Prem Round 2

by Geordie Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:24 pm

Saturday
Northampton v L. Irish (14.00pm)
Bath v Sale (15.00pm)
Quins v Saracens (15.00pm)
Leicester v Newcastle (15.00pm)
Wasps v Bristol (15.00pm)

Sunday
Worcester v Exeter (15.00pm)

by Geordie Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:28 pm

A few big games already...
Ill go..

Irish
Sale
Tough one...ill say Saracens
Leicester
Bristol
Exeter

by Geordie Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:11 pm

Newcastle Falcons team to face Leicester Tigers (Saturday, 3pm, Mattioli Woods Welford Road)

15 Alex Tait, 14 Adam Radwan, 13 George Wacokecoke, 12 Pete Lucock, 11 Nathan Earle, 10 Brett Connon, 9 Josh Barton; 1 Phil Brantingham, 2 George McGuigan, 3 Trevor Davison, 4 Greg Peterson, 5 Sean Robinson, 6 Will Welch (captain), 7 Jamie Blamire, 8 Carl Fearns.

Replacements: 16 Charlie Maddison, 17 Conrad Cade, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Sebastian de Chaves, 20 Connor Collett, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Tian Schoeman, 23 Mateo Carreras.

Not available for selection: Adam Brocklebank, Callum Chick, Luke Coulston, Matthew Dalton, Matt Deehan, Gary Graham, Matias Moroni, Logovi'i Mulipola, Chidera Obonna, Matias Orlando, Tom Penny, Guy Pepper, Vereimi Qorowale, Charlie Smith, Sam Stuart, Philip van der Walt, Michael Young.

Leicester Tigers:
15 Chris Ashton, 14 Harry Potter, 13 Matt Scott, 12 Guy Porter, 11 Nemani Nadolo, 10 Jimmy Gopperth, 9 Ben Youngs; 1 James Cronin, 2 Charlie Clare, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Harry Wells, 5 Calum Green, 6 George Martin, 7 Ollie Chessum, 8 Hanro Liebenberg (captain).

Replacements: 16 Joe Taufete'e, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Joe Heyes, 19 Olly Cracknell, 20 Tommy Reffell, 21 Jack van Poortvliet, 22 Phil Cokanasiga, 23 Kini Murimurivalu.

Referee: Craig Maxwell-Keys.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:20 pm

Gopperth ain't a great 10 but that pack is going to beat the living snot out of you .

by formerly known as Sam Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gopperth ain't a great 10 but that pack is going to beat the living snot out of you .

If Gopperth goes off injured then fingers crossed Nadolo to 10 and then the flyhalf will be able to beat the living snot out of the opposition as well. The Falcons forward giving tail defence at the lineout won't appreciate flying off to try and close the 10 down quite so much.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:52 pm

by Geordie Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:50 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gopperth ain't a great 10 but that pack is going to beat the living snot out of you .

Maybe...maybe not. Maybe we'll not go into an arm wrestle....

by Geordie Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:51 am

Ps in rhe last game ..Radwan quite comfortably handled Nadolo...

by formerly known as Sam Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:34 am

Geordie wrote:Ps in rhe last game ..Radwan quite comfortably handled Nadolo...

Tried the same thing in the pre season game and the new slimmer Nadolo got him though.

by Cumbrian Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:24 pm

Some really tasty match ups this weekend, the Quins vs. Sarries match looks like the pick of the bunch though.

Harlequins
1. Joe Marler
2. George Head
3. Will Collier
4. George Hammond
5. Irne Herbst
6. Jack Kenningham
7. Will Evans
8. Alex Dombrandt (c)

9. Lewis Gjaltema
10. Tommaso Allan
11. Cadan Murley
12. Lennox Anyanwu
13. Luke Northmore
14. Joe Marchant
15. Tyrone Green

REPLACEMENTS: 16. Jack Walker, 17. Simon Kerrod, 18. Wilco Louw, 19. Dino Lamb, 20. Archie White, 21. Jack Stafford, 22. Will Edwards, 23. Hayden Hyde.

