Danny Care out of the world cup !!!!!!!!!

The news is that Danny Care will not recover in time from his toe injury to make the world cup. Seems like the British guys are falling like flies. What are your thoughts ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14561369.stm Source.

England scrum-half Danny Care has been ruled out of the World Cup in New Zealand with a toe injury.
The Harlequins number nine injured his left big toe during the 19-9 defeat by Wales in Cardiff on Saturday.
Care is expected to need six weeks to recover, and England play their first World Cup match against Argentina in Dundedin on 14 September.
England manager Martin Johnson will name his final 30-man squad for the tournament on Monday.
"We are all hugely disappointed for Danny who has worked extremely hard and has been an important part of the squad throughout our Rugby World Cup preparations," said Johnson.
"He featured in both warm-up fixtures and was on course for selection so this injury is really disappointing for him personally and for us as a squad. Nobody wants to see a player ruled out at this stage through injury and we all wish Danny a speedy recovery.
"In terms of our selection options we are fortunate to have depth at nine with Ben Youngs, now back into full training, Joe Simpson and Richard Wigglesworth.
"These guys have all been part of the Rugby World Cup camp and will be considered ahead of the final 30-man squad announced on Monday."

Yikes, Youngs'll have to step up now.



Should we just pool our resources and send the Lions?

Do English fans see this as a big blow? Obviously it is for the player himself.

I ask as I've read some mixed reviews over the last couple of weeks around his performance.

Personally I thought he's played pretty well and its a bit of a blow, he can inject some pace into the English attacking game when its lacking from the midfield.

What's your problem - the Irish injuries are clearing up nicely

Bu99er. That's a real blow as he looked first choice on form. Will MJ take Simpson now? Or will he use Foden to cover 9 to give himself more options?

Care was looking good and IMO was probably the number 1 SH for England. I think Simpson has a huge amount to offer and is actually a better SH option, more dangerous and a lot more intelligent.

Assuming Youngs is fit, it's only a small to medium sized blow as DC would probably have only been bench cover. Bad luck for the lad thugh, because he has responded well to being dropped from the starting line-up and worked to address most of the issues that had previously given England problems (i.e. slow ball and dithering around the back of too many rucks and mauls).

Surely means Simpson will be in the squad now, which is good because he's surely the very definition of an impact sub.

Just seen on Sky Sports news, big blow even though I think Youngs would of started. Guess he will definitely start now.

On form but injuries happen, guess Wigglesworth or Simpson will be back-up now, both exciting players but nowhere near the class of Youngs or the form of Care.

dummy_half wrote:Surely means Simpson will be in the squad now, which is good because he's surely the very definition of an impact sub.

Has Simpson had any real gametime over these warm-ups? Will he get some? Is it between him and Wigglesworth for the bench now with youngs guarenteed his starting place?

I would definitely agree with what you said though.

Youngs will need to start against Ireland, to work on his combination with the first choice 10. Simpson needs a game, but I'd be looking at giving Youngs close to the full 80, so maybe put Wigglesworth on the bench and ask Wasps to give Simpson some game-time over the next couple of weeks?

robbo277 wrote:Youngs will need to start against Ireland, to work on his combination with the first choice 10. Simpson needs a game, but I'd be looking at giving Youngs close to the full 80, so maybe put Wigglesworth on the bench and ask Wasps to give Simpson some game-time over the next couple of weeks?

By the time of the Ireland game the 30 will have been announced. I we're taking two scrum halves, Simpson will either be out of the squad or on the bench against Ireland.

Care is out!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14561369.stm

I expect that Jonno will be going with Youngs and Wigglesworth but I would recall Joe simpson and take him as well or over wigglesworth.

screamingaddabs wrote:Bu99er. That's a real blow as he looked first choice on form. Will MJ take Simpson now? Or will he use Foden to cover 9 to give himself more options?

Foden is an out and out FB and should not be used for anything other than that IMO.

This is a big loss because although I am not a massive fan, he has been playing well lately and it leaves us massivley short in experience at 9. Care at 32 caps is our most experienced and i'm not sure whether it's right to blood Simpson in a RWC. Wigglesworth was naff at the weekend and is alos not an international 9.

Worried.

Any uncapped Saffer/NZ 9's out there looking for a game

We've still got options at 9 but Care looked the best. Time for Youngs to find his form from last year.

It will be youngs and Wigglesworth, foden offering cover.

Harsh on Care, and I suppose for England as he's had game time which Youngs hasn't.

Wigglesworth shouldn't be in your squad though - you must have better SH's

Oh and Foden mentioned in an interview, that both him and Flutey had been training as SH in case of an emergency.

