Moody Relief

Relief for Scottish and Argentinian fans as Lewis Moody's injury is not as bad as expected and may not rule him out of world cup contention.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/default.stm

TheGreyGhost is available for bookings and will be appearing at Skegness Hippodrome every second Thurdsday of the month through August.

So in today's news it's all turned around:

A boost for England ahead of there clash with Argentina as Moody has not recovered sufficiently to play.

Moody shouldn't even be out there; he's had less than an hour's test match game time this year and generally isn't playing well.

Croft
Wood
Haskell
please.....

Aside from his leadership ( which yes we could do with), he offers nothing that other younger players give.

A great servant to English rugby...but give the younger on form players a chance.

No relief for us Scots at all - I'd much rather face an injury-prone, lacking-game-time Lewis Moody than the Haskell/Woods combination that looks likely instead

"Moody Relief", sounds like one of those 'Art' films you get on t'interweb.

Moody Relief? Moody is useless. A backrow of Croft, Haskell and Easter is a much more frightening prospect than one with Moody involved, he offers absolutely nothing in attack and in defence is often out of position and can still give away needless penalties.

A back row of

6. T.Croft
7. C.Robshaw
8. J.Haskell

19. T.Wood

would have been fantastic and been up there with one of the best back rows in the world. Shame.

Aslongas:

You have take Grey Ghost too literally. He was being sarcastic, suggesting that it is a relief for you guys that you may get to play Moody rather than an alternative, but superior back row.

Agree with others - Moody should not be out there.

Yeah, see seabiscuit, I was making a good point after all!

Moody is one of those guys with a great pedigree, who clearly has leadership talents but probably who's best days are behind him. I'm not an aficionado of contemporary English back rowers, but from my remote perspective I see him in the same light as Mils: a little lucky to be there with better youngsters coming through. Odd choice for captain I would've thought.

Another Robshaw hack...

I think it was a mistake to take Shaw over Fourie for this very reason. We've got 4 fit backrowers for the first two games, which isn't enough in my opinion. If Moody isn't ready to start the Romania game (which I think is the third game) then I'd send him home and bring Fourie in. He'll need a full 80 before going into the Scotland match and then the knock-out stages. But if we get him fit then he should start in my opinion. No player would enjoy playing against him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14784677.stm

Out for first match against Argentina

At least you won't be going into the pool with a lock playing flanker, the franchise season's best 7 not even in the squad and with the coaching staff praying that the guys they selected will be fit in time for the 'later stages of the tournament'.

Should be ok though, we don't have a reputation for taking the opposition lightly at world cups and accidentally getting knocked out before the master plan has a chance to unfold.

Moody doesn't operate like your typical 7, he's not much of a fetcher and tends to get buried at the breakdown with no chance of getting any ball but plenty of chance to give away penalties. He doesn't appear to know which ones to go into and which ones to leave alone.

He does tend to get right in the faces of the half-backs though and is often good value for a chargedown.

He reminds me of a boisterous badly-trained Labrador.

Against the Pumas and Scotland the breakdowns will be key areas, both teams are sure to target England ball there.

The problem I see is that even if Wood has a stormer Moody will walk back into the team when/if he's fit because he's the captain.

I think it was a gamble to take him and so far the gamble has failed, experience is one thing but how much use is that when he's sat in the stands?

I think Moody still has a lot to offer the England squad, that no other player does- he's a master at creating confusion within the opposition, and really applying pressure to their fly-halves and scrum halves. His leadership also, is second to none, and I think he does a great job of lifting the players around him to his level of intensity and aggression. However, that being said, I don't think he is up to the standard of the international game any more, especially during a world cup. Even though his leadership will be missed, I think a backrow of Croft, Wood and Haskell will fair so much better, and provides great dynamism. Croft and Wood both excel in the lineout, as well as Lawes and Palmer. That gives us potentially 4 effective lineout jumpers, and is a real threat. Not to mention, I think Haskell has raised his game considerably, and really showed that during the 6 nations and World cup warm ups. Love him or hate him, I think Haskell's shaping up to be a very, very good player.

