Scotland World Cup buildup

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Italy
Saturday 29 July

Scotland v France
Saturday 5 August

France v Scotland
Saturday 12 August

Scotland v Georgia
Saturday 26 August

I think it's only fair to start another thread for this topic because I can see it being a popular topic in terms of discussion .

First things first is that 3 wins from 5 and a 3rd place finish probably exceeded expectations because most would have said 2 wins and the 4th place win, the one that most would have called was England to beat us as they were at home so imho we certainly deserve enormous credit for that one because we played very well against an England team that also had their moments, in fact I could already see improvements from the Eddie Jones era during that game and until DVDM clinched it at the death, I was still pretty worried we wouldn't win so was understandably over the moon that we did win.

The Wales and Italy matches were mixed bags tbh but we did get 5pts from both which was crucial, the Welsh game we didn't really perform first half and were in fact fortunate to go in at half time ahead but second half we were excellent and deserved the bonus point win.  The Italy game was a mixed bag in terms of; we had patches where we did well and others where we were hanging on, such as the last 2mins, I also felt that in that game our top centre pairing of Huwipulotu were quiet in attack though DVDM was a bit more involved that he had been in the previous few weeks before.

The France game was bloody frustrating because we showed glimpses of how well we can play especially in the second half for large parts but we were guilty of missing key opportunities and indiscipline from the captain of all people was our undoing which is where the frustration comes because as fans, we expect our captain to know what the ref will tolerate in terms of backchat!

The Ireland game was a game of 2 halfs, in the first half we were going toe to toe with them, it was probably the best we've played against them in a very long time; second half was a completely different story, we basically just capitalutated and handed the game to them with basic errors and more stupid indiscipline.

In terms of the coach, I have made my feelings known and really hope that the situation is resolved by at least mid to late April as we really need clarity on the situation!

Finally, for the summer warm up matches I'd like to see fringe players like Cameron Henderson, Ben Healy, Stafford McDowall, Kyle Rowe and Ollie Smith get some game time to see what they can offer either at the world cup (unlikely) or next 6N in 2024 .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65537320

Uncle Tom Grumpy seems in favour of the appointment.

As he says, however it pans out, it is unlikely to be dull!

NeilyBroon wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:What does Johnny Matthews have to do to get into the squad???

I know a guy who knows him and apparently he's not fussed, just happy to play for glasgow (dont think he's scottish, he's a geordie)

He is s Scouser!

Probably, not a lot in the hookers in all honesty, his lack of any international experience probably counting against him and he is not really sny younger than sny of the others.

Probably more of a surprise Fraser Brown not going.

I mean, I'd say between Matthews and Cherry he's the better pick on form at the moment but hey ho, rest of the squad looks good, nice to see wee Darcy back!

If they were picking on form, I am not sure anyone from the Luuvies would be in the team!


Cherry in fairness has had some decent games for Scotland and is probably a better player than he has shown for Edinburgh recently (could say the same for a few others as well!)

Hopefully Toonie can whip them back into shape.

BigGee wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65537320

Uncle Tom Grumpy seems in favour of the appointment.

As he says, however it pans out, it is unlikely to be dull!

I think it's for lack of better alternatives tbh.

Toonie has adapted a couple of times now, but I'd say the end of the 6Ns we were still left wanting. If we're near the crest of the hill Toonie still needs to take us there.

I hope there are decent release clauses because, as above, we've been here before, the post WC bounce with Tandy and now this last 6Ns.

Definitely worth a punt though and I'm not convinced by the other options that were floated, even razor!

What’s the odds of South Africa getting told they can’t come to France because their country is providing arms to Russian?

Let Kenya take their place that’s what I say!

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2023/05/12/analysing-scotlands-rugby-world-cup-training-squad/

A very good read on the Scotland training squad and the thoughts of the journalist on who will be cut when it's trimmed to 33 .

Apparently Tom Roebuck, the Inverness born Sale winger is actively considering a Scotland call up and could be a late addition to the WC squad, according to The Times.

