Welsh World Cup Squad - Flyhalfs

Steven Jones has been the incumbent flyhalf since Neil Jenkins retired back in 2001. Almost un-opposed and un-userped.

A few players have added pressure to him, even taken the chalice for a few games, which often encouraged the very best out of ol'Wellies.

The other contenders and I guess current favourite from the six nations are headed by james hook but the squad includes a number of lads who could make the position their own if given a run.

I guess that we would take two flyhalfs, Henson, Hook and Priestland can all play multiple positions so take that in to consideration.

Will be interesting for people who wish to to state their first and second choice ten?

Steven Jones (Scarlets) 100 Caps (899 Points) Lions 6 Caps (53 Points)

Jason Tovey (Dragons) 0 Caps

Rhys Priestland (Scarlets) 2 Caps

James Hook (Perpignan) 52 Caps (277 Points)

Gavin Henson (Unattached) 31 Caps (130 Points) Lions 1 Cap

Nicky Robinson (Wasps) 12 Caps (99 Points)

For me it has to be Stephen Jones, as he is great in defence, dependable and steady when on the back foot and doesn't crab. At least until Hook can start playing regularly at 10 and developing his game there (for a start it would be nice for him to know where he's going to be playing from 1 game to the next) - I like Priestland and Tovey very much but both are too green to be thrown in the deep end in such a physical WC group.

Voted Stevo, Priestland and Hook (so i won't vote Hook or Priestland else where to ballence it out).

a vote for henson, that will be controversial... any explanation please voter? He is usually considered a center, but could be considered a back up. Though he hasnt played at ten for a very long time.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Voted Stevo, Priestland and Hook (so i won't vote Hook or Priestland else where to ballence it out).

Same.

Risca Rev wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Voted Stevo, Priestland and Hook (so i won't vote Hook or Priestland else where to ballence it out).

Same.

and me

why would anyone vote henson?? firstly not even guaranteed to go to WC, and if he goes anywhere he goes as centre back up. Also to be fly half you need to control things Henson cant even control his life atm.

I personally don't want Tovey or Preistland anywhere near this RWC squad and don't subcribe to the calls for their inclusion either.

My group stage matches would consist of rotations between Stephen Jones and James Hook split and would be decided on posession ratio. If we're in close physical games we're competing heavily for posession then Jones would be on the field until we at least managed to gain a convincing lead - if that is ever possible. His defence far surpases Hook's on almost all occasion.

I still believe Hook going to USAP might be the making of him at 10 (as it arguably was with Jones at ASM) but needs to benched at 10 or on the field at 12/13 depending on the attack plan (IF one exists).

Open games you could argue that Hook's ability to use space is superior, but what you get with Hook is the unpredictability when confronted by harder blitz defences. Too often Hook looks to penerate when the drift is almost is at threshold i.e. within metres of the attacking line and he'll often try to switch direction when in closed quarters. That for me, is far too great a risk - especially when he's found in isolation. Jones is better in this position because he's stronger in the contact and can hold ground until sufficient cover is there to form ruck ball.

There's only one game where Hook has played 10 in recent times and actually looked superior and in control, and that was against Scotland in this years' 6N (and by contrast, the Scotland had a mare of a day). That says it all for me.

Barry John III wrote:I personally don't want Tovey or Preistland anywhere near this RWC squad and don't subcribe to the calls for their inclusion either.

My group stage matches would consist of rotations between Stephen Jones and James Hook split and would be decided on posession ratio. If we're in close physical games we're competing heavily for posession then Jones would be on the field until we at least managed to gain a convincing lead - if that is ever possible. His defence far surpases Hook's on almost all occasion.

I still believe Hook going to USAP might be the making of him at 10 (as it arguably was with Jones at ASM) but needs to benched at 10 or on the field at 12/13 depending on the attack plan (IF one exists).

Open games you could argue that Hook's ability to use space is superior, but what you get with Hook is the unpredictability when confronted by harder blitz defences. Too often Hook looks to penerate when the drift is almost is at threshold i.e. within metres of the attacking line and he'll often try to switch direction when in closed quarters. That for me, is far too great a risk - especially when he's found in isolation. Jones is better in this position because he's stronger in the contact and can hold ground until sufficient cover is there to form ruck ball.

