve as well.

This has been Scotland's worse game so far, mistake after mistake and looking very clueless. They could get a real stuffing here unless they can change up in the second half

BigGee wrote:Italy to their credit have been extremely good, if these kids come through, then The Italian senior side will no doubt improve as well.

This has been Scotland's worse game so far, mistake after mistake and looking very clueless. They could get a real stuffing here unless they can change up in the second half

They didn't change up...

Welsh fly-half Reed probably having one of the worst shockers I've ever seen. We've just past the half hour mark. If the coach is decent, which he isn't, he would be ruthless and replace Reed with Costelow.

Wales very lucky to avoid a red card (13 gets yellow for taking the French 15 out in the air) and 4 tries to 1 down at half time. France looking as dangerous as they did in the first half vs England

A bit late for a comeback but Costelow does make a try with a lovely pass

England Ireland not much in it but England edging the game so far.

Atkinson has had a horrible 30 mins at full back.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Atkinson has had a horrible 30 mins at full back.

Annoying run back where he breaks two tackles then fumbles without a green hand on him

The Irish 8 takes some stopping.

England 7-0 ahead at HT. Were definitely starting to put Ireland under a lot of pressure but should have been smarter with the chances they have made.

Not a great game so far.  England's defence has proven too powerful for the Irish attack in the first half.  They got belted back pretty much every time they attacked.

Overall though England have been pretty poor.  Look fairly clueless with the ball in hand, there have been so many box kicks that it has been difficult to get anything going.

I know it created a try, but the English lineout has been really inaccurate too.  They've had to resort to throwing it to the front most of the time.   With the rolling maul the way it is, they could have got way more traction out of the set piece if they were more confident in it.

Bloody hell, that was a very poor result for Scotland, what happened?

Cumbrian wrote:Bloody hell, that was a very poor result for Scotland, what happened?

Italy are a good team and nothing worked for Scotland

Cumbrian wrote:Not a great game so far.  England's defence has proven too powerful for the Irish attack in the first half.  They got belted back pretty much every time they attacked.

Overall though England have been pretty poor.  Look fairly clueless with the ball in hand, there have been so many box kicks that it has been difficult to get anything going.

I know it created a try, but the English lineout has been really inaccurate too.  They've had to resort to throwing it to the front most of the time.   With the rolling maul the way it is, they could have got way more traction out of the set piece if they were more confident in it.

The Baileys both look very dangerous and we are missing that I think.

Bad try to give away by the Irish, who (famous last words) look like they are fading a bit.

Merigan. Whats 2 red cards worth in bans?

Commentators couldn't wait to give a red card again...

I can't agree thats a yellow. Or that the previous should be ignored.

Cumbrian wrote:Not a great game so far.  England's defence has proven too powerful for the Irish attack in the first half.  They got belted back pretty much every time they attacked.

Overall though England have been pretty poor.  Look fairly clueless with the ball in hand, there have been so many box kicks that it has been difficult to get anything going.

I know it created a try, but the English lineout has been really inaccurate too.  They've had to resort to throwing it to the front most of the time.   With the rolling maul the way it is, they could have got way more traction out of the set piece if they were more confident in it.

The starting hooker for England Sam Riley is a rampaging unit in the loose and seems decent at the scrum but against Scotland his darts didn't look the best. Needs to nail down those basics if he wants to step up. I'm sure Flannery will be giving him extra drills because he looks physically developed enough to be drip fed into senior rugby already.

Clement got MOM but I'd have gone for Groves who was a point of difference, or Richards for the two tries plus reacting first to the Irish 7 lying hurt at the start of the 2nd half.

And the commentators are not good.

Tough match, England just that bit bigger and stronger but we never capitulated which was admirable. A bit more luck with the refereeing decisions and we could have won it.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Tough match, England just that bit bigger and stronger but we never capitulated which was admirable.  A bit more luck with the refereeing decisions and we could have won it.