I still cannot believe that MJ has opted for Wigglesworth instead of Simpson in the build-ups so far. Guess it's the "experience" thing.

I reckon taking Simpson would be a better bet as he's dangerous, and was ahead of Youngs in the pecking order before getting injured and Youngs had his chance.

Also didn't Wigglesworth only play for about 25 minutes on Saturday? Is he also carrying a knock?

I think this is a big blow. England need a 9 that can break and offer a threat around the fringes, and you don't get that from Wigglesworth. England's 9 needs to be a tempo player. Much of the good stuff last year came from Youngs getting things moving from 9.

Personally I think Simpson now needs to get some time against Ireland - possibly the last 20 minutes following Youngs. He's so fast on the break and if MJ is going to insist on the Hape/Tindall combination, frankly you're going to need to create somewhere else. Wigglesworth would be a better option if England wanted to keep things tight and controlled, but the victories against Australia last year were not produced that way.

Big onus now on Youngs being fit, and I think Paul Hodgson can certainly consider himself unlucky. I'd have taken him ahead of Wigglesworth.

flankertye wrote:Oh and Foden mentioned in an interview, that both him and Flutey had been training as SH in case of an emergency.

Seriously?

If so, that's ridiculous and a real kick in the Davina McCall's for the proper Srum Halves....

Cabbage it's all about reducing the number of backs needed so that more depth can be taken in other positions. If Flutey and Foden can be relied upon to cover SH in an emergency then only two 9s need to be taken with an extra centre position then freed up for Manu Tuilagi.

Wigglesworth shouldn't be in your squad though - you must have better SH's.

Wigglesworth has probabley got the best pass and certainly the best kicking game of all the available English scrum halves. He can whip the ball away with no crabbing and his tactical kicking is excellent. Very disappointed about his inability to dart through the gaps though. Controls his forwards a damn site better than Care did though.

Gutting for Danny Care

geoff998rugby wrote:What's your problem - the Irish injuries are clearing up nicely

Don't get too cocky Geoff. We still have 3 x warm up games AND the USA to get out of the way before we face our biggest challenge. Holding my breath on those.

England only have one more game before Arg, and it's a big one against us, where they will be looking to cause us grievous bodily harm.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Cabbage it's all about reducing the number of backs needed so that more depth can be taken in other positions. If Flutey and Foden can be relied upon to cover SH in an emergency then only two 9s need to be taken with an extra centre position then freed up for Manu Tuilagi.

Wigglesworth shouldn't be in your squad though - you must have better SH's.

Wigglesworth has probabley got the best pass and certainly the best kicking game of all the available English scrum halves. He can whip the ball away with no crabbing and his tactical kicking is excellent. Very disappointed about his inability to dart through the gaps though. Controls his forwards a damn site better than Care did though.

I must admit i didn't see any of that in the last two games, he seemed to do the same as all scrum halfs and run sideways then pass, his passes weren't particularly impressive, his kicking is good though, but i'd happily trade that for an actual running threat. Especially as Wilkinson is looking like the starting 10.

If Wigglesworth does get picked to go then he's a lucky man! I'd prefer Simpson any day.

flankertye wrote:Oh and Foden mentioned in an interview, that both him and Flutey had been training as SH in case of an emergency.

Didn't see the interview, but are you sure that it wasn't that flutey has been training at fly half? If we only take 2 of each then we need backup there as well.

Didn't see the interview, but are you sure that it wasn't that flutey has been training at fly half?

I think Flutey is capable of playing 9 and 10. Fly half is a more natural position for him as he is a distributing inside centre anyway.

And I am seriously gutted for Danny. He didn't even seem injured in the game.

Did Wigglesworth come off due to injury or just shoitness?

Potentially a big blow, thought he was playing pretty well, certainly better than Wigglesworth or whoever you had playing against us last week.

yappysnap wrote:And I am seriously gutted for Danny. He didn't even seem injured in the game.

Did Wigglesworth come off due to injury or just shoitness?

Heard it was a slight niggle, should be fine.
Was deffo flutey at SH, Just as they're probably looking at him as an emergency 10. Much the same way Ireland are looking at Wallace.

I have a vision. 1st October. Scotland versus England. MJ announces the backs:

9.Flutey 10.Hodgson 12.Hape 13.Tindall.

Please God make it happen.

If MJ doesn't take Tuilagi he'd be barking mad. Personally I'd make room for 3 scrum halves and Tuilagi. Even with Armitage's apparent return to form, I don't think you'd want to have to move Foden from 15 in a knockout game.

