Ireland Team vs England - 27th Aug 2011

First topic message reminder :

Ireland Team:
15 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) Captain
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

England team:
15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints),
14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints),
13 Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers),
12 Mike Tindall (Gloucester Rugby, captain),
11 Mark Cueto (Sale Sharks),
10 Jonny Wilkinson (Toulon),
9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens),

1 Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks),
2 Steve Thompson (London Wasps),
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers),
4 Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers),
5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints),
6 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers),
7 James Haskell (Ricoh Black Rams),
8 Nick Easter (Harlequins).

Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), 17 Matt Stevens (Saracens), 18 Simon Shaw (Unattached), 19 Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), 20 Joe Simpson (London Wasps), 21 Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), 22 Delon Armitage (London Irish).

We have to win,it's our final game going into the RWC with little momentum. I think we will win by 5.

It's a good team. I'm very happy and hope it does the business. The big questions are over the backline in attack.

Regarding O'Driscoll, has he played the other games? If so then it's probably for the best you try something different. You don't want to be completely reliant on a play in case of injury.

EDIT: I'm glad to see a strong side out for both teams. the england Wales game before the last world cup was a complete waste of time (other than getting Easter 4 tries)

EDIT2: Got the place to myself on Saturday so I can watch the game in peace without constant nagging distractions

4 Test losses in a row would be pretty bad. I don't care what noises the management make in the press - that'd hurt the squad in a big way. Especially if the defeat comes in a manner similar to the France test last week.

I worry for us in the centres. D'Arcy and Earls? Hmm... Can't see there being any understanding there at all really. They'll have a torrid time against the big English pair.

Our pack looks absolutely fantastic though. It really does.

biltongbek wrote:So is Ireland going to win?

I think so.

Those looking for links are going to be in a spot of bother, my P to P is down.

MMC wrote:
Our pack looks absolutely fantastic though. It really does.

10 man rugby??

BOD took a stinger against France. Same shoulder that was bothering him during the summer. he is training ok, just not being risked.
Good team, will have to be on top form against a very physical English team.

Thomond wrote:Those looking for links are going to be in a spot of bother, my P to P is down.

That happened last weekend, but streams could still be accessed via the MP2P forum.

Look its clear Kidney realised we need things to discuss and therefore dropped BOD.

I feel really sorry for earls, he is getting absolutely f***ed around by Ireland and munster. He is really unfortunate that he has never worked under a competent backs coach because if he was at leinster, toulouse or an australian team he would be 5times the player. This is then compounded by moving him to a different position every match.

Thomond wrote:Those looking for links are going to be in a spot of bother, my P to P is down.

I think they just moved it fom the eu to bz

I think we should have tried Bowe there earlier on he has played there numerous times for the Os. I'm sure it would please his female fans aswell as he would see more of the ball.

Cheers Val,sorted for the 3N anyway!

red_stag wrote:

MMC wrote:
Our pack looks absolutely fantastic though. It really does.

10 man rugby??

I would love to see us kicking the corners, so long as ROG does hit the corners and not Ashton and Foden. I don't think they'll offer much off structured phase play from deep and if we have territory we'll do well. If we kick loosely their back three can hurt us though.

However, unlike a 6N game, our gameplan will probably not be dictated by the opposition so much as our WC preparations.

Thats a good team. BOD out again is a bit of a worry but it is (to my mind and with a 50;50 call at hooker) our first choice pack.

Earls shifting inside is unfortunate as i think the two wingers are nailed on now, as long as neither picks up a knock.

Are you biased or do you honestly believe they will, you see I need to maske my prediction for my suprbru, and ireland has dropped me twice so far, so the fact that they have been dominating against England leads me to believe they wil, and by how many do you think?

Cari wrote:
That happened last weekend, but streams could still be accessed via the MP2P forum.

Forum's gone down now. DNS settings deleted. Doubt any links will come from there this weekend. There's plenty of sites around though, I'm sure people will be sharing them around come Sat.

Is this a must-win for the Irish then? Hope BODs alright!

I think we will kick to the corners as Ashton's positioning can be questionable at times. Biltong,I'd say by around 5 to Ireland.

Standulstermen wrote:Thats a good team. BOD out again is a bit of a worry but it is (to my mind and with a 50;50 call at hooker) our first choice pack.

Earls shifting inside is unfortunate as i think the two wingers are nailed on now, as long as neither picks up a knock.

True.

Though I think if Bowe had gotten gametime on the wing up until now we'd be seeing a backline like this:

11. Earls - his best position
14. Trimble - his best position
13. Bowe

As it is though we need Bowe to get gametime in the position that he'll be playing in.
Trimble has been our best player so far, let alone back.

Being impartial I'd say 10 pointer to Ireland.

Draigoch wrote:
Forum's gone down now. DNS settings deleted. Doubt any links will come from there this weekend. There's plenty of sites around though, I'm sure people will be sharing them around come Sat.

Perhaps they've just changed address from .eu to .bz then as Val said earlier.

