Matchplay ploy ?

First topic message reminder :

Just played a tie this weekend. The chap I was playing against uttered barely a word to me all the way round. I have never played a game of golf where this has happened and suspect this must have been a deliberate approach on his part.

Found the whole thing quite odd and not a particularly enjoyable experience. I aways regard social interaction [even if it a tie] to be important.

Has anyone experienced this before [it may be more common that I am aware as I have not played a lot of competitve matchplay golf] - indeed does anyone employ this approach themselves ?

There's certainly a lot more than Vet science or Medicine that give a good grounding for jobs.
Accountancy, Quantity Surveying, Civil, Chemical, Mechanical, Electonic Engineering, Petroleum Geoscience, Geology, Dentistry, Computer Science, Law, etc etc etc,

of course there are a lot of worthless ones like Art History and Psychology and you'll always learn more on the job than you did at Uni but there are a lot more worthy courses on offer than you make out.

Pedro('')

Well not sure where I said that those sympathising with the views of the daily mail were not university educated? As far as I can see some very bright people hold some very odd views, just look at our esteemed leaders comments today.

What I am happy to be quoted on is that golf clubs seem to have a disproportionate number of people who subscribe to the political ideals supported by the tabloid press. This includes the apparent acceptability of casual racism and sexism.

As to the argument that degrees are not useful I am hard pressed to see how education could be a bad thing. At the very worst it postpones someone's entrance to full time work.

My comment was that it seems a waste of time to spend 4 to 6 years studying a subject and then not use that learning in the workplace.
eg Brilliant physics degree who now works as a Tesco manager.
A year running a market stall may have been better training.

The educationalists will tell you that the disipline of gaining a degree is good practice for the workplace, I'm not so sure about that one. If you replace the word educationalists with employees in the last sentence you may get my jist.

Ah, the subtle art of gamesmanship. Doesn't Gary Wolstenholme have a degree in this subject?

Well Gael it did work very well to put the Tiger in his cage at Porthcawl in the Walker Cup

McLaren wrote:What I am happy to be quoted on is that golf clubs seem to have a disproportionate number of people who subscribe to the political ideals supported by the tabloid press. This includes the apparent acceptability of casual racism and sexism.

As to the argument that degrees are not useful I am hard pressed to see how education could be a bad thing. At the very worst it postpones someone's entrance to full time work.

A quick look at newspaper circulation numbers will show you that golf clubs are pretty representative of the UK as a whole. Should not be any great surprise and if you choose not to engage with such people then you must live a relatively lonely life.

Postponing one's entrance to full time work is a pretty bad downside, despite the relative merits of a proportion of further education. I think that you have come under fire for you generally being perceived as someone that thinks that they are better because they have studied to degree level. There are probably around 25 universities in the UK that are actually worth attending and of those around 30% of courses that are worth doing - gaining a degree at a poor university doing a worthless course will show that no matter your education, you are not smart because you have not recognised that this is a waste of life. Throw in the fact that a university course lasts for 6 months per year and generally requires less than 15 hours a week attendance and also that there is nothing special or unique about having a degree and you will see why graduates across the country are currently wondering why their student loans are now going to take the best part of their life to pay off as they cannot get a good job.

As for the points made about acquiring skills for the workplace or in how to learn, I'm afraid that most university degrees give you very little skills that are applicable to anything but passing exams and if you have not acquired the skills to learn something by the age of 18 then maybe further education is not for you anyway. If you want to get into the politics of it, the major increase in people attending university in the late '90's was a convenient way for a certain Mr Blair to reduce the unemployment rate, combined with simply creating jobs with the civil service. The consequence - 1000's of people with pointless degrees that can't get a job and civil service cuts biting every community in the UK. Education has it's limits but intelligence does not - intelligent people understand this.

