WALES INTERNATIONAL: GAMES, SQUADS, TOURNAMENTS, CHAT - SUMMER TOUR & SEASON 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

Here it is:

Springbok team to face Wales in Cape Town:
15 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 17 caps, 12 pts (1t, 2c, 1p)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon) – 19 caps 18pts, 50pts (10t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 27 caps, 25 pts (5t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 59 caps, 35 pts (7t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 26 caps, 100 pts (20t)
10 – Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers) – 61 caps, 613 pts (6t, 83c, 131p, 4d)
9 – Jaden Hendrikse (Cell C Sharks) – 3 caps, 5 pts (1t)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 12 caps, 0 pts
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz) – 59 caps, 25 pts (5t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 64 caps, 30 pts (6t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Wild Knights) – 57 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 99 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 47 caps, 5pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 49 caps, 50 pts (10t)
1 – Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92) – 55 caps, 5pts (1t)

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 48 caps, 55 pts (11t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 60 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Wasps) 33 caps, 0 pts
19 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 52 caps, 5pts (1t)
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 20 caps, 5 pts (1t)
21 – Elrigh Louw (Vodacom Bulls) – 1 cap, 0pts
22 – Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles) – 37caps, 25pts (5t)
23 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 73 caps, 60 pts (12t)

mikey_dragon wrote:Probably just be Moriarty, Roberts and Dyer from Dragons. Nott at a stretch.

Yeah it will be interesting to see if Gatland picks Roberts over Baldwin.

I was going Moriarty and Dyer.

Bradley Roberts really couldn't have done much more to make his case for selection.

Forwards (20)

Rhys Carre (Cardiff Rugby 17 caps)

Wyn Jones (Scarlets – 45 caps)

Gareth Thomas (Ospreys – 17 caps)

Dewi Lake (Ospreys – 8 caps)

Ken Owens (Scarlets – 86 caps), Captain

Bradley Roberts (Dragons – 3 caps)

Leon Brown (Dragons – 22 caps)

Tomas Francis (Ospreys – 67 caps)

Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Rugby – 45 caps)

Adam Beard (Ospreys – 41 caps)

Rhys Davies (Ospreys – uncapped)

Dafydd Jenkins (Exeter Chiefs – 1 cap)

Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys – 155 caps)

Teddy Williams (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)

Taulupe Faletau (Cardiff Rugby – 95 caps)

Jac Morgan (Ospreys – 6 caps)

Tommy Reffell (Leicester Tigers – 4 caps)

Justin Tipuric (Ospreys – 89 caps)

Christ Tshiunza (Exeter Chiefs – 3 caps)

Aaron Wainwright (Dragons – 36 caps)



Backs (17)

Kieran Hardy (Scarlets – 16 caps)

Rhys Webb (Ospreys – 36 caps)

Tomos Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 40 caps)

Dan Biggar (Toulon – 103 caps)

Rhys Patchell (Scarlets – 21 caps)

Owen Williams (Ospreys – 3 caps)

Mason Grady (Cardiff Rugby – uncapped)

Joe Hawkins (Ospreys – 1 cap)

George North (Ospreys – 109 caps)

Nick Tompkins (Saracens – 25 caps)

Keiran Williams (Ospreys – uncapped)

Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby – 44 caps)

Alex Cuthbert (Ospreys – 55 caps)

Rio Dyer (Dragons – 3 caps)

Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets – 97 caps)

Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby – 22)

Liam Williams (Cardiff Rugby – 81)

Surprised at Ken being selected as captain, also surprised to see no Nicky Smith.

Well a few there that I don't agree with but oh well. Not sure how he can justify inclusion of Hardy and the non-inclusion of Nicky Smith. Rest are pretty solid. As for captain, I'm not sure who else he could have picked. I guess he sees Biggar as the reliable option, but with potential to not be first choice. If he is injured we have a good like-for-like in Owen Williams.

Surprised to see Leon Brown make the cut too, when was the last time he played?

mikey_dragon wrote:Well a few there that I don't agree with but oh well. Not sure how he can justify inclusion of Hardy and the non-inclusion of Nicky Smith. Rest are pretty solid. As for captain, I'm not sure who else he could have picked. I guess he sees Biggar as the reliable option, but with potential to not be first choice. If he is injured we have a good like-for-like in Owen Williams.

Agreed there Mikey. Blacker is in better form that Hardy for me & Smith is currently playing better than both Wyn Jones & Thomas.