Saracens:
1. Eroni Mawi
2. Tom Woolstencroft
3. Christian Judge
4. Maro Itoje
5. Hugh Tizard
6. Theo McFarland
7. Ben Earl
8. Billy Vunipola

9. Ivan van Zyl
10. Owen Farrell (c)
11. Alex Lewington
12. Nick Tompkins
13. Alex Lozowski
14. Max Malins
15. Elliot Daly

REPLACEMENTS: 16. Jamie George, 17. Mako Vunipola, 18. Alec Clarey, 19. Andy Christie, 20. Jackson Wray, 21. Aled Davies, 22. Manu Vunipola, 23. Duncan Taylor.

by Cumbrian Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:25 pm

Wasps:
1 Robin Hislop, 2 Tom Cruse, 3 John Ryan, 4 Joe Launchbury (C), 5 Kiran McDonald, 6 Tom Willis, 7 Jack Willis, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Will Porter, 10 Charlie Atkinson, 11 Josh Bassett, 12 Burger Odendaal, 13 Sam Spink, 14 Zach Kibirige, 15 Ali Crossdale

Replacements
16 Dan Frost, 17 Tom West, 18 Biyi Alo, 19 Tim Cardall
20 Nizaam Carr, 21 Dan Robson, 22 Ryan Mills, 23 Will Haydon-Wood

Bristol:
15. Charles Piutau (65 apps), 14. Luke Morahan (99 apps), 13. Piers O'Conor (109 apps), 12. Sam Bedlow (48 apps), 11. Jack Bates (22 apps); 10. Callum Sheedy (133 apps), 9. Harry Randall (86 apps); 1. Jake Woolmore (109 apps), 2. Will Capon (60 apps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (33 apps), 4. Joe Joyce (152 apps), 5. Chris Vui (94 apps), 6. Sam Jeffries (55 apps), 7. Jake Heenan (c) (66 apps), 8. Magnus Bradbury (1 apps).

Subs: 16. Bryan Byrne (33 apps), 17. Yann Thomas (90 apps), 18. Max Lahiff (41 apps), 19. Ed Holmes (86 apps), 20. Sam Lewis (1 apps), 21. Andy Uren (136 apps), 22. AJ MacGinty (1 apps), 23. Rich Lane (6 apps).

by Cumbrian Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:28 pm

Northampton Saints:

15 George Furbank
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Matt Proctor
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tom Collins
10 Dan Biggar (c)
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto
5 Alex Moon
6 Alex Coles
7 Aaron Hinkley
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Alfie Petch
19 Brandon Nansen
20 Angus Scott-Young
21 Callum Braley
22 Tom Litchfield
23 Courtnall Skosan

London Irish:
15 Henry Arundell, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Benhard van Rensburg, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ben White, 1 Facundo Gigena, 2 Matt Cornish, 3 Lovejoy Chawatama, 4 Rob Simmons, 5 Adam Coleman (c), 6 Ben Donnell, 7 Tom Pearson, 8 Matt Rogerson.

Replacements:
16 Isaac Miller, 17 Danilo Fischetti, 18 Ciaran Parker, 19 Api Ratuniyarawa, 20 Chandler Cunningham-South, 21 Caolan Englefield, 22 Luca Morisi, 23 Will Joseph.

by Cumbrian Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:31 pm

Bath:

15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, 10 Piers Francis, 9 Ben Spencer

; 1 Lewis Boyce, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Aranos Coetzee, 4 Dave Attwood, 5 Josh McNally, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Wesley White, 8 Jaco Coetzee

16 Tom Doughty, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Will Spencer, 20 GJ van Velze, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Richard de Carpentier

Sale:

15 Luke James, 14 Tom Roebuck, 13 Sam James, 12 Manu Tuilagi, 11 Tom O'Flaherty, 10 Rob du Preez, 9 Gus Warr; 1 Simon McIntyre, 2 Akker van der Merwe, 3 Nick Schonert, 4 Cobus Wiese, 5 Jonny Hill, 6 Jean-Luc du Preez, 7 Ben Curry (c), 8 Dan du Preez

16 Ewan Ashman, 17 Ross Harrison, 18 James Harper, 19 Jono Ross, 20 Tom Curry, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Tom Curtis, 23 Aaron Reed

by Heaf Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:32 pm

Some debate on other forums re rest periods as Sarries seem fully stacked but Smith not allowed to play for Quins - does anyone understand the rules?

by Cumbrian Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:42 pm

There are players/ combinations worth keeping an eye on in most of the matches, especially from an England perspective.

At inside centre you see Lennox Anyanwu and Manu Tuilagi.

At lock it is good to see Launchbury again, but I'm looking forward to see the Itoje/ Tizard combination. On the opposite side, it will be good to see how Hammond stands up to them.

