England Vs Wales, the Build Up.

First topic message reminder :

OK so the world cup build starts in earnest with the first warm up game this weekend. I know this fixture in particular is likely to be used for experimentation but it is still a test match and the result between England and Wales always matters.

The first question is to what extent are these teams going to experiment in this match? Consistency of selection is vital to building momentum going into a world cup season but the training squads are large and as Hartely said in an interview recently '45 doesnt go into 30'. A squad of 30 does limit options with specialist positions such as hooker, scrum half and fly half needing 3 players, there will need to be other players covering more than one position.

For example each team will need a prop to cover both sides and wingers who have the skills to cover full back. Are there going to be any left field selections? For england; Stevens and Tuilagi could force their way into the squad and I would expect both to start on saturday. Other big questions for England are; is Jonno going to stick with the limited combination of Hape and Tindall in the centre? And now players are back from injury; Moody, Lawes, Croft, Flutey and Sheridan are they going to walk back into the side? Whose the first choice Back row?

What about Wales? Inconsistent in the 6 nations and inconsistency leads to questions in selection. 2 years ago they would have been pretty sure of their first 15, but now? Like england I think wales have problems in the centres and as a result struggle to find a settled strategy in attack. England do have a strategy with the 2 big centres but its limited. How do you wales fans think Gatland will tackle the sides deficiencies in attack? Lyidate and warburton have improved everytime I've seen wales but who will play no. 8? Where will james hook play? and what about full back and scrum half?

Many questions and hopefully there will be some answers on saturday.

Have a gander at this guys - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJciVUY0uI . Gets the blood going

I'm desperate to see our half-backs click and would dearly love to see

09 Williams
10 Hook

12 Henson
13 Roberts

With fast ball, creativity and the power of Roberts and maybe George as well then we'd have a backline to talk about.

Give it a go Gats.

munkian wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:For the second year in a row?

And the results the two years before that ?

62-5?

Re Hook in defense - hes much better going forward but I think his shoulder was shot when his worst defensive performances happened - dunno what its like now.

Big question with Hook at fly half must be who takes the kicks?

Draigoch wrote:Have a gander at this guys - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJciVUY0uI . Gets the blood going

I'm desperate to see our half-backs click and would dearly love to see

09 Williams
10 Hook

12 Henson
13 Roberts

With fast ball, creativity and the power of Roberts and maybe George as well then we'd have a backline to talk about.

Give it a go Gats.

I really dont think roberts has had a good season, I think that Davies is definitely ahead of him, and Williams is more skillfull

I don't think Hooks kicking is that bad - I think he's a reliable kicker but I think he's always needed someone physical next to him (Phillips when he was on form for 9,10 - Roberts for 12,13) when playing 15 with no-one next to him he was awful.

Breadvan wrote:

munkian wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:For the second year in a row?

And the results the two years before that ?

62-5?

Ha, when you werent playing our Junior Z team it was 27 – 18


And weirdly it was exactly the same score you beat us at home in 2011 as when we beat you at home in 2008 - 19 – 26


I doubt we'll beat you at Twickenham but I think we'll have you in Cardiff. So overall it will be 57-55 to you Saes. We'll catch up again

Junior z team!!!!!

The teams from theat great day. 62-5

15 Mathew Tait
14 David Strettle
13 Dan Hipkiss
12 Andy Farrell
11 Jason Robinson
10 Jonny Wilkinson
9 Shaun Perry
1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Mark Regan
3 Phil Vickery
4 Simon Shaw
5 Steve Borthwick
6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter

15 Lee Byrne
14 Aled Brew
13 Tom Shanklin
12 Gareth Thomas
11 Dafydd James
10 Ceri Sweeney
9 Gareth Cooper
1 Iestyn Thomas
2 Huw Bennett
3 Chris Horsman
4 Will James
5 Robert Sidoli
6 Alun-Wyn Jones
7 Colin Charvis
8 Michael Owen


Not really a weak team!

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Junior z team!!!!!

The teams from theat great day. 62-5

15 Mathew Tait
14 David Strettle
13 Dan Hipkiss
12 Andy Farrell
11 Jason Robinson
10 Jonny Wilkinson
9 Shaun Perry
1 Andrew Sheridan
2 Mark Regan
3 Phil Vickery
4 Simon Shaw
5 Steve Borthwick
6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter

Not really relevant to the sledging, but that England team makes me want to cry. Look at the backrow...(adopting a shrill high pitched voice) LOOK AT IT!