Aaron Wainwright's been playing well, I did think he was an outside bet for a spot.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bradley Roberts really couldn't have done much more to make his case for selection.

I totally agree and he offers something different to any other hooker we have available. I just assumed Gatland would go for the size of Elias.

mikey_dragon wrote:Surprised to see Leon Brown make the cut too, when was the last time he played?

It's been a couple of months, I'm sure. He's been travelling with the Dragons but not playing.

EDIT: Bloody hell, apparently he hasn't played since April!

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well a few there that I don't agree with but oh well. Not sure how he can justify inclusion of Hardy and the non-inclusion of Nicky Smith. Rest are pretty solid. As for captain, I'm not sure who else he could have picked. I guess he sees Biggar as the reliable option, but with potential to not be first choice. If he is injured we have a good like-for-like in Owen Williams.

Agreed there Mikey. Blacker is in better form that Hardy for me & Smith is currently playing better than both Wyn Jones & Thomas.

Agree with both of you. Do feel for Smith.

Nicky Smith's another one who really couldn't have done much more. It'll be interesting to hear Gatland's explanation for leaving him out.

RiscaGame wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bradley Roberts really couldn't have done much more to make his case for selection.

I totally agree and he offers something different to any other hooker we have available. I just assumed Gatland would go for the size of Elias.

Injured.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Nicky Smith's another one who really couldn't have done much more. It'll be interesting to hear Gatland's explanation for leaving him out.

Intersting indeed. I know that Gatland rates Wainwright very highly though given how he's talked him up in the past, I had a feeling he might sneak in.

I also thought it would be either Patchell or Halfpenny, not both. For me though, Halfpenny is past it. Good player for Scarlets but that's it.

Oakdene wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Bradley Roberts really couldn't have done much more to make his case for selection.

I totally agree and he offers something different to any other hooker we have available. I just assumed Gatland would go for the size of Elias.

Injured.

I thought he was close to a return, so expected him to come straight back in. Kind of what Brown has done.

i really thought Gatland would of started a clean sheet and drop some of the older players in gavor of younger players who will be in the squad after the RWC 303
/

Interesting that Gatland would like to have Rowlands and Hill available for the world cup, but no mention of Jake Ball though. Given how physical the international game is, why wouldn't Jake get a mention?

Wales fans, I am seeing a lot of "hype" coming from various sources online. Do you think this is justified? Or will this indeed be a Welsh squad that can do some damage this 6N?

It depends what Gatland picks. An obvious example is the centres, where you can imagine Gatland picking Tompkins and North, which would ignore form.

I don’t see us doing well, but then I would’ve bet on a sixth place finish if Pivac was still in charge and now I don’t think we will finish there.

Some people may call it hype, I call it truth. Wales for the Grand Slam

I think North would do alright, but I see the Irish attack exposing his channel. I wouldn't go for Tompkins either, would prefer Hawkins or Williams. I'll say it again, Watkin is rubbish.

If Lake is a casualty his replacement has to be Baldwin.

Flipping eck, it's a skip fire

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64333230

This a programme that will get a lot of attention tonight.

It is no secret that there is a rotten culture in the WRU anyway, but hopefully this will cause a shake up and the old boys club is knocked on the head.

Gatland has let himself down with his two sides comment too. He should’ve just said I don’t know about it or not answered questions on it.

A couple of major sponsors have said they want to see immediate action after last night's programme. I don't think a promise to do better is going to cut it here, and rightly so.

Lake out, Baldwin in.

I make that 5 hookers in total that are better than Elias; Owens, Lake, Roberts, Parry, Baldwin.

mikey_dragon wrote:Lake out, Baldwin in.

I make that 5 hookers in total that are better than Elias; Owens, Lake, Roberts, Parry, Baldwin.

How are they better than Elias? Or is that your opinion?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:A couple of major sponsors have said they want to see immediate action after last night's programme. I don't think a promise to do better is going to cut it here, and rightly so.

Totally agree, even the WoL are peddling the fact that sponsors & regions have called for Phillips to go.

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Lake out, Baldwin in.

I make that 5 hookers in total that are better than Elias; Owens, Lake, Roberts, Parry, Baldwin.

How are they better than Elias? Or is that your opinion?

They're better than Elias FACT.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Lake out, Baldwin in.

I make that 5 hookers in total that are better than Elias; Owens, Lake, Roberts, Parry, Baldwin.

How are they better than Elias? Or is that your opinion?