Further to my comments on graduates.
The council I worked for also had an excellent sports trainee scheme where 16 year olds were given a 3 year 'apprenticeship'. We took on 6 a year so there was usually 18 in the system.
We had two large leisure centres, six dual use/ community school sites, three golf sites and umpteen sports pitches.
There was a six month induction and it was 'interesting' to deal with small 16 year old girls with a desire to become fitness instructors working on a golf course.
To our surprise many of them loved it. 'I can't belive I have just driven a JCB' is a comment that sticks in my mind. They were cutting greens with Toros within the second week, some did not enjoy the outdoor side of sports or the early starts, but it certainly opened a few eyes and thier respect for the greenkeepers was good to see. I was also impressed with the way the greenstaff enjoyed teaching the trainees. We ended up with two young girls working full time on the courses.
The training generally produced well rounded professionals, probably better suited to managment than the graduates.

Doon the Water wrote:Well Gael it did work very well to put the Tiger in his cage at Porthcawl in the Walker Cup

It did indeed Doon. In fact, I wonder if this particular defeat soured his attitude towards future team events?

Doon, that is a great example of how learning in the workplace is a great thing - can you imagine someone that has been sitting in a classroom for 8 hours a week, 6 months a year fitting in so well?!?

I doubt the economy is strong enough for it to happen, but colleges and universities that are solely aimed towards specific industries would be a better way of doing things. If a university specialised in, say, greenkeeping (to keep the example on trend), it could be part funded by the golf industry because they could then dictate how the students are taught and would know that graduates will have the skills that they require for the job. This would then save the industry money because they do not have to mess about with recruitment and they would get people ready made for the job. Obviously quite a small and limiting example but it would work exceptionally well for larger industries and if applied to sport might even help to build a better standard of sport in Britain.

A university degree should be about teaching students to think for themselves and learning the true meaning of 'independence' if away from home for the first time.

Unfortunately, consecutive governments from the l960s on, decided to farf about with new ideas on how to teach children the basic but essential skills of reading, writing and 'rithmetic by kicking into touch the 'learning by rote' method. Some children simply don't have the concentration levels to acquire knowledge and the teaching by rote method is the ONLY way to get this stuff into their heads.

Sharrison, but then what degrees would all the stupid people get?? I don't think it's very inclusive to have a system where only the intelligent can progress in education........

MustPuttBetter wrote:Sharrison, but then what degrees would all the stupid people get?? I don't think it's very inclusive to have a system where only the intelligent can progress in education........

Ha ha! Maybe the stupid people can all be just given certificates and the opportunity of a photo dressed as Harry Potter - they can then show everyone that they are not stupid anymore...

gaelgowfer wrote:A university degree should be about teaching students to think for themselves and learning the true meaning of 'independence' if away from home for the first time.

Unfortunately, consecutive governments from the l960s on, decided to farf about with new ideas on how to teach children the basic but essential skills of reading, writing and 'rithmetic by kicking into touch the 'learning by rote' method. Some children simply don't have the concentration levels to acquire knowledge and the teaching by rote method is the ONLY way to get this stuff into their heads.

Hence why I joined the army when my school mates went off to uni. I learned how to think for myself under pressure. The independance of what being alone in the world is about and what life skills are needed to work with diverse cultures and deal with things most people are not comfortable with, you learn negotiation skills. How to stand on your own 2 feet. Respect, the importance of time keeping and thinking how to resolve an issue that cannot be resolved from reading a text book. My 2 best mates went off to Uni 1 studied architecture and now works as a store manager for a high street chain and is regretting the fact he wasted 6years of his life. Another friend went of to study law and is a car salesman as he couldn't handle the pressure of the courtroom....

Even Mrs Mav who is a chartered accountant, and is my accountant for my business as well as a few other's with high turnover. She never went to Uni, she got a job with a local firm went down the AAT route going through evening school, then progressed on with CEMA and chartered accountancy in her own time on top of working and has built up a fine bank of clients even does some consultancy work for another accountancy firm. Everyone she's come across has told her that they get far better service from those that did it the long way through AAT and so on instead of going to uni and doing what the book says.