Although SImpson should be match fit as he'd be on the reserves list I wonde rif this will push England into biteing the bullet and just taking 2 SH's , using Foden as emergency replacement cover if theres an injury whilst 4th choice is flown out.
Its a bit late to start seriously integrating a new player now.

That would then allow them to take 3 fly halves whilst still having space for Tuilagi who is the luxury pick.

No question Care is blow, he and Youngs have been neck and nek for the starter spot. Wigglesworth will have sto step up and do better thaan on saurday, but then so will the whole team.

Engld really arent doing too badly ion the injury front though. Although theyve had a few guys resting through these games if you compare the situation to twhere theyve been for most of the time since 2003 theres a very high percentage of the first choice squad likely to be available for the trip to New Zealand. Care is the only one whos definatly going to miss it at this point, and he was only a replacement. Last world cup they even had 5th choice players turning down the trip to milk their cows.
Id be much more concerned if it had been the Capatin Moody or the only try scoring winger Ashton.

I would not mess with your 1 world class player Foden. Flutey can play 10 if need be, and you need 2 SH's - You take Foden away, you take away your main attacking threat and tie him into the traffic where he can do very little damage.

I don't think you'd want to have to move Foden from 15 in a knockout game.

I think Flutey or Foden would only cover for knocks and so on during the group stages if a scrummy got injured ahead of a semi etc I think they'd be replaced.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Didn't see the interview, but are you sure that it wasn't that flutey has been training at fly half?

I think Flutey is capable of playing 9 and 10. Fly half is a more natural position for him as he is a distributing inside centre anyway.

Flutey at 10?!

I think Flutey needs to prove that he can still play as an inside centre before even considering another position.

Why don't you give Bergamasco a call and see if he's available for a shot at the 9 position, I believe he has some experience

Flutey at 10?!

I think Flutey needs to prove that he can still play as an inside centre before even considering another position..

Won a HEC Final playing at ten.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Flutey at 10?!

I think Flutey needs to prove that he can still play as an inside centre before even considering another position..

Won a HEC Final playing at ten.

Four years ago*(and i don't recall the Wasps backs creating much in that game)...! He has shown no form since 2009 and seems a worse player since his sojourn in France.

I can just imagine a back-line of:

9. Wigglesworth
10. Flutey
12. Hape
13. Tindall

Which brings back horrible memories of:
9. Perry
10. Catt
12. Farrell
13. Noon

greenandpleasantland wrote:
Which brings back horrible memories of:
9. Perry
10. Catt
12. Farrell
13. Noon

There should be an instant ban for bring up nasty memories like that!

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:What's your problem - the Irish injuries are clearing up nicely

Don't get too cocky Geoff. We still have 3 x warm up games AND the USA to get out of the way before we face our biggest challenge. Holding my breath on those.

England only have one more game before Arg, and it's a big one against us, where they will be looking to cause us grievous bodily harm.

Jaypers Geoff - talk about tempting fate. You do realise if anyone gets injured now it will be on your head.

As for Danny Care - Unfortunate. He is a good player, and will always be remembered fondly as the person who made Martin Johnson smash up his seat in Croker.

BBC Radio News has just reported that Danny Care is out of the world Cup with a broken toe. I'd say that MJ's only option is to take Simpson from Wasps.

Discuss.

Well thats only the thrid thread ive seen on this.
Splitting the international section off really was a great idea huh

formerly known as Sam wrote:

I don't think you'd want to have to move Foden from 15 in a knockout game.

I think Flutey or Foden would only cover for knocks and so on during the group stages if a scrummy got injured ahead of a semi etc I think they'd be replaced.

Exactly. And a SH should be abel to play for 80 minutes anyway.

So what you are talking about by only taking 2 is a risk that sone will get injured very shortly before a knockout game, and that the one who is fiit needs replacing during teh 80 minutes, and that Foden isnt able to do the job anywhere near as well as a guy who wasnt able to make the squad on his own merit as a third choice.

The squads are only of a small size, its a risk to take 3 SH's and 3 FH's in the first place, that just leaves you short of cover in the back 3 and centers.

As an England fan who hasn't seen that much of Simpson, just how is his defense? I know he is lightening quick but I seem to remember a couple of games where defense let him down, to the point where it cost Wasps points. I guess Edwards will have has worked on it but good enough for international level?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Flutey at 10?!

I think Flutey needs to prove that he can still play as an inside centre before even considering another position..

Won a HEC Final playing at ten.

No he didn't.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6663245.stm

Flutey has never won the HC!

Danny Cipriani won a HEC final playing at full back would you pick him there?