Leicester Tigers sign Australian flanker Julian Salvi

From here, Leicester Tigers have signed ACT Brumbies and Australia A flanker Julian Salvi after being an injury dispensation to replace Craig Newby. Salvi has played 50 Super rugby games for the Brumbies in 2 stints, and also spent a season with Bath.

Been rumoured for a while as a signing for next season.

Supposed to be a good player when he was at Bath... but I think he was a bit of a penalty machine which is worrying. Still, the important thing is there is some more cover for the back row.

very good link man and operator on the floor, as you say he loved penalties and got a fair few yellow cards, but the he plays on the edge.

I'd imagine Leicester will help him to curb his enthusiasm for penalties though.

Yappysnap from your description it sounds like he'll fit right in at Leicester.

To be fair, he only gave away penalties in the first 5 or 6 games, it seemed that it took time for him to adjust to NH refs. We threw him into the deep end and at the last minute, as Lipman had only just been sacked.

He was our player of the season all in all, a true OS, absolute grafter, top ball winner and loves the breakdown. Also got a good bit of pace. Wouldn't be surprised to see him take Newby's place permanently, although i understand the deal is only short term injury cover.

beshocked wrote:Yappysnap from your description it sounds like he'll fit right in at Leicester.

I imagine he will do! I can see him being very good for them.

On the topic of flankers, will Saul be getting lots of game time over the WC? It'll be good to see him playing regularly as i feel England really need more options for actual 7's rather 6.6's.

Interesting to hear - should be a good signing then.

I wouldn't rule him out as a long term signing - Mafi was brought in as injury cover last season and has stayed. Just depends on the salary cap.

I think this a very good signing, theres certainly a lot of worse players to have as injury cover! Salvi was very popular with the fans, after a few teething problems he was a quality player for Bath, I am a bit let down he has gone to the Tiggers actually...

Very likely yappysnap but he won't ever get picked for England.

People say he is not experienced, he doesn't start etc but I can name two players from Leicester who are in the England squad who can't get into their first team XV.

When overrated backrow players like Fourie and Waldrom are picked instead you know that Saull has no chance. He hasn't got the right contacts unfortunately.

Unfortunately that seems the case at the moment, hopefully after the WC Johnson will relax a bit and try out some newer talents. I hope he'll disregard Fourie and Waldrom by then as well. Any one remember the random pick of Erinle? Maybe these two will go the same way...

As to Saull, well he is stuck behind a quality international in Burger and it can't exactly hurt his education to have that bloke to learn from. It reminds me of the situation Guest is in at Quins behind Easter or indeed Cole at Tigers.

To show I am not just a Tiger basher I would have picked either Crane,Narraway or Dowson instead of Waldrom. Anthony Allen and Brad Barritt instead of Shontayne Hape and Riki Flutey.

Yappysnap the competition in the backrow is quite fierce both at Saracens and international level.

Guest and Saull will have their chances to prove themselves now during the world cup.

Does anyone know if a Newby replacement affects the wage cap?

Is it a temporary signing?

Portnoy wrote:Does anyone know if a Newby replacement affects the wage cap?

Is it a temporary signing?

Portnoy, the article I linked to says Tigers have been given a dispensation due to Newby's injury. So presumeably it's a short term deal.

Bath have finally confirmed the official signing of Francois Louw for 3 years! Now thats one hell of a back row signing!

6. Louw/Skriving
7. Moody/Louw/Mercer
8. Taylor/Fearns

Yes please!

Portnoy wrote: Does anyone know if a Newby replacement affects the wage cap?

No it doesn't, there is a clause to allow teams to sign cover for long term injuries.

Portnoy wrote:Is it a temporary signing?

That's my understanding, he is to cover Newby's injury so would be at the club till around the time he recovers.
Of course it might be they can afford to pay his contract till the end of the season under the cap so would keep him on until then if he does well and isn't already contracted to play elsewhere.

The long term injury clause is a bit of an odd one, because the temporary contract can be for longer than the injury ....as was the case with Tuquiri who they were able to keep playing well after murphy was glued back together. It was only the following season they were unable to retain him under the cap.
But the following season we have the new Jeff cap rules anyway ...so if he works out and if Johnson promises not to poach him for England yes he could go on to be a long term signing.