Haskell is hit or miss, lacks consistency and goes missing in games. He's the english version of Popham all bust a gut bursts or, "is he playing" - If he can find consistency then fine, otherwise he can also be a liability.

Haskell is looking very very very good. And although he gave I think the Irish halfbacks a torrid time there is no one better at hassaling half backs than Moody.
If we end up playing Australia or France, Then putting pressure on their scrumhalfs will be key.

He's been playing CONSISTENTLY well since the six nations. So 9 consistent games.

I don't see what's wrong with someone being a "Robshaw hack", although having him in your username does give it the impression of being something of an obsession. He's a really fantastic player an leader. Looked a bit like he needed the game against Irish at the weekend though. Not as dynamic as usual. When on form I'd be very happy to see him at openside though, especially if Haskell is starting to look impressive at 8.

Haskell is fantastic when running into space. He doesn't make the yards after the initial hit that a Heaslip or even Easter would though. I think that's where Robshaw comes in.

BUt Moodys headless charging is double edged....for half the time he goes flying in and one quick side step by the fly half and he ends up looking like a clown whilst we are now a player short in defence as moody is face down in the pitch!

Ill have Croft, Robshaw and Wood ahead anyday.

And Haskell has been very good...seems to be using his head a bit.

I think he has been better than an English version of Popham.

When all is said and done Moods is a shadow of Backy.

Good player. Goodish leader. Essential for England.

But not quite as good as the original.

Problem is that goes for pretty much the entire squad compared with their 2003 forebears.

I agree that Haskell is better than Popham! Offers quite a substantial amount more around the park than Popham did.
Agree with GeordieFalcon also, Moody does miss quite a few tackles when he rushes up, and if you're going to do that rush defence, you HAVE to make the tackle, otherwise you leave the remaining guys to clean it up. It's something that's been catching my eye more and more recently, I think in the Wales warm up in Millennium (his first game back for a while), the first minute of the game he charged up and missed the tackle straight away.

bluestonevedder wrote:I agree that Haskell is better than Popham! Offers quite a substantial amount more around the park than Popham did.
Agree with GeordieFalcon also, Moody does miss quite a few tackles when he rushes up, and if you're going to do that rush defence, you HAVE to make the tackle, otherwise you leave the remaining guys to clean it up. It's something that's been catching my eye more and more recently, I think in the Wales warm up in Millennium (his first game back for a while), the first minute of the game he charged up and missed the tackle straight away.

It was at Twickenham, and he actually missed two very early on. Still, we don't know just how important he is behind the scenes.

England have far better Backrow players available than Moody, I echo other posters, better backrow players will be benched for this aged dinosaur.

Moody Relief? Moody is useless.

Moody is anything but useless. The man is a terror to opposition half backs and a general nightmare to the opposition backrow. How do you play against someone who seems to think that personal injury is unimportant and who always come back for more and put his body on the line every time. He may be struggling for fitness and form (I blame Bath ) but even so if he is available he is the second most dynamic backrower England has got and is the most savvy of all of them.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Moody Relief? Moody is useless.

Moody is anything but useless. The man is a terror to opposition half backs and a general nightmare to the opposition backrow. How do you play against someone who seems to think that personal injury is unimportant and who always come back for more and put his body on the line every time. He may be struggling for fitness and form (I blame Bath ) but even so if he is available he is the second most dynamic backrower England has got and is the most savvy of all of them.

The worst decision Cockerill ever made was to let Moods go.
I guess it was the wage cap that dunnit so he had no choice.

formerly known as Sam wrote:How do you play against someone who seems to think that personal injury is unimportant and who always come back for more and put his body on the line every time.

Give him the ball?

The worst decision Cockerill ever made was to let Moods go.
I guess it was the wage cap that dunnit so he had no choice..

According to Cockerill at the time, to match Bath's offer Tigers would have had to move on either Croft or Crane in order to maintain squad balance. Due to Moody's age and injury history the decision was to keep the younger men at the club. Unfortunatley Crane has been blighted by injury since then but at the time he was in better form than Moody.

