The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

Parasocial relationships. People feel they know her because her private life is so exposed to the world. Pretty natural phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction

The reaction is more visceral and immediate than the death of someone we don't 'know' whatever form it takes. And yet, those who either post gushing RIPs or sneer at her perceived failings certainly don't know the first thing about the person she was behind the problems she had.

That's why I find some of the comments made about her since her death pretty distasteful. We are in no position to judge either way.

There are many, many people Amy's age dying of drink and drugs or killing themselves each year. The idea that Amy's actions are due to being a "tortured genius" is a facile myth. She's no more tortured than a 27 year old fella who works in the local Morphy Richards factory who has split up with the mother of his kid, lives on a crime-ridden estate and suffers from depression. You want musical geniuses who have made exquisite, jaw-dropping music who didn't buy into that Fisher Price "pain is part of artistry" romanticism? Lou Reed and John Cale, David Bowie, Howlin' Wolf, Beethoven, Fela Kuti, Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa, Carole King... The list is endless. Brian Eno has done infinitely more for music than Brian Jones. You want a troubled soul? Go and drink in any inner city ten minutes before throwing-out time. Or a park after-hours.

Near 100 Norwegians vs Amy Winehouse = no medya-hype contest. For a week anyway.

Sad but true.

Well put Notch.

Do "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few - and the One?"

Truth is... the masses really don't give a phhok, as long as it feeds their "inner-needs".

Nite.

Don Alfonso wrote:There are many, many people Amy's age dying of drink and drugs or killing themselves each year. The idea that Amy's actions are due to being a "tortured genius" is a facile myth. She's no more tortured than a 27 year old fella who works in the local Morphy Richards factory who has split up with the mother of his kid, lives on a crime-ridden estate and suffers from depression.

No, but being a 'celebrity' hardly excludes her from feeling the same way and having similar problems.

Don Alfonso wrote:There are many, many people Amy's age dying of drink and drugs or killing themselves each year. The idea that Amy's actions are due to being a "tortured genius" is a facile myth. She's no more tortured than a 27 year old fella who works in the local Morphy Richards factory who has split up with the mother of his kid, lives on a crime-ridden estate and suffers from depression. You want musical geniuses who have made exquisite, jaw-dropping music who didn't buy into that Fisher Price "pain is part of artistry" romanticism? Lou Reed and John Cale, David Bowie, Howlin' Wolf, Beethoven, Fela Kuti, Captain Beefheart and Frank Zappa, Carole King... The list is endless. Brian Eno has done infinitely more for music than Brian Jones. You want a troubled soul? Go and drink in any inner city ten minutes before throwing-out time. Or a park after-hours.

Just before I crash... Don, agree on all the artists mentioned. But they were all on serious drugs. She just could not handle it.

The reason her death - as a "pop" musician, is important, is thro all the phhoking sheet Ive heard over the last 20 years - she stood out. Her and Prince. Very few others were so unique, imo. Michael Jackson was on "prescribed" drugs. But he was special - in pop.

Most of the rest was total and utter revamped - pap. That's me dead with the under 30's in here. I have heard the music they like. It's nice.. but its been done before. They are all Tribute Bands to me. Some better than others.

Absolutely, Notch. You key phrase being "the SAME way". No more, no less than others who have never written a song or a novel. Sad, but neither part nor parcel of any musical gift. Or "being an artist" (boke). That's the nonsense idea that winds me up.

Gibbo - Beethoven? You're sure?

And Prince!!! How could I forget one of the foremost musical geniuses of our time?

Ever hear of that little aid called opium mo chara?

The Dutch East-Indies Company has a lot to answer for. TF.

Don Alfonso wrote:You want musical geniuses who have made exquisite, jaw-dropping music who didn't buy into that Fisher Price "pain is part of artistry" romanticism?