On a side not theough...what ever happen to Ben Piennar? Is he on loan again for this coming season or have they finaly given up on him altogether?

What's wrong with Ben Woods? Is he injured?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:On a side not theough...what ever happen to Ben Piennar? Is he on loan again for this coming season or have they finaly given up on him altogether?

Last I heard was around New Year, I think it was, when he was ruled out for at least the rest of the season with a bad achilles injury. He's 24/ 25 now I think though, so he must need to break through now or be given up on.

funnyExiledScot wrote:What's wrong with Ben Woods? Is he injured?

As far as I know he's fit now but he has been really injury prone so I'd imagine there are worries if he can stay fit through a whole season.

To be honest I never saw what all the fuss was about, average player, might do alright at the Tiggers as they have plenty of average players on their books.

BATH_BTGOG wrote:To be honest I never saw what all the fuss was about, average player, might do alright at the Tiggers as they have plenty of average players on their books.

True, its a wonder how they keep finsihing above Bath really isnt it :P

Joking aside its a typical Tigers signing, and shows the difference in philosphy. As a rule they dont sign established star players, but look for those with potential and under utilised S15 guys with a professional attitude, rather than the likes of Butch James. Waldrom and Hamilton were both pretty much unkowqns up here when they came over, they are now known as top Jeff players.
Bath on the other hand have tended toward the big names established "superstars" like Butch James and Classens.

Of course in this case Tigers didnt have much choice, you can only sign players judged to have a similar or lesser level of experience under the injury dispensation laws. They couldnt have signed an international even if they had wanted to.


With Woods he was injured for a long time, and hasnt really shown any form since. He would be the only senior 7 going into the new season, with the world cup thats just not acceptable for a club looking to win trophies.

Judas....

I would say that Bath are pretty similar to be honest mate, only established overseas we have bought in recent times has been butch and that was a 'marquee' or one off. How many of the following names were 'known' or 'superstars'? Would say they are exactly the same level as the likes of Waldrom and Newby to be fair, so that throws out your point mate. Leicester are very good at making ok players into great players, but as far as picking up good foreigns, in recent years i reckon bath are up there (with the likes of SAffacens)

Recently:

Carraro
Salvi
Maddock
Claassens
Watson

Off the top of my head, all 'average' s15 players, that proved to be great signings in the prem, after some slow starts.

Not that impressed with the signing of Savli though I with hold my right to change my mind should he improve after a Tigers pre season (Allen style).

Armes, Woods and Hamish Watson are all on the books and with Woods injury proneness the other two may be a tad young but it's only for the RWC period and then Crofty can cover. de Carpienter could also cover even if we would lose some ball stealing ability.

Bathite Watson and Classens were both internationals weren't they? Think Maddock might have been as well.

Bathite wrote:I would say that Bath are pretty similar to be honest mate, only established overseas we have bought in recent times has been butch and that was a 'marquee' or one off. How many of the following names were 'known' or 'superstars'? Would say they are exactly the same level as the likes of Waldrom and Newby to be fair, so that throws out your point mate. Leicester are very good at making ok players into great players, but as far as picking up good foreigns, in recent years i reckon bath are up there (with the likes of SAffacens)

Recently:

Carraro
Salvi
Maddock
Claassens
Watson

Off the top of my head, all 'average' s15 players, that proved to be great signings in the prem, after some slow starts.

Hadn't Claassens and Watson got about 10 caps each?

And signed Louw and Donald for after the WC, who are both internationals. Though I think Donald is mostly famous for losing matches for the All Blacks...

Claassens and Watson had a few caps, but hadn't played internationals for a while and wouldn't in the future, similar to someone like Mujati I guess. Along with Louw and Donald, none of them were starters, none of which were guarentees for 30 man squads in fact, except butch.

Maddock was uncapped, remember that people tried to get him to play for england, after three years of being top 3 try scorers in prem?

Maddock = Judas

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Maddock = Judas

Think thats a little harsh, especially considering how awful our club was too him when he left!

Bathite wrote:Claassens and Watson had a few caps, but hadn't played internationals for a while and wouldn't in the future, similar to someone like Mujati I guess. Along with Louw and Donald, none of them were starters, none of which were guarentees for 30 man squads in fact, except butch.