I was very suprised thar moody was even taken to NZ with his injurie.

Yes when he is on form and fully fit he realy does put his body on the line and the team around him to respond to him.

But in honesty if he does not recover for the next game then he should be ruled out and shipped back to the uk, then the Likes of Robshaw should be given a chance.

England cannot afford to carry injured players no matter how good or experienced that are.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

The worst decision Cockerill ever made was to let Moods go.
I guess it was the wage cap that dunnit so he had no choice..

According to Cockerill at the time, to match Bath's offer Tigers would have had to move on either Croft or Crane in order to maintain squad balance. Due to Moody's age and injury history the decision was to keep the younger men at the club. Unfortunatley Crane has been blighted by injury since then but at the time he was in better form than Moody.

So it was the wage cap that is the problem for the Tigers then (as I suspected).

The £4.2m (or whatever it is now) is aspirational for some clubs, book-breaking for some, affordable for some and restrictive for others.

Cap it on turnover - and watch English rugby grow.

Ok so let's just get this straight Moodys three main strengths are...

1) Pressure on the fly half - which could potentially leading to a charge down, however better fly halves can step him or

2) Leadership (Inspires other players with his commitment)

3) ?

His three main weaknesses

1) In this day and age a back row player needs to have an all round game. Moody is possibly the poorest ball carrying, link-man flanker England have ever had. He makes absolutely no yards in attack.

2) He can get caught out of position due to being stepped or leaving space where he should be defending, which better teams would exploit.

3) Massively injury prone, has no form going into the World Cup and has barely featured for Bath or England this season.

Chris Robshaws main strengths..

1) Tackling - Robshaw is arguably the best tackler in the Premiership, he has consistently been in the top 10 for tackle counts for the last 5 years in the league. Not only does he make tackles, he slows opposition ball down and has the ability to turn ball over through counter rucking.

2) Ball Carrying - This season in particular Robshaw has excelled with his ball carrying. Being the second highest ball carrier in the premiership. Consistently providing a platform and go forward for his team.

3) Link-Man - Robshaw is a fantastic link-man which is a key part of an opensides job. He put in a number of passes and offloads last season, drawing players and putting team-mates into space.

Robshaws weaknesses...

1) A lack of acceleration and dynamism has been mentioned by critics of Robshaw.

2) ?

3) ?

Robshaw is a great Premiership player, but the one big question mark is whether he can cut it at International level. Robshaw has always been there or thereabouts in terms of getting in the wider squad, but only once did Martin Johnson see enough from him in training to merit capping him (and that was when Croft and Worsley were away on a Lions tour).

The fact that Fourie and Wood have both burst onto the scene since Robshaw's cap in 2009 suggests that Martin Johnson doesn't feel Robshaw will be able to make the step up, or that Robshaw is not yet able to make the step up.

I probably would have tried to give Robshaw more of an opportunity up until now, but where we are right now I'd much prefer a fully fit Moody in the World Cup squad than Robshaw.

I've always liked Moody but frankly England would be better without him. He's forever injured and pulling out of games at the last minute. It must really annoy someone like Robshaw to see Moody get this treatment from MJ. It's not like Robshaw isn't a committed player either.

Moody is not going to be fully fit at this World Cup, and against Pocock, McCaw, Brussouw, SOB, Warburton et al he just won't last the pace.

Taking him was a risk that has backfired. They said he'd be fit for the opener and they were wrong.

I think that we have time to play our way into the World Cup though. Moody can bench against Georgia and get 30 minutes, then start against Romania and play 60 minutes or so, and then we can pick whoever against Scotland (if Moody is showing some form then probably him, if Wood or Haskell does well in Moody's absence then they could jump the queue). The way our games pan out allows us to do that. I wouldn't be too happy playing Moody against a top 10 nation with no rugby behind him, even if he was physically fit. Sit out the first, work his way back to fitness and then see if he can lead us through the knock-out stages.

The thing that Lewis Moody brings to the team is a bit of "Moody Madness".

It is no coincidence that England's fortunes, indeed their playing style changed with the captaincy. OK Borthwick to Moody is going from one extreme to the other.