I won't be suprised if you beat us at HQ tho. Annoyed yes, as I'll be copping stick all evening from my Welsh friends & family! In fact both teams will probably win at each others place....

10 Ceri Sweeney
9 Gareth Cooper


Says it all....

Do you think that England are kindly wearing black so that Wales' confidence when we meet the real deal at the WC will be stronger after our victory this weekend? Also, will Riki, Shontayne & Dylan be performing a Haka before the game? It must be very confusing for them as they thought they had been rejected by their homeland.

munkian wrote:10 Ceri Sweeney
9 Gareth Cooper


Says it all....

that's the stuff of nightmares. I didn't want to be reminded of that!

I bought a ceri sweeney thsirt from OddGods for £1 last year ha ha !

deadfred wrote:Do you think that England are kindly wearing black so that Wales' confidence when we meet the real deal at the WC will be stronger after our victory this weekend? Also, will Riki, Shontayne & Dylan be performing a Haka before the game? It must be very confusing for them as they thought they had been rejected by their homeland.

Blatant GreyGhost plagarism. Get yer own material! Poor show frederick...

Not a good year for Welsh Rugby, bit hey, we've had worse...!

rugbydreamer wrote:

munkian wrote:10 Ceri Sweeney
9 Gareth Cooper


Says it all....

that's the stuff of nightmares. I didn't want to be reminded of that!

We had Shaun Perry mind....

Breadvan wrote:

deadfred wrote:Do you think that England are kindly wearing black so that Wales' confidence when we meet the real deal at the WC will be stronger after our victory this weekend? Also, will Riki, Shontayne & Dylan be performing a Haka before the game? It must be very confusing for them as they thought they had been rejected by their homeland.

Blatant GreyGhost plagarism. Get yer own material! Poor show frederick...

It must be something in our names i guess. The England All Blacks - has a certain ring to it though.

munkian wrote:I bought a ceri sweeney thsirt from OddGods for £1 last year ha ha !

Got to be done munkian.

As long as we dont wear our terrible blue cricket top.

I think Wales will win this weekend, after their poor show in the 6 nations they need to dig deep.

By the sounds of it Wales have been working really hard in there Polish training camp and will hit the ground running but I think they'll be too pumped up by the time they get to NZ that they'll struggle as they'll be burnt out mentally.

Gatland does have a habit of pushing players too far in training.

6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter


Not really relevant to the sledging, but that England team makes me want to cry. Look at the backrow...(adopting a shrill high pitched voice) LOOK AT IT! .

Minus Worsley and put in Moody and you have the backrow that started the final and that beat France and Australia along the way. Corry and Easter were really good at making yard off of rubbish ball and when combined with the nutty nature of Moody it seemed to work.

We did our best to give the game to Wales, after all we did play Perry, Farrell and Borthwick. All of whom were replaced pretty quickly, apart from Borthwick who was replaced not far into the tournament where the England management realised that they could have the same line out skills but double the work rate by selecting Ben Kay.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter


Not really relevant to the sledging, but that England team makes me want to cry. Look at the backrow...(adopting a shrill high pitched voice) LOOK AT IT! .

Minus Worsley and put in Moody and you have the backrow that started the final and that beat France and Australia along the way. Corry and Easter were really good at making yard off of rubbish ball and when combined with the nutty nature of Moody it seemed to work.

We did our best to give the game to Wales, after all we did play Perry, Farrell and Borthwick. All of whom were replaced pretty quickly, apart from Borthwick who was replaced not far into the tournament where the England management realised that they could have the same line out skills but double the work rate by selecting Ben Kay.

I remember Laurence Dallaglio was a pretty big part in the outcome of many of Englands games too?

Yet Borthwick went on to be your Captain.


*Nelson voice* Ha ha

I remember Laurence Dallaglio was a pretty big part in the outcome of many of Englands games too?.

You get that impression if you read his autobiography but not if you watch the games.

Yet Borthwick went on to be your Captain.

Yep. Until Palmer went to France and improved enough to dump the idiot out of the first team. His performances were average but his inability to admit the guff his side were serving up was intolerable. At least when Corry over saw a losing team he'd come out and apologise despite the fact he'd have put his body on the line and hit every ruck for 80 mins. All action and honest to little action and dream world. At the minute I'm not sure which of Easter/Moody/Tindall will be captain. Could do with a young tyro rallying the troups and leading by example (ala Johnno, Corry etc),

Pick one and stick with em !