There are exciting back 3 match ups all over the place.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:11 pm

Heaf wrote:Some debate on other forums re rest periods as Sarries seem fully stacked but Smith not allowed to play for Quins - does anyone understand the rules?

I presume it's based on the work load of the players last year. Tigers have welcomed all their England players bar Freddie Steward. The other England internationals had lighter playing loads last summer but Freddie played in 32 games so sort of makes sense for him to have the full 10 weeks off. Smith played 30 games starting 27 which is a fairly heavy load. Farrell missed a period of the 6N. The one that surprised me was Itoje, he played a lot of games last season including the Lions Tour. Surely he should have had an extra week off. Jamie George might be in a similar position.

by No 7&1/2 Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:34 pm

Some have been given dispensation though. Minutes on the pitch probably fair but I have to admit I'm not up to speed in whether position is taken into account. By my feeble guess I'm thinking it probably takes less out of you at a lower risk at fly half than it does at lock.

by westisbest Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:37 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Northampton Saints:

15 George Furbank
14 Ollie Sleightholme
13 Matt Proctor
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tom Collins
10 Dan Biggar (c)
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Paul Hill
4 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto
5 Alex Moon
6 Alex Coles
7 Aaron Hinkley
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Mike Haywood
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Alfie Petch
19 Brandon Nansen
20 Angus Scott-Young
21 Callum Braley
22 Tom Litchfield
23 Courtnall Skosan

London Irish:
15 Henry Arundell, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Curtis Rona, 12 Benhard van Rensburg, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ben White, 1 Facundo Gigena, 2 Matt Cornish, 3 Lovejoy Chawatama, 4 Rob Simmons, 5 Adam Coleman (c), 6 Ben Donnell, 7 Tom Pearson, 8 Matt Rogerson.

Replacements:
16 Isaac Miller, 17 Danilo Fischetti, 18 Ciaran Parker, 19 Api Ratuniyarawa, 20 Chandler Cunningham-South, 21 Caolan Englefield, 22 Luca Morisi, 23 Will Joseph.

That Irish back 3 is quality. Good to see Loader back and Arundell starting.

by Heaf Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:45 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Some have been given dispensation though. Minutes on the pitch probably fair but I have to admit I'm not up to speed in whether position is taken into account. By my feeble guess I'm thinking it probably takes less out of you at a lower risk at fly half than it does at lock.

Which makes Billy V playing and Smith not a bit of a puzzle as I think Billy played a lot of matches ...

by Poorfour Sun Sep 18, 2022 1:56 am

Quins doing ok so far, though.
I still expect Sarries will have too much, especially as Sir's interpretation of the breakdown suits them better, but I would be very happy if Quins came away with a BP, which seems very doable right now

by formerly known as Sam Sun Sep 18, 2022 2:00 am

Heaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Some have been given dispensation though. Minutes on the pitch probably fair but I have to admit I'm not up to speed in whether position is taken into account. By my feeble guess I'm thinking it probably takes less out of you at a lower risk at fly half than it does at lock.

Which makes Billy V playing and Smith not a bit of a puzzle as I think Billy played a lot of matches ...

32. Same as Steward who's still resting until next week.

by Poorfour Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:04 am

Really unhappy about how that ended. First Sir wasted half the remaining time resetting a lineout that Quins had already won because of an infringement by Saracens. Then he completely ignored a tackle off the ball on Allan, chasing his own kick.

I'd have taken the result before the game, but to have it end that way is very frustrating

by Geordie Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:17 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Gopperth ain't a great 10 but that pack is going to beat the living snot out of you .

Not quite as you predicted...

by No 7&1/2 Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:44 am

Was Gopperth decent?

by Geordie Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:21 am

No you can have that one.

by No 7&1/2 Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:54 am

Well if you got on top in the forwards well done. Wasn't expecting that.

by Geordie Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:05 am

Very close to 70 mins...then they got the points. We pushed them well.
We have players missing with injuries, kids playing and a new coaching team..so I'm still very optimistic...

Tigers are a good side though and will get better...

Two tough games down...no embarrassment...on we go.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:15 am

I've not seen the game but apparently Tigers struggled in the tactical kicking battle, not a massive surprise when down to our third flyhalf and fourth choice fullback. Falcons used that as a platform to apply good pressure, got some penalties out of us and used their lineout to decent effect. Lack of an openside for Tigers in the first half probably didn't help.