Just my examples...

but i can agree that there will be some who did choose the right degree and subsequently have good careers as a result but these will tend to be your Doctors, Vets, Dentists and hopefully Lawyers, rather than someone studying the finer points of medieval english and then flipping burgers in mcdonalds

Re Trainees
I remember one girl had a delayed entry as we had great difficulty obtaining a size two steel capped work boot.('')

Nowhere have I said anything about not talking to people based on education levels or intelligence. I just find that all too often I am forced to feel awkward and unable to join in with discussions in a golf club. The reason for feeling uncomfortable being the all too frequent inappropriate attitudes towards race and sex.

I do not see why I should feel bad about wanting to avoid conversation with people who seem unable to adopt an opinion that has received even a moments thought or logic applied to it.

We need to stop the arguments on here about who has or does not have a degree, as I for one do not see it as a prerequisite for discussing golf. Nor do I think, as I stated before, that having a degree makes anyone more likely to adopt more sensible opinions on groups of society or politics.

I will however make the point that anyone who is thinking of going to uni should give it a go. People should also not listen to the likes of sharrison who think some places of higher education are not worthy. I happened to go to one of his hallowed top 25, probably even top 10, but this means nothing as certain courses do not require your uni to be in the times top 10.

When you look past the silly headlines about David Beckham studies you will find most higher education institutions offer something of great use. Even if it is just classes held a times allowing those not able to do education full time a chance to learn something they are interested in.

I think it says something about someone when they are willing to be taught and put the time into learning something. Even if you perceive the subject of learning not applicable to a specific job surely you can see that the person willing to learn and who knows how to learn is a valuable employee?

McLaren wrote:

We need to stop the arguments on here about who has or does not have a degree, as I for one do not see it as a prerequisite for discussing golf.

WHY?

Regardless of what has opened up this topic of conversation it's one that has had people debating their experiences so see no reason to let it stop.

McLaren wrote:I will however make the point that anyone who is thinking of going to uni should give it a go. People should also not listen to the likes of sharrison who think some places of higher education are not worthy. I happened to go to one of his hallowed top 25, probably even top 10, but this means nothing as certain courses do not require your uni to be in the times top 10.

Anyone thinking of going to uni should give it a go?!? Really? At a cost of £9k a year when 1000's of graduates are currently unemployed I would say that right now anyone thinking of going to uni should really consider if it's the best use of their time. I would also say that the actual university that you go to and the course that you take are even more important than ever with an overly competitive jobs market - you think that employers cannot tell the difference between a degree that is worthwhile and one that is a waste of time.

Prime example of education over intelligence...

Maverick wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:A university degree should be about teaching students to think for themselves and learning the true meaning of 'independence' if away from home for the first time.

Unfortunately, consecutive governments from the l960s on, decided to farf about with new ideas on how to teach children the basic but essential skills of reading, writing and 'rithmetic by kicking into touch the 'learning by rote' method. Some children simply don't have the concentration levels to acquire knowledge and the teaching by rote method is the ONLY way to get this stuff into their heads.

Hence why I joined the army when my school mates went off to uni. I learned how to think for myself under pressure. The independance of what being alone in the world is about and what life skills are needed to work with diverse cultures and deal with things most people are not comfortable with, you learn negotiation skills. How to stand on your own 2 feet. Respect, the importance of time keeping and thinking how to resolve an issue that cannot be resolved from reading a text book. My 2 best mates went off to Uni 1 studied architecture and now works as a store manager for a high street chain and is regretting the fact he wasted 6years of his life. Another friend went of to study law and is a car salesman as he couldn't handle the pressure of the courtroom....

Even Mrs Mav who is a chartered accountant, and is my accountant for my business as well as a few other's with high turnover. She never went to Uni, she got a job with a local firm went down the AAT route going through evening school, then progressed on with CEMA and chartered accountancy in her own time on top of working and has built up a fine bank of clients even does some consultancy work for another accountancy firm. Everyone she's come across has told her that they get far better service from those that did it the long way through AAT and so on instead of going to uni and doing what the book says.

