Williams-Lara Judges Suspended

and must undergo further training before refereeing again.

"Tonight we were contacted by Luis DeCubas Jr. regarding a letter received by him today as to the contents of that letter sent by Commissioner Aaron Davis of the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board.
Mr. Davis after conducting an investigation into the judging of this bout has SUSPENDED INDEFINATELY , all three judges and mandated that all three judges take undertake additional training prior to returning to professional judging of boxing matches. Mr. Davis in his letter admits; “Any contestant who enters the ring or cage in our state deserves the best officiating we can provide. While we do not mean to diminish Mr. Williams’ competitive spirit and exciting style, we feel that we did not provide the best officiating on July 9th” .
Aaron Davis makes some incredible statements in this letter;
“The NJSACB does not have the legal authority, under these circumstances , to invalidate the official results. This is due to the fact that all scoring is a matter of subjective judgement. In a simialiar fashion, we can not mandate a rematch. However, our opinion is that a rematch may be warranted.”"

http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTICLE/4091/2011-07-13.html

They were inexperienced judges anyway, one of them had never refereed a title fight.

They should be banned for life...shocking decision

The genius of PBF wrote:They should be banned for life...shocking decision

I'd usually think a statement like that was harsh but when you're dealing with judges that incompetent you have a point. In most occupations making an error as substantial as that will lead to repurcussions and this should be no different. While everyone knows Lara won the result still has the potential to derail his career and limit his opportunities to an extent.

Have not seen the fight so obviously cannot comment but based on the reaction does appear this was one of the more shocking examples of judging in recent times. Is nice to see a governing body willing to take pro-active measures to address a problem that blights the sport rather than sitting on their hands.

Any word of the ruling being overturned?

School Project wrote:Any word of the ruling being overturned?

Yes, not going to happen.

Such a shame the decision cannot be overturned. Just shows what a mess the sport of boxing is in really. Need a overall governing body.

Judges need making an example of in cases like this - they should have been suspended for the Malinaggi vs Diaz 1 fights, and Ian John Lewis should have his judging license revoked completely.

Pfft, they're happy to suspend them for clear incompetence, but not overturn a decision based on the poor performance of the judges.

No backbone at all and completely unfair to Lara.

School Project wrote:Pfft, they're happy to suspend them for clear incompetence, but not overturn a decision based on the poor performance of the judges.

No backbone at all and completely unfair to Lara.

Completely agree - the word unfair doesnt even do it justice. Now Lara has to carry a loss on his record which shouldnt have even existed. It's a shame boxing isnt more like UFC where a loss means nothing. Unfortunately in boxing it affects your income, your ability to get bigger and better fights etc.

School Project wrote:Pfft, they're happy to suspend them for clear incompetence, but not overturn a decision based on the poor performance of the judges.

No backbone at all and completely unfair to Lara.

Couldn't agree more, and for any future generations wishing to reassess the boxers of today, results like this are grossly misleading.

Whilst I agree if the result was as bad as it seems Lara has been shafted but lets ease up with all the stuff about how this will affect him moving forward. He is riding a wave of massive public sympathy and is arguably better known now than if he had got the nod. On the back of that and the abuse the governing bodies and Williams is receiving he will get a rematch at worse and if he doesn't will probably be given a decent fight to right the wrong. Shame for him but will do him no harm long term.

This fight has gotten such poor coverage I actually forgot about it! So Lara got robbed? Can anyone fill me in on how the fight went specifically? ta

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:This fight has gotten such poor coverage I actually forgot about it! So Lara got robbed? Can anyone fill me in on how the fight went specifically? ta

Octopus arms from Williams, Lara picking one two's or leading with the straight left (southpaw). An active 20% accuracy vs slightly inactive 40% from Lara, Lara's shots doing more damage. Most people give it to Lara by around 4, decision goes to Williams.

Nice move by the control board. Was an awful decision and they're showing that they won't stand for it, the judges either do need to be trained or stop taking back handers. Sure i remember HBO mention the biggest fight any of the judges had officiated had been the recent Zab Judah/ Kaiser Mabuza title fight.

Serves them right a rematch has to happen, but I worry for Williams health if that does happen.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Serves them right a rematch has to happen, but I worry for Williams health if that does happen.

