Newcastle Falcons - Premiership 2022 - 2023 A New Start

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby (Non Rugby Matters): Matt Thompson
Head Coach & DOR (Rugby Matters): Steve Diamond
Forwards Coach: Micky Ward
Defence Coach: Scott Baldwin
Attack Coach: Mark Laycock
Lineout Coach: Scott Macleod
Skills Coach: Mark Laycock
S&C: Tim Payne

Current Squad:

Hookers
Jamie Blamire
Charlie Maddison
Corbin Thunder
Michael Van Vuuren
Bryan Byrne
Ollie Fletcher

Props
TH
Eduardo Bello
Murray MaCallum
Richard Palframan
Mark Tampin
Sam Clark (A)

LH
Adam Brocklebank
Mark Dormer (A)
Mike Rewcastle (A)
Isaac Keller (A)
Phil Brantingham - Leaving in the summer - Saracens
Luin De Bruin - Signed for the summer for 2 years

Locks
Sebastian De Chaves
Luke Coulston (A)
Kiran McDonald
Tim Cardall

Back 5
Pedro Rubiolo
Philip van der Walt
John Kelly
John Hawkins

Back Row
Callum Chick
Cameron Neild - Signed for Summer for 2 years
Josh Bainbridge
Freddie Lockwood
Guy Pepper - Leaving in the summer
Ollie Leatherbarrow
Marcus Tiffin
Sam Cross
Matt Deehan (A)

Scrum Halves
Sam Stuart
Josh Barton
Hugh O'Sullivan
Ben Douglas (A)

Fly Halves
Brett Connon
Rory Jennings
Josh Thomas
Louie Johnson - Leaving in the summer - Saracens

Centres
Matias Moroni
George Wacokecoke
Cameron Hutchison
Matias Orlando
Jordan Holgate
Oli Spencer (A)

Centres / Wingers
Vereimi Qorowale
Zach Kerr (A)

Wingers
Ben Stevenson
Adam Radwan
Nathan Greenwood (A)
Iwan Srephens
Alex Hearle - Signed for the summer for 2 years

Full Back
Tom Penny
Louis Brown
Elliott Obatoyinbo
Ben Redshaw (A)

Sad to hear the circumstances of his exit. Sounds like it was Gustards decision to move to youth before being booted.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sad to hear the circumstances of his exit. Sounds like it was Gustards decision to move to youth before being booted.

I got the impression Gustard was fighting the Quins old boys. The Robshaw, Care and Brown types who may have not wanted to change the style of rugby. I think Care said something about you can't just come in and change the culture. As such removing the desenting voices who are on a hefty wage was probably what he decided to do. He obviously left before it came through.

Brown has looked in good form this season. Falcons could maybe find themselves with a player enjoying an Indian Summer in his career. I've been impressed by what I've seen from Penny at the back so competition there should bring the best out of both.

May well be truth in that. A more experienced manager may well have looked at those players and thought I may have to change a bit. Youth and inexperience can lead to thinking I need to be a strong voice. Given Borwn's form at present it looks a mistake.

It's a tough one. No one can be bigger than the club and if your experienced players go past constructive feedback to open dissent then I'd suggest they need to be brought into line or got rid of. If the person in charge can't get squad buy in though have you got the right chief?

Quins have struggled since winning the Prem under COS. The golden generation has aged and never reached another peak. Attempts to move away from the COS style have gone badly. The old boys in the coaching set up probably don't help. Whomever is in charge at the minute seems to have found middle ground though I'm surprised that Quins are looking for a new head coach.

Brown at Falcons should fit in nicely with what they want to do. He should enjoy the flyers they have on the wing when he goes on the counter attack or puts one of his big kicks up. You'd imagine Flood will retire at the end of the season so getting another experienced voice into that backline will only help.

Happy with the signing, I imagine he'll be a big influence on and off the pitch.

Well if we can play like we did for the second half more woften then Briwn will enjoy his time here.

But I agree Penny is playing very well and adapting to the position nicely. Dean loves to rotate so no issues.