Just my examples...

but i can agree that there will be some who did choose the right degree and subsequently have good careers as a result but these will tend to be your Doctors, Vets, Dentists and hopefully Lawyers, rather than someone studying the finer points of medieval english and then flipping burgers in mcdonalds

To be honest I could quote stacks of examples of people who I went to uni with who have been pretty successful. They didnt always end up doing what they thought they might end up doing (Im a prime example) but most of them have all done pretty well.
I have to say I learned how to tell the time and be respectful long before I went to Uni, I certainly didnt need to join the army to pick up either of those things.
The fact is I cant comment on how the army might improve you as a person, I havent done it nor would I want to in a million years, that doesnt make it a bad thing, just not for me. The same applies for people who haven't been to university, but it was certainly some of the best years of my life.
At the end of the day I know that if my kids have a chance to go and we can help them with the finances I would certainly like them to have the opportunity though I agree fully that a lot of thought should now go into the course involved.

Think that hits the nail on the head diggers. Thought into what course you are going to study and what does it help achieve you at the end. So many times we hear about course's people do that will a)have no vocational benefit at the end of it or B) have to wonder how on earth there's a course for it in the first place.

The bit I don't get is how you do get certain going to UNI for the sake of it and study something that really would be of no use in life whatsoever. I think part of criteria for entry should be to validate what they wish to do as a career at the end of it. Using golf as an example an agriculture/horticulture would be of benefit to a greenskeeper. Even Business management would help someone run a golf club. Yet Mrs Mav's younger sister who's at Uni is studying art history and wants to be a social worker makes no sense to me whatsoever and theres many examples of those types of uni students

Since when was university there to train people for the work place? I thought it was there to educate people in their chosen subject?

If it has the side effect of creating people better suited for work, then great. People are confusing academia for something it is not.

I am also confused how people who have never studied a subject can write it off as pointless or not worthy. Without having studied it how can you know what details and concepts you might have to grasp. There is no reason to think one subject will stretch the mind more than another unless you have studied both. Even then that is only you perception based on your own mind and intelligence.

McLaren wrote:Since when was university there to train people for the work place? I thought it was there to educate people in their chosen subject?

Given that my taxes contribute to the budget for education I would hope that the end aim of an education would be to get a job and thus pay tax yourself to provide the opportunity of a good education for the next generation. There is a limited amount of room in the world for those "eggheads" that know everything and put back nothing. Another idea lost on the educated - social responsibility...

McLaren wrote:Since when was university there to train people for the work place? I thought it was there to educate people in their chosen subject?

If it has the side effect of creating people better suited for work, then great. People are confusing academia for something it is not.

I am also confused how people who have never studied a subject can write it off as pointless or not worthy. Without having studied it how can you know what details and concepts you might have to grasp. There is no reason to think one subject will stretch the mind more than another unless you have studied both. Even then that is only you perception based on your own mind and intelligence.

So higher education should be to indulge the minds of those who decide learning something highly irrelevant rather teach them something valid to help them earn in future and contribute like the rest of us.

Creating better people is a hopeful side effect. If thats only a hopeful side effect then I can only hope it acutally happens instead of breeding a bunch of over qualified debt riddled bunch of graduates.

As fo the pointless and not worthy do tell how the use of a degree in medieval english could be half as usual as say a law degree or a medical degree.

McLaren wrote:We need to stop the arguments on here about who has or does not have a degree, as I for one do not see it as a prerequisite for discussing golf.

I agree with Mav that it has produced an interesting debate (and best of all without anyone getting too personal!) - Mac does have a point though that the initial topic has drifted a huge amount

Perhaps we should split off the "education" posts into a separate thread and leave this thread for Matchplay ploys?

Think thats a good idea.