He is a pretty prolific winger and at 23, has many good years ahead of him.

Let's hope he makes the right decesion!

I knew that would happen because the poor lad hasn't had a look in with England and tbh isn't likely to either when you consider who could still play for England such as Harry Potter and Adam Radwan and that's only 2 Wingers that must be really close to getting capped! Oh and even Arundell a FULL BACK has got game time this past year .

Hopefully he has a good game on Saturday . Oh and also I hope to see him at Hampden a week later cheering on his home city team to glory against Mighry Celtic .

That would be fantastic if Roebuck joined us. Bagged a try in the loss to Sarries today but so much potential.

Maitland winning another Premiership medal today as well. He may be out of contention for Scotland now but what a career. Possible the most silverware of any Scottish player in the pro era?

Steve Tandy, John Dalziel and Pete De Villiers all commit to Scotland through to 2025, alongside Toonie

That is a good bit of business, Tandy in particular would have been in demand. It also rules Dalziel out of the Edinburgh head coach job thst he may have been a contender for.

Brad Moar and Pete Horne, who were on the coaching ticket for the 6N are also going to be involved through to the end of the WC.

That might make Moar a contender for the Edinburgh job, you would imagine it is to soon for Horne.

The NZ mind coach, whose name I can't remember is also staying on for now.

A nice settled coaching set up for us then through the WC and onwards.

BigGee wrote:Steve Tandy, John Dalziel and Pete De Villiers all commit to Scotland through to 2025, alongside Toonie

That is a good bit of business, Tandy in particular would have been in demand. It also rules Dalziel out of the Edinburgh head coach job thst he may have been a contender for.

Brad Moar and Pete Horne, who were on the coaching ticket for the 6N are also going to be involved through to the end of the WC.

That might make Moar a contender for the Edinburgh job, you would imagine it is to soon for Horne.

The NZ mind coach, whose name I can't remember is also staying on for now.

A nice settled coaching set up for us then through the WC and onwards.

Settled squad coming into camp with confidence, settled coaching team - it's all shaping up for us losing to Romania isn't it?

Updated Shaun's OP to remind us of the summer internationals coming up.

Clarke Laidlaw, son of Roy and cousin of Greig is the new head coach of the Hurricanes, having moved from NZ Sevens.

He is putting together quite an impressive coaching CV and you wonder if he might be someone who would be interested in the Scotland job somewhere down the line?

Perhaps the SRU spoke to him already? It seemed like they interviewed several people before keeping Toonie on. Gréât chance for him to boost his impressive cv further and be in the mix next time.

Despite Ireland and France being very good in the 6N some of the nz rugby on show this season has been phenomenal. The rugby championship will provide some very entertaining rugby this year and hopefully muddy the waters heading into the World Cup.

Tuipolotu jnr signs a 2 year deals with the Waratahs, so won't be coming to Scotland anytime soon.

RDW wrote:Tuipolotu jnr signs a 2 year deals with the Waratahs, so won't be coming to Scotland anytime soon.

Maybe no bad thing, let him establish himself a bit more first and in the meantime, he keeps his options open.

It did seem like a lot of money to be waving in front of an untried player if the rumours about it were true.

Let's see where he is in 2 years time.

I watched the game against Crusaders where he started (Waratahs got pumped)

He has all the physical attributes that's for sure and had some nice touches but definitely got a lot of developing to do.

I always like Squidges analysis and he's also a self confessed Scotland fan on the side, looking forward to his Scotland preview!

Scotland to beat South Africa and Ireland but lose to Tonga and Romania

Tramptastic wrote:

Scotland to beat South Africa and Ireland but lose to Tonga and Romania

Don't joke about stuff like that, it could come back to haunt us

Watching the Top 14 Semi-Final and Finn Russell, playing for Racing Metro 92, is having a really poor game. Not great a showing in his last game for Racing before the RWC prep.

doctor_grey wrote:Watching the Top 14 Semi-Final and Finn Russell, playing for Racing Metro 92, is having a really poor game.  Not great a showing in his last game for Racing before the RWC prep.