They're better than Elias FACT.

It's not fact though is it? It's your opinion.

FWIW I think if I had to pick a list, I'd go Lake, Owens, Baldwin/Roberts (can't split them), Elias & Parry.

So you think there are a host of hookers better than him, yet what I say isn't fact? If you rate Elias then admittedly, I'm absolutely missing it. Elias was another Pivac favourite and naturally had more game time than warranted. That was plenty of tests for everyone to see he isn't international standard. His lineout remains incredibly suspect and he gives away too many penalties.

It's pretty clear that there's no going back now after Hayley Parsons's letter. Enough's enough.

Might this finally be the kick that is needed for the WRU shake-up? Shambles.

The member clubs are writing in one by one now calling for Phillips to go.

Phillips could be the first to go, but shouldn’t be the last. It’s like we have been saying for years and what Parsons said, they all need to go.

As per usual the welsh are not planning on a tea party.

Wales: Halfpenny; Adams, North, Hawkins, Dyer; Biggar, T Williams; G Thomas, Owens (capt), Francis, Beard, Alun Wyn Jones, Morgan, Tipuric, Faletau.

Replacements: Baldwin, Carre, Lewis, Jenkins, Reffell, Webb, O Williams, Cuthbert.

I'd probably have called that as a Gatland XXIII even without knowing he was in charge... it'll be interesting to see if he's evolved tactically, because I think his gameplan was worked out by the better teams a couple of years ago.

Poorfour wrote:I'd probably have called that as a Gatland XXIII even without knowing he was in charge... it'll be interesting to see if he's evolved tactically, because I think his gameplan was worked out by the better teams a couple of years ago.

Id say Gatland's immediate input will be more to do with mentality than game plan.

Also the first thing I notice is most of the team are in their 30s with very little inexperience. Even George North is in his 30s now.

I would have gambled more with the starting team, like starting Jenkins and having Tshiunza and Rhys Davies involved. Not a fan of filling up with open sides unless you can compensate with a bigger blindside or 8.

I would’ve had Rhys Davies start. I like a lot of the bench. Bit of impact there.

I thought Gatland would want the heft of Rhys Davies, either starting or off the bench. Maybe we'll see him against England and / or France.

As baffling as it still is to me that Nicky Smith isn't in the wider squad, Rhys Carre off the bench could make a real difference, in the loose at least.

I quite like how Two Sides has mentioned that he wants Sir AWJ to empty his tank and he will look to bring him off early, but then he should still have used Rhys Davies for me. AWJ did play reasonably well against Australia, imo, but I would still have preferred form to have started. Daf Jenkins has been playing well for Exeter, so there should be a bit of impact there. I would've probably have had our saviour Christ on the bench, as I feel there are too many out and out 7s in the squad and if we are being bossed physically, there isn't a lot of change on the bench, other than amongst some of the front row.

The squad selected is a bit of a meh to me, would prefer to see Christ in place of Tipuric & Davies or Jenkins in place of AWJ. Not sure why Wyn Jones wasn't released to the Scarlets last weekend to get game time either.

Currently not excited for the game.

So based on the opening weekend it could be a difficult one for Wales in this years tournament. Perhaps we should focus on performance and developing youngsters, rather than results. Winning still welcome though.

Well that was as deflating an opening weekend we could have hoped for. Physically battered by Ireland and a slightly bizarre return to veteran players.

Gatland is fortunate that AWJ is out this weekend or he would be left with a very tricky call as to whether he selects him again. Faletau needs a big game as he also looked way off the pace, but with no other viable options in the squad to select at 8.

With the same group of players to select from, anyone thinking that the change of coach was going to bring a large upturn in results is going to be severely disappointed.

Some good analysis from this guy on Twitter. Always good stuff from him. In summary, Wales’ attack is based on the opposition defenders making mistakes (such as missing tackles). Whereas the better teams are creating chances that do not always require the opposition to make mistakes. Attacking space rather than attacking through the defender, I suppose. So little attacking shape to Wales so far this 6N. Who’s the backs/attack coach??!

Edit: I’m not allowed to post links as a new member. Look up Sam Larner on Twitter.

I thought both the Exeter boys did alright. The young guys are all putting the effort in, but this ‘team’ just isn’t playing as a team yet. The halfbacks haven’t controlled the game well in two matches so time for changes there. Tomos Williams to the bench, but Biggar can be dropped altogether. I only just seen his pre-match comments as well, what a tool.