David Haye v Johnny 'The Entertainer' Nelson

Haye. Probably a stoppage.

Much criticism of him - but at crusier he was a feasome puncher.

Haye by a wide, wide, WIDE decision. Far too good for Nelson, who'd probably survive while losing just about every round. He was tentative at the best of times, but against a fearsome 200 lb puncher like Haye, he'd be on the back foot all night but nowhere busy enough off it to get rounds in the bag.

Haye by pretty destructive KO, in my opinion.

Haye stoppage for me,

too powerfull and busy for Nelson at 200lb i think.

I would agree with Chris in principle that Haye would win a wide decision, but would add the caveat that Haye is hardly the busiest of fighters himself. I can envisage something similar to Haye v Harrison, with David wandering around for a bit before trying to get his punches off. Only difference been, Nelson has the ability to stay away from Haye and last the distance whereas Audley was too big and slow to do the same.

I think Nelson could nick a couple of rounds whilst Haye took his inevitable breathers, but Haye would win 9 times out of 10.

88Chris05 wrote:Haye by a wide, wide, WIDE decision. Far too good for Nelson, who'd probably survive while losing just about every round. He was tentative at the best of times, but against a fearsome 200 lb puncher like Haye, he'd be on the back foot all night but nowhere busy enough off it to get rounds in the bag.

Could Haye go for 12 rounds though Chris? He blew himself out in 5 against The Cat, if it goes to the later rounds I'd back Johnny to take him out.

Will go with Haye but by the points route rather than stoppage, until late in his career Nelson always displayed a terrific set of whiskers and couple that with his defensive skills and cautious nature which as Chris has already said would be amplified against Haye and have to feel Nelson sees the final bell.

Would add though that whilst not a nuclear puncher when Johnny did let his hands go he could bang, and Haye has looked vulnerable in the past, obviously this is some way short of tipping Johnny but just wanted to leap to the defence of my fellow Sheffielder and suggest haye cannot just walk in and do as he pleases in this one.

Union Cane wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Haye by a wide, wide, WIDE decision. Far too good for Nelson, who'd probably survive while losing just about every round. He was tentative at the best of times, but against a fearsome 200 lb puncher like Haye, he'd be on the back foot all night but nowhere busy enough off it to get rounds in the bag.

Could Haye go for 12 rounds though Chris? He blew himself out in 5 against The Cat, if it goes to the later rounds I'd back Johnny to take him out.

I think Haye could do the full distance because Nelson just wouldn't make him work hard enough. Thompson, although shipping some fearsome punishment, put the pressure on Haye mentally and physically by walking him down, something I don't see Nelson doing.

Haye blasts Nelson out within 6

The genius of PBF wrote:Haye blasts Nelson out within 6

You missed the word FACT.

I didn't realise that Nelson was World Heavyweight Champion.

You learn something every day...

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:Haye blasts Nelson out within 6

You missed the word FACT.

No that is a prime Mike Tyson he beats everyone FACT

Believe he was WBF or WBU heavyweight champion hard though it is to believe

£10 if you can name the current holder (without looking it up)...

Union Cane wrote:£10 if you can name the current holder (without looking it up)...

Is it me?

Is it Rowley?

Kali Meehan?

Tenner's in the post Scott...

Technical draw after neither throws a punch for 12 rounds.

fearlessBamber wrote:Technical draw after neither throws a punch for 12 rounds.

didn't Holyfield win the WBF belt when he fought Botha?

rowley wrote:Believe he was WBF or WBU heavyweight champion hard though it is to believe

Forget Haye-Klitschko, the most anticipated Heavyweight clash of recent times was Nelson versus TBA for the WBU belt.

He won the WBF title from Jimmy Thunder in 1993.

Jimmy Thunder.

Jimmy Thunder has one of the quickest knockouts I've ever seen. Literally walked over and knocked the other guy out.

Whatever. Despite having a slew of bums on his record I would still say that Nelson has the better Cruiserweight legacy thank Kaye who fought just 2 world title fights, Nelson defended 14 times.

Scottrf wrote:Jimmy Thunder has one of the quickest knockouts I've ever seen. Literally walked over and knocked the other guy out.

That's the feller, I've always rated him to be honest, great fighter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y6kog5RJKY

Nelson does have a comparable record to Haye at Cruiserweight. In fact his record at heavyweight is comparable.

Haye went to the backyard of THE man at Cruiserweight and knocked him out, worth more than eight or nine of Nelson's utterly awful defences. He then unified against a man who Nelson wanted no part of, choosing to retire instead.

The backlash against Haye here is amazing. Not to diminish Nelson's achievements, which were considerable, but Haye clearly outdoes him, be it north or south of 200 lb.

In Nelson's defence Chris he was injured for the Macarinelli fight, personally couldn't see him ducking Enzo because realise I'll get dogs abuse for this but even at the tail end of his career would have backed Johnny to turn Enzo over. Totally agree though that to claim Nelson has a better ledger at 200 than Haye is a bit silly, irrespective of how briefly Haye was in the division. One proved he was the man at the weight one did not come close.

Rowley, Nelson actually beat Carl Thompson though and has a creditable draw against Guillermo Jones who I see as beating Haye at cruiser.

I can't get passed the fact that Haye only won two fights at world level and he's been falsely lauded as a cruiserweight "great" by his now dejected fans.

Super there was nothing creditable about Nelson's draw with Jones. I was at the fight and giving him a draw was an absolute gift for Johnny, to most eyes he lost the fight fairly clearly. Should probably add though that I believe Jones lost a drug test after which offers mitigation but the result on the night was very kind to Johnny.

