Could/should the Wales v England game be abandoned?

Considering the strain that the law enforcement and emergency agencies are under in a seemingly viral and unprecedented series of civil insurrections, if the rioting and looting doesn't stop by Wednesday, should the MS game go on on Saturday?

In the big scheme of things sporting occasions come well down the list of priorities. And all the boys in blue will be on stand-by presumably nationally. And policing any sporting event seems a bit of a questionable luxury.

If it was in Twickenham then yes. In Cardiff I say no.

I would say that the game should go ahead, but South Wales Police have already sent men down to London so it depends how the situation develops. You're right that sport has to play second fiddle at times like this.

It should be possible to bring in bobbies from the other welsh forces. Let's face it we don't have a major problem with Wales v England games so unless things get much worse we should be ok.

Play it by ear.

red_stag wrote:If it was in Twickenham then yes. In Cardiff I say no.

SW police resources may be called into England. So long as the disturbances don't spread across the Severn.

Portnoy wrote:

red_stag wrote:If it was in Twickenham then yes. In Cardiff I say no.

SW police resources may be called into England. So long as the disturbances don't spread across the Severn.

Oh really. In that case maybe yes.

It would be foolish for too many SW police resources to be called into England, leaving themselves exposed. Second a few up to London (and perhaps Bristol) but they need to maintain a presence in their own patch in case things spread.

Davie wrote:It would be foolish for too many SW police resources to be called into England, leaving themselves exposed. Second a few up to London (and perhaps Bristol) but they need to maintain a presence in their own patch in case things spread.

Exactly. But remember that rest and recuperation will be required. The butter will already be scraped too thinly.

I see the England football game at Wembley tomorrow night has just been cancelled

It should go ahead should it not?
If it was in London immediatly would be called off but I that is a bit much unless it develops further

To be fair haven't some countries refused to play Ireland in Dublin due to rioting in Belfast in the past?

Really?!?! Didn't know that!?!?!

Davie wrote:I see the England football game at Wembley tomorrow night has just been cancelled

small mercy's and all that....

red_stag wrote:To be fair haven't some countries refused to play Ireland in Dublin due to rioting in Belfast in the past?

Yes. 1973. But at least England always turn up....

Just play the game behind closed doors just for TV rather than cancelling the match. Both teams need the game and also the fans will be able to see the game without needing a police presence.

Don't be ridiculous. It should absolutely go ahead. All the rioters want to do is disrupt and destroy. There won't be trouble at a rugby match and there are plenty of police available to deal with any trouble. So far 30 SW police have been called in to London to assist and last night was most likely the peak of the trouble.

This is completely terrible. For what?

I would fully understand if the Rugby was cancelled for the weekend. Restoring and guaranteeing order, protection of property and ensuring safety is obviously paramount.

But there is a part of me which says not to let these people get the upper hand and ruin even more things we enjoy. Not to 'give in' to these people under almost any circumstance.

So I am probably not the best person to decide. I wish I was home.

So far 30 SW police have been called in to London to assist and last night was most likely the peak of the trouble.

I hope you're right - but not so sure...

mckay1402 wrote:Don't be ridiculous. It should absolutely go ahead. All the rioters want to do is disrupt and destroy. There won't be trouble at a rugby match and there are plenty of police available to deal with any trouble. So far 30 SW police have been called in to London to assist and last night was most likely the peak of the trouble.

Who's going to police the London end? Plus the traffic, external crowd control etc. I know that the problem is not inside the ground etc.

But as I said in my OP "if the rioting and looting doesn't stop by Wednesday, should the MS game go on on Saturday?".
Is it going to get viral? Cardiff is not a lot different from Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham and Nottingham.

No it shouldn't be cancelled, at the moment. I appreciate that the roits have spread, but they have not spread into wales yet. Also roiting/crowd control at rugby is not as much of an issue as with football, so if the real police were to have to be moved from SW to England (which would be a joke) then surely the Comunity Support Officers and Specially Bobbies would be capable of guiding the drunks through the streets post match.

To be fair, I live smack bang in the city centre in Cardiff and on rugby days, there is minimal police presence, I see at most perhaps 10 police officers (and that really is at most) where most of the time they are on their horses and posing for pictures with rugby fans.

If Cardiff stays as it is with no rioting and everything seeming okay, I don't see why the match should be called off even if some SW police have been sent up to London. Cardiff should be fine to cope with a rugby match.

I guess it depends if Gavin Henson is taking the train or Mike Phillips decides to go for a McDonald's afterwards.

Keep Andy Powell out of the pubs too.

Just because some selfish scum decide to riot doesn't mean it should effect the rugby match on the weekend. The rioting scum are in England not Wales yet anyway. If the riots spread to Wales then yes it should be cancelled but not before.

I've thought long and hard about this one and my response is - Only if Wales are losing at half-time

An honest and well thought out response RubyGuby.

rubyguby but that would prevent yet another famous Welsh win. Wales only play rugby for 50 minutes at most anyway!

See this is what happens with lax moderation and people being able to express their disgust at Englands selection policies and black kit in any way they choose rather than sensible calm debate.

Peter Seabiscuit wheeler I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or genuine.

England's selection policy is poor. The black kit is rubbish and just yet another marketing failure by Nike.
Happy?

um aren't we playing in black on Saturday?

Oh dear...

The kit doesn't matter. At least on this thread. This is about the most significant disturbances to hit the country in a long, long time.