The key thing will be how he works with the kids...particularly Matty Ward and Iwan Stephens (a 19yo recruit from Leeds Rhinos who's an identikit replacement for Josh Hodge) They are both massively exciting talents and his input will be priceless.

Bright future ahead of Brown (35 years old) and Newcastle!!!!

TH he'll be here in a coaching capacity aswell I would assume.

If he and Flood can get our talented young kids working then yes a very bright future.

GeordieFalcon wrote:TH he'll be here in a coaching capacity aswell I would assume.

If he and Flood can get our talented young kids working then yes a very bright future.

Is he qualified?

Does he need to be?

Is it time for Dean and the coaching team to go?

Have we moved forward in the ten years he's been in?
Do we have an identifiable style?
Our attacking is...truly awful
Our scrum Continues to be a struggle.
Poor use of the academy.. specifically the backs
Poor selections

Etc etc

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why have so many back rowers aswell.
Chick, Wilson, Welch, Graham, Hardie, Van der Walt are all seniors.
Then you have Collett who has been very good but demoted as soon as a senior comes back.
Then we have a load of young back rowers who are excellent and should be the back ups...like Farrar..a 6'3 powerful blindside who is strong enough to play lock aswell.  

Free up some seniors like Van Der Walt and Hardie and bring in some props..

Yeh I think Deano has messed up the balance
Uzokwe IMO was a good example of this currently on 3 tries in 3 games for Ealing starting at 7, yet Deano never really gave him a crack at it and would've been a cheaper option than say Hardie. Collett seems to be suffering a bit from the same thing.

Welly it's a common gripe amongst the falcons fans...his use of the academy lads.

Collett was outstanding at the start of the season...a breath of fresh air...then just dropped out if sight...

We see all the other teams blooding their lads and ours get held back for years for hasbeens like Alex Tait etc. . It's no wonder really they move on. Look at kibirige for a good example  

Keep Chick, Welch, Wilson, Collett and Graham.
Let Hardie and Van Der Walt go. I'm sure their Contracts must be up soon anyway.

Then back up with Farrar, Marshall, Richards and a few of the other kids.

Also end the Kyle Cooper to Lh prop project.
If he's not what Dean wants at Hooker...move him on and free up more money for some front 5 monsters.

When I look at your props
Mulipola (34)
Welsh (34)
Lockwood (33)
Ah you (32)
Cooper (32)
Tampin (29)
Davison (28)
Daniels (28)
Brocklebank (25)

That's most likely the most senior props in any team in the league and also the oldest.
Most teams tend to have 6 or 7.
and no offense to them but only Daniels, Logo and Ah You had any previous top flight experience and none of those 3 signed as starters already.

But Brantingham is the most promising prop in last years U18.

Ah you is class but never plays due to injury.
Daniels is permanently injured.
Lockwood hasnt been heard of this season.
Welsh out for two years...first game back and Wiese puts him out again..
Tampin isn't good enough
I'd get shot of the lot...

Trevor Davison has been excellent this season just gets better and better...and Brocklebank will be good.

We have a great batch coming through. You mention Brantingham but we also have young lad conrad Cade at LH who is great potential..and we have Oscar Caudle at TH hes a monster. Played for tynedale at 18 year old, hes a great hope.

Lock is another huge area...fuser and Peterson have been class. Robinson is great but then we have nothing else. Barry is not a prem player.

We need a massive cull. And use the academy....but Dean wont do it

The current squad members id probably release and look to replace the following ( I'm aware theres a lot of EQ players there)

FORWARDS
Rodney Ah You
Mike Daniels
Sam Lockwood 2021
Mark Tampin 2021
Jon Welsh 2021
Darren Barry - Replace with a big power lock
Toby Salmon 2021 - no need to replace we have academy players
John Hardie 2021 - no need to replace we have academy players

BACKS
Louis Schreuder 2021- Kelemeti, Pascoe and Blackett can play
Toby Flood 2022- Coaching, replace with quality 10
Gareth Owen 2021 - Replace with Stevenson, Obonna, Wakecoke etc
Joel Matavesi - Replace with Stevenson, Obonna, Wakecoke etc
Cooper Vuna 2021 - Replace with Ward, Passman, Zerr etc
Tom Arscott 2022 -Replaced by Brown, whilst Passman efc cover wing
Alex Tait 2022 - TBC unsure, coaching?

