Champions Cup Quarter Finals 2023

First topic message reminder :

Quarter-finals

Friday, April 7th:
Leinster v Leicester Tigers, Aviva Stadium, 8pm

Saturday, April 8th:
Toulouse v Cell C Sharks, Stade Ernest Wallon, 4pm;
Exeter v DHL Stormers, Sandy Park, 5.30pm

Sunday, April 9th:
La Rochelle v Saracens, Stade Marcel Deflandre, 4pm

Brace is guessing in the scrums now

Jeepers Heaf - are you teams ever beaten fairly or is it only just bent refs stop you winning everything?

the Scrums I have seen Sarries were lucky to keep 15 men on the park - constant infringing

Billy broken again ...

So LR go straight off their feet at the ruck and he says Sarries pulled out - exactly the same as the one earlier that went against Sarries ... asymmetric officiating again

Turnovers are killing Sarries too - not sure I'm seeing clear releases all the time however

Tackling off the ball, head shots - LR can do what they like and guess what, no replays

Or - illegal shoulder charges, high tackles, constant cheating at scrums, constantly offside - Sarries just do not get penalised as they should

Heaf wrote:Turnovers are killing Sarries too - not sure I'm seeing clear releases all the time however

Its not been the tackler getting the steals

Nah - LR gifted the win v Glaws and now Brace helping them out today too ...

TJ wrote:

Heaf wrote:Turnovers are killing Sarries too - not sure I'm seeing clear releases all the time however

Its not been the tackler getting the steals

But the tackled player has to be allowed the place the ball by the tackler releasing ...

And LR allowed to go off feet at rucks whilst Sarries instantly pinged ...

And first man in has a right to that ball

Perhaps looking at the laws might help you understand

Maybe Sarries are not really that good? slower to everything etc. Remember they struggled to get past Edinburgh - who are one of the bottom URC teams

Glaws ain't exactly anywhere near the top of the prem and with decent officiating they would have knocked LR out last week - who were at home, so comparing previous results is meaningless ...

Re the laws I have read them thanks ...

'The actions of players involved in the tackle must ensure a fair contest and allow the ball to be available for play immediately."

So if the tackler doesn't release to allow the tackled player to place the ball then it's a pen ...

And to be clear - I'm not saying LR aren't the better team at the moment - but that doesn't mean the officials are doing a good job ...

also it doesn't mean there isn't a real issue with the TV directors only replaying what suits the home team, especially in France ...

Saracens will have no shot unless they can get their hands on the ball.

That was a complete shambles by Brace

Heaf wrote:also it doesn't mean there isn't a real issue with the TV directors only replaying what suits the home team, especially in France ...

Irrelevant - the TMO checked it behind the scenes as Brace told Farrell. TMO has all angles at their call

I wasn't talking about one incident - there were multiple things that would have been endlessly replayed to get the crowd baying if they had been on the other foot - If you think the local TV director doesn't have an influence then you're being a bit naive IMO

Plus Farrell was complaining about a pull back and a head shot - not sure if the TMO really did look for both as it did look like Farrell had been interfered with before the ball was passed to him ...

Do you have a tin foil hat? I know where you can get one

The broadcaster did not play "endless replays" of the 3 high tackles in one sequence.

Heaf wrote:Plus Farrell was complaining about a pull back and a head shot - not sure if the TMO really did look for both as it did look like Farrell had been interfered with before the ball was passed to him ...

Which was shown on replay and there was no early tackle and no head shot - and that is the one Brace said the TMO was looking at

Give the LR player a red for trying to buy a pen ...

TJ wrote:Do you have a tin foil hat?  I know where you can get one

The broadcaster did not play "endless replays" of the 3 high tackles in one sequence.

Not sure which ones you're talking about ... but they also didn't look at the shoulder to head of Earl - tbf he had dipped a bit but it should have been looked at as could have been yellow ...

Tin foil hat a bit much - didn't say early tackle but looked like an arm grab maybe

Not sure I agree with the crowd on that call...
(not that it will change the outcome of the game)

Sarries player only gets a yellow for a deliberate swinging arm to head

You see two folk can be one eyed as well :-)

Sounded like Brace was going to go red but Joy N talked him down to yellow. Would also be interesting to see the start of that phase in slow-mo as Skelton may have hit Itoje in the head but would need a different angle to see ...