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

I remember Laurence Dallaglio was a pretty big part in the outcome of many of Englands games too?.

You get that impression if you read his autobiography but not if you watch the games.
[quote]

He was a pretty important impact sub in all the games as I remember. He made a huge difference to England during his twilight games

I am afraid I couldn't read his biography, I tried but quickly realised how much I couldn't stand the guy as a person, phenomenally talented player but an absolute prat off the pitch. I heard him speak at a Rugby dinner all he did was talk himself up and couldn't crack a joke to save his life.

maestegmafia wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I remember Laurence Dallaglio was a pretty big part in the outcome of many of Englands games too?.

You get that impression if you read his autobiography but not if you watch the games.


He was a pretty important impact sub in all the games as I remember. He made a huge difference to England during his twilight games

I am afraid I couldn't read his biography, I tried but quickly realised how much I couldn't stand the guy as a person, phenomenally talented player but an absolute prat off the pitch. I heard him speak at a Rugby dinner all he did was talk himself up and couldn't crack a joke to save his life.

And he (allegedly, according to the News of the World) dealt class A s to teenagers, top bloke

maestegmafia wrote:I remember Laurence Dallaglio was a pretty big part in the outcome of many of Englands games too?

He was shocking. He almost lost us one of the games (I think it was Australia) doing a impression of Borthwick carrying the ball (i.e. backwards). He should never had been picked, it would have been better to take Haskell (who was out playing him at Wasps at the time)

munkian wrote:

And he dealt class A s to teenagers, top bloke

He unequivocally said that he was lying about the class A's whilst trying to impress someone. He played the price of being striped of the England captaincy for it too.

In LD's own words...!

"My comments on the article are as follows:

1. I categorically deny ever having dealt in illegal drugs in any way whatsoever.

2. I categorically deny ever having used illegal drugs, whether on the 1997 tour of South Africa or at any other time during my rugby career.

3. I categorically deny that I have any knowledge of any of my team-mates using illegal drugs during the 1997 Lions tour of South Africa or at any other time.

4. The circumstances in which the supposed admissions were obtained amounted to an elaborate set-up by the writers of the News of the World article (by their own admission) to which I naively fell victim."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/lawrence-dallaglios-statement-1095720.html

munkian wrote:And he (allegedly, according to the News of the World) dealt class A s to teenagers, top bloke

KRD mate,

I think you are wrong to edit that as LD did actually say it, just afterwards LD said that he was lying when he said it. There is no cause for liable.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter


Not really relevant to the sledging, but that England team makes me want to cry. Look at the backrow...(adopting a shrill high pitched voice) LOOK AT IT! .

Minus Worsley and put in Moody and you have the backrow that started the final and that beat France and Australia along the way. Corry and Easter were really good at making yard off of rubbish ball and when combined with the nutty nature of Moody it seemed to work.

We did our best to give the game to Wales, after all we did play Perry, Farrell and Borthwick. All of whom were replaced pretty quickly, apart from Borthwick who was replaced not far into the tournament where the England management realised that they could have the same line out skills but double the work rate by selecting Ben Kay.

I'm sure I'm going over the top, but that backrow seems so so stodgy. It reminds of a bucket of porridge mixed with a small glass of water. They were/ are decent players in their own rights, but they just seem so depressing as a unit. It seems entirely designed to stop other teams playing creatively.

Cumbrian wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

6 Martin Corry
7 Joe Worsley
8 Nick Easter


Not really relevant to the sledging, but that England team makes me want to cry. Look at the backrow...(adopting a shrill high pitched voice) LOOK AT IT! .

Minus Worsley and put in Moody and you have the backrow that started the final and that beat France and Australia along the way. Corry and Easter were really good at making yard off of rubbish ball and when combined with the nutty nature of Moody it seemed to work.

We did our best to give the game to Wales, after all we did play Perry, Farrell and Borthwick. All of whom were replaced pretty quickly, apart from Borthwick who was replaced not far into the tournament where the England management realised that they could have the same line out skills but double the work rate by selecting Ben Kay.

I'm sure I'm going over the top, but that backrow seems so so stodgy. It reminds of a bucket of porridge mixed with a small glass of water. They were/ are decent players in their own rights, but they just seem so depressing as a unit. It seems entirely designed to stop other teams playing creatively.

trust me compared to two out of form players and a second row youth prospect englands line up looks and was pretty handy

6 Alun-Wyn Jones
7 Colin Charvis
8 Michael Owen