I'd say all of those people were much more known than Waldrom, Hamilton and Newby. I'm going on the fact I knew who they all were before they signed for Bath, unlike the Tigers signings who I only knew Newby because he had a spell at Newcastle.
Your four have about 50 caps between them, compared to the Tigers three who have 5 caps between them... and this is all of course ignoring Butch James.

You had heard of carraro but not waldrom and hamilton, you got to watch more s15 mate!

Bathite wrote:You had heard of carraro but not waldrom and hamilton, you got to watch more s15 mate!

I was talking about Claassens, Watson, Louw and Donald - who were pretty well known, regardless of people watching Super 15, before they signed for Bath.

Hey guys can we bring Hape into this debate ?

It appears Ive kicked a hornest nest.

Hape - not sad to see him go at all

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Hey guys can we bring Hape into this debate ?

It appears Ive kicked a hornest nest.

The only thing that ever needs to be said about Hape is "Why?"

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Bok-picks-Bath-Tigers/story-12941824-detail/story.html

So after all the chat yesterday, two very interesting things have come to light:

1. Leicester tried to sign Louw first. This is the club that doens't buy established stars!

2. Salvi wanted to come to Bath first, but there wasn't space in the cap!

Taken from a local rag, so take with a pinch of salt, but both points make sense and it adds an interesting slant to some of the points that people were making yesterday!

It does seem Tigers are mightily concerned by the surgery that Newby has had to under go and were desperate to bring in somebody to replace him. It doesn't suprise me Bath was the first choice for both Louw and Salvi. Tigers were only looking to sign an injury replacement so the contract would be at most a year long and be restricted to what Newby is earning, which whislt a decent amount isn't going to be top dollar. However, we've seen in recent times that Bath are happy to keep a relatively small squad but at the same time spend big to fill it. Look at the contracts offered to both Moody and Attwood. Attwood's wage is rumoured to have at least been doubled and Moody was offered top money on a long term deal.

Tigers like to maintain a big squad and are well known for relying on their reputation and facilities for swaying players and convincing them that accepting slightly less in wages is worth it for playing for Tigers. Doesn't always work but it's how Tigers operate.

I'd like to think that mate, but if think both Tigers and Bath and Saracens aren't getting round the cap, then you're dreaming!

TH's are the most expensive players in the game and Tigers have two world class units. Isn't the rumour that a businessman, of course in no way linked to the club bought Castro's restaurant for him?

Moody was a big wedge, but we needed the quality at back row and it signalled some intent, get an experienced international at the club and england captain at the time to the club, can only help draw other players from the prem and around the world. They think, well if its good enough for Moody...

Attwood was also big money, but less then Danny Grewcock and there aren't many young brutish locks kicking around. We needed to add a nasty side to the pack and with DG retiring, we paid over the odds, but its supply vs. demand isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, Tigers have the winning culture and mentality and pedigree and top class facilities, thats goes a long way to helping players sign (and for less money i would imagine). Think about it from a players point of view, sign for the Tigers on £100k and guarenteed medals, HC each year, finals of tournaments, alongside greats, 20k spectators each week, on england selectors radar or £140k to play at the crabby rec, the odd HC QF, the odd star like Butch. Now if it was me, i'd take the tigers every time. (can't believe i said that!)

Tigers have it all in place and don't struggle to attract top players, Bath have the pedigree, but its amateur stuff and to be honest, if your a young player, do you care how your new club played in the 80s?

Bath now have a chance to make the club into a place where people want to play and sign for and by getting in big names, that adds a pulling power. With the new training facilities (probably the best in the NH) and hopefully a new stadium not far away, then we are going in the right direction.