No, would expect him to eat straight lefts all night for the third fight in a row, i was just waiting for him to collapse but it never came, not sure if he would last another 12 against Lara, a rematch is the right thing though.

Daz + Balti...

I suppose the one HINT of solace we have is that someone like Sergio Martinez has simply laughed off losses like this.

He has been robbed in big fights and is now recognised as THE man at Middleweight (and well deserved of course) despite a KO win with Cintron going to a draw (?!?!?!) and his first fight with Williams (which of course was alot closer than this monstrosity).

But in recent times, we have seen some disgusting decisions - but the words of the likes of The Ring, the hardcore boxing fans and those who actually watch the fights back will realise who the real winners are.

It's just a shame that a few of these guys who are sat at ringside have LESS knowledge than those who watch at home.

Maybe boxing would be better off in some weird X Factor style vote from the public. Making the public decide the winners!!! Haha

I dont agree that the result should be overturned as it sets a bad precedent. In other sports poor officiating and judging does not entitle a reversal of the decision. I think that opens up too big a can of worms.

I think the stance taken is appropriate and incompetent judging should be reviewed and action taken to suspend the judge if necessary. The only reason a decision should be overturned or set to a no contest is if genuine corruption can be shown. Otherwise the integrity of judges is completely undermined.

Colonial Lion wrote:I dont agree that the result should be overturned as it sets a bad precedent. In other sports poor officiating and judging does not entitle a reversal of the decision. I think that opens up too big a can of worms.

I think the stance taken is appropriate and incompetent judging should be reviewed and action taken to suspend the judge if necessary. The only reason a decision should be overturned or set to a no contest is if genuine corruption can be shown. Otherwise the integrity of judges is completely undermined.

So, using Martinez vs. Cintron as an example... Martinez is outworking, more accurate, scores bigger and cleaner punches AND punches Cintron until he cannot stand up within the standard 10 count. The Ref COUNTS TO 10, then decides the fight should continue. A morale-destroyed Martinez goes on to finish the fight with an obvious cheat and still should have won. Cintron STEALS a Draw.

The ref AND judges walk away scott-free and everyone is left wondering what on earth happened in that fight.

There's a close contentious fight that could be scored either way by the influence of the crowd or the hype... some call this a robbery. Then theres an active fight in which one guy is CONTINUALLY landing clean shots, controlling an active amount of the pace and is controlling the ring to his advantage... and loses?

People are turning off boxing because of this, it's unfair that if a guy is nearly killing another, the loser is awarded the nod. Lara, would have had to near on murder Williams that night and Williams still would have been awarded a draw.

It's not about opening a can of worms, it's about what is FAIR in a sport. Even FIFA are looking into goal-line tech, why can't boxing look into more decisions being overturned? Because it might unravell how corrupt our favourate sport is? Let it happened.

As Joe Cortez says "Firm and Fair" - it's time these clowns in the "Governing Bodies" start acting like it.

Colonial Lion wrote:I dont agree that the result should be overturned as it sets a bad precedent. In other sports poor officiating and judging does not entitle a reversal of the decision. I think that opens up too big a can of worms.

I think the stance taken is appropriate and incompetent judging should be reviewed and action taken to suspend the judge if necessary. The only reason a decision should be overturned or set to a no contest is if genuine corruption can be shown. Otherwise the integrity of judges is completely undermined.

I don't think it sets a bad precedent. If it forces judges to score more accurately and more fairly or risk facing punitive measures, then that's fair enough. A trustworthy overseeing body would have to make the final decision, but if over time the sport is made better as a result, then it's worth it.

School Project wrote:

Colonial Lion wrote:I dont agree that the result should be overturned as it sets a bad precedent. In other sports poor officiating and judging does not entitle a reversal of the decision. I think that opens up too big a can of worms.

I think the stance taken is appropriate and incompetent judging should be reviewed and action taken to suspend the judge if necessary. The only reason a decision should be overturned or set to a no contest is if genuine corruption can be shown. Otherwise the integrity of judges is completely undermined.

So, using Martinez vs. Cintron as an example... Martinez is outworking, more accurate, scores bigger and cleaner punches AND punches Cintron until he cannot stand up within the standard 10 count. The Ref COUNTS TO 10, then decides the fight should continue. A morale-destroyed Martinez goes on to finish the fight with an obvious cheat and still should have won. Cintron STEALS a Draw.