By moving on at least 6 players in positions we have some quality and replacing them with academy players who are ready for games we have extra budget that we can put into the front 5 and fly half (if required)

Connon and Hodgson are adequate flyhalfs. The market for playmakers seem to be difficult currently. As evidenced by Bath signing Cipriani a flyhalf who in no way fits their style of play and who won't have been cheap.

Front five is where there should be a significant shopping list. South Africa and the Championship hold affordable versions of both for the budget conscious. The Falcons backrow is so damn good and the defence is ferocious. They are already difficult to beat, if a rock solid set piece is added then Flacons can start eying the top 6. It might not be pretty but it's where Sale started from and then started adding attacking structure and Tigers are in the same process. Tigers just have the benefit of a stable of high quality props.

Welly wrote:When I look at your props
Mulipola (34)
Welsh (34)
Lockwood (33)
Ah you (32)
Cooper (32)
Tampin (29)
Davison (28)
Daniels (28)
Brocklebank (25)

That's most likely the most senior props in any team in the league and also the oldest.
Most teams tend to have 6 or 7.
and no offense to them but only Daniels, Logo and Ah You had any previous top flight experience and none of those 3 signed as starters already.

But Brantingham is the most promising prop in last years U18.

It's been our issue for as long as I can remember.....we have a multitude of poor props rather 4 or 5 quality ones. To be fair though....this is the first time this season we've really struggled in the scrum, we've actually performed pretty well with Davison/Logo (but not with any of the others).

I'm a bit unsure if I can get too upset really. We have the lowest budget in the league by a distance, we are struggling financially, but.....when everyone is fit and we put our best side out, we can match most. I agree the style of rugby goes up and down through the season and I thought with ringfencing we would cut loose somewhat, we actually seem to regressed which is odd.

Recruitment on the whole over the years has been poor, but I think we've actually done an ok job this season really. As much as it pains me to say, we should get beat by Leicester 8/10 times. They have a much higher playing budget than us and seemed to have turned a corner in performances....we are not playing well and had some key players out.

But Sgt, my issue is that we don't use the Academy as other clubs do.

How often are talented players held back for too long...

Other clubs blood players at 18- 22, we frequently hold them back till after that.

Do you think if Tigers for example had players Obonna or Matty Ward or Big Tight Head Oscar Caudle they wouldn't have given them prem experience by now? Even just a few minutes here and there?

But Dean seemingly refuses to do so.

And it's this mentality that has the knock on of affecting his recruitment. If he trusted them as back ups...he could spend more of the budget on better quality players...instead of having large numbers of injury prone guys who aren't good enough.

We're spending so much on back rowers like Hardie who never plays. Get rid of him and free up his budget. Use Farrer, Marshall, Collet as his replacement.

Put the budget into the front 5.

To be fair Tigers only used to promote the obvious outstanding candidate under Cockers. He had no interest in a development pathway or rewarding any younger player who might have shown up well in a weakened team for a Anglo-Welsh Cup game. Richards seems to be using the same philosophy.

It wasn't really until Mauger and Murphy took control that we saw a proper development pathway emerge and players get real shots at the first team. Borthwick has a very different take on it, if he thinks they are going to be good enough and that they work hard they aren't given a chance they are selected to play and win. It's subtle change in thinking but it's working, we've got kids of 19/20/21 playing like players in their mid twenties. With the cap reducing next season it's a very useful change in mindset for us.

There's no reason Falcons couldn't do the same and in fact every reason they should. Maybe Richards has done his course at Falcons and it's just time to freshen up the thinking. A shame Gustard went to Italy before Falcons could have got hold of him as I think it would have been a more natural fit for him there than at Quins.