Indeed, Russell did not have a good game, but neither did Racing, who just did not turn up. Toulouse on the other hand were just sublime.

It was a bit of a mismatch really, difficult to be to hard on Finn. The way Racing have been all season, a semi final was a pretty good showing from them. Toulouse and la Rochelle look the quality teams in the comp and you would imagine will be serving up a very watchable final next weekend.

BigGee wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Scotland to beat South Africa and Ireland but lose to Tonga and Romania

Don't joke about stuff like that, it could come back to haunt us

The Tonga side is looking pretty stacked for the world cup as well.

Not sure where else to put this but Tonga have added Adam Coleman and Pita Ahki to a very powerful squad.

1.Siegfied Fisi'ihoi
2.Sam Moli
3.Ben Tameifuna
4.Leva Fifita
5.Adam Coleman
6.Vaea Fifita
7.Sione Talitui
8.Lopeti Timani

9.Sonatane Takalua
10.Willi Havili

11.Solomone Kata
12.Pita Ahki
13.Malakai Fekitoa
14.Charles Piutau
15.Israel Foloa

16.Paul Ngauamo
17.David Lolohea
18.Joe Akipotoa
19.Sam Lousi
20.Solomone Funaki
21.Augustine Palu
22.George Moala
23.Afusipa Taumoepeau

The group was already ridiculous but the strength Tonga have gained from the new qualification laws has pushed it even further.

Poor Romania.

Tonga are a banana skin waiting to happen for someone

I just hope it's not Scotland!

BigGee wrote:Tonga are a banana skin waiting to happen for someone

I just hope it's not Scotland!

Narrator: "It was, indeed, Scotland"

Tramptastic wrote:

BigGee wrote:Tonga are a banana skin waiting to happen for someone

I just hope it's not Scotland!

Narrator: "It was, indeed, Scotland"

Yes and more likely after we have beaten SA or Ireland

Been reminding myself of the group fixtures, and for once we have a good schedule. That does make selection interesting for Toonie though - we could reasonably play our best team for every game, which we're not used to in a WC as we usually have a 4 day turnaround thrown in somewhere.

SA first - full metal jacket
Tonga 2 weeks later - first 23, maybe rotating a couple of players 
Romania 6 days after - full squad rotation or keep the momentum with the first team?
Ireland 7 days after - full metal jacket

My gut feel is go strongest squad for every game, but you don't want to lose the likes of Finn or Zander Fagerson for the Ireland game due to playing against Romania 

It is definitely a good thing to have 2 weeks after the SA game as we usually get a lot of injuries against them!

Id imagine Scotland will target the SA match. Scotland are good enough to get wins against anyone at this stage but not good enough to win four or five in a row yet in my view. However, win v SA and a bit of pressure will certainly be off. Wouldnt be surprised to see a "shock win" v SA and then a loss to Tonga.

I can safely say that Louisi & Fifita were our forwards of the year this season down West Wales.

Technically speaking we should win with ease against Tonga. It takes a lot more than a bunch of talented individuals thrown together to be successful at international level.

Unfortunately, sport sometimes ignores the 'technically' bit and I'm sure it will be a lot more stressful for us!

We’re Scotland.

We’ll beat SA, SA will beat Ireland, Ireland will beat us.

We’ll fail to get a TBP vs Tonga while SA and Ireland pump them. We’ll go out on points difference

Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

Sale and Sarries players won't join the England squad until next week.

jimbopip wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Correct. Either that or a quiet, blue blood investment banker who just cannot understand why he can't stop killing.

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Correct. Either that or a quiet, blue blood investment banker who just cannot understand why he can't stop killing.

What's he killing if he's drenched in blue blood?

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Correct. Either that or a quiet, blue blood investment banker who just cannot understand why he can't stop killing.

What's he killing if he's drenched in blue blood?

FES' distant relatives.

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Correct. Either that or a quiet, blue blood investment banker who just cannot understand why he can't stop killing.

What's he killing if he's drenched in blue blood?