If you think about it, all of our big signings are direct replacements for the highest earners who have left

Perenise - Barnes
Attwood - Grewcock
Louw - Watson
Donald - Butch
Hipkiss - Hape

Bathite Tigers lost two big earners during this season due to retirement and have seen Hipkiss leave at the end of it with a few squad players to boot. Last summer Moody went with Kay and Mauger retiring. Those are some of the biggest earners we've had in recent years. Who did we sign as replacements;

Hipkiss - Tait (on much reduced pay if you believe the rumours)
Moody - Mafi and Waldrom
Blaze - Kitchener and Slater
Kay - Skivington
Ellis - Young

Just as a general idea to the sort of changes we've been making. As the big names go we've been bringing in little known players to make the overall squad stronger but not really altering the first team in that big a way. When Mauger left we brought in a down on his luck Allen and Twelvetrees. Tigers try and catch players on a downward career cruve and try to rejuvinate them because it's cheaper and buys loyalty. That's the secret to the wage budgeting, that and occasionally letting an older big name go in order to renew the contracts of the next generation.

Incidentally Tigers are struggling to renegociate Cole's contract as he only has one year to run and is currently on a squad player salary having signed a three year deal before being capped.

BTW some of Bath's big spending has been very good though (Attwood and Moody) I think they may well have paid over the odds previously with the likes of James and Taylor mind.

Tigers try and catch players on a downward career cruve and try to rejuvinate them because it's cheaper and buys loyalty. That's the secret to the wage budgeting, that and occasionally letting an older big name go in order to renew the contracts of the next generation.

-----

Agreed and I like it, but as I said, they can only do that because of the systems and cultures in place. But that's what makes them one of the best clubs in Europe.

Taylor not on a big wage mate and was one of players of the season. Butch, yeah was on £200k, but not the highest in the league, not by a long shot and he was a WC winner at the time! A large part of the success and style we have rejuveneated after 4/5 very average years are down to that signing (especially with partnered with Claassens). Just look at Bath's finishing prem positions.

04-9th
05-10th
06-8th
07-3rd (Year that Butch and Meehan joined, coincidence?)
08-4th
09-4th
10-5th

A lot of proper bath supporters and by that, i mean older guys have Butch in an all time bath XV, ahead of Barnesy, now thats a statement!

Bathite - I'm a massive fan of Steve Meehan as a coach, I think he worked wonders at Bath and I'm not 100% convinced that letting him go was the right move. He's a superb backs coach. I don't know where he's heading next, but I think if Martin Johnson has any sense at all, he'll try and convince him to lead the coaching team with England after the World Cup.

I wanted him to become the Edinburgh head coach, but clearly when there's someone of the calibre of Michael Bradley to be hired, you just have to ignore all other possibilities

Glad to hear he is respected outside of bath. He left because he didn't get on with the other coaches and because Geech was brought in above him.

I was really surprised that he didn't get the england attack job a few years back, when we played sublime stuff. Everyone in bath was really nervous about losing a third coach to england, but they went for Smith instead.

The rumour was that he was heading back to Stade, but not sure about that. Meehan is a lovely fella as well, really down to earth, used to drink every now and then on a sunday in the pub i worked in in town. Quiet and unassuming and if i said, well played today, he would quite often have a good chat about what went well, badly and how it looked on tv, fascinating stuff i thought!

When do the current contracts of the top Leicester players run out?

Cole and Youngs for example have catapulted into the England side. They will want to renegotiate. I can see the French sides coming knocking.

Croft,Flood,Deacon and Castro must be on large wages anyway.

The French sharks will be circling when contracts run out.

Bathite wrote:Glad to hear he is respected outside of bath. He left because he didn't get on with the other coaches and because Geech was brought in above him.

I was really surprised that he didn't get the england attack job a few years back, when we played sublime stuff. Everyone in bath was really nervous about losing a third coach to england, but they went for Smith instead.

The rumour was that he was heading back to Stade, but not sure about that. Meehan is a lovely fella as well, really down to earth, used to drink every now and then on a sunday in the pub i worked in in town. Quiet and unassuming and if i said, well played today, he would quite often have a good chat about what went well, badly and how it looked on tv, fascinating stuff i thought!

Obviously being a Scot I'm a massive fan of Geech, but I'm not 100% sure you've got a better deal at the end of all this. Time will tell I guess, but McGeechan hasn't always got it right with his clubs, and certainly not always as Scotland coach (in fact in 2000 he took Telfer's 1999 5 Nations side and made a real mess). Sacrilege to criticise McGeechan of course, but I'd actually have stuck with Meehan, particularly if it's true that Howley will be in charge of your backs.