I worry for our scrum if/when ross comes off
actually i worry anyway thats a massive pack england have and with the
amy winehouse of rugby to come on aswell

Wonder what England's back-line weight difference is to Ireland's?
Darcy and Earls alone are about 3 inches shorter in total and nearly 5 stone lighter!

Still, I'm looking forward to Darcy and Earls doing an Irish jig around them - I just hope their passing radars are on!!

I like the look of that Irish team.

England to win by 8-10pts

Cari wrote:

Draigoch wrote:
Forum's gone down now. DNS settings deleted. Doubt any links will come from there this weekend. There's plenty of sites around though, I'm sure people will be sharing them around come Sat.

Perhaps they've just changed address from .eu to .bz then as Val said earlier.

They have. Everything is working as normal on that domain.

FERRIS FERRIS FERRIS!
As much as I hope we win, I do want to see Ferris get a good run out.

Pheeeeeoooow! Thanks MMC

MMC wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Thats a good team. BOD out again is a bit of a worry but it is (to my mind and with a 50;50 call at hooker) our first choice pack.

Earls shifting inside is unfortunate as i think the two wingers are nailed on now, as long as neither picks up a knock.

True.

Though I think if Bowe had gotten gametime on the wing up until now we'd be seeing a backline like this:

11. Earls - his best position
14. Trimble - his best position
13. Bowe

As it is though we need Bowe to get gametime in the position that he'll be playing in.
Trimble has been our best player so far, let alone back.

To be honest as angry as I am at earls being f***ed around, he is probably a better option than bowe at 13. Bowes positioning was appalling at 13 for the opsreys this year, whereas earls' has been better. I would have thought mcfadden at 13, with earls and bowe on the wings and trimble being rested would have made more sense especially as it would be an all leinster partnership.

There will be joy to be had against that england pack though. A lot will depend on how fit our backrow is. Wally and Ferris get their first starts but if they hit the ground running we should have a significant advantage in the backrow. Front row i wouldsay is fairly even in terms of the scrum but i would give us the edge in the loose. The 2nd row battle will be intriguing especially with POC looking in great shape.

The centres is a tough one and the impact of Tuilagi might swing it to Englands advantage. Half backs are fairly well matched as are the back three. A firing Tommy Bowe would edge it to Ireland though. Should be a good game

Agree with that Valjester - Bowe is much more comfortable at 14, which is odd considering he once played at 13 regularly, but he just seems better at 14 for some reason these days.

I think Ireland will win this, but it'll be a fierce competition so there won't be a huge amount between them at full time. Both teams want it badly...should be a really good match

It'll be interesting to see how the centres do in defence. And the backline in general. It's no secret that BOD is one of the best organisers of a defensive line in the world. The question now is who's job will that be with him out? Will it be Earls or someone else. It's certainly "easier" to do from outside centre than it is from other positions.

A few things I am concerned about are the fact that there are injury/fitness question marks over Healy, Flannery, Ferris, Wallace, D'Arcy and Bowe. You could add Murphy to that list too. That's a fair chunk of the team.

I expect (read hope) to see a more direct game from Ireland on Saturday where we attempt to take it up the middle more and generate quick ruck ball before spreading it wide. That's been sorely lacking in the games so far.

I'd wish you were right guys - but it ain't. Open it up and click on something.

Anywho, they obviously have someone on their case. Hope they sort it out soon! Looks like they're linking to 'another linking site' (perhaps I shouldn't say) for the short term.

MMC wrote:No BOD??

I'm afraid I must come clean. Last saturday night at St. Stephens Green after dinner we stumbled upon the Ireland team getting off their bus. I had my photo takin with Brian. I guess i must have squeezed too hard.

clivemcl wrote:

MMC wrote:No BOD??

I'm afraid I must come clean. Last saturday night at St. Stephens Green after dinner we stumbled upon the Ireland team getting off their bus. I had my photo takin with Brian. I guess i must have squeezed too hard.

Why I outta...!

It's strange that there's no mention of it anywhere. Makes you wonder what they're hiding.

Just saw this on BBC 5 Live's Twitter page:

"GMurphy, TBowe, DWallace, ATrimble all included in Ireland side to play England. No BOD after stinger v France."

That would explain his absence. I still find it odd that the omission of the team's captain doesn't even get a mention in the team announcement.

What do people make of ROG starting ahead of Sexton? Do you think it was purely rotation or does DK still not know who his best 10 is?

I’m happy with that team. the last time Ireland’s center’s made hay was v Wales in 2010. It was BOD and Earls that day, Earls was wearing 12 but played outside if I remember right. Darcy will no he doesn’t have his buddy beside him, really hope that keeps him sharp.

Manu has a nice habit of mistiming his “shooter” run. If Earls reads it and gets in behind him I wouldn’t fancy Mike Tindall’s chances of catching him.

MON IRELAND!

MMC wrote:Just saw this on BBC 5 Live's Twitter page:

"GMurphy, TBowe, DWallace, ATrimble all included in Ireland side to play England. No BOD after stinger v France."

That would explain his absence. I still find it odd that the omission of the team's captain doesn't even get a mention in the team announcement.

What do people make of ROG starting ahead of Sexton? Do you think it was purely rotation or does DK still not know who his best 10 is?