Porter and Nadolo both on song and were instrumental in the tries. Nadolo scoring a brace. Hopefully we can get Kelly back soon to help give the midfield a bit of added steel as the offy seems to think some of the defence was not as powerful as last season and Kelly was like an additional flanker last season. Steward should be back in next week as well which should be a huge boost at the back.

by Geordie Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:46 pm

We suffered our usual switch offs aswell Sam. Let you get ahead then battle back then boom total lack of concentration and concede again. That's a big mental aspect we have to fix...but I'm confident Walder will be looking at it.

Be interesting to see how we go with Moroni, Orlando, Chick, and Brocklebank back fit and if we can keep Collett fit now.

Not sure why Stephens isn't playing...he's not injured and so far better than Old man Tait these says.

by formerly known as Sam Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:45 pm

The lack of concentration you mention seems largely to be around trying to contain Nadolo which let's face it many teams have tried to do with varying levels of success over the years.

Getting your international centres back is likely to help the defence in the backs. I've not watched the full game yet but it sounds like Falcons were unlucky not to get at least a LBP.

From a Tigers POV it was better than last weekend and we should get some important players back for the derby day game next weekend, which we'll need quite frankly.

by Heaf Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:57 am

A lot of complaints about the TMO in the Saints/Irish match on other boards - I haven't seen the match yet but just seeing some highlights in the build-up to today's match on BT Sport I can see their point - one of the Saints tries had what looked like a pretty blatant obstruction ignored ...

by doctor_grey Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:53 am

For Saints-LI, I heard complaints from supporters of both sides, and there were those three LI yellows. But I thought Luke Pearce had a decent game. Each of those yellow cards for LI was right as was the yellow for Jimmy G..

The first 50 minutes were pretty sloppy and not sure how anyone could officiate it fairly without blowing a whistle every few phases. Pearce clearly didn't want to do that. But he did talk to teams abut behaviour. Not that there was a lot of skullduggery or off the ball stupid stuff. Just a bit hard to officiate. After the first 50 things settled down a bit.

by Margin_Walker Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:05 am

Pearce (and the TMO) were fine in the Saints/LI game. No complaints from me.

Edit - Obstruction point, sure it may have been blown by some refs. But then Rona running a potential blocking line in front of Loader for the last LI try may also have been blown. Swings and roundabouts.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:09 am

CMK and Tempest were fine in the Tigers Vs Falcons game, so a better weekend for the officials by the sounds of things. Good stuff.

Falcons half backs looked good, they really dipped when the replacement 10 came on. Porter was outstanding for Tigers. Brantingham largely top notch for Falcons, only real blemish was buying Youngs dummy for the second Nadolo try but let's face it Youngs has been getting change from that since Brantingham was in primary school. Falcons actually looked like had an attacking shape in sharp contrast to last season and Tigers actually looked to pass the ball this weekend.

by No 7&1/2 Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:34 pm

Didn't realise that Bath were playing against 10 men so early in the match. Any hope of an instant rebound with the new coach slipping away then!

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 am

Reports that Wasps are going into administration and will be relegated.

by geoff999rugby Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:09 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise that Bath were playing against 10 men so early in the match. Any hope of an instant rebound with the new coach slipping away then!

10 men !!! and still lost that is desperate

Prem Round 2 3933776953

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:17 am

Urgh. Football as a first love has much to answer for.

by king_carlos Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:48 am

Probably worth mentioning here the dire state of Wasps finances too. It seems there is a genuine chance they may go into administration or liquidation. The Premiership relegated Richmond and London Scottish for doing so.

If they were to go under Premiership Rugby need a genuine plan for what they will do as it raises complex problems. Especially if they went bust mid-season. In an ideal world a decision would be made in the next 6 weeks over whether Wasps are financial stable enough to make it through the season but with how Premiership Rugby operates that feels optimistic.

If they went bust mid-season what do we do with the table? Wipe all the points? Award TBP wins to those that haven't yet played them?

Is their share of the TV revenue used to remunerate clubs that will lose gate receipts from planned Wasps games?

What of their players? Whether EQP or non-EQP players who wish to continue playing in England they shouldn't be dumped in the cold IMO. Most clubs are to the cap or to their budget though. Could the RFU money allocated to Wasps and their cut of TV revenue be used to subsidise wages and some additional cap space at the other 12 Prem club to exclusively sign Wasps players?