It wasn't on the referee. You can argue that the English no.8 should of been off but our last try was scored when he was on the yellow card. It may have been the day but this time Ireland were outmuscled. That included losing two scrums against the head. Ireland always looked dangerous but very rarely got into the England 22.

Ah no, I'm not saying England weren't the better team but the 1st try was a knock on while grounding and our yellow card was never offside.  
If those calls went our way we could have had a chance to pinch it.

One of the reasons to clamp down hard on high tackles, and contact with the head, is to change behaviour.

At U20 level, players are committing the same offences you see at senior level. And yet this is the generation which is supposed to have grown up playing under the new environment. At some point, the game will have to recognize that behaviour evidently isn't changing, and work out what to do.

Rugby Fan wrote:One of the reasons to clamp down hard on high tackles, and contact with the head, is to change behaviour.

At U20 level, players are committing the same offences you see at senior level. And yet this is the generation which is supposed to have grown up playing under the new environment. At some point, the game will have to recognize that behaviour evidently isn't changing, and work out what to do.

I wonder if anyone has done some proper analysis of who is getting carded, and who (particularly if they make a lot of tackles) are not. It is harder for taller players and there is a lot more instinct than malice in the majority of these cards, but beyond that?

lostinwales wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:One of the reasons to clamp down hard on high tackles, and contact with the head, is to change behaviour.

At U20 level, players are committing the same offences you see at senior level. And yet this is the generation which is supposed to have grown up playing under the new environment. At some point, the game will have to recognize that behaviour evidently isn't changing, and work out what to do.

I wonder if anyone has done some proper analysis of who is getting carded, and who (particularly if they make a lot of tackles) are not. It is harder for taller players and there is a lot more instinct than malice in the majority of these cards, but beyond that?

Irish lock Alex Soroka was penalized for a no-arms tackle. While he didn't get his arms up enough for a wrap, he was so low, if he had got his arms in the right position, they probably would have been hyperextended.

That wasn't a card but it's illustrative of the general problem. World Rugby are clear on what they don't want to see. The problem is, it doesn't seem as if anyone has come up with viable alternative techniques. When a players commits an offence, you ought to be able to tell them what they should have done differently. The most obvious example is an attacker going for the line, leading with his head, inches off the grass. No-one has really shown what legal methods defenders can use to tackle him.

From the beeb

Wales U20: Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Rugby); Daniel John (Exeter Chiefs), Ioan Evans (Pontypridd), Joe Hawkins (Ospreys), Tom Florence (Ospreys); Sam Costelow (Scarlets), Ethan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby); Theo Bevacqua (Cardiff Rugby), Oli Burrows (Exeter Chiefs); Lewys Jones (Nevers), Joe Peard (Dragons), Rhys Thomas (Ospreys), Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs), Alex Mann (Cardiff Rugby, capt), Carwyn Tuipulotu (Scarlets).

Replacement (from)s: Efan Daniel (Cardiff Rugby), Cameron Jones (Ospreys), Nathan Evans (Cardiff Rugby), James Fender (Ospreys), Tristan Davies (Ospreys), Harri Williams (Scarlets), Will Reed (Dragons), Carrick McDonough (Dragons), Morgan Richards (Dragons/Pontypridd), Eddie James (Scarlets), Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby).

England U20: Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby); Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks), Jack Bates (Bristol Bears), Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes), Arthur Relton (Exeter Chiefs); Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, capt); Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Sam Riley (Harlequins), Harvey Kindell-Beaton (Saracens), Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby), Alex Groves (Bristol Bears), Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby), Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby), Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby).

Replacements: Archie Vanes (Leicester Tigers), Lewis Holsey (Worcester Warriors), Luke Green (London Irish), Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby), Josh Gray (Gloucester Rugby), Ollie Stonham (Saracens), Tom Carr-Smith (Bath Rugby), Tommy Mathews (Hartpury University RFC), Phil Cokanasiga (London Irish), Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears), Charlie Atkinson (Wasps).