I heard about the Stade rumour, but I assume with all the goings on there that this is a non-starter now. Personally I think he's one of the top backs coaches in the business, and he could do very well to wait for the WC fallout. He'd be a great hire for any international side. Imagine if Wales don't make the QFs. Gatland would immediately resign as promised I'm sure. Who would be a better coach for Wales, and coach the sort of rugby that they crave? The answer is not Dai Young or Scott Johnson.

beshocked wrote:When do the current contracts of the top Leicester players run out?

Cole and Youngs for example have catapulted into the England side. They will want to renegotiate. I can see the French sides coming knocking.

Croft,Flood,Deacon and Castro must be on large wages anyway.

The French sharks will be circling when contracts run out.

I think it is looking pretty definite that Deacon will be retiring post WC - while he was injured at the start of the season there was a lot of speculation he wouldn't make it back and since he has the belief is that he's just holding on to make the World Cup then will retire.
Castro is very likely to be the clubs "marque" signing so he'll be outside the salary cap from next season.

With those two changes, it should give Tigers a reaonable amount of money to re-sign the other key players. Though Manu is likely to be on a lot more next time his contract is renewed....
I only know Cole's is up at the end of next season, I think the others you mentioned have at least another year after that to run. Ayerza is up at the end of next season as well though.

Don't think the marquee signing thing comes in until 2012/13 hence why Tigers are sweating on the deals for Ayerza and Castro. Especially since the SH teams are eyeing up some of the Argentinians who will be playing in the expanded tri-nations tournament post RWC. Previously Tigers players have turned down bigger contracts to stay at the club, Croft turned down Bath last year and Castro turned down Stade shortly after. Marcos Ayerza doing something similar as he etended his contract for just the one year.

Still concerning times for the board.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Don't think the marquee signing thing comes in until 2012/13 hence why Tigers are sweating on the deals for Ayerza and Castro. Especially since the SH teams are eyeing up some of the Argentinians who will be playing in the expanded tri-nations tournament post RWC. Previously Tigers players have turned down bigger contracts to stay at the club, Croft turned down Bath last year and Castro turned down Stade shortly after. Marcos Ayerza doing something similar as he etended his contract for just the one year.

Still concerning times for the board.

Yes - the marquee signing is from 2012/13, I'd assume the club would look to sign a deal with Cole to start from then. I'd hope that if Cole wants to stay at the club, which seems likely, he is going to understand why his new contract has to be from the start of the 2012/13 season when Castro's wages are off the books. I don't expect Ayerza to go to the SH, despite the rumours, as it would be a big drop in wages - the problem is going to be offers from France I expect. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the extra room we get under the cap from moving Castro out of it is enough to pay Cole and Ayerza enough.

Yeah but we are running pretty close to the top of the cap and if Cole demands the same terms as Castro then we might not have enough to meet Ayerza's wants as well. There would be less cash on offer down in the Southern Hemisphere but at the same time the cost of living is cheaper so it would all level out.

I know Castro is a big favourite at Leicester, but if you had to keep two from Ayerza, Cole and Castro, wouldn't you let Castro go?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Yeah but we are running pretty close to the top of the cap and if Cole demands the same terms as Castro then we might not have enough to meet Ayerza's wants as well. There would be less cash on offer down in the Southern Hemisphere but at the same time the cost of living is cheaper so it would all level out.

True, I'm just hoping that saving on the whole of Castro's salary gives enough to top Ayerza and Cole's up to the amount they want.
The cost of living might be cheaper in the SH but it isn't that much cheaper - you have to remember that is why all the SH players come north to make money.

There is a degree of hoping in there though!

funnyExiledScot, that's a tough choice. Castro when on form is the best prop in the world. He has suprising speed (just ask Olly Morgan) and embodies all that is Leicester Tigers. Great individual skill but at the same time his focus is all about the team and off the field is the nicest bloke you will meet and absolutely loves the fans. I think he is similar to Geordan, not from Leicestershire but certainly a Leicester Tiger. He said unofficially after the final (which we lost) he was glad he'd decided to stay and wants to retire here.

At the same time Marcos is hard to replace and Cole looks to be the next Castro so it's a damn hard decision to make.

Snoopster the move to the SH would be about international aspirations and not money though. A move down there would be to try and further his case for selection in the expanded tri-nations.