Super D Boon wrote:Rowley, Nelson actually beat Carl Thompson though and has a creditable draw against Guillermo Jones who I see as beating Haye at cruiser.

I can't get passed the fact that Haye only won two fights at world level and he's been falsely lauded as a cruiserweight "great" by his now dejected fans.

I'd say that owes more to how historically poor the Cruiserweight division has nearly always been, rather than being an indictment of Haye's supporters. The division is over thirty years old, and in those thirty-odd years there have only been three or four men who have actually held more than one belt in it at the same time.

Agree Rowley that Nelson was given a gift, but seeing as I reckon Jones could beat Haye at cruiser as well I'm not sold on the idea that Haye is that much better than Nelson if at all. I'm also not very confident that Haye's best wins at cruiser (ie. Mormeck and Maccarinelli, Fragomeni) would beat Nelson either.

Haye won more belts and proved his worth as the definitive cruiser but it's 2 vs 14 is where the "better legacy" issue is debatable for me. Either way, not going to argue anymore but I don't think Haye beating Nelson or Haye having a better ledger is all that clear cut.

88Chris05 wrote:Haye went to the backyard of THE man at Cruiserweight and knocked him out, worth more than eight or nine of Nelson's utterly awful defences. He then unified against a man who Nelson wanted no part of, choosing to retire instead.

The backlash against Haye here is amazing. Not to diminish Nelson's achievements, which were considerable, but Haye clearly outdoes him, be it north or south of 200 lb.

The man ? Mormeck ? Pfft. What age was he when Haye beat him ? 38 / 39. Anyway he's a blown up light heavy really.

Nelson easily dealt with Thompson. A younger Thomson than the one that destroyed Haye the prosepct. The 'Entertainer' has far more strength in depth than Haye in his Cruiserweight ledger and that awful draw with DeLeon in a performance that would have made Haye proud.

With Haye it's always his 'ability' / 'potential'. Well I don't buy it. Wins over Mormeck and that bloke who trained with Calzaghe don't add up to much. He's a fraud.

Bamber if you're going to sit on the fence all the time there is little point you using the forum.

rowley wrote:Bamber if you're going to sit on the fence all the time there is little point you using the forum.

In my defence I've been consistently sitting on the fence regarding that abrasive young man.

Fact is though, Bamber, Haye proved himself the best in the division. Nelson didn't. Mormeck is no world beater, but to deny that he was anything other than very much the top dog at 200 lb before Haye beat him would be ridiculous. And let's be honest, there were times when Thompson was far more hurt against Haye than he ever was against Nelson, it was an absolutely shocking stoppage, though I'll concede that's beside the point a little.

You don't think Haye should have been stopped?

Scottrf wrote:You don't think Haye should have been stopped?

Maybe I didn't word it all that well, but I meant the Thompson-Nelson stoppage was a shocker, not Haye-Thompson.

sittingringside wrote:didn't Holyfield win the WBF belt when he fought Botha?

Nah mate, he got the WBF from inside a Christmas cracker...FACT

Haye but if Nelson went into survival and counter mode which i suspect he would he could have caused Haye more than a problem, Haye's stamina is shocking imo when throwing punches as well, so would be interesting, but just don't see Nelson winning, Haye was a good cruiser, in a terrible division, but that isn't his fault.

Young_Towzer wrote:Haye but if Nelson went into survival and counter mode which i suspect he would he could have caused Haye more than a problem, Haye's stamina is shocking imo when throwing punches as well, so would be interesting, but just don't see Nelson winning, Haye was a good cruiser, in a terrible division, but that isn't his fault.

I think shocking is slightly harsh, considering he has gone the distance with Wladimir Klitschko sticking a jab in his face at every opportunity.

Fists of Fury wrote:

Young_Towzer wrote:Haye but if Nelson went into survival and counter mode which i suspect he would he could have caused Haye more than a problem, Haye's stamina is shocking imo when throwing punches as well, so would be interesting, but just don't see Nelson winning, Haye was a good cruiser, in a terrible division, but that isn't his fault.

I think shocking is slightly harsh, considering he has gone the distance with Wladimir Klitschko sticking a jab in his face at every opportunity.

Never threw enough punches, walking into a jab frustrates you more than anything else, i've been outboxed before, it's throwing, and missing that burns the stamina imo, taking big shots obviously but not a jab so much

88Chris05 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You don't think Haye should have been stopped?

Maybe I didn't word it all that well, but I meant the Thompson-Nelson stoppage was a shocker, not Haye-Thompson.

I think he should, Nelson absolutely schooled him, he was over aggressively just walking into every shot in the book

Fists of Fury wrote:

Young_Towzer wrote:Haye but if Nelson went into survival and counter mode which i suspect he would he could have caused Haye more than a problem, Haye's stamina is shocking imo when throwing punches as well, so would be interesting, but just don't see Nelson winning, Haye was a good cruiser, in a terrible division, but that isn't his fault.

I think shocking is slightly harsh, considering he has gone the distance with Wladimir Klitschko sticking a jab in his face at every opportunity.

I don't think his stamina is shocking, (Probably better than mine!) But I think he has a mental block on his stamina, after the Thompson fight look at how he rarely goes all out attacking anymore worried he will burn himself out again, just happy to sit and pick his opportunities, sadly not enough against Wlad. Even watch the Ruiz fight, how many times people were saying he was being "Outjabbed" fact is, he wasn't throwing anything and walking into the jab because A.) He didn't fear it to much B.) He didn't want to waste energy and wanted to take a breather every 2 rounds.
Relies on his big "Hayemaker" too much to get himself out of trouble when the walls are caving in and someone begins to open up on him he unleashes it, unlucky for him how often does Wlad ever open up?