Interesting seeing the undroppables in the England squad.

Where has Quirke gone?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Where has Quirke gone?

No idea - He was only in one squad, with the Bath man picked for the other 3 games. JVP has been very good though. Pretty sure he has played every minute so far.

Rugby Fan wrote:One of the reasons to clamp down hard on high tackles, and contact with the head, is to change behaviour.

At U20 level, players are committing the same offences you see at senior level. And yet this is the generation which is supposed to have grown up playing under the new environment. At some point, the game will have to recognize that behaviour evidently isn't changing, and work out what to do.

It has changed no doubt at all - when did yo last see someone clotheslined? Been years for me but used to be common.

We still see the upright "man and ball" tackle yes - but the danger has gone down. I do agree tho that some more law tinkering may need to be done

Round 4 on today.

lostinwales wrote:From the beeb

Wales U20: Jacob Beetham (Cardiff Rugby); Daniel John (Exeter Chiefs), Ioan Evans (Pontypridd), Joe Hawkins (Ospreys), Tom Florence (Ospreys); Sam Costelow (Scarlets), Ethan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby); Theo Bevacqua (Cardiff Rugby), Oli Burrows (Exeter Chiefs); Lewys Jones (Nevers), Joe Peard (Dragons), Rhys Thomas (Ospreys), Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs), Alex Mann (Cardiff Rugby, capt), Carwyn Tuipulotu (Scarlets).

Replacement (from)s: Efan Daniel (Cardiff Rugby), Cameron Jones (Ospreys), Nathan Evans (Cardiff Rugby), James Fender (Ospreys), Tristan Davies (Ospreys), Harri Williams (Scarlets), Will Reed (Dragons), Carrick McDonough (Dragons), Morgan Richards (Dragons/Pontypridd), Eddie James (Scarlets), Evan Lloyd (Cardiff Rugby).

England U20: Orlando Bailey (Bath Rugby); Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks), Jack Bates (Bristol Bears), Dan Lancaster (Leeds Tykes), Arthur Relton (Exeter Chiefs); Fin Smith (Worcester Warriors), Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, capt); Fin Baxter (Harlequins), Sam Riley (Harlequins), Harvey Kindell-Beaton (Saracens), Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby), Alex Groves (Bristol Bears), Ewan Richards (Bath Rugby), Jack Clement (Gloucester Rugby), Nahum Merigan (Bath Rugby).

Replacements: Archie Vanes (Leicester Tigers), Lewis Holsey (Worcester Warriors), Luke Green (London Irish), Freddie Thomas (Gloucester Rugby), Josh Gray (Gloucester Rugby), Ollie Stonham (Saracens), Tom Carr-Smith (Bath Rugby), Tommy Mathews (Hartpury University RFC), Phil Cokanasiga (London Irish), Deago Bailey (Bristol Bears), Charlie Atkinson (Wasps).

Interesting seeing the undroppables in the England squad.

JVP and Costelow played together as an outstanding half back pairing for the Tigers academy. I think they've faced off at age grade a few times as well. Shame they aren't still combining for Tigers, Costelow really was poorly advised leaving when he did.

Two Chiefs wingers, one on either side could be interesting.

England again have gone big up front, breakdown skills are limited and Scotland successfully frustrated them with good jackling. Wales normally have a good openside available so they will looking for him to have a good game. Could be key for slowing down the England ball carriers. England really are desperate for a good openside this year.

That Italy team isn't bad at all. I suspect the Wales result is a lot better than was suspected at the time.

I should be working... From what little I have seen Italy are very physical, and a much changed Irish team are struggling to have the same impact they had in previous games. It is a brutal game and Italy are winning the collisions. Looks like their OC is more that useful too.

Just to add to that. Looked up the OC -Tommaso Menoncello. He's only 18, 1.84m tall and listed as 110kg...