Sometimes a post peters out and if it then drifts off into another, midly golf related, topic is there a problem with that?

Kwini has regularly stated his view that policing the article should in the first instance be up to it's creator and i think that's fair.
Goodwalk doesn't seem too perturbed by the schism.

I think these things can be meddled with too much at the mo. Just my humble opinion

Maverick wrote:rather than someone studying the finer points of medieval english and then flipping burgers in mcdonalds

mav - apologies for being so flippant, but what about your mates from the army. have all of them gone on to be sucessful business men like yourself, or have some of them fallen into the burger flipping scenario? if so, one could also be slightly disappointed that the taxes spent employing them through their 'army education' have been so disappointingly resolved.

I'm with you MPB. Doesn't really feel like the original thread topic has any more juice in it and a new topic might fizzle out this side debate...

ban_bam wrote:

Maverick wrote:rather than someone studying the finer points of medieval english and then flipping burgers in mcdonalds

mav - apologies for being so flippant, but what about your mates from the army. have all of them gone on to be sucessful business men like yourself, or have some of them fallen into the burger flipping scenario? if so, one could also be slightly disappointed that the taxes spent employing them through their 'army education' have been so disappointingly resolved.

No offence ban bam, but you're talking about two completely situations.
Students (and i was a Uni student) offer the country nothing whilst in education, even if studying something worthwhile.
Whereas the country has quite obviously got more than it's money's worth out of the taxes put into paying our armed services by the time they come out

MustPuttBetter wrote:Sometimes a post peters out and if it then drifts off into another, midly golf related, topic is there a problem with that?

Kwini has regularly stated his view that policing the article should in the first instance be up to it's creator and i think that's fair.
Goodwalk doesn't seem too perturbed by the schism.

I think these things can be meddled with too much at the mo. Just my humble opinion

MPB - drifting into another, mildy golf related topic isn't so problematic. Thread drift is inevitable. This thread however has drifted into an area that seems to have NOTHING to do with golf. Anyway, the suggestion to split it was just that - a suggestion. One which I think has merits but which hasn't been acted on yet (partly because I haven't time at the moment to split it - Mav, if we DO decide to split it, could you take a quick look to see if the off-topic parts are easily splittable?)

Kwini has a fair point - unfortunately, this ain't the Beeb and that feature isn't available to us. The forum software does not allow the OP to have control of policing the thread. Period.

Sorry you think things are meddled with too much. I haven't seen Mav or NBS do any sort of meddling and I can tell you that my particpation in moderation matters recently has been confined to sticking and unsticking the fantasy threads and Kwini's articles. Sorry if you think that's meddling

ban_bam wrote:

Maverick wrote:rather than someone studying the finer points of medieval english and then flipping burgers in mcdonalds

mav - apologies for being so flippant, but what about your mates from the army. have all of them gone on to be sucessful business men like yourself, or have some of them fallen into the burger flipping scenario? if so, one could also be slightly disappointed that the taxes spent employing them through their 'army education' have been so disappointingly resolved.

Of the 32 guys I went through training with, 21 are still serving soldiers. 9 Unfortunately are no longer with us and the 1 is me and run my own business the other guy works for me in a training capacity.

As for others I served with well I cannot comment on all of them but to quote you, could also be slightly disappointed that the taxes spent employing them through their 'army education' have been so disappointingly resolved... Whether they be flipping burgers now or emptying bins they still served as soldiers in conflict so the Uni bunch didn't have to and could enjoy education as the tax payers expense, whilst they thenselves risked life and limb for the liberty of other nations.... Think theres a difference between whats valid there don't you...

Back to the matchplay I found we were 'at it'last night in a mild way.
Had the honour most of the time so first off and walking in front all night.Couple of times after we were both safely in the fairway I mentioned the trouble on the left or the trees on the right or the water in front.But we felt on top right from the off and just stayed there.No offence to the opposition

Davie wrote:

MustPuttBetter wrote:Sometimes a post peters out and if it then drifts off into another, midly golf related, topic is there a problem with that?