TJ wrote:Sarries player only gets a yellow for a deliberate swinging arm to head

You see two folk can be one eyed as well :-)

Come on be honest TJ - we know you're a card-carrying member of the ABE club

Actually Sarries are a team I follow and support. along with Exeter they are my english clubs

Poor match all round - both teams underwhelming and officials poor from start to finish ...  LR will get spanked in the semi if they play like this - unless they get a free ride again

EDIT - I meant the final if they get past Chiefs ...

TJ wrote:Actually Sarries are a team I follow and support.  along with Exeter they are my english clubs

I can't tell if you're joking or not ...

To me, the gap between Saracens and La Rochelle was larger than the scoreline. I haven't seen any match stats but would like to know how much possession La Rochelle had in the second half.

Heaf wrote:Poor match all round - both teams underwhelming and officials poor from start to finish ...  LR will get spanked in the semi if they play like this - unless they get a free ride again

EDIT - I meant the final if they get past Chiefs ...

LR poor??? . They were awesome, their scrum and breakdown is frighteningly good.

I said underwhelming - perhaps not the best choice of word - I just thought the other 3 quarters were much more entertaining matches ... and I thought both Leinster and Toulouse showed much more attacking flair ...

Well I watched all match and La Rochelle better team. That's it really. Brace definitely seemed to favour them but I wouldn't say he determined the result. Botia was superb at breakdown, La Rochelle scrum was stronger and Saracens got close several times but just couldn't finish. Couple held up over line etc.

Watched a few games over the weekend, still not feeling it as much as I used to with the HC.

Anyway....I thought Leinster were particularly good....but I'm loving the fallout of Wiggies comments about budgets even more. It felt a bit like sour grapes from Dickie, but some of the response from Leinster fans has been brilliant.

I don't know what the issue is with Leinster fans being so defensive/in denial about what their players may earn....I've seen some crackers suggesting the top players on 120k and money is not one of the primary goals for playing for Leinster...of course it isn't.

They're a top top team/squad and top teams pay their players well....whether directly, from the unions or through tax breaks....top players earn top wages.

Agreed La Rochelle were better - my point was the officiating was poor and inconsistent ...

Heaf wrote:Agreed La Rochelle were better - my point was the officiating was poor and inconsistent ...

Yea it wasn't great, but either were Sarries really.

I know what you mean Sgt - although they've been involved in some entertaining games I'm still somewhat uneasy about having SA teams in a European competition. Add in the lack of a level playing field and some hugely inconsistent officiating and it just seems to have lost something - unless it's just nostalgia making us remember the old days differently ...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Heaf wrote:Agreed La Rochelle were better - my point was the officiating was poor and inconsistent ...

Yea it wasn't great, but either were Sarries really.

True that will be one to forget for them ...

Heaf wrote:I know what you mean Sgt - although they've been involved in some entertaining games I'm still somewhat uneasy about having SA teams in a European competition.  Add in the lack of a level playing field and some hugely inconsistent officiating and it just seems to have lost something - unless it's just nostalgia making us remember the old days differently ...

For me, I'm happy the SA teams are playing in the Euro Rugby. I think they add a lot: Different players, teams, challenges keep it interesting. And I think the integration of the SA teams into UK/Europe will continue in the upcoming seasons.

In the past when Rugby was financially stronger the differences between the top teams was less and it always seemed as if more of the sides had at least a punchers chance. Currently the top two nations, France and Ireland, have three of the Euro semi-finalists, which could have been four if Exeter didn't pull that Montpellier game out of it's proverbial hat. France and Ireland (or is it Ireland and France?) have very different financial models which tells me the financial model is not as important as who is working within each business and how unified they are to execute their plans. Which somehow, painfully, brings us back to England....

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Watched a few games over the weekend, still not feeling it as much as I used to with the HC.

Anyway....I thought Leinster were particularly good....but I'm loving the fallout of Wiggies comments about budgets even more. It felt a bit like sour grapes from Dickie, but some of the response from Leinster fans has been brilliant.