You know, this is also a misconception or misinterpretation. No-one has suggested that every artist suffers from mood disorders or everyone who suffers from mood disorders is an artist. What we have is two distinct groups with a slightly larger chance to overlap than if compared with the general population; in cases where the problem is not severe enough to completely shut down normal functioning. There is a better chance an 'artist' will have a mood disorder than a random member of the general population studies seem to indicate.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10400419009534353
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/imp/jcs/2004/00000011/F0020003/art00004

Think I'm watching the Kahn fight now. I'm still awake anyway.

Buzzing with Wigan. Great win there. Loved Josh Charnley's second and Tomkins' first try. Great game though. I think I have one more try left to watch.

Notch.
Can I say this? Edith Piaf, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Billie Holiday, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong (Mister jazz on cocaine) and vast amounts of others, who gave us so much joy and influenced all the rest - all opiate lovers.


Nite lads.

...John Cale...

Honestly, the man is as mad as a bag of frogs! Not a good example.

Morning all

How good was James O'Connor yesterday against the Boks. Wasted on the wing, needs to be at 12 and more involved in the game.

Sunday editions


http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport?mobile-redirect=false
http://sport.scotsman.com/rugby
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/rugby

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=80
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union

Never said Cale wasn't certifiable - my argument's a bit more nuanced than that. He doesn't think that it is part of being an artist. I remember at least one interview where he said it was part of being Welsh!

Does Amy Winehouse remind anyone else of Edith Piaf?

Don Alfonso wrote:Never said Cale wasn't certifiable - my argument's a bit more nuanced than that. He doesn't think that it is part of being an artist. I remember at least one interview where he said it was part of being Welsh!

Did Winehouse say that then?

Can people not just mourn the deaths of everyone instead of deciding between either the people in Norway or Amy Winehouse?

Munsty, I agree with that comment mate, it should not be a competition as to who is mourned more. I think my main gripe is the column inches that I am sure will be dedicated to Amy Winehouse this morning in comparison to other proper news stories.

My other thought on the matter is that yes it is sad, and I feel for her family and people close to her, but I have little in the way of sympathy for her to be honest, as she made the choice to take drugs and has in effect reaped what she has sowed. Maybe it is because I see it in my job on a regular basis that I am a bit desensitized to it.

I'm fully in agreement with Pete, I see junkies everyday in work and I promise you Flip all people would be bother if they died and i fail to see the difference between them and Winehouse, in fact actually id go as far to say she is worse than your normal junkie because she had the money to sort heraelf out

For me I'm sad in that it's just another case of someone wasting the wonderful gift of life. That it is so big in the media is not really a shock given that her troubles have always been reported widely and people enjoyed knowing about them then so why not now when she dies?

I am sad in the same sort of way for this guy that did all the killings in Norway just wondering where did it all go wrong for him.

Sad in a very different way for all those other people in Norway where there choice was taken away from them.

I am sad at all the other people that die but the media can't report on every single death. It's not feasible and to be honest would make reading the news very morbid.

hughie1986 wrote:I'm fully in agreement with Pete, I see junkies everyday in work and I promise you Flip all people would be bother if they died and i fail to see the difference between them and Winehouse, in fact actually id go as far to say she is worse than your normal junkie because she had the money to sort heraelf out

Money is not the answer.

In this situation it is, if she really wanted to sort.herself out her money would have given her access to the very very best treatments that is not available to your average junkie. So in this case her money gave her all the chances to sort herself out

It would have offered her opportunities but who says they would have been what worked for her?


Question for people, what do the regs think of so many of the All Blacks wearing different colour boots? I think 8 wore white boots from the 22 and Nonu wearing orange against Fiji. I personally am not a fan of it at all.

MBTGOG wrote:It would have offered her opportunities but who says they would have been what worked for her?


Question for people, what do the regs think of so many of the All Blacks wearing different colour boots? I think 8 wore white boots from the 22 and Nonu wearing orange against Fiji. I personally am not a fan of it at all.

