The Spirit of the game

First topic message reminder :

Following from something D4S mentioned in the alignment thread. Thought i'd open this up to all to discuss on a new thread instead of it getting lost in another one.

What do you deem to be "within the spirit of the game"?

Why is it so important to some, surely as long as your playing within the rules thats enough isn't it?

(Note i'm not saying I agree with the spirit of the game nor am I saying I disagree, in fact i'm going to have a think what it means to me whilst this is discussed)

You have to ask how sad a person can be to take a pairs matchplay so seriously.

Peter Hanson on 17 yesterday in Portugal. For anyone who didn't see it, he hit into water at the side of the green. Nobody could say for sure where the ball last crossed the hazard (red stakes), but seemed very likely it was by the green 20 yards from the flag. Referee (J Parramor) said decision was with Hanson - quite reasonable to assume green side was ok. Hanson took drop 95 yards back where ball first, and with certainty crossed the hazard, because any other decision would feel like cheating because he wasn't 100% sure.
He wasn't going to win, but was scrambling for a good finish for owgr points. Took a decision which was most fair for the rest of the field - just like a footballer would!!!!!

It was Hanson who penalized himself a year or so ago for a double-hit. Happily he went on to win, in a play-off I think.

super_realist wrote:You have to ask how sad a person can be to take a pairs matchplay so seriously.

Strange attitude in my opinion

As far as I'm concerned, matchplay is the best form of golf (player against player rather than player against course which to me is a much more woolly concept)

Pairs or singles matchplay are both right up there in my opinion. Are you putting down matchplay or are you putting down people being too serious in general?

penalty for waving the rules of golf in a matchplay event is disqualification for both teams or players......as far as i know ?

harsh as it may sound and we all know when someone has made a genuine mistake and was not trying to gain an advantage....but the rules are there to be followed....so i wouldnt mistake taking it too seriously with playing by the rules......although it is how someone conducts themself when applying rules in situations that has an affect on people.

I thought the "waiving the rules" penalty only applied to strokeplay - I may be wrong though

davie
i just checked
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=1&subRuleNum=3

Thanks Lieger. Obviously I was wrong

I guess I was thinking of the rule where (in matchplay) if a player plays from the wrong teeing area (yellow rather than white for example) in matchplay there is no automatic penalty but the other person or team can ask for the player to retake the shot without penalty

While I concede that you are right though, looking at some of the decisions relating to Rule 1-3 (in matchplay) - I can't help but think some of them are bad decisions

i agree davie

the 15 club rule cropped up in a match i was playing and while i didnt want to go from all sq to 2 up for no reason on the 6th tee i had no option. i did however concede a few puts in the way in which resulted in the game being halved....it was a freindly game to kick the season off so it seemed the right thing to do.

Davie wrote:

super_realist wrote:You have to ask how sad a person can be to take a pairs matchplay so seriously.

Strange attitude in my opinion

As far as I'm concerned, matchplay is the best form of golf (player against player rather than player against course which to me is a much more woolly concept)

Pairs or singles matchplay are both right up there in my opinion. Are you putting down matchplay or are you putting down people being too serious in general?

Matchplay is my favourite format, but hearing of those two taking it so seriously is the sad element of it, especially as it was handicap matchplay so sounds like they were being a bit unreasonable, yes rules are rules, but not convulsive to a harmonious atmosphere.

super

you cant waive the rules of golf. if its a freindly bounce game then fine but if its the club doubles or single competition then the rules of golf are final. its usually the way some sanctimonious Muppet impliments the rules that creates the atmosphere.

That's exactly what I mean lieger. Rules nazis are the bane of the game. People certainly take club matchplay comps too seriously though. Tinpot competitions usually coveted by little hitlers

kwinigolfer wrote:It was Hanson who penalized himself a year or so ago for a double-hit. Happily he went on to win, in a play-off I think.

That's not right kwini. Hanson played on for a couple of holes before being told that a super slow-mo replay identified a double hit. Up till then he was oblivious to it.