England beat Australia by playing audacious rugby, throwing caution to the wind and just going for it. Who do we know that lives and breathes like that? By the time they lost to Ireland that intensity and "madness" was gone and Ireland far outshone them on the passion stakes....... and perhaps because they had lost their inspiration.

cheers for the correction tomathy, of course it was Twickenham , he was injured for millennium stadium.
Would love to see Robshaw given a chance, think would good have a really effective, youthful backrow with his inclusion alongside croft, wood and haskell.

On a side note, did anyone see the youngster Ben Nutley for Northampton against Gloucester on sunday? Brilliant debut, considering he's 19. Very much in the mould of moody regarding throwing his body around and lack of self concern, but hard hitting in the tackle area and breakdown. His opening tackle in the first minute or so was brilliant.

bluestonevedder wrote:
On a side note, did anyone see the youngster Ben Nutley for Northampton against Gloucester on sunday? Brilliant debut, considering he's 19. Very much in the mould of moody regarding throwing his body around and lack of self concern, but hard hitting in the tackle area and breakdown. His opening tackle in the first minute or so was brilliant.

That guy Matt Kvesic at Worcester was extremely good for the U20s in the summer as well. Any Worcester fans know if he's going to be first choice now that Sanderson has retired?

Kvesic was great in the under 20s. From what I've seen he's sharing the starting openside with Jake Abbott (another talented, young openside, but 7s specialist).
Backrow doesn't appear to be a problem for English rugby for some time to come.

except the world cup that's starting this week.

I'm thinking of 2015, besides our backrow for this world cup is one of our strongest areas I think, apart from the lack of an out and out 7.

I'm worried about Moody's inclusion in the squad, but mainly from the likelihood of a further injury putting him out of the tournament. Then we are into replacement captaincy mode; not a good place to be.

England are a better team with Moody fit and firing. You can't underestimate the impact of the captain leading by example - something Moody has always done.

Why take the mickey out of an injured player?He was included in the Squad by Martin Johnson on merit presumeably.I hope he gets himself fit and available for selection.

bluestonevedder wrote:I'm thinking of 2015, besides our backrow for this world cup is one of our strongest areas I think, apart from the lack of an out and out 7.

I think we have a lot of good, but - with the possible exception of Croft - no outstanding players in the back row. I love the competition in the area, but I think most of the players are a level too low. Easter is no Harinordiquay, Heaslip or Parisse, Moody/Wood/Haskell/Fourie/Robshaw (take your pick, I'm not picking on anyone) is no McCaw, Pocock or Brussow, so while we do have some good competition in this area we don't have outstanding performers.

I think our front five will win us more matches than our back row - both in the World Cup and the immediate future.

On a side note, did anyone see the youngster Ben Nutley for Northampton against Gloucester on sunday? Brilliant debut, considering he's 19. Very much in the mould of moody regarding throwing his body around and lack of self concern, but hard hitting in the tackle area and breakdown. His opening tackle in the first minute or so was brilliant.

Yer I thought he had an outstanding game before he went off. Looked very accomplished in all aspects of his play. Big lad as well for only a 19 year old.

Chris Robshaws main strengths..

1) Tackling - Robshaw is arguably the best tackler in the Premiership, he has consistently been in the top 10 for tackle counts for the last 5 years in the league. Not only does he make tackles, he slows opposition ball down and has the ability to turn ball over through counter rucking.

2) Ball Carrying - This season in particular Robshaw has excelled with his ball carrying. Being the second highest ball carrier in the premiership. Consistently providing a platform and go forward for his team.

3) Link-Man - Robshaw is a fantastic link-man which is a key part of an opensides job. He put in a number of passes and offloads last season, drawing players and putting team-mates into space.

At the weekend he displayed one of the three. Tackling was ace, ball carrying? eh he is average and whilst more powerful than Moody he is slower. Link man? Not bad around the fringes but in wider open spaces just shuffles the ball along the line, on a level with Moody then.

Robshaw is just Worsley Mrk2, decent all rounder, excellent tackler but not much else.