That's it Sam. We have a tiny budget so we have to e smart and manage the squad correctly. Use the budget for the quality where we need it and use the academy players elsewhere.

Which will be the case for everyone next season GF. No one's going to be able to sign their way out of development. Tigers current method of trying to find recent under 20s or under 20 graduates that fit what we need but who aren't getting top level game time and have a point to prove appears to be working.

Hooker - Dolly
TH - Hurd
Lock - Henderson, Chessum
Centre - Kelly

All 21 or under, all signed in the last 12 months and all played for the first team.

Do Falcons have a dedicated head of recruitment or does Deano oversee that as well?

No idea about who's responsible for recruitment Sam. I can only assume its Dean.

I guess that might be another case of budget though.
Head of recruitment = another chunk of money that could be on the wage.

Deano isn't dumb he can spot talent
Josh Basham was a sneaky and smart signing.
Collett was another smart signing
Wacokecoke
Tom Penny
All smart and cheap signings either signed young or mid 20's.

Just seems that for every interesting cheap younger player he signs, he then signs 2 older players that don't make as much sense.

Just in the case of Basham and Collett he then doesn't seem to want to back them.

Wonder with relegation now scrapped Falcons might reduce the size of their squad.
Cause despite the low budget I think Falcons have one of the larger squads in the league and as Falcon said you could realistically replace 8 senior players with the younger/breakthrough players right away.

Jeremy Jordaan is being linked I see. 6ft6 and 20 stone. Leaving relegated Agen. Looks a bit of a punt rather than a certainty but added size in the second row is required.

Would be a good addition to Newcastle’s sizeable second rows. Two good finds, as I hadn’t heard of them before they turned up in the north east.

Yeah I noticed right on queue we are linked with a bigger unit at lock...and Barry is on his way.

He should be better than Darren Barry who has done nothing of note.

Welly wrote: I guess that might be another case of budget though.
Head of recruitment = another chunk of money that could be on the wage.

Deano isn't dumb he can spot talent
Josh Basham was a sneaky and smart signing.  
Collett was another smart signing
Wacokecoke
Tom Penny
All smart and cheap signings either signed young or mid 20's.

Just seems that for every interesting cheap younger player he signs, he then signs 2 older players that don't make as much sense.

Just in the case of Basham and Collett he then doesn't seem to want to back them.

Tom Penny came through rhe academy but was injruy prone..he's come to life this season finally.

You've hit the nail on rhe head with Collett and Basham though...why waste budget on Hardie who's injury plagued and not the player he used to be when we have those two youngsters. Collett was hugely impressive in our start of the season run...then simply dropped.

Wakecoke came through the academy aswell but barely figured until he was 23/24 another example of my frustration at how slow they are brought through.

Hopefully the clear out im mentioning here is happening.

The coaches need to be sorted aswell.

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be a good addition to Newcastle’s sizeable second rows. Two good finds, as I hadn’t heard of them before they turned up in the north east.

Mike, Fuser was an Italian International...a surprising signing but he's been immense for us. Peterson is a huge guy but he's been around the block. However since he's joined us he seems to have finally started putting in performances of quality. It's the back up we need. Robinson is a class act but he's excelled at 6 this season...so we need a bruiser. Fortunately Barry is on his way and clearly they have listen to me

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be a good addition to Newcastle’s sizeable second rows. Two good finds, as I hadn’t heard of them before they turned up in the north east.

Mike, Fuser was an Italian International...a surprising signing but he's been immense for us. Peterson is a huge guy but he's been around the block. However since he's joined us he seems to have finally started putting in performances of quality.  It's the back up we need. Robinson is a class act but he's excelled at 6 this season...so we need a bruiser.  Fortunately Barry is on his way and clearly they have listen to me

Peterson was a huge enigma at Glasgow, just never seemed to use his bulk to any great effect and was a bit of a disappointment. Good to see him doing so well at Falcons but it was a surprise to Glasgow fans.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Jeremy Jordaan is being linked I see. 6ft6 and 20 stone. Leaving relegated Agen. Looks a bit of a punt rather than a certainty but added size in the second row is required.