I am sure Peter Seabiscuit was joking. Let's leave it.

To be honest I expect the game to go ahead. I certainly hope it does as I have tickets and a train journey from Glasgow booked!

If the rioting spreads to Cardiff then the game will be quite rightly cancelled. I rather hope it doesn't spread, looks pretty awful on the telly, I hope no one on here is caught up in it.

doctor_grey wrote:The kit doesn't matter. At least on this thread. This is about the most significant disturbances to hit the country in a long, long time.

I am sure Peter Seabiscuit was joking. Let's leave it.

Thanks Dr G.,

I was going to say something like that.

16000 police are going to be drafted into London tonight as opposed 6000 last night.
Birmingham had only 400 last night: how many tonight - and the rest of the metropolitan areas will have to beef up.

Personally I would instruct all the mobile networks to disable mobile social networks if that's possible. Otherwise all ISPs to disable all social networks...

I can't see it spreading to Cardiff. I think Cardiff people like their City too much.

(Sarcastic Mode - ON)

In a way, it's just as well that its in the SE that this is all kicking off - just think of all the Media rail/air fares that are being saved if the trouble was oop North or Way Out West!

All though I'm sure some intrepid reporters can 'investigate' from a Fleet Street Desk.

Portnoy

Yes but then you'd have people screaming about freedom of speach. Idiots

Portnoy wrote:
Personally I would instruct all the mobile networks to disable mobile social networks if that's possible. Otherwise all ISPs to disable all social networks...

And what about businesses who use these? The people who use these to communicate daily.

Banning the internet because people could communicate political messages on it would be extreme.

No it should as one the rioting is mainly in London, and the spread of it to other English cities is small riots (except B/ham) at the moment, so even without the police SW have sent to London, they should be able to cope with a rugby game. This def could spread and escalate, but I imagine if it does and if it get's worse by Sat then the army/national guard will have been pulled in, also the Assembly/WRU/Police can reassess at that time.

Also I get the feeling most of the feeling/rioting is in areas with big inner city coucil estate, something Wales doesn't have (I know we have Eli, Town Hill, Grangetown, Bonnehmaen (sp) and a few Newport ones) but these pale in comparison to the English areas, and the feeling seems to be directed to the Tories cuts, so I imagine it would stay in England myself.

mckay1402 wrote:I can't see it spreading to Cardiff. I think Cardiff people like their City too much.

A city of over 250,000 can't find 1000 nutters? Dream on...

red_stag wrote:

Portnoy wrote:
Personally I would instruct all the mobile networks to disable mobile social networks if that's possible. Otherwise all ISPs to disable all social networks...

And what about businesses who use these? The people who use these to communicate daily.

Banning the internet because people could communicate political messages on it would be extreme.

+1

Cutting off social networking would mean more people would probably join in as a 'retaliation' to that measure.

Is there a curfew or anything being talked about?

Is it just me or did the riot kinda come outta nowhere?

Get some of the Northern Ireland Police Force over to England. It would be a piece of cake for them.

I think most of the rioting isn't for any real reason. It's just people going nuts because they can and because they like to. It started with reasons behind it perhaps, but I doubt many on the street rioting now could give a good reason as to why they are doing it.

Cutting off social networks wouldn't work in the slightest. It would urine people off and that's about it - I'm sure people managed to riot before Facebook...

A better idea would be to use the social networks and monitor them to try and find out where the trouble may occur no?

Pete

Dianne Abbott has been calling for one. I guess that would mean anyone out after a certain time is guilty. could work.

It did seem to come out of nowhere and it's all very well for people to say the police have been ineffectual but how could they possibly have dealt with it?

A curfew could work and if people are coming or going from/to work they would be excussed, other than that, close cinemas, theaters, clubs, pubs for a night and the trouble makers will be quite expossed.

screamingaddabs wrote:I think most of the rioting isn't for any real reason. It's just people going nuts because they can and because they like to. It started with reasons behind it perhaps, but I doubt many on the street rioting now could give a good reason as to why they are doing it.

Sadly, mate, I think you are right. This is mob mentality.

There are always people who will enjoy the destruction of property and other people's businesses and livelihoods. No reasons to start debate on the social, economic, and personal reasons for it. The problem in a civil society is we are always at risk from this. The simple facts are that open societies are always based upon respect for all the things we see missing here. Shame.

But, should we cancel the Rugby? I hope not.

Just wondering if anyone thinks the game could be affected. It looks like the football games have been cancelled.

Already a thread about this.

Hi Dre, just going to merge this with another thread discussing it in the international section

I shouldn't think it will be cancelled though, no riots or any trouble so far in Cardiff.

There's a certain irony in the way our leaders espoused the tremendous virtue of so-called "social networking technology" in it's role in the popular uprisings in the middle east, and are now condemning the evil influence of so-called "social networking technology" in it's role in allowing "lawless thugs" to out manoeuvre police in this country.

I'm just as disgusted at the antics of the idiot youth, but even a moron could have seen that one coming. It's a bit sad that our so-called intelligence service isn't able to operate a twitter account or infiltrate and aggregate BBM messages in a way that allows the met to use the service against the perpetrators. Or perhaps they can, which may explain the publicity. But as they say, never ascribe to conspiracy what you can explain with stupidity.

In explaining how it is that a bunch of council estate kids can in some deluded way identify with their counterpart's uprising in search of basic human rights I blame our short sighted politicians who are regularly on TV stoking the fires and using just such imagery to score cheap political points off each other.