England vs India 4th ODI Debate

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 10:10 am

First topic message reminder :

So the 4th ODI is about to be underway.
1 change for England, Steven Finn comes in for Jade Dernbach. India going in with the same xi that lost a close match last time around.
Finn for Dernbach, I think is a good move, this being Finn's home ground, he should know the conditions pretty well. And he's a real wicket taker, although he may go for a few. Dernbach has been bowling too many slower ones these days, and the Indians seem to have decoded him to some extend.

India going in with PK, Munaf and RP Singh. Can't understand the logic of it. When will Varun Aaron get a game?
England winning the toss and bowling, on a track that should offer some early help to the pacers.
Your thoughts??

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:53 pm

Liam_Main wrote:Won't get 280 Trebs.

sure?

i figured they'd make monkeys off us in the PP.. sailing away.

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:54 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:even Swann getting tonked, was way too full in that over I'm afraid. Remarkable how England can just lose their heads like this, India going to end up with at least 30 runs more than they should have got...

funny that we're 2-0 up really. we're bloody awful at ODI's laughing

The Indian fans are dancing now.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:57 pm

Dhoni is playing some of those shots that he had put away in the locker for long!. Exciting stuf!. Good over so far fromm Jimmy A.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:58 pm

England's fielding has been ragged today, bit of tiredness creeping in for some of the players maybe?

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:58 pm

you must be happy msp, your boys have made england suffer today.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:59 pm

Broad going to bowl, bet he'd rather he wasn't...

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:59 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:England's fielding has been ragged today, bit of tiredness creeping in for some of the players maybe?

and who thought a tour to india in just one month was a good idea? that'll be a whitewash if they're worn out.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 1:59 pm

Good hitting from Raina, and some poor fielding ruined that over. Broad with the last over.

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:00 pm

so predictions then.

India to win by... 60.

finally the horrible tactic of letting the other side set the score blows up in Cook and Flowers face. they better learn and learn fast.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:01 pm

Broad's hurt, shouldn't have been bowling here. Remarkable how after 40 overs of hard work England can throw it away so badly in an hour or so. Broad off now, and that's a real blow if he can't bat either...

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:01 pm

Broad going off injured, bad news. Finn to finish off the over.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:03 pm

fine catch from Stokes out on the cover boundary, but then he's fresher than the rest isn't he?

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:03 pm

finally goes slogging away but he has won it for his team.

england have been a poor side today.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:03 pm

Broad has injured himself. Unfortunate for England, but for a change, the boot is on the other foot this time round, from an Indian perspective. Finn's to finish the over.

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:04 pm

Well played Raina, Finn gets a well deserved wicket.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:04 pm

England could actually still chase this you know, but they'll need their batsmen to really step up to the plate. India shouldn't have got more than 250 really, been a terrible last ten for England...

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:04 pm

boot on the other foot?

i guess india need to take their chace, they've been hammered all summer and had to go home with something, 2-1 in this series, better than another whitewash.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:05 pm

Raina gone with 2 balls to go, Trebs has got it right on the total!.

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:05 pm

Dhoni finishes off the innings with the helicopter shot. India shouldn't have got anywhere near 180, poor effort from England.

by liverbnz Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:06 pm

Liam_Main wrote:Won't get 280 Trebs.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:06 pm

good finish from Finn, have England found themselves another death bowler? Great innings from Dhoni and Raina, 280 is a good score on this pitch, but not insurmountable if England bat well...

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:07 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Broad's hurt, shouldn't have been bowling here. Remarkable how after 40 overs of hard work England can throw it away so badly in an hour or so. Broad off now, and that's a real blow if he can't bat either...

yup but we keep doing it, just unable to consistently apply pressure in this form and always throw it away horribly in the PP's (we'll lose 5 wickets in ours probably).

how can Vaugh dream we can ever win a world cup in this form?

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:08 pm

I think England need to stop bowling Jimmy at the death, he's not a good death bowler, far better to be bowling 6-7 at the start and then just finishing off in the middle IMO. Broad, Bresnan, Dernbach and now Finn should all bowl at the death ahead of him.

Also, Swann needs to come on earlier next time, it's a waste him not being able to bowl out...

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:08 pm

liverbnz wrote:
Liam_Main wrote:Won't get 280 Trebs.

Made me look a right tool

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:09 pm

I jus had a fear it looked a road and that India got set they would tear us a new one and show us just how good they are Liam.

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:09 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think England need to stop bowling Jimmy at the death, he's not a good death bowler, far better to be bowling 6-7 at the start and then just finishing off in the middle IMO. Broad, Bresnan, Dernbach and now Finn should all bowl at the death ahead of him.