Sam, Peterson was similar when we signed him. Mixed reviews from various club fans...yet he's been very good for us indeed.

Barry has done absolutely nothing for us so I'll take the risk on a big South African.

BigGee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Would be a good addition to Newcastle’s sizeable second rows. Two good finds, as I hadn’t heard of them before they turned up in the north east.

Mike, Fuser was an Italian International...a surprising signing but he's been immense for us. Peterson is a huge guy but he's been around the block. However since he's joined us he seems to have finally started putting in performances of quality.  It's the back up we need. Robinson is a class act but he's excelled at 6 this season...so we need a bruiser.  Fortunately Barry is on his way and clearly they have listen to me

Peterson was a huge enigma at Glasgow, just never seemed to use his bulk to any great effect and was a bit of a disappointment. Good to see him doing so well at Falcons but it was a surprise to Glasgow fans.

Yeah as I've just said he's been great for us. But more as rhe line-out guy with the powerhouse Fuser alongside him

They've developed into a great partnership.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Welly wrote: I guess that might be another case of budget though.
Head of recruitment = another chunk of money that could be on the wage.

Deano isn't dumb he can spot talent
Josh Basham was a sneaky and smart signing.  
Collett was another smart signing
Wacokecoke
Tom Penny
All smart and cheap signings either signed young or mid 20's.

Just seems that for every interesting cheap younger player he signs, he then signs 2 older players that don't make as much sense.

Just in the case of Basham and Collett he then doesn't seem to want to back them.

Tom Penny came through rhe academy but was injruy prone..he's come to life this season finally.

You've hit the nail on rhe head with Collett and Basham though...why waste budget on Hardie who's injury plagued and not the player he used to be when we have those two youngsters. Collett was hugely impressive in our start of the season run...then simply dropped.

Wakecoke came through the academy aswell but barely figured until he was 23/24 another example of my frustration at how slow they are brought through.  

Hopefully the clear out im mentioning here is happening.

The coaches need to be sorted aswell.

Made a mistake forgetting he was on loan to Quins.
Wasn't Wakecoke from Bath academy?

Just checked, yes he was at bath from 2014 to 2015 then up to us in 2015.

So Darren Barry is the first of the clear out .......hopefully
Off to France with immediate effect.

Toby Salmon recalled...lets see is he can stay fit to actually play a game...otherwise he's got to follow Darren out of the door in the summer.

I see ruck has reported some salaries...

Saints top earner:
Biggar - £600k
Naiyaeavula - £400k
Lawes- £320k

Falcons
Flood - £230k
Wilson - £210k
Mulipola - £180k

We just can't compete....

Surprised you've got away with paying Wilson so little though in the current market when everyone is taking pay cuts that's probably more than quite a few. Take Benny Youngs who took a pay cut from around £300-325k down to £200-225k to stay at Tigers and has then agreed a 25% pay cut to help offset the Covid impact. In fact all Tigers players earning over a certain amount (not specified but believed to be most the first team squad) took a 25% pay cut.

Other clubs have had to do similar, I'd be surprised if Saints haven't. Might mean Falcons are a bit closer that they were before.

Carl Fearns signed....until end of 22-23 season.

Lots of unrest in the falcons family now about the style and tactics...first time ive ever really seen a majority of fans questioning Dean and his coaching team now.

Sgt
Is it time for Dean to go?

Rob Farrar and Josh Basham will be promoted to the full first team next season from the academy.

Should mean Hardie and possibly De Walt are on their way, plus a few others. Free up some budget space for some quality props!

Hardie has been a disappointment but I like De Walt, we just never seem to have the same unit out.

Watching at the weekend, Connon was really bad. I think it may be the end of the road for him soon, he's just not kicking on at all.

Whats your thoughts on Dean and the coaches Sgt?

