Relegation in the Premiership (again)

by doctor_grey Tue 25 Apr 2023, 5:14 pm

I would like people opinions. I have started to see and hear the Premiership top 4 being (almost) completely locked in with a week to go is due to the lack of relegation. And any lack of excitement is due to the same. The logic as I understand it is that if there was relegation more teams would be fighting which could have caused upsets and potentially change the order throughout the standings making it more likely the table would be compressed a bit. And that would lead to meaningful games in the last week of the season. To me, this is just one of those seasons when things broke poorly on the 'meaningful' scale. A good example is Sale going down to 13 men against Saints and Saints pulled it out by a whisker. So a fluke, from a standings point of view. And a relegation battle with Nuke and Barf or Gloucester doesn't grab me.

What do you think?

by Heaf Tue 25 Apr 2023, 5:44 pm

My impression was it was more competitive this season with teams down to 8th still in with a chance of making the playoffs up to last weekend?

Also I think we've seen more attacking rugby with teams near the bottom playing to win rather than playing not to lose to avoid relegation.

Finally relegation takes too big a toll on teams IMO - if Tigers hadn't been saved by Sarries finally getting done for cheating I doubt they'd be the current champs. Having said that I would have loved to see Bath go down so we could maybe asset-strip them as they've done to Irish before ...

by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 May 2023, 9:50 am

Slightly off track but I can't find the original thread on prem finances...

Looks like the London Irish staff haven't been paid in April. (The Times)

by Pete330v2 Tue 02 May 2023, 12:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly off track but I can't find the original thread on prem finances...

Looks like the London Irish staff haven't been paid in April. (The Times)

I was just reading that, it seems the US consortium hasn't fulfilled promises in regards to payments. Not good for LI at all, fingers crossed it comes good.

by doctor_grey Tue 02 May 2023, 12:24 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly off track but I can't find the original thread on prem finances...

Looks like the London Irish staff haven't been paid in April. (The Times)

I was just reading that, it seems the US consortium hasn't fulfilled promises in regards to payments. Not good for LI at all, fingers crossed it comes good.

I know this might seem a reach, but I think there is a good possibility this is a step taken to force the issue and force the deal to close. The group looking to acquire LI made the payments last month and I doubt they are on the rack for funds this month. Things would never have progressed so far if they were.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 02 May 2023, 12:25 pm

Telegraph has picked it up:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/05/02/london-irish-fails-to-pay-wages-premiership-finances/

London Irish employees are yet to be paid for the month of April, triggering concern about the collapse of a third Premiership club this season.

Telegraph Sport understands that players and staff have been called to a meeting at 8.30am on Tuesday. It was hoped that they will receive confirmation that their salaries, which had been promised on Monday, are to come through later on Tuesday.

London Irish is reportedly on the verge of being taken over by an American consortium with Howard Thomas, a former chief executive of Premiership Rugby, said to be involved. Sources have indicated that company accounts and complications regarding the Bank Holiday weekend have been offered up as excuses for the delay in pay.

Concern has understandably arisen given that missed pay runs were the red flags that foreshadowed the respective demises of Worcester Warriors and Wasps earlier this season.

Last month, Irish were moved to issue a statement in response to a Daily Mail story, denying that employees were in danger of missing their salaries for March.

“It has been public knowledge that the club is exploring its options with regards to investment, however no comment will be made until there is anything to announce,” it read.

“In regards to recent media reports, London Irish can categorically confirm that all staff will be paid this month. Anything reported to the contrary is pure speculation.”

On the pitch, Irish are on course for their best season since 2009, when they lost 10-9 to Leicester Tigers in the final at Twickenham. Declan Kidney’s side have narrowly missed out on the play-offs, but will secure a fifth-place league finish if they avoid defeat to Exeter Chiefs on the final day.

They have also begun to announce new signings for next season. The impending arrival of Tom Collins, a versatile back-three flyer from Northampton Saints, was confirmed last month.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 May 2023, 12:42 pm

They must still be losing out on some sponsorship with the fly half still there too.

by formerly known as Sam Tue 02 May 2023, 1:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:They must still be losing out on some sponsorship with the fly half still there too.