What's the problem with what colour boots they wear, it doesn't affect how they play so its grand. Also you must be very bored if that is the best thing you could come up with to talk about

I think it takes away from the All Black mystique personally. Plus I don't think it looks very good.

As to me being very bored, it's the same as discussing new jerseys when they come out and I read it in an article this morning that is part of your morning papers.

Amy Winehouse DID try and sort herself out. She was in a rehab programme to deal with her alcaholism just a few weeks back. She tried many different forms of rehab to sort herself out, she used the money she had to do this.

I have to say I'm sick of all the comments saying they've no sympathy, and not to say RIP etc. This was a highly troubled person who did seek out help and that still wasn't enough to save her, that for me makes it all the sadder.

You can't compare her death to that of the horrible events in Norway I don't think, but it's still sad, and I don't see why having a show of sympathy is bad/frowned upon my some people.

Not going to say anymore on it now.

Not all mad people are creative geniuses, but all creative geniuses are mad.

I don't frown on anyone showing sympathy for her dreamer, just saying that I have none for her myself.

Morning all.

England are doing ok in the cricket, despite losing Cook early on. They need quick runs on the board and a lead of about 400 by tea with four sessions to bowl India out.

Plus Middlesex hammered the old enemy, Surrey, by six wickets yesterday

But the Norway killings are so distressing. What an evil s.o.b.

I agree Pete, sympathy is probably too far, but surely you can empathise with her family? Mass hysterical sympathy for people we've never met is questionable, but so is the refusal of some to acknowledge (or even to deny) her undoubted talent because of her many flaws.

I do feel for her family Glas, they will have to grieve in the full glare of the media, something which I am not sure would be their choice.

It wouldn't be mine.

https://www.606v2.com/t10141-american-player-blocked-by-club-to-travel-to-the-world-cup#305010

Very worrying this development.

Limerick playing Dublin in the hurling now. Need to win this to keep the dream of the double alive.

Just as I post that, Dublin score a goal.

Everyone must be out enjoying the sun.

I'm sure it was mentioned yesterday but isn't it great news that 1F hopes to play some part in the forthcoming WC warm-up games. It was also pleasing to see him acknowledge that SOB is probably the best No.6 in Europe and he will have to fight to get his place back.

The Dubs are through to the All Ireland hurling semi final for the first time since 1948. And I actually got to see it on a stream. I can't wait for my trip next week now

Afternoon by the way...just watching the other semi now.

All excited Cari ? Hope you enjoy it. I'm just off out to do a short walk.

Cari,can you see TV3 matches online? Congrats to the Dubs but Limerick were very wasteful from the last ten minutes I saw.

No Dubs for me next week

That's terrible Cari. This is all Wicklow's fault!

I think the CCCC decide when and where the games will be played tomorrow (the Dubs game being the exception as that game can't be played for 2 weeks)

Just saw your reply on the other thread T. about who plays who. I don't suppose CP will even be open for a tour that weekend?

You can't go on a tour on match days Cari as it says here but according to this there are other activites to do.

Thanks Thom. Maybe I can do it on another day, and we can watch the other games in the house or a pub

I didn't read any of those links before I posted them but in the second one it says there is a tour on a match day next Saturday.

Also I heard The Script's "Science and Faith" song yesterday. It would remind you of some of U2's earlier stuff.

Thom - yeah I just saw that. I guess they change the tour slightly on match days...I suppose there's certain areas people can't go in on match days or something. Looks like there's two running that weekend too

I've got the Science & faith album and the first track is definitely U2 influenced. I realy like it. The Script were great when I saw them live in March too.

I've never done the tour but from what I know there is a spot for you to try out your skills with the camán and sliotar.

Watching the Copa America final tonight and I really need to get a decent sleep afterwards. I've been knackered since I came back!

Thom - yeah I heard about that...you even get to wear a helmet! I think that would be very funny actually. When Gibbo and me did the Millennium Stadium tour we had a good laugh, so it'll be fun I think.