There's only one game where Hook has played 10 in recent times and actually looked superior and in control, and that was against Scotland in this years' 6N (and by contrast, the Scotland had a mare of a day). That says it all for me.

I also thought Hook shone against Ireland, in the kind of pragmatic and armchair way that is unlike his normal fashion...!

Jones and Hook are dead certs to go.

Personally I'd take both Henson (covering 10 and 12) and Priestland (covering 10 and 15) as well.

For Priestland, much would depend on how he went in the warm-ups, but I'd certainly look to give him some game time before making the final decision.

One of the reasons I didn't back the 17/13 split for Wales.

Barry John III wrote:I personally don't want Tovey or Preistland anywhere near this RWC squad and don't subcribe to the calls for their inclusion either.

we need another fly half and priestland more than deserves to be in the world cup squad, most consistant in form 10 in wales. We need two "TRUE" 10's and as good as hook is, he is not a proven fly half YET.

maestegmafia wrote: I also thought Hook shone against Ireland, in the kind of pragmatic and armchair way that is unlike his normal fashion...!

There were obvious glimpses, let's not take that away, but I still consider Jones's experience to be the quality we need above all else in this tournament. My gut feeling is that USAP will allow Hook to really shine in that position and at 26, post RWC he'll will be Wales 1st choice 10. Not because Jones will likely retire, but because he will have hopefully earned it and have proven to us that he's the 10 HE believes he's capable of being.

Players like Tovey, Preistland, Biggar and the rest can bide their time and fight for spots over the next 8-10 years!

wellies is still our best flyhalf. hook is our best centre but he will go to rwc as another option at flyhalf.

preistland should go as 3rd choice fh and back up fullback.

welshy824 wrote:
we need another fly half and priestland more than deserves to be in the world cup squad, most consistant in form 10 in wales. We need two "TRUE" 10's and as good as hook is, he is not a proven fly half YET.

I don't agree with: ''most consistent in form'' - sorry, I genuinely don't, Scarlets fans might see it that way, but sorry I like to look at things a little more broadly. Let me make this clear; I think he's an excellent player and is a great prospect to become a test standard player and in contention for challenging for the 1st XV jersey over the next few years, but not right now.

Ideally, yes, we want two ''true'' stand-offs, sure, I agree with that, but are you implying that our back up 10 against the physical teams like SA and Samoa should be Preistland? I think not, Sir. South-sea Islanders are notorious for physically pin-pointing lesser experienced caps, they would target him as a natural means to weakness all day if they could. If by then, supposing he makes the squad, he'll have what?...3 maybe 4 caps to his name? Only on the basis on injury to key backline members would I even consider putting his name on the squad list, and then it would be exclusively as utility back.

i am not a scarlets supporter i am an o's supporter however priestland is a good player, and deserves to be in the squad.

fair point about the fijians and samoans in those cases it will be either hook/SJ starting other on the bench, or possibly hook centre and moving to 10. but for nambia priestland should be on the bench at least, and needs gametime against argentina and england... (also we need a spare fly half in case hook or Sj get injured)

I would just like to see someone who can make a break at ten and start a move off the cuff playing. Steven Jones cant and doesnt do that.

My ideal would be Priestland or Hook, but I do also value Steven Jones pragmatism, I just think it castrates the backline a bit when he becomes insular.

welshy824 wrote:i am not a scarlets supporter i am an o's supporter however priestland is a good player, and deserves to be in the squad.

fair point about the fijians and samoans in those cases it will be either hook/SJ starting other on the bench, or possibly hook centre and moving to 10. but for nambia priestland should be on the bench at least, and needs gametime against argentina and england... (also we need a spare fly half in case hook or Sj get injured)

I didn't say you were a Scarlets supporter, I said Scarlets fans might see it that way.

I feel his inclusion against the Baa Baa's was one of an opportunity to embed him within the squad ethic and to familarise himself with the test environment further to give him a chance. If anything, he will have been prepped on the premise that serving as a squad replacement utility back will be far more of a suitable role for him than such a pivotal and critical position as 10.

Of course we need back-up at 10 if either picks up an injury, but then, we would have little or no choice but to gamble everything on him, so my discussion would be rendered null and void.

Is it flyhalfs or flyhalves?