Obviously my first reaction is how sad it would be for English rugby in general and especially Wasps fans were such a club to go under. Beyond that it raises many issues, none with easy solutions.

I posted that back in July on Wasps financial issues.

Whilst the saddest part of it is of course the potential loss of a club with their history and contribution to English rugby a club going bust midseason raises many questions about how the season then works which I'm willing to bet will be made up on the fly if necessary.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:09 am

Just as all eyes are on Worcester, the rug gets pulled from under us with Wasps.

Maybe we missed the obvious clues, like Wasps scrapping the Andy Goode hospitality room, which he has now relocated to Leicester.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2022/09/21/wasps-enter-administration-face-automatic-relegation/

king_carlos wrote:made up on the fly if necessary.

Sadly, that's how the English game has been run.

The assumption behind the Premiership shareholdings seemed to be that all club owners would seek to increase the value of the league. We've now had a multi-year game theory demonstration showing that, if at least one club acts in its own interests, at the expense of others, then the projext fails.

by Duty281 Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:17 am

Will professional rugby collapse entirely? The financial picture looks dire, and there's a menacing lawsuit on the horizon.

by stub Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am

Speaking from a Wuss perspective, things looking very bleak, difficult to see a way out now with the assets seemingly divided up… As you say Wasps also in dire straits makes the English league situation look interesting to say the least. Worrying times ahead which I hope can be effectively worked around somehow.

by No 7&1/2 Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:40 am

On the flip side there's too much rugby so from a player welfare perspective...

by king_carlos Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:00 am

stub wrote:Speaking from a Wuss perspective, things looking very bleak, difficult to see a way out now with the assets seemingly divided up… As you say Wasps also in dire straits makes the English league situation look interesting to say the least. Worrying times ahead which I hope can be effectively worked around somehow.

Lovely to see you back, stub.

Potentially losing two clubs and the reduction in games would have the knock on effect of 2 fewer home Premiership games for all the other clubs. I'm a big supporter of quality over quantity being needed in rugby but in the immediate term there may well be clubs that can't afford to lose that revenue.

This then raises the question of whether the TV revenue for this season gets split 11 ways or 13, etc, etc.

by king_carlos Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:03 am

Vital to mention that it's important for PRL to deliver what was promised to BT sport in terms of games to broadcast as well. TV companies can sometimes be the big baddy in sport but BT supported the Premiership clubs very well through covid in fairness to them. That relationship is of paramount importance for the league to protect in terms of immediate finances.

by stub Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:41 am

king_carlos wrote:
stub wrote:Speaking from a Wuss perspective, things looking very bleak, difficult to see a way out now with the assets seemingly divided up… As you say Wasps also in dire straits makes the English league situation look interesting to say the least. Worrying times ahead which I hope can be effectively worked around somehow.

Lovely to see you back, stub.

Potentially losing two clubs and the reduction in games would have the knock on effect of 2 fewer home Premiership games for all the other clubs. I'm a big supporter of quality over quantity being needed in rugby but in the immediate term there may well be clubs that can't afford to lose that revenue.

This then raises the question of whether the TV revenue for this season gets split 11 ways or 13, etc, etc.

Thanks for remembering me King Carlos

Yes, also occurred to me that a smaller league might actually be ultimately useful for top flight rugby as a whole. I always hoped that the English setup could support more, but as things stand I’m no longer sure that is the case.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:25 am

On the face of it, Worcester looks bust, while Waspsis still a going concern, which has now flunked its Premiership membership qualification.

This might put some strain on the requirement English players must play in England to be selected for the national side. There's little spare capacity at the remaining Premiership clubs, and a year in the Championship seemed to leave some of the Saracens regulars a bit undercooked.

by Geordie Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:57 pm

Speaking of Wuss, we play them this weekend.

Now we are going to go out play to our best, put our head where it hurts, potentially risk injury, maybe win the game and then find out a few days later that we have the points taken off us?

Wheres the incentive?

by Oakdene Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:33 pm

Geordie wrote:Speaking of Wuss, we play them this weekend.

Now we are going to go out play to our best, put our head where it hurts, potentially risk injury, maybe win the game and then find out a few days later that we have the points taken off us?

Wheres the incentive?

I think there is a good chance the game may not go ahead.

by Geordie Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:19 pm

Very possibly Oakdene.

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