Is your team doing as well as you expected..?

Hopefully you have been nicely surprised by how well your team are playing after underestimating their chances prior to the RWC.

Though I guess there others of us who are pretty down about a lack of performance and some under achievement we didnt foresee.

Then again maybe its all going as you thought it would.

How do you feel about your team half way through the pool stages.

No
I thought we were poor against Tonga and only okay against Japan B.
The team looks unsettled with the coaches not sure who is the top team.
Lots of minor injuries to important players and some old hands under performing.
Can't see us making the final.

Well didn't start very well at all. We allowed Wales to dominate breadowns by not adapting to the referee. If we weren't able to adapt with the ”daylight” law at the breakdown we should have put one or two more bodies into the breakdown area and counter rucked more. Morne Steyn in particular and Fourie du Preez lost the territorial kicking game against Priestland and go which basically just boils down to the fact that our execution in both these areas failed on the day and just added pressure.

What was decent though was our defence and execution on attack.

The game against Fiji saw an improvement in all areas, so hopefully this momentum will continue, and we improve with every game

nganboy wrote:No
I thought we were poor against Tonga and only okay against Japan B.
The team looks unsettled with the coaches not sure who is the top team.
Lots of minor injuries to important players and some old hands under performing.
Can't see us making the final.

Sounds like the sounds around french rugby too. "Le Crunch Noir" may have a certain je ne ce quoi to it...!

biltongbek wrote:Well didn't start very well at all. We allowed Wales to dominate breadowns by not adapting to the referee. If we weren't able to adapt with the ”daylight” law at the breakdown we should have put one or two more bodies into the breakdown area and counter rucked more. Morne Steyn in particular and Fourie du Preez lost the territorial kicking game against Priestland and go which basically just boils down to the fact that our execution in both these areas failed on the day and just added pressure.

What was decent though was our defence and execution on attack.

The game against Fiji saw an improvement in all areas, so hopefully this momentum will continue, and we improve with every game

Just picking the bones here Billtong but did SA not look better against Fiji because Fiji are ranked 14th in the world and Wales are 7 places higher...?

Wales had a bit of positive momentum from the results leading into that match, good form, bar having to field a weakened side due to injuries etc, Fiji in a very mixed state after an average PI Nations Cup and a massive loss to the ABs but a good win over Namibia.

Personally I am happy with Wales, not ecstatic.

Over the last five or six games and the introduction of young players like Priestland and Faletau, the leadership of Warburton etc a lot of the problems with the Welsh team seem to have been ironed out a bit.

Great performances in all the last five warm up and World Cup games. Patience and determination are the key.

Hopefully Wales can progress to the quarters from the position they are in. But to go further they have to learn from each lesson and improve every game.

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Well didn't start very well at all. We allowed Wales to dominate breadowns by not adapting to the referee. If we weren't able to adapt with the ”daylight” law at the breakdown we should have put one or two more bodies into the breakdown area and counter rucked more. Morne Steyn in particular and Fourie du Preez lost the territorial kicking game against Priestland and go which basically just boils down to the fact that our execution in both these areas failed on the day and just added pressure.

What was decent though was our defence and execution on attack.

The game against Fiji saw an improvement in all areas, so hopefully this momentum will continue, and we improve with every game

Just picking the bones here Billtong but did SA not look better against Fiji because Fiji are ranked 14th in the world and Wales are 7 places higher...?

Wales had a bit of positive momentum from the results leading into that match, good form, bar having to field a weakened side due to injuries etc, Fiji in a very mixed state after an average PI Nations Cup and a massive loss to the ABs but a good win over Namibia.

Maesteg my friend, yes and no.

It took us 23 minutes to start dominating Fiji, during those first 23 minutes their hits and contest at the breakdowns were fierce. Against Wales we either weren't allowed to contest the rucks or we didn't wnat to contest the rucks, whichever way you want to look at it.

I am talking from the perspective here of what we did wrong and improved upon.

during the Wales game we made 2 clean breaks, 6 defenders beaten and 6 offloads, against fiji we made 4 clean breask, beat 25 defenders and made 17 offloads.

against wales we ran 240 meters against fiji we ran 665 metres. Schalk burger alone made 18 passes in the match and 2 offloads. so as much as people want to beleive Fiji is poor and Wales is in great form, somwhere in the middle of all that lies the reality.

