Should a sexist institution like St Georges host the Open ?

First topic message reminder :

Bearing in mind that the Open is the pinnacle event in the British golfing calendar, should it be awarded to a club that will not permit half the British population as a member ? OK, it probably wont even consider 99.9% of the population but if you are a woman it's not even up for debate. I believe someone high up at the R&A was recently asked this question and his answer was it wasn't up to the R&A to influence social engineering. What a wonderfully enlightened man he must have been.....
So for me I can accept that they have a right to be a male only institution, however I'd equally have to say that such an institution should not be considered fitting to host the Open.
I thought Id post this thread after freading an article by Matthew Syed in this mornings Times by the way...not a Guardian in sight....

leinsterbaby wrote:

Doon the Water wrote:leinster

I think it is you who is the bitter one.
The Open will not be going to NI anytime soon, as any sensible person knows.
It will definately not be going to ROI as that is an independent country with it's own Open Champoinship.
I can understand your pride in the golfers who play for ROI and NI but please try to stop making political points in an area where they are unwelcome.

At no point did I say it should be played in ROI though if it was I think Portnarnock would be a great choice. If they don't have an Open in NI it will be a missed opportunity really given the talent on show there at the moment.

Very true, there are some cracking chippies over there and they deserve showcasing.

Have barely begun to read all the posts but already I'm getting the distinct impression that in 'blokeland', ignorance is definitely bliss.

I will just say this, tis the European Union to blame for 'cocking' up the legislation on this issue. It made the fundamental error in lumping all types of clubs together.

There is a world of difference between course-owning and non course-owning clubs. Most female only clubs are of the non course-owning variety. Indeed, you'd be hard pushed to find even a handful that were course-owned/run by females.

Where were you when we needed you Gael. Did you go to watch all of the Open?

Sure did Diggers. Have never been to Kent before let alone RSG. It really is a wonderful piece of golfing territory down there. There is so much space that I think if RSG applied itself, it could almost squeeze in another 18 holes.

As I've said elsewhere, I was really surprised at how well the police kept things moving because Sandwich has, apart from anything else very narrow streets. I think too, the high speed train was a big success and negated much of the traffic stress. There was another factor which I think helped to promote better traffic-flow and this was an area being made available near the course for tents and caravans to be pitched.

Anyway, it really is becoming very tiresome for the media to annually 'round' on the R&A over the issue of taking its flagship event to male only clubs. Although I didn't like the phrase 'social engineering' to justify the R&A's stance on this issue and, aside from the fact that Peter Dawson is also a pompous a-hole, he was, nonetheless, essentially correct. The simple truth is that it was the European Union who miserably failed women golfers with its 'one size fits all' policy to remove descriminatory practices - yet another reason to leave it! Having played the game for some 56 years now, I still find it thoroughly demeaning for such clubs to still want to hold on to such arcane attitudes and to be brutally frank, it's difficult not to come to the conclusion sexist attitudes provide, in essence, their raison d'etre for continuing to exist in this fashion. At the end of the day, women have been playing the game just as long as men and surely the game itself is bigger than the club which provides the facility to play it?

Given such 'establishments' are mostly made up of ex-public schoolboys, the solution is really quite simple. Do away with public schools and this problem will disappear within a generation.

gael,
Hope you saw your mate Russell Knox do the business (on a public course, no less) on the Nationwide?
Up to 5th on the moneylist now, looking good for him. Came across very well in interviews, almost a bit sheepish about what he was achieving.

Funny you should say that kwini as I've just read a report on another website. Boy oh boy, has his gamble in taking on the Nationwide Monday qualifier (as opposed to continuing to slug it out on the Hooters tour) paid off bigtime for him. This is his reward ..

"With his win Russell Knox:
• Collects a first-place cheque for $99,000
• Earns Full-Exempt status for the rest of 2011 and all of 2012
• Moves from No. 27 to No. 5 on the Nationwide Tourmoney list
• Collects his first Nationwide Tour win at the age of 26 years, 26 days
• Becomes the third player in his 20s to win on Tour this year -- Ted Potter, Jr. and Russell Henley
• Becomes the 7th 54-hole leader/co-leader to hold on to win this year"

Fan dabi dozi!

gael,
He's shown himself to be a bit streaky. If that is a valid observation, you'd think he'd have another good week 85 miles up the Ohio road this week, in Columbus. Terrific start to his season andbrilliant for someone with no "status" just six months ago.