FES' distant relatives.

Distant? They all look alike and sound the same...how distant can they be?

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

Highland Shaun wrote:Any news on Tom Roebuck because I see he hasn't been included in England's revised world cup squad which suggests he is still mulling over switching allegiance .

He'd be an excellent addition to our squad imho.

To paraphrase GC; he should be the best friend on a BBC Sunday afternoon classic children's novel dramatisation.

Correct. Either that or a quiet, blue blood investment banker who just cannot understand why he can't stop killing.

What's he killing if he's drenched in blue blood?

FES' distant relatives.

Distant? They all look alike and sound the same...how distant can they be?

To quote the great Jimmy Carr - "I'm not saying he's inbred but in his town they don't have brothers and sisters - they have BILFs and SILFs".

Rumour appearing on Reddit, yes I know , is that Hoggy is about to get dropped from the WC squad.The alleged offence?

Having been given permission to go to the common riding in Hawick, he then went on a 3 day booze binge.

Toonie found out and is not going to tolerate this behaviour, hence the decision to remove him.

I suppose we will know within a few days if this is bull or not.

I know he's a borders boy but surely he's not stupid enough to put his final world cup at risk just because he wanted to go out on the toon for 3 days???

Maybe he knows that the body is not up to it any more and this was his way of saying enough is enough.

To be honest, on any sort of form recently, he probably should not be in the squad!

What could Toonie have said yo drive Hoggy to drink?
" Sorry Stuart but Blairhorn is far and away the best 15 I've ever seen. You'll be on the bench...Unless we go 6-2".

That can’t be true haha. Would be mad if so. Especially given the depth across the back three now.

Sounds like nonsense, not least because the squad is currently on a holiday break albeit a 3 day bender wouldn't have been part of his training plan.

Sad thing is it probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it's true given his career!

RDW wrote:Sounds like nonsense, not least because the squad is currently on a holiday break albeit a 3 day bender wouldn't have been part of his training plan.

Sad thing is it probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it's true given his career!

Whoa, Laddie.  When did going on a bender not play a critical role training the body to function under stress?  I know people who swear by it....

doctor_grey wrote:

RDW wrote:Sounds like nonsense, not least because the squad is currently on a holiday break albeit a 3 day bender wouldn't have been part of his training plan.

Sad thing is it probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it's true given his career!

Whoa, Laddie.  When did going on a bender not play a critical role training the body to function under stress?  I know people who swear by it....

I'm still trying to get my head around Toonie looking at a player who is behind Duhan, ADHD Kid, Seaman and No Maits as a winger ...also way behind Hoggy as a 15 and then deciding he could start ahead of the best 10 Scotland have ever had.

If I was being talked at by Toonie on a daily basis I think the occasional bender might seem the sensible option.

doctor_grey wrote:

RDW wrote:Sounds like nonsense, not least because the squad is currently on a holiday break albeit a 3 day bender wouldn't have been part of his training plan.

Sad thing is it probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it's true given his career!

Whoa, Laddie.  When did going on a bender not play a critical role training the body to function under stress?  I know people who swear by it....

You're a Doctor so if that's what you advise I must be an International class athlete!

jimbopip wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

RDW wrote:Sounds like nonsense, not least because the squad is currently on a holiday break albeit a 3 day bender wouldn't have been part of his training plan.

Sad thing is it probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it's true given his career!

Whoa, Laddie.  When did going on a bender not play a critical role training the body to function under stress?  I know people who swear by it....

I'm still trying to get my head around Toonie looking at a player who is behind Duhan, ADHD Kid, Seaman and No Maits as a winger ...also way behind Hoggy as a 15 and then deciding he could start ahead of the best 10 Scotland have ever had.

If I was being talked at by Toonie on a daily basis I think the occasional bender might seem the sensible option.

You just reminded me that my mother-in-law is arriving on Sunday to stay for the rest of the summer.....

As Les Dawson once said, "I always know when the mother in law is about to arrive; the mice start throwing themselves on the traps."