I picked Stephen Jones, James Hook and Rhys Priestland. Wellies for his dependability and defence and that I think he's the best FH we've got. Hook and Priesto because they can cover more than just 10, and that they offer a different option to Stevo. All 3 good choices I think.

Looks like the general consensus is to go with Steven Jones, James Hook and Rhys Priestland as per Six Nations.

Maes, apologies but for just this moment I am going to be a bit of a pedant. Tis Stephen, not Steven Jones.

And yep most seem to be going with those three, makes sense when Hook and Priestland can cover more than one position.

Its going to get tougher on us when Stephan Jones makes the big step up as a fullback/flyhalf at the NG Dragons next year.

Apologies to all fellow pedants...!

ah man, I'm going to have to apologise to you again in advance, but that guy at the Dragons is Steffan Jones, I believe. they need some sort of bashful/apologetic emoticon on here!

To me though he seems more a fullback then fly half and with Tovey there, I can't see him getting much time in the 10 shirt to develop really.

Jones and Hook are definites for the squad. Wales backline have struggled with their attack and seem to shift the ball from wing to wing. If you are going for an attacking option you may need to go with Hook,he is a better runner than Jones. Against Fiji,Jones is the man and possibly against Samoa too.

Good points Thomond.

I feel Jones will always have a steadying influence, but it could well be one from the bench.

Looks like we have our men here. StePHen jones, James Hook and Rhys Priestland.

I've gone for hook. Purely because he i's capable of the unexpected and plays what's in front of him.
If we go with Stephen jones, we are doomed to failure and are merely settling for mediocrity. Stephens last hurrah came on the 2009 lions tour and that should have been that for him. Wales are the only top nation that would pick a player who i's pushing 34 for f's sake.
All you hear i's "stephen jones, great in defines". He's a fly half. I want his defines to be decent, but when people put his good defense down as an argument we are clutching at straws.
With jones at 10, you know what to expect and so too will the opposition!
I'm not saying he has been a bad player for Wales. Not at all. I'm just saying that our inept coach should have brought through a priestland or Tovey by now.
I wouldn't knock jones for reaching 100 caps, but I wouldn't say he's had too much competition getting there.

Sorry defines should be defence. Frickin phone!

manofgwent wrote:I've gone for hook. Purely because he i's capable of the unexpected and plays what's in front of him.
If we go with Stephen jones, we are doomed to failure and are merely settling for mediocrity. Stephens last hurrah came on the 2009 lions tour and that should have been that for him. Wales are the only top nation that would pick a player who i's pushing 34 for f's sake.
All you hear i's "stephen jones, great in defines". He's a fly half. I want his defines to be decent, but when people put his good defense down as an argument we are clutching at straws.
With jones at 10, you know what to expect and so too will the opposition!
I'm not saying he has been a bad player for Wales. Not at all. I'm just saying that our inept coach should have brought through a priestland or Tovey by now.
I wouldn't knock jones for reaching 100 caps, but I wouldn't say he's had too much competition getting there.

well said...!

manofgwent wrote:I've gone for hook. Purely because he i's capable of the unexpected and plays what's in front of him.
If we go with Stephen jones, we are doomed to failure and are merely settling for mediocrity. Stephens last hurrah came on the 2009 lions tour and that should have been that for him. Wales are the only top nation that would pick a player who i's pushing 34 for f's sake.
All you hear i's "stephen jones, great in defines". He's a fly half. I want his defines to be decent, but when people put his good defense down as an argument we are clutching at straws.
With jones at 10, you know what to expect and so too will the opposition!
I'm not saying he has been a bad player for Wales. Not at all. I'm just saying that our inept coach should have brought through a priestland or Tovey by now.
I wouldn't knock jones for reaching 100 caps, but I wouldn't say he's had too much competition getting there.