I don't know what the issue is with Leinster fans being so defensive/in denial about what their players may earn....I've seen some crackers suggesting the top players on 120k and money is not one of the primary goals for playing for Leinster...of course it isn't.

They're a top top team/squad and top teams pay their players well....whether directly, from the unions or through tax breaks....top players earn top wages.

Irish fans love being the underdog, so some are finding it hard to accept what Leinster have built both on and off the pitch. That mindset is slowly changing but is still there in a lot of fans. I've never denied the wages that Leinster are able to pay players and am proud of it as its been built up through years of hard work.

I found Wigglesworth, Baxters and McFarlands comments a bit embarrassing to be honest and I think Leo Cullen has handled all their nonsense with such class. One that sticks out in particular is, Baxter complaining about Leinster getting a home knockout in each HC game? I've also seen loads of fans of other clubs give out about this.
Firstly, Leinster earned the right through their performances in the group stage
Secondly, the "neutral" home semi final and random draw was abolished by the EPCR soon after they took control of the competition.
And finally Dubin was awarded the final before the season even started, the first time in 10 years in fact. Are we not allowed to host the final?

Im sure if Leinster win the PRL and French rugby will come together again and try to change everything to suit themselves once again. The way they choose finals in the last ten years has been a bit of a joke really. Still after almost 30 years it has never been held in Rome and been held in England twice as many times as everywhere else.

Collapse2005 wrote:Im sure if Leinster win the PRL and French rugby will come together again and try to change everything to suit themselves once again. The way they choose finals in the last ten years has been a bit of a joke really. Still after almost 30 years it has never been held in Rome and been held in England twice as many times as everywhere else.

It was due to be held in Rome before it was taken off the ERC if I remember correctly. I think they want to go where they are guaranteed to sell tickets, the tournament is just not as appealing as it once was and crowds have suffered. This is why they've gotten rid of the neutral semi final too, crowds just aren't guaranteed anymore.

Collapse2005 wrote:Im sure if Leinster win the PRL and French rugby will come together again and try to change everything to suit themselves once again. The way they choose finals in the last ten years has been a bit of a joke really. Still after almost 30 years it has never been held in Rome and been held in England twice as many times as everywhere else.

Woe is me.

Leinster have done a phenominal job in building themselves to where they are now, they took risks as well and were rewarded, they were not afraid to take those risks knowing it could go the other way.

While they have a large budget now you also have to recognise the vast majority of their players in recent times come from their academy. It's not like they are just finding the best players across the world and paying them huge money. They cultivate these prospects through good scouting of Leinster and good coaching in their academy and club sides plus the fact that they aren't afraid to throw these guys into the first team and give them game time.

Indeed they produce enough through the academy that a bunch have went on to become good provinicial players elsewhere too. Often we all look at Leinster and want to run them down (trust me when you constantly get beat by them like we do at Ulster I get that) or say it is all simply down to money but truth is Leinsters model is probably one more sides should be looking at closer and working out how they can use bits of it within their own model to make them better. Certainly Ulster could do with a good dose of that although our incompetant management likely wouldn't recognise a good idea if it slapped them in the face.

I'll be in Dublin for that final and I hope to see them there, either way though Leinster v Toulouse is going to be appointment viewing

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Im sure if Leinster win the PRL and French rugby will come together again and try to change everything to suit themselves once again. The way they choose finals in the last ten years has been a bit of a joke really. Still after almost 30 years it has never been held in Rome and been held in England twice as many times as everywhere else.

Woe is me.

Thats about as weak a response as you can hope for.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Im sure if Leinster win the PRL and French rugby will come together again and try to change everything to suit themselves once again. The way they choose finals in the last ten years has been a bit of a joke really. Still after almost 30 years it has never been held in Rome and been held in England twice as many times as everywhere else.

It was due to be held in Rome before it was taken off the ERC if I remember correctly. I think they want to go where they are guaranteed to sell tickets, the tournament is just not as appealing as it once was and crowds have suffered. This is why they've gotten rid of the neutral semi final too, crowds just aren't guaranteed anymore.

Its really sad that some people are actually complaining about the final being in Dublin when you consider the last two finals Leinster have been in they have played a side from the country the final has been in.