The ref AND judges walk away scott-free and everyone is left wondering what on earth happened in that fight.

There's a close contentious fight that could be scored either way by the influence of the crowd or the hype... some call this a robbery. Then theres an active fight in which one guy is CONTINUALLY landing clean shots, controlling an active amount of the pace and is controlling the ring to his advantage... and loses?

People are turning off boxing because of this, it's unfair that if a guy is nearly killing another, the loser is awarded the nod. Lara, would have had to near on murder Williams that night and Williams still would have been awarded a draw.

It's not about opening a can of worms, it's about what is FAIR in a sport. Even FIFA are looking into goal-line tech, why can't boxing look into more decisions being overturned? Because it might unravell how corrupt our favourate sport is? Let it happened.

As Joe Cortez says "Firm and Fair" - it's time these clowns in the "Governing Bodies" start acting like it.

Well do FIFA overturn a result everytime a referee or linesman make a bad decision? If a goal is ruled incorrectly offside should the match be annulled?

Unfortunately every so often in boxing you will get a mistake or incompetency. But once you start overturning judges decisions then you may aswell not have them there in the first place. Boxing fans have a habit of labelling any result they disagee with as a "robbery" and while every so often there is a clearly incorrect decision, such as the recent Williams fight, there are also plenty that are close and subjective. Sturm v Macklin for instance was not a robbery, yet I have seen it called that. Its a slippery slope to start on and drawing the line on it would become very difficult. Robberies of the Lara/Williams scale are actually much less common then some are insinuating. The problem is people tend to consider any fight they didnt agee with the decision on as some kind of robbery. Its not the case and I dont think its worth opening up such a large and difficult to regulate can of worms for the very rare instances a major robbery like this does occur.

I would far rather that the judges performances are reviewed and appropriate action taken. If possible a rematch should also be ordered.

Got to say I am with the Lion on this one. The thing that must be remembered is boxing is quite unusual for a sport in that the scoring of it is subjective, as such contentious decisions will never be eliminated and what is often called a robbery is merely one persons interpretation of how things went. In the past have seen Clazaghe Ried and Hatton Colloze described as robberies when the truth is they were simply close fights that could have gone either way. Results where someone is flat out shafted are less frequent than is often portrayed and are not happening often enough to justify opening the can of worms

Would agree that, while the judges being suspended for the time being is a good move (I scored that fight 117-111 to Lara, and it's one of the few results I would honestly call a 'robbery'), I don't think they should go as far as reversing the result. While it seems fair from the outset - and I do feel for Lara in this situation - where would you draw the line?

If we're going to restrospectively overturn this decision, do we then go back to another shocker such as Catley-Woodhall and do the same there? Do we also reverse the decision of Malignaggi-Diaz I? What it Pernell Whitaker wants the Ramirez I and Chavez results revisited and altered?

I wouldn't recommend decisions being overturned either, New Jersey has done what a lot of Athletic Commisions don't do, held their hands up and admitted things weren't right with the scoring, that's good enough for me. I don't think it's possible to just change a decision without any evidence of corruption or a genuine mistake. At least both fighters can enter the ring again to sort it out, should have been settled fairly the first time though, knowing Lara's luck, Williams will end up winning the rematch fairly.

Nevermind reversing it, but why exactly can they not declare it null and void? In this age when the '0' is king, it's a pretty big issue.

BALTIMORA wrote:Nevermind reversing it, but why exactly can they not declare it null and void? In this age when the '0' is king, it's a pretty big issue.

If the decision is that bad that judges are suspended and sent for training, then i can't see why it couldn't be ruled a no contest, i'm not sure of the rules though.

The Galveston Giant wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Nevermind reversing it, but why exactly can they not declare it null and void? In this age when the '0' is king, it's a pretty big issue.

If the decision is that bad that judges are suspended and sent for training, then i can't see why it couldn't be ruled a no contest, i'm not sure of the rules though.

Exactly. "This result is a massive travesty, you've embarrassed us and yourselves with your scoring. But...the result's gonna stand, and be a stain on one guy's record." Regardless of what the fans KNOW to be the actual case, Lara still has that 'L', which he shouldn't.