As an outsider
Anyone who say Jones is predictable and Hook is unexpected, just has a short term or selective memory, or only watches certain parts of his Welsh play.
Jones down PyS (and Priestland) have excellent in orchestrating attacking play, whilst Hook at regional level has been found out many times and eventually had to be replaced by a very young Biggar.
Hook apart from 35 mins against us has not made any attacking moves of note

With Gatlands tactics then Jones will be predictable ................as is Hook "Remember Mr Gatland criticising Hooks predictability this season

Jones in my view if allowed to play to his strengths creates so much more than Hook, who if he hasnt space to operate then goes back to his natural state "headless chicken running and been turned over"

If you operate on a rotation then you will not get out of the group stages ................. it will be simple just close Hooks space

Priestland has to be given time at the higher level as his only problem is his self belief, he is a much better attacking option than any other current Welsh 10

Agree that priestland needs time, but it's a little late now.
If you watch the welsh regions you will
Know that biggar has been dragged off for the spreys and hook's been moved to 10 where he has brought the ospreys either back into the game or the spreys have gone on and won.
One exa
Ole of hook playing off the cuff was Wales 1st try in Scotland a simple break that jones just couldn't make.
It's easy to say that jones plays expansively for the scarlets. The scarlets do have a more cavalier approach and I agree that gatland's tactics don't suit jones, but scoring plenty of tries in the Celtic league and being allowed to do the same at the highest level are two different things.

Quick fact. In their most recent starts in the 10 jersey.
S, jones played 19, 4 wins.
Hook. Played 4, 3 wins.

You can make stats show what you want, but you can't argue with that.

Man Of Gwent

I was at the match when you played us, few points here

1. Hook really did have a wonderful 30 mins, he was very very good.

2. The try made by Hook!! lets be honest about what he did....... he went past a prop and an 8, now if you dont think Jones could have done that well it beggars belief.

3. We (Scotland) are notoriously slow in getting of the blocks, and after 30 mins we actually decided to get into the game.

4. Hook (after a wonderful 30 mins) then had an average 10 mins, which continued off in the 2nd half, he was soon hauled off.

5. Scotland were in the ascendancy by now, Jones came on and made a massive tackle and pushed us back 15m, it raised the welsh crowd and the team, and changed the game.

Thats how I saw that match

With all due respect FHF, I'm with man of Gwent on this one.

30 good minutes from hook i's more than I've seen jones have for Wales in a long time. Can you remember the last time jones went through any gap? Prop or not. The guy moves like an arthritic poodle!!
Yet again Stephen jones wins a game for Wales with his defence. I'm not interested in his defence. I want to see a 10 do what a 10 should do.
I've said before on here that Wales missed a big chance to take a look at priestland against the barbarians. What was the point. We know what he does. Did you see him run out with the mascot. Man, he was struggling to keep up with a 10 year old!!

manofgwent

"Can you remember the last time Jones went through any gap"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owPyOwN5cnE&NR=1
Lets be honest has Hook ever been this aware

Totally agree with you about Priestland amazing that he hasnt had more time on the ball . But if you look at the Scarlets play then Jones does the job of creating opportunities consistently. So why doesnt he do that for Wales!!!, its not rocket science.

Secondly the modern game see the attacking options usually coming through the midfield, if you look at Carter for example he rarely makes the attacking break ...........that normally comes through the blinside with Carter looping, or Carter just making a simple pass to the centre partnership.

Sorry certain Welsh factions seem to have this obsession that Jones crabs, is slow, doesnt make the gain line........ utter tosh he always makes the gain line, rarely loses the ball in contact, he's never going to be as graceful as Henson running but then again he certainly makes as much overall yardage as Hook

You need three things , Gatland to change tactics for the flyhalf role, fast scrum half distribution, and aware centres

Some good points and I can't argue with the clip. You're right. The tactics do have a lot to do with things. I cant change my mind on jones though.
Also we need a ball carrying 8! Faletau's another one who hadn't had the game time. Man. We don't even know our centre pairing. Scrum half looks like a nightmare. We have no in form 15 and our best wings have been injured at the end of the season. It's funny that wakes in the last 20 years have had problems in the pack with some good backs and now our pack looks fairly settled but our backline i's up in the air.
Can't fault you for finding that clip. Danny lydiate's debut!

If we are going to be taking Priestland to the World Cup, he needs to play in every remaining warm-up match,and I don't mean coming on with ten minutes left on the clock.

lp,

Good point I think he will go but I doubt he will start against England maybe the Argies.

Whatever happened to Biggar. Really liked him.

I think Biggar talked the talk before he actually walked the walk.