Kwini has regularly stated his view that policing the article should in the first instance be up to it's creator and i think that's fair.
Goodwalk doesn't seem too perturbed by the schism.

I think these things can be meddled with too much at the mo. Just my humble opinion

MPB - drifting into another, mildy golf related topic isn't so problematic. Thread drift is inevitable. This thread however has drifted into an area that seems to have NOTHING to do with golf. Anyway, the suggestion to split it was just that - a suggestion. One which I think has merits but which hasn't been acted on yet (partly because I haven't time at the moment to split it - Mav, if we DO decide to split it, could you take a quick look to see if the off-topic parts are easily splittable?)

Kwini has a fair point - unfortunately, this ain't the Beeb and that feature isn't available to us. The forum software does not allow the OP to have control of policing the thread. Period.

Sorry you think things are meddled with too much. I haven't seen Mav or NBS do any sort of meddling and I can tell you that my particpation in moderation matters recently has been confined to sticking and unsticking the fantasy threads and Kwini's articles. Sorry if you think that's meddling

You guys do a great job trying to please difficult people. I don't think that MPB was trying to be overly critical and his suggestion of keeping this thread as is, despite the off topic discussion, was a suggestion that was meant to assist you with your job rather than criticise the way that you do it. His suggestion was merely the bouncing of an idea off of your suggestion and I'm sure that he means no harm...

Sharrison - if that is the case then I offer MPB an apology. It was the "meddling" bit that made me feel it necessary to reply as I did

Davie wrote:MPB - drifting into another, mildy golf related topic isn't so problematic. Thread drift is inevitable. This thread however has drifted into an area that seems to have NOTHING to do with golf. Anyway, the suggestion to split it was just that - a suggestion. One which I think has merits but which hasn't been acted on yet (partly because I haven't time at the moment to split it - Mav, if we DO decide to split it, could you take a quick look to see if the off-topic parts are easily splittable?)

Kwini has a fair point - unfortunately, this ain't the Beeb and that feature isn't available to us. The forum software does not allow the OP to have control of policing the thread. Period.

Sorry you think things are meddled with too much. I haven't seen Mav or NBS do any sort of meddling and I can tell you that my particpation in moderation matters recently has been confined to sticking and unsticking the fantasy threads and Kwini's articles. Sorry if you think that's meddling

Davie, i didn't hear any suggestion that the thread was off golf topic, just that it had drifted from the original topic. Presumably if you split it you'd have to put it in the 'general debate' section, which IMO will end what has been a fairly interesting discussion.

I've no probs with the suggestion but you surely don't have a problem with someone responding to the suggestion with their view??

In my view there has recently been far too much deleting, splitting, locking of posts. Others may disagree and if i'm in the minority then so be it.

And i understand that this isn't the Beeb and the same facilities aren't available to the posters. That doesn't mean to some extend the OP can't put his hand up if he's not happy with the way his article is going. Period

I did not mean we should stop the discussion because it was OT but becuase it seems we are going down the road of judging posts based on whether or not the poster has a degree. Whether that is viewed as positive or negative.


I would much rather a young person was encouraged to go to study Beckham studies rather than join the army. May as well take 3 of every ten who sign up out back and shoot them, take another three to a mental hospital, 2 to the door of a nightclub, one to flip burgers and the other to some non descript desk job.

Davie wrote:Sharrison - if that is the case then I offer MPB an apology. It was the "meddling" bit that made me feel it necessary to reply as I did

Just my opinion as I can't speak for him. There's very little meddling on here, especially considering how threads can get out of hand so I wouldn't worry too much. As always, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't...

sharrison01 wrote:You guys do a great job trying to please difficult people. I don't think that MPB was trying to be overly critical and his suggestion of keeping this thread as is, despite the off topic discussion, was a suggestion that was meant to assist you with your job rather than criticise the way that you do it. His suggestion was merely the bouncing of an idea off of your suggestion and I'm sure that he means no harm...