In the last few games I think ROG has been the better player, but I do suspect its a rotation thing - By 60 minutes you'll see Sexton come on. I still think DK has penciled in Sexton at 10 v Australia, but it'll be very likely you'll see ROG come on to close the game off if needed.

There must be a question mark over D'Arcy to explain McFadden on the bench as I would have expected McF to start at 11.

Can't understand the complaints about Earls at 13, isn't he supposed to be BOD's cover? His last showing at wing might have relegated him to a utility role anyway.

Makes sense to start ROG and Reddan as I expect Reddan to be subbed first (around 55) and then ROG about 10 minutes later. That will allow Murray to ghost into the game with his familiar flyhalf and then for him to get time with Sexton later.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that England will shade this one. I just fancy their front row to win a few penalties, and I think the Irish midfield as a combination will fall short.

FES

I think you underestimate the Irish front row. True we are missing Best but we got the better of the English front row in the 6N. I wont argue with your prediction im just not sure thats where it will be decided

Standulstermen wrote:FES

I think you underestimate the Irish front row. True we are missing Best but we got the better of the English front row in the 6N. I wont argue with your prediction im just not sure thats where it will be decided

My thoughts exactly.

I think England could win this game and based on the team they've selected and Ireland's poor form they could win it by a distance (not that I think they will).

For me, England's best chance isn't to rely on penalties from set pieces but from tries scored as a result of getting in behind Ireland using their big ball carriers.

Sexton needs to have a big showing from the bench in my opionion
Especially if rog has a good game cause i have him down as the better of the two at the moment

It won't be decided in the front row, it'll be the breakdown where it's won and lost. If England persist with their strategy of just committing 1 or 2 players (usually after sending one-off runners into the defence) then we'll either be turned over or the ball will be so slow we'll be able to do nothing with it.
Looking at that selection i think we will keep going with the same strategy which is why they've picked Wilkinson to kick for touch and bang over drop goals??!!
I think Ireland will win this one as they will be more effective at the break-down and will be entirely happy to keep the England game slow as their pack can easily live with ours.
I can only hope that Ireland put some bad kicks in for Foden to return and that the Irish chase is poor.
To sum up.....me not happy

It's not just the starting front five I'm looking at though. Ireland have Court and Ryan to come on, England have Stevens and Shaw. You also didn't have to face Sheridan, Thompson and Lawes in the 6 Nations. Accordingly I don't think that game serves as a helpful comparison.

SOB and Sexton, both instrumental to Ireland in that 6 Nations performance, also aren't playing.

I'm not suggesting any sort of telling margin, I just think England will sneak it.

Not that you ever want someone to have an injury, but if Nick easter could just pick up a slight minor strain (back ache from the strain his belly puts on it?!?!?!) It would be great to see a pacey dynamic back row of Haskell, Croft and Wood. Easter really hamstrings Englands attempts to play a fast paced 15 man game.

greenandpleasantland wrote:It won't be decided in the front row, it'll be the breakdown where it's won and lost. If England persist with their strategy of just committing 1 or 2 players (usually after sending one-off runners into the defence) then we'll either be turned over or the ball will be so slow we'll be able to do nothing with it.
Looking at that selection i think we will keep going with the same strategy which is why they've picked Wilkinson to kick for touch and bang over drop goals??!!
I think Ireland will win this one as they will be more effective at the break-down and will be entirely happy to keep the England game slow as their pack can easily live with ours.
I can only hope that Ireland put some bad kicks in for Foden to return and that the Irish chase is poor.
To sum up.....me not happy

So you'd have preferred Flood over Wilkinson and what else?
With the pack selected there's nothing wrong with playing 10 man rugby, at least until they've worn Ireland down at bit.

Obviously the scrum will be very solid but with Owens refereeing you can't be guaranteed to get penalties from it (unless he gets injured and Poite is promoted from the sideline). The lineout will be key though and Johnson has selected Croft and Lawes to wreak havoc on Ireland's lineout.

I think it looks like a very strong England team. You could argue for the inclusion of Wood ahead of Haskell at 7 to help out at the breakdown but the bench is there to be used so I don't think that's much of an issue really.

Without BoD, Kearney, and Sexton, your back line looks less than threatening!
Mind you Tommy Bowe seems to love playing against England, can't stop bloody scoring!

Draigoch wrote:

Cari wrote:
That happened last weekend, but streams could still be accessed via the MP2P forum.

Forum's gone down now. DNS settings deleted. Doubt any links will come from there this weekend. There's plenty of sites around though, I'm sure people will be sharing them around come Sat.

Is this a must-win for the Irish then? Hope BODs alright!

Mypremium.tv is sometimes good

Injured players aside - SOB, Kearney and BOD looks like Kidneys first XV to me.

Having said that the call at 2, 10 and 12 is a close one and a poor performance by any of them would result in the alternative going back infront.

This talk of Bowe playing regularly at 13 is a bit of a myth. A handful of games no more

Didn't see BOD not being involved coming I gotta say.

The midfield looks ropey in my opinion hope Darcy ups his performance a lot and Earls can get passes to hands