4putt,
Do you know, I was watching the coverage and completely forgot that. Alzheimer's kicking in sooner than I had expected.
Thanks,

super_realist wrote:Matchplay is my favourite format, but hearing of those two taking it so seriously is the sad element of it, especially as it was handicap matchplay so sounds like they were being a bit unreasonable, yes rules are rules, but not convulsive to a harmonious atmosphere.

The above disappoints and saddens me to read.

Why?
I'm not talking about breaking rules, but taking them so literally is where the problem lies.

For instance, playing when ready and out of turn would be contrary to popular convention, but people can be sticklers for it if they can make you play again. That's not really in the spirit of the game in my opinion.

I don't intentionally break rules but I don't see anything wrong with ready golf, for instance I've let someone tee off first if, they can't reach the group in front or if they just happen to be ready to play. I don't see the problem in that.

super_realist wrote:Why?
I'm not talking about breaking rules, but taking them so literally is where the problem lies.

For instance, playing when ready and out of turn would be contrary to popular convention, but people can be sticklers for it if they can make you play again. That's not really in the spirit of the game in my opinion.

I don't intentionally break rules but I don't see anything wrong with ready golf, for instance I've let someone tee off first if, they can't reach the group in front or if they just happen to be ready to play. I don't see the problem in that.

I'm not sure what the difference is between breaking the rules and not taking them so literally is. The rules are meant to be taken literally. It's black or white, within the rules or without.

In matchplay, someone playing out of turn can have a big negative effect on the opponent if they stiff their shot. Why should they be allowed that advantage?

I know what you mean, I just think golf is too stuffy. I'm not talking about breaking rules but being a rules pedant if someone is an inch or so ahead of you and asking them to play again is a bit sad

I've been reading this with interest. There seems to be a ground swell of opinion here that:

1. The rules are the rules
2. The spirit of the game is about enforcing them rigidly and then some - to the point of being incredibly harsh on yourself or others, so that you "can live with yourself"

Undoubtedly it depends on context (professional competitions for mega bucks versus matchplay with friends), but for me the spirit of the game is adhering to the rules, but with a bit of common sense and decency applied. For example, if I saw someone accidently breach a "minor rule" (like unwittingly knocking a small leaf off on a practice swing) but they didn't gain an advantage from it, I probably wouldn't call them on it. If they outright cheated, I'd kick seven shades of sh1t out of them.. metaphorically speaking...but in a pleasant way. Manners maketh the man.

super_realist wrote:I know what you mean, I just think golf is too stuffy. I'm not talking about breaking rules but being a rules pedant if someone is an inch or so ahead of you and asking them to play again is a bit sad

But the examples that have been mentioned on here are not as trivial as being an inch ahead of their opponent.

Nevertheless they are still pretty trivial and the "evil perpetrators" were harldy gaining much of an advantage, and in a handicap matchplay too. Not something which should be taken so seriously in my opinion.

I agree with s_r on at least one point there. When looking through some of the decisions, there was one where it described "player A wins the 4th hole - on arriving at the 5th tee, player A discovers he has left a head cover by the 4th green and goes back to retrieve it. In an attempt to save time he offers player B the chance to tee off first even though player A has the honour."

By agreeing to do this they are agreeing to waive a rule on order of play and therefore are both subject to disqualification (though to be fair the decision does mention that this could be overrules by the competitions committee)

I'm sure most right-minded people would agree this is rather extreme

These guys who waive rules like that by mutual agreement would be better off doing that on the PGA Tour, in Stroke Play events anyway.
It happens all the time, and some tournaments would never be completed otherwise.

I think this thread has now broken the spirit of the game. It broke my spirit reading so many mentions of the rules in a thread about something that should be a lot more magical.

Mac, the only magical thing about the game of golf is your fictitious utopian ideal of what it should be.

Started watching the Bermuda Holiday game last night on Sky between Chubbies boys and keegan. Keegan was putting like a demon with his belly putter, and much talk followed. The yank pundits were forever asking the question, 'should the belly putter be banned'. Spirit of the game was mentioned constantly and the pundits were asking the players, who were all non commital. Also seems like Phil has been using one for a couple of weeks.

So it seems (If we believe the pundits) that the belly putter is causing a world-wide discussion, about spirit of the game. Mark Roe said something that I agree with for a change, 'think its too late as the horse has bolted'.