Thanks Sharrison, I certainly did not mean any harm

And no apology needed Davie

McLaren wrote:I did not mean we should stop the discussion because it was OT but becuase it seems we are going down the road of judging posts based on whether or not the poster has a degree. Whether that is viewed as positive or negative.


I would much rather a young person was encouraged to go to study Beckham studies rather than join the army. May as well take 3 of every ten who sign up out back and shoot them, take another three to a mental hospital, 2 to the door of a nightclub, one to flip burgers and the other to some non descript desk job.

All with the result of letting you "choose" to study what you like where you like with little consideration or care for what you will actually get out of it or give back from it. Maybe those choosing a waste of time degree at a poor university should be forced into the army as it will give them enough intelligence to not make such a stupid decision again and by the sounds of it is the only way that they will actually add value to society...

McLaren wrote:I would much rather a young person was encouraged to go to study Beckham studies rather than join the army. May as well take 3 of every ten who sign up out back and shoot them, take another three to a mental hospital, 2 to the door of a nightclub, one to flip burgers and the other to some non descript desk job.

Mac, what a ridiculous thing to say
My dad, my wife's dad and an uncle all were in the army for a good number of years and have all come out to be successful in their varying fields.
Including friends, i know probably 10 people who have been in the army or navy and only one of them has struggled since coming out. That's a much smaller percentage than for my Uni friends.......

Ok, I will redress the balance, one less of them can be a bouncer. He is now a small time drug dealer.

McLaren wrote:I did not mean we should stop the discussion because it was OT but becuase it seems we are going down the road of judging posts based on whether or not the poster has a degree. Whether that is viewed as positive or negative.


I would much rather a young person was encouraged to go to study Beckham studies rather than join the army. May as well take 3 of every ten who sign up out back and shoot them, take another three to a mental hospital, 2 to the door of a nightclub, one to flip burgers and the other to some non descript desk job.

Mac what a sheltered life you must lead if you view studying beckham to be far more beneficial than the life of a soldier.

By your math you say basically not a single serving soldier can achieve anything in life apart from dying, being a nut job, a mindless bouncer, or a burger flipping pen pusher... What does this make me then the exception to the rule.... No it doesn't I can categorically say your view is more than a little flawed. The soldeirs can learn a trade in the army this could be anything for a standard dirver through to Electrician, they could learn to be a Surveyor or an Avionics engineer. The list of actual vocational trades that soldiers can learn is far greater than those that Uni students can learn. Don't believe me then take yourself down to your local careers office and see for yourself. There will be some that don't make it back and they deserve respect for the valour not a flippant remarks from someone trying to say learning about an over paid footballer is more benficial. Likewise some may suffer from Post traumatic stree but again look at what some may have seen. But despite this the larger percentage will come out with good vocational skills and qualifications and will go on to have good careers.

Maybe take your guarduanister blinkers off and you may see what the real world has to offer

McLaren wrote:Ok, I will redress the balance, one less of them can be a bouncer. He is now a small time drug dealer.

The response of an educated person. What a chimp...

McLaren wrote:Ok, I will redress the balance, one less of them can be a bouncer. He is now a small time drug dealer.

Typical statement from someone without a clue.

Far more drug dealing uni students than you will ever find from former soldiers What a fool you are making of yourself...

Your comments on what has been an interesting thread are making yourself and the educated you seem to want to enthrust on this seem little more than spoilt little kids

McLaren wrote:Ok, I will redress the balance, one less of them can be a bouncer. He is now a small time drug dealer.

Say no more
When you said on the thread re Steve Williams that the golf course can be a lonely place, i'm starting to suspect you were probably speaking from experience.....

Maverick wrote:

McLaren wrote:I did not mean we should stop the discussion because it was OT but becuase it seems we are going down the road of judging posts based on whether or not the poster has a degree. Whether that is viewed as positive or negative.