Catch 22 though isn't it because where else are they going to find a like for like quality flyhalf? Sure he's not that cheap but neither would a replacement be and with respect to LI any replacement would have a lot of other options.

by SirBurger Tue 02 May 2023, 2:28 pm

It's some take...given the amount of money Irish were spending at the time they brought Jackson in, any suitable replacement would, at best, have saved them 100-200k. The lost sponsorship was, by all accounts, minimal (the deal with Guinness was tiny). In the interim period, Irish have moved up the leagues and brought in new sponsorship. To place current problems at Jackson's door given the pandemic fall-out, rising inflation and the structural issues that affect the club (not owning its own ground) is bizarre. You can dislike the bloke, or even perversely think that this is the club getting its comeuppance (if you really oppose the Jackson signing to such an extent that you would want a club rooted in its community, employing hundreds of people to go bust), but this really isn't Jackson's fault.

PS. realise that this isn't exactly what you were saying No 7.5, but have seen others on social media implying similar and it doesn't really make any sense.

by Margin_Walker Tue 02 May 2023, 2:55 pm

Yep, regardless on opinions on the Jackson signing, people on Twitter trying to draw a line of causation are reaching a bit.

When he signed Powerday (the owner's firm) were the shirt sponsors. That's always a pretty decent sign that there are no 'major' sponsors banging the door down even before he came on board. As SirB says, whilst high profile, the Guinness involvement at the time was minimal.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 02 May 2023, 4:08 pm

SirBurger wrote:It's some take...given the amount of money Irish were spending at the time they brought Jackson in, any suitable replacement would, at best, have saved them 100-200k. The lost sponsorship was, by all accounts, minimal (the deal with Guinness was tiny). In the interim period, Irish have moved up the leagues and brought in new sponsorship. To place current problems at Jackson's door given the pandemic fall-out, rising inflation and the structural issues that affect the club (not owning its own ground) is bizarre. You can dislike the bloke, or even perversely think that this is the club getting its comeuppance (if you really oppose the Jackson signing to such an extent that you would want a club rooted in its community, employing hundreds of people to go bust), but this really isn't Jackson's fault.

PS. realise that this isn't exactly what you were saying No 7.5, but have seen others on social media implying similar and it doesn't really make any sense.

Fair dos. Not saying it'll be all down to him but I do want him to retire ASAP.

by geoff999rugby Wed 03 May 2023, 10:20 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not saying it'll be all down to him but I do want him to retire ASAP.

He is going nowhere for some time - a good 4/5 years left.

Also when making a judgement on events best to stick to the facts as presented rather than the ill informed rants of social media.
One of my regular group is a policeman in the PSNI - he maintains it would never have even been a conviction except for the social outcry and a
barrister seeing an opportunity to make a name for himself.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 May 2023, 10:30 am

There's always injury.

by geoff999rugby Wed 03 May 2023, 10:49 am

Wishing an injury on any player is unjustified in all circumstances

by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 May 2023, 11:40 am

Unjustified? Take from it what you like, but I can't help hoping it anyway.

by geoff999rugby Wed 03 May 2023, 2:38 pm

You can hope but that says more about you than it does about him.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 May 2023, 4:35 pm

I'd agree it draws a line in the sand as to where my morals are!

by geoff999rugby Wed 03 May 2023, 4:40 pm

Wishing physical injury on someone found unanimously innocent of an alleged crime - indeed it does !

by No 7&1/2 Wed 03 May 2023, 4:45 pm

Bless you and your forgiving nature!

by mikey_dragon Wed 03 May 2023, 10:00 pm

Anyway, are LI actually going down the shi|t£r too? I’ve seen a couple news outlets mention it. Any more axed, it’s surely paving the way for 4 Welsh Regions to joint the English Premiership…

by doctor_grey Fri 05 May 2023, 5:54 am

London Irish: Owner Mick Crossan pays overdue wages after deadline set

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/65483856

by formerly known as Sam Fri 05 May 2023, 7:52 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Anyway, are LI actually going down the shi|t£r too? I’ve seen a couple news outlets mention it. Any more axed, it’s surely paving the way for 4 Welsh Regions to joint the English Premiership…

The Prem does need more financially unstable teams propping up the league.

LI are about to be taken over by an American consortium so they'll be injecting funds. There's also rumours Brentford want to buy them out of their rental agreement which will net them a nice little sum. Give them chance to move somewhere more manageable.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 05 May 2023, 9:48 am

doctor_grey wrote:London Irish: Owner Mick Crossan pays overdue wages after deadline set

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/65483856

Sounds like its by the skin of teeth stuff and he's paid it so several don't walk away for free.

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