We'll continue to follow his progress "from the Ballwasher".
(Apparently he tried to get an invite to Castle Stuart but was rebuffed in favour of those warming up for The Open. Bet they take him next year . . . . )

gaelgowfer wrote:... and, aside from the fact that Peter Dawson is also a pompous a-hole

My thoughts exactly!

Have you any thoughts on whether things will improve when - and if - the merger between the EGU and the EWGA goes ahead?

[quote="LadyPutt"]

gaelgowfer wrote:... Have you any thoughts on whether things will improve when - and if - the merger between the EGU and the EWGA goes ahead?

Interesting point, I am not a legal expert but would have thought that the current legislation would make it difficult for single sex clubs to exist within a unified EGU/EWGA.

LadyPutt ... whether the merger goes ahead or not will not make any difference to those clubs intent on living in the 19th century. I'm hearing on the grapevine that the english merger is likely to go the same way as the scottish attempt viz down the proverbial pan!

bluefoxgolf ... excellent point! Doubtless though they would find some way to spin it in order to allow the status quo to continue, should the merger go ahead. Twould be interesting though to see how such clubs would react if a merged organisation applied pressure to such clubs.

kwini ... I think you must be reading the same website as me!

gael,
Just stuff they came up with on the Golf Channel last weekend, have to try and get some fresh info obviously!

Hi Gael

Does EWGA mean that female golfers in England are no longer 'Ladies'?

Doon the Water wrote:Hi Gael

Does EWGA mean that female golfers in England are no longer 'Ladies'?

Depends what you mean by "Ladies" Doon!

Has ELGA changed to EWGA without me knowing?

Doon the Water wrote:Has ELGA changed to EWGA without me knowing?

Why would you need to know Doon?

Anyway, it would appear to be an operational change ...

http://www.englishwomensgolf.org/page.asp?id=325

"About the English Women's Golf Association
On the 31 December 2007 the English Ladies’ Golf Association, an unincorporated body, was dissolved and the property, contracts, assets (including intellectual property rights and goodwill) and liabilities of the Association were transferred to a Company Limited by Guarantee, registration number 6431498, known as the English Women’s Golf Association.
The English Ladies' Golf Association was formed in 1952. Before that golf in England came under the jurisdiction of the Ladies' Golf Union which generally deals with British women’s championships and selection of teams to compete in International events."

Perhaps they needed to do this in order to be able to merge with the EGU?

Well Gael I didn't know that.

In the early 1990's I was sitting round a table with the EGU, ELGA, The Golf Foundation and the English Sports Council discussing junior golf development.

I told them that as far as I was concerned ELGA were the only group that had a set up that was fit for purpose. You should have seen the faces.

Got their attention, and bless them they did start changing things.

Good for you Doon! I think that's fair comment. ELGA always came across as having a bit more 'get up and go' about them.

Do you think think the merger will go ahead or, like the scottish attempt, sink without trace?

gaelgowfer wrote:

Doon the Water wrote:Has ELGA changed to EWGA without me knowing?

Why would you need to know Doon?

Anyway, it would appear to be an operational change ...

http://www.englishwomensgolf.org/page.asp?id=325

"About the English Women's Golf Association
On the 31 December 2007 the English Ladies’ Golf Association, an unincorporated body, was dissolved and the property, contracts, assets (including intellectual property rights and goodwill) and liabilities of the Association were transferred to a Company Limited by Guarantee, registration number 6431498, known as the English Women’s Golf Association.
The English Ladies' Golf Association was formed in 1952. Before that golf in England came under the jurisdiction of the Ladies' Golf Union which generally deals with British women’s championships and selection of teams to compete in International events."

Perhaps they needed to do this in order to be able to merge with the EGU?

Sounds like a tax dodge to me

Gael...... No

I posted this a few months ago so apologies if you have read it.

The four Scottish Bowls associations were to merge into one group.
I was at the initial meeting and all agreed to a statement of intent.

That was 12 years ago

More likely it's down to my memory Doon.

You're probably correct. The rumour I heard was that there is a north/south divide within the EGU.

'Lady' is not politically correct anymore, while 'Women' apparently is.

That's why the change - and also to make the new entity an incorporated body.

Does this mean we now have to refer to Thai ladyboys as womenboys?

Womenboys doesn't have the same ring to it as ladyboy though D4S, so in terms of being PC i'm opting out and going for Ladyboys as correct terminology

As for the original post should it be allowed to host the Open. Yes it should, ok so they don't allow lady members but then do Augusta! It's about being the best test of golf for the Open Championship.