I would much rather a young person was encouraged to go to study Beckham studies rather than join the army. May as well take 3 of every ten who sign up out back and shoot them, take another three to a mental hospital, 2 to the door of a nightclub, one to flip burgers and the other to some non descript desk job.

Mac what a sheltered life you must lead if you view studying beckham to be far more beneficial than the life of a soldier.

By your math you say basically not a single serving soldier can achieve anything in life apart from dying, being a nut job, a mindless bouncer, or a burger flipping pen pusher... What does this make me then the exception to the rule.... No it doesn't I can categorically say your view is more than a little flawed. The soldeirs can learn a trade in the army this could be anything for a standard dirver through to Electrician, they could learn to be a Surveyor or an Avionics engineer. The list of actual vocational trades that soldiers can learn is far greater than those that Uni students can learn. Don't believe me then take yourself down to your local careers office and see for yourself. There will be some that don't make it back and they deserve respect for the valour not a flippant remarks from someone trying to say learning about an over paid footballer is more benficial. Likewise some may suffer from Post traumatic stree but again look at what some may have seen. But despite this the larger percentage will come out with good vocational skills and qualifications and will go on to have good careers.

Maybe take your guarduanister blinkers off and you may see what the real world has to offer

I think that living a sheltered life is a firmly established fact given that he doesn't wish to socialise with anyone reading a tabloid and enjoys playing golf without uttering a word to his playing partners. I always thought that the average student lived a very small minded existence but this guy takes it to another level. I love the fact that he will struggle to achieve in his desired field because of his ignorant and arrogant attitude towards people from other walks of life...

Actually Mac, you didn't say that. I remembered incorrectly.
But still, you must be able to corroborate......

MustPuttBetter wrote:Davie, i didn't hear any suggestion that the thread was off golf topic, just that it had drifted from the original topic. Presumably if you split it you'd have to put it in the 'general debate' section, which IMO will end what has been a fairly interesting discussion.

I've no probs with the suggestion but you surely don't have a problem with someone responding to the suggestion with their view??

If I was to split it I wouldn't put it into the off-topic section as the thread has grown from a thread about golf, and debated amongst golfers. It wouldn't make sense in any other forum but here. Some feel that off topic posts have no place within the individual sports sections but I don't subscibe to that idea. We already have D4S's off topic thread and other sports have their own off topic threads, depending on the individual sports' moderators. I certainly wouldn't move any new "split" thread anywhere else but here. I certainly have no problem with you giving your view on a suggestion but I think your response was based on an assumption of yours that was false.

MustPuttBetter wrote:In my view there has recently been far too much deleting, splitting, locking of posts. Others may disagree and if i'm in the minority then so be it.

Are you talking about the forum as a whole? Or the golf section? As I stated earlier, we have very rarely had to split lock or delete posts here in golf (the only recent exception I can think of here is duplicate subjects). Remember we had plenty of people asking for the removal or locking of article by people like Keizo (which we didn't do). As Sharrison says, "damned if we do, damned if we don't"

MustPuttBetter wrote:And i understand that this isn't the Beeb and the same facilities aren't available to the posters. That doesn't mean to some extend the OP can't put his hand up if he's not happy with the way his article is going. Period

The OP can always contact ANY of the admin or moderation team.

Let's leave it at that before we take the off topicness even further off topic!

Fair enough Davie

It may be that by coincidence i've come across a lot of moderation recently. Or maybe it's just me! (that would be the logical conclusion )

Anyway, you're certianly not damned. I think the mods do a good job and i have said as much on more than one occasion

I have no issue with anyone who joins the army and think the way the people who join get treated is a joke, especially those who do encounter difficulties of some sort. I am however completely against the way our armed forces are used and the wars they have entered.

I also believe society could find a much better use for young men other than sending them to get maimed. If someone see’s no better option than to put themselves in great danger for an unwinnable cause for people who are not grateful then society as failed those people.