That's why i look at what the individuals did. Not the result.

After the match against Wales the Springbok coaching staff said they were flummoxed about the daylight law, and how it was interpreted by the referee. I watched that game three times, and it was clear why they were confused. Warburton et all, never showed any daylight in the breakdowns as tacklers or tackle assists. That was something the Boks had to work on.

Not the reason why australia lost, but on a show called Masterplan here in SA, the exact same situation was pointed out. The NH referees allow tacklers and tackle assist players to hold onto the ball and not release.

That is a major concern for the Tri Nation teams, and if they want to compete at the breakdowns they will have to adapt to the referee in the day.

biltongbek wrote:That is a major concern for the Tri Nation teams, and if they want to compete at the breakdowns they will have to adapt to the referee in the day.

It's a curse of the game that there is so much reinvention and interpretation of refereeing. But top international players know how to adapt to referees quickly in a match. Having just finished an international competition just before the RWC you would think SA would be really experienced at curent refereeing interpretations?

Wales, like all sides, have been on the receiving end of a ref who the opposition figure out many times before.

Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

Which is wierd because England heard the directive, ignored it and were suprissed in their first two matches to find out it was being enforced.

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

Bill

We were all in the same boat mate.

Having said there would be no law changes until after the RWC about two years ago, Paddy O'Brien has constantly re-interpreted directives on an almost competition by competition basis.


I am amazed at the inconsistencies with the maul, which also had strong directives from O'Brien preventing long slow trundling rolling mauls, you hear referees asking a team to use the ball if it is at the back of the maul and can't be contested. A very good rule in my opinion.

Anyhow mate, have a read of this article in the Toryagraph it's along your lines of thought. Concise too so won't take long.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8766452/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-leaden-England-must-learn-to-play-the-referee-as-game-speeds-up.html

Certainly seemed like SA had the right idea vs Fiji with regards the breakdown. But Samoa are good at it and very powerful. I don't expect SA to walk away from that game as lightly as they did the Fiji one.

Who were england's referees, do you by any chance remember?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

Which is wierd because England heard the directive, ignored it and were suprissed in their first two matches to find out it was being enforced.

You should read this too then...!

It is about England and SA's interpretation of the rules vs their oppositions.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

Which is wierd because England heard the directive, ignored it and were suprissed in their first two matches to find out it was being enforced.

You should read this too then...!

It is about England and SA's interpretation of the rules vs their oppositions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8766452/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-leaden-England-must-learn-to-play-the-referee-as-game-speeds-up.html

maestegmafia wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Maesteg, the truth is we were told back here in SA that Paddy O'Brian has given a directive to the Referees to be very strick at the ruck area, now we prepared ourselves in this manner, going into your first match and finding out the opposite is in fact being allowed can set a team back a bit.

Yes I agree we should have reacted sooner in the match, and done the same thing, but it is hard to change your system where you have been metronomic in your approach of not giving away penalties at the breakdown by holding on.

Bill

We were all in the same boat mate.

Having said there would be no law changes until after the RWC about two years ago, Paddy O'Brien has constantly re-interpreted directives on an almost competition by competition basis.


I am amazed at the inconsistencies with the maul, which also had strong directives from O'Brien preventing long slow trundling rolling mauls, you hear referees asking a team to use the ball if it is at the back of the maul and can't be contested. A very good rule in my opinion.

Anyhow mate, have a read of this article in the Toryagraph it's along your lines of thought. Concise too so won't take long.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8766452/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-leaden-England-must-learn-to-play-the-referee-as-game-speeds-up.html

Certainly seemed like SA had the right idea vs Fiji with regards the breakdown. But Samoa are good at it and very powerful. I don't expect SA to walk away from that game as lightly as they did the Fiji one.

All the more reason for teams to be able to adjust on match day.

Yes Wales are, we expected them to lose to South Africa and hoped they'd go down fighting which they did, and we did beat our bogey team Samoa.
So the bottom line is Welsh fans have every reason to be happy.

Yes England are doing as well as expected. Two wins from two games with some bumps along the way.

It hasn't been pretty but they have done what they have needed to.

If it's too easy in the pool stages you aren't battle hardened enough for the latter stages.

Yes.

England have been inconsistant and struggled but come away with a couple of wins.

I expect to see more of the same against Romania, but still running up a decent score, & Scotland, close but sneaking through