Agree i had hope for Connon but im just not sure now.

We need to get rid of all the deadwood and promote the quality academy and then bring in what we need.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whats your thoughts on Dean and the coaches Sgt?

I'm not sure really. Over the years I've been quite harsh on them but honestly these days, we're so far behind in budget, what can we expect?

Take the Gloucester game. The amount of one on one tackles missed.....this is not coaching, this is poor players.

I just think sometimes we need to be a bit realistic, especially with the current squad.

You see im kind of the other way...attacking skills etc i agree we just dont have the handling ability etc...but surely EVERYONE at that level should be able to tackle.

At local club level we can all tackle.

Who would you let go this season from the squad and replace...

I would say:
TH - Rodney Ah You, , Welsh, Mike Daniels - Both Injury Prone
LH - Sam Lockwood - Injury prone and not very good
Lock: Toby Salmon,
6&7's: Jon Hardie,
8: Philip van der Walt,

Backs
SH's: Louis Schreuder,
Fh's: Joel Matavesi
12's: Gareth Owen,
Wing: Cooper Vuna,
FB's: Alex Tait, Tom Arscott,

Proper Clear out.....

You would keep Jon Welsh GF? Solid TH when fit, however unfortunately struggled on that front.

Currently have 9 props in the senior squad which seems overkill considering none are threatening international honours. Kyle Cooper could be another to move on.

Looking at the front row from the outside;

Hooker - McGuigan, Blamire, Maddison, Smith. Outside the first two looks a bit weaker but passable enough. Could maybe move Kyle Cooper back to hooker but might depend on budget.

Loosehead - Sam Lockwood, Adam Brocklebank, Trevor Davison, Kyle Cooper. Looking at that I don't see Premiership quality looseheads there. Davison and Brocklebank might be ok if they were back up a bit of real quality.

Tighthead - Rodney Ah You, Logo Mulipola, Mark Tampin, Mike Daniels, Jon Welsh. Well that's less tightheads and more physio fodder. Tampin looked decent in the Championship so might be good to keep as a back up and Mulipola can play both sides so that's beneficial. I thought Ah You looked good for you guys when he was fit.

So what two tightheads and a loosehead?

LH - X, Davison, Brocklebank
TH - X, X, Tampin
Both - Mulipola

Do you think there's much chance of that? Maybe if you've got a scout with good knowledge of the Championship and South Africa.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Looking at the front row from the outside;

Hooker - McGuigan, Blamire, Maddison, Smith. Outside the first two looks a bit weaker but passable enough. Could maybe move Kyle Cooper back to hooker but might depend on budget.

Loosehead - Sam Lockwood, Adam Brocklebank, Trevor Davison, Kyle Cooper. Looking at that I don't see Premiership quality looseheads there. Davison and Brocklebank might be ok if they were back up a bit of real quality.

Tighthead -  Rodney Ah You, Logo Mulipola, Mark Tampin, Mike Daniels, Jon Welsh. Well that's less tightheads and more physio fodder. Tampin looked decent in the Championship so might be good to keep as a back up and Mulipola can play both sides so that's beneficial. I thought Ah You looked good for you guys when he was fit.

So what two tightheads and a loosehead?

LH - X, Davison, Brocklebank
TH - X, X, Tampin
Both - Mulipola

Do you think there's much chance of that? Maybe if you've got a scout with good knowledge of the Championship and South Africa.

Davison (which much surprise) has performed outstandingly this season to be fair and has proved himself more than capable. Our scrum on the whole has got the better of the opposition with him and Mulipola playing.....after that though, its a bit of a shambles.

Brocklebank is 25, so possibly worth sticking with, but a quality addition is much needed to alternate with Davison.

TH is a bit more of a mess. Past Mulipola, Welsh is a shadow and needs to go, Ah You is good but always injured, Tampin hasn't showed anything and Daniels is not good enough.

If you think Tampin & Daniels are on 60-100k? Welsh and Ah You, possibly 100k each? You're getting up to 300/350k.