He was either very good or very poor and had now fallen down order a bit, maybe a full season at the Os just doing what he does will see him back in contention.

I think the debate in the Os itself between him and Hook didnt help either.

Stag, there's still time on Dan Biggar's side. He's capable of being a very good outside half, and contrary to popular opinion, he is capable of making breaks! The problem he'll face at regional level is that, although Hook's out of the picture, there's Matthew Morgan coming through.

Not sure whether biggar's just not good enough or the ospreys tactics are making him so poor. He was the player that garland had a few looks at over the last 2 years, but he now seems to have fallen into 5 choice.

I thought Biggar was the next BIG thing??????

Bath. Dan biggars thinks he's the next big thing. Before him it was Gareth Owen. Now it i's Matthew Morgan. Time will tell.

I want Biggar to focus firmly on his regional rugby with us. With signing Kahn the experience he gained playing with Carter could prove invaluable to help mentor Dan, even though Kahn's not strictly a true stand-off himself....and that applies to Webb too.

Back on topic....
I consider him one for the furture. A very likely 2015 and 2019 contender.

manofgwent wrote:Bath. Dan biggars thinks he's the next big thing. Before him it was Gareth Owen. Now it i's Matthew Morgan. Time will tell.

Are we now so abject in our summary of these players, that because they recieve attention for whatever reason - namely through poor journalism, they are somehow believing in their own hype? How old are you, FFS!

Barry FFS? Calm down. Poor journalism i's always blamed for the hype of these players. Are there not people on these boards building up Matthew Morgan??? Yes there are. Dan biggar doesn't need journalists. He comes out and talks his own game up. 2 seasons ago he was very disparaging towards Jason Tovey before the dragons game. What happened? Tovey had a stormer, biggar had a mate and his comments turned 6000 dragons fans to show their feelings towards him. Biggar should concentrate on his own game.
Barry. You might not be building up these players yourself., but others are. You can't always blame the western fail.

James Hook he has never played Badly there for Wales and Stephen Jones seems to have turned into a crash ball merchant!
We might as well put him at inside centre if he wants to do that!

the thing about biggar is he became over confident and didnt put in the performances to back the confidence, the thing we have to remember is he is 21/22 i think so he has plenty of time to mature.

i agree Priestland needs more game time, doubt he will get it at world cup, post world cup, 2012 six nations maybe?

and MOG stephen jones is very consistant not overly flashy but always gets the job done, and it it the tactics i mean for the scarlets he orchestrates the backs well. AND i know you want someone with flare but would rather have SJ or say Cipriani (has moments of very good plays) but then doesnt tackle.


overall post world cup looks good in terms of fly halves with hook, priestland, tovey (biggar if he starts running rather than kicking) and matthew morgan

I don't think he became over confident I just think he lost form and has been panned by the Welsh public for it.
He was built up like all young Welsh fly half's then when they don't play like Barry john at his peak their slagged off.
Frankly I think in this instance Gatland should of handled him better, we well as Prydie and Phillips because he's built these kids up and smashed them down again and it was so uneccesary.

welshy824 wrote:the thing about biggar is he became over confident and didnt put in the performances to back the confidence, the thing we have to remember is he is 21/22 i think so he has plenty of time to mature.

i agree Priestland needs more game time, doubt he will get it at world cup, post world cup, 2012 six nations maybe?

and MOG stephen jones is very consistant not overly flashy but always gets the job done, and it it the tactics i mean for the scarlets he orchestrates the backs well. AND i know you want someone with flare but would rather have SJ or say Cipriani (has moments of very good plays) but then doesnt tackle.


overall post world cup looks good in terms of fly halves with hook, priestland, tovey (biggar if he starts running rather than kicking) and matthew morgan

Biggar looks like Rhys Priestland did two seasons ago. Promising first season, appalling second season, better third season, finally getting it and making it count fourth season... Biggar is a young bloke, he'll get it soon.

maestegmafia wrote:Biggar looks like Rhys Priestland did two seasons ago. Promising first season, appalling second season, better third season, finally getting it and making it count fourth season... Biggar is a young bloke, he'll get it soon.

Yes I think so too. He'd better come good soon or he will be replaced by Matthew Morgan!

I'm beginning to wonder if we will see Biggar at 12 next season with Morgan at 10.