Also, Swann needs to come on earlier next time, it's a waste him not being able to bowl out...

Agree, Swann was left to many overs at the end.

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:10 pm

i think england will now chase this down in 48 overs with only three wickets falling.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:10 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:you must be happy msp, your boys have made england look like idiots today.

Happy so far Trebs, but as you know, I'd rather not think about our bowling beyond PK, Ashwin, and support from Jadeja!.
Will RP and Munaf bowl with some sense of purpose? Will PK rediscover his form? Will the Indian fielding give half-decent support to a struggling bowling unit?
Will England miss Pietersen and Morgan?

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:11 pm

trebellbobaggins wrote:I jus had a fear it looked a road and that India got set they would tear us a new one and show us just how good they are Liam.

To be fair in the 40th over you would of thought India would get nowhere near 280. Great fightback from Dhoni and Raina

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:11 pm

Anyways, 280 is far from a huge score on what looks a pretty good batting pitch, so England just need to apply themselves, and make sure the RRR doesn't get too high. Great chance for Bell, Bopara and Stokes to show their worth.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:13 pm

msp83 wrote:
trebellbobaggins wrote:you must be happy msp, your boys have made england look like idiots today.
Happy so far Trebs, but as you know, I'd rather not think about our bowling beyond PK, Ashwin, and support from Jadeja!.
Will RP and Munaf bowl with some sense of purpose? Will PK rediscover his form? Will the Indian fielding give half-decent support to a struggling bowling unit?
Will England miss Pietersen and Morgan?

No. Maybe. Yes (they were pretty good in that last game). Yes.

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:15 pm

yep agree with that.

by msp83 Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:16 pm

I am not really hoping much as yet, Having seen Zaheer making the England batters dance to his tune in the same ground, having watched England crashing to 124-8 at TB........

by alfie Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:17 pm

Contrary to most people , I'm inclined to praise the two Indian batsmen for some exceptional power hitting rather than declare England's bowlers "rubbish". It was not as if they sent down a lot of wides or long-hops ... Raina and Dhoni were smashing some perfectly normal length balls into the stands , and when they tried variations they mostly got thumped too...
Could have bowled - and fielded - better at the end , but largely a case of two fine hitters well set on a good pitch and everything coming off...well done India.

280 is a little over par I think , though not much. I favour India from here largely because I am not sure England's middle order of Bell/Stokes/Bopara has the ODI skills to manage the chase.

But I certainly won't rule out an England win , especially if they get off to a good start so the required run rate doesn't ever get too high. I don't think there is much on offer for any of the bowlers so it may be an interesting chase.
Not for me I'm afraid , I have to work in the morning...enjoy Smile

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:19 pm

you must be desperate for a win msp, it's been a long painful summer.

win had to come and it'll be the only one in Eng this year (i am certain friday will rain off). Enjoy it.

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:19 pm

and yes alfie they were amazing on a good track. have a good night Alfie.

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:24 pm

Nowhere near done yet Trebs. Not making anymore predictions though Laugh

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:29 pm

Tuffers reckons 230 is par, I reckon par is a lot higher than that...

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Tuffers reckons 230 is par, I reckon par is a lot higher than that...

for the team Tuffers played in with him batting? 30 was about par.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

misfield off the first ball

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

Ball swinging, and Dhoni only has one slip, but the commies don't even mention it...

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:36 pm

balling swinging now?

i've turned off. i'll only get all negative watching it.

how come they are finding movement we did not Chelsea?

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:39 pm

Kumar got a bit of movement, but so did Anderson with the new ball. It won't last. RP Singh pretty much gun-barrel straight in that over though. What happened to that bowler we saw back in 07?

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:41 pm

News in that Broad will be fit to bat. Cook square cuts England's first boundary. Must be tough to bowl to Cookie, if you bowl too straight he picks you off through the leg side, but if you're fractionally wide he lashes it through point...

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:42 pm

Reasonable start from the openers.

by Guest Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:46 pm

no idea why there is a leg slip in.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:47 pm

you need two catchers CF, and Dhoni obviously wants a man out at mid wicket. Kieswetter goes, huge wicket for India. Pretty poor shot that

by trebellbobaggins Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:47 pm

oops , i turned on and i got ck out. my apologies.
it's off.. India have had a horrible tour and the celebrations are going to be a little overboard i fear so that's enough of that. you wouldn't think the best they could do is draw really.

by Liam_Main Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:48 pm

Guys we're discussing the match in the chat if you would like to join us.

by Mad for Chelsea Sun 11 Sep 2011, 2:49 pm

this is what I worry about, Trott and Cook in with the PP, can they keep the RR up?

England have been a bit unlucky today, first real mishit goes straight to a fielder whereas India got away with quite a few of them early on.

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