Ireland came good in the second half with Italy failing to score. Didn't see much and I don't know if its the standard thing of wanting the underdog to come good but Italy seemed to get on the wrong side of the ref.

lostinwales wrote:That Italy team isn't bad at all. I suspect the Wales result is a lot better than was suspected at the time.

Italy have been very strong at U20 level for the past couple years. Definitely not whipping boys.

The Wales coach is annoying me already with the way he's talking about tonight's game. I think we need a serious re-think at U20 level - and I'm not the only one to notice. We've put out some good players this year and over the last few years, we usually do, but they look poor when playing for Wales U20. We have four pro teams and the level below the regions is U20 rugby, so the union needs to consider looking elsewhere for some higher quality coaches, rather than use it as a training ground for Wales' below average coaches.

Not watching closely but Scotland France very one sided at the moment despite a French winger getting a red card for a tip tackle. French scrum is obliterating the Scots at the moment.

Wales struggled to deal with the giant England pack. Every scrum looks like a penalty for England. Wales have got a lot of talent but it doesn't look like it's in the tight five.

Sam Riley and Jack Clement look like really good long term prospects. Van Poortvliet too.

Wales look like they have some big guys too but the England pack have steamrollered everyone so far. Wales have looked dangerous on the break but they haven't got anywhere near the England line.

Agree over Riley, JVP and Clement.

I think Groves has been hugely important to England too. Reaching over the Wales maul to pick the ball out was one highlight, but there were plenty of others. It will be interesting to see how he develops.

If the English backs had better handling the would be out of sight by now.

Wales will need to try to get some possession in the second half because they are teetering here. I wouldn't be surprised if they fade as the match goes on, they've had to get through so much work in that first half.

Sam Riley looks like he could be a world beater, big lad with a a really good skillset and mobility. His decision making and lineout work need some fine tuning but he's young those will come. Quins should be looking to get him tied down to a three of four year deal.

Clement I'm undecided about. He's big, powerful and a real workhorse. He's isn't explosion though so I'm not sure how it'll go when he gets into senior rugby. Can see him being a good blindside flanker. The kind of just let me hit things all day type.

JVP has future international written all over him. He's been getting game time at Tigers this season and we fully expect him to surpass Wigglesworth next season and then Youngs probably after the next world cup. He's got a bit of everything but has got quite long legs which make him easy to target when box kicking which he's got to tighten up a little bit. The kicks themselves are good but the mechanism for delivering them needs to be a bit quicker and more compact.

Wales have got to find a way to build phases and keep Costelow in the game. Wales looks dangerous when they get to run through a few phases but their forwards can't recycle and rebuild momentum if the backs are stopped.

England look tired. But Wales are completely wrecked.

Its just a question of how many

'no doubt about it now the triple crown is in the bag' They were already 28 points ahead with 10 minutes left.

Those comentators. Ojo is OK but they do have some real idiots

Not a great game to be honest.

Wales started Ok but they got ground down quickly and then it was almost entirely a question of how often England's handling went wrong, and both teams looked very tired after an hour.

Seemed to be a hard game for the ref. I am not sure if he lost control as such but there were so many stops for TMO reviews, discussions, working out what they were doing for scrums when both Wales hookers were off the pitch, who gets a yellow card etc.

Match stats say England had 61% of the posession and 55% of the territory. Seems like an underestimate.

Wales have not been very good at U20 level for a few years now. Not sure why. Maybe the coaching, as Mikey alludes to earlier in the thread. We’ve got some decent players but just don’t seem at the races for the last few years.

The Oracle wrote:Wales have not been very good at U20 level for a few years now. Not sure why. Maybe the coaching, as Mikey alludes to earlier in the thread. We’ve got some decent players but just don’t seem at the races for the last few years.

The Welsh set pieces were pretty poor. Seemed more individual talent than cohesive better than the sum of their parts. The English pack were not particularly bright but they were powerful and we'll drilled. I think some of the English forwards might need reminding that they need to just get the first quarter done